Core values & personality traits in marriage

[Storyrider]

On another thread, a poster made this very sharp observation:

 

In marriage, you should NEVER sacrifice a "core value" in the name of compromise. If you find yourself HAVING to do so, that means that the two of you are likely mismatched in the first place both psychologically and philosophically. Values are not meant to be compromised. They should have been found to be MOSTLY (perhaps not totally) complimentary during the courtship and engagement process....yet one more reason to not rush into marriage, you get time to sort these things out.

 

 

I find this really intriguing and thought it would be interesting to discuss.

 

People often get married for the first time in their twenties. Some of our values aren't fully formed at that time, or will change. Also, when we're young, we tend to be idealistic, perhaps thinking that differences don't matter when, in fact, they really do.

 

I was wondering also about core personality traits--things we hope to change about ourselves or our partners that are so ingrained it is unrealistic to expect they will change much.

 

Sometimes there is a trait or value we feel we could or should change, and we pick a partner who wants that change b/c they will encourage us in that direction. The whole "I like who I am when I'm with you" concept. But deep down we are that way b/c we don't want to change.

 

How many marital problems and divorces can be traced to the above two differences? How can you know whether a value is a core value or something you cling to out of fear or comfort, or just a habit?

Edited January 19, 2008 by Storyrider

[sb129]

Thanks for starting this thread Story. As you know, I am getting married in just under a years time, and WB and I have been talking quite a bit about what we expect from marriage.

 

I think we have the same core values, but I was wondering if you could help me out with a list of examples, because maybe we have missed something that we need to talk about?

 

Sorry if this is a threadjack, I can start another one if you want. I want to follow this though, i think it will be really informative.

Edited January 19, 2008 by sb129

[Storyrider]

Thanks for starting this thread Story. As you know, I am getting married in just under a years time, and WB and I have been talking quite a bit about what we expect from marriage.

 

I think we have the same core values, but I was wondering if you could help me out with a list of examples, because maybe we have missed something that we need to talk about?

 

Sorry if this is a threadjack, I can start another one if you want. I want to follow this though, i think it will be really informative.

 

How is it a jack, SB? It seems perfectly on-topic to me. I think we can't tell other people what constitutes a core value, but here are some of the questions to ask oneself. OK, from the sublime to the ridiculous:

 

1. What does marriage mean to you? What do you expect from your marriage partner and from marriage in general? What was your parents' marriage like?

 

1.5 What does sex mean? It is just about having fun, is it a connecting of souls or something in between? What are your sexual values? What turns you on?

 

2. Religious or non-religious beliefs and practice, who is God and how important is religion in your daily life? How do you practice? How do you want to raise your kids? Do you pray? What restrictions does religion put on your behavior and choices?

 

3. Children, do you want them, how will you raise them? How would you discipline them? Who will be the primary care giver? How much will you help? What was your childhood like?

 

4. Money, how will you make it and spend it and share it and save it? What are your monetary goals?

 

5. Do you like to travel or stay home watch movies, play video games, cook in or eat out, do you read fiction, nonfiction, nothing? Do you like music? What are your tastes in the above?

 

6. Are you sarcastic or straight forward? Are you funny? Can you laugh at yourself? What is more important, being polite or being funny? Are you prudish or is an off-color joke OK?

 

7. Do you like to listen or talk or both? Are you an interesting talker and a good listener?

 

8. Are you moody or steady? How do you behave when you're feeling down? Will you be there for me if I need you? What types of problems can you handle and how would you handle them?

 

9. How do you like to be shown love and how do you show love?

 

This is by no means exhaustive. Hope people will add to it or comment.

Edited January 19, 2008 by Storyrider

[sb129]

Great list. I think we have covered everything on that list, plus a few other things that are probably more couple- specific to us.

 

I am pleased to say that at the moment, we are on the same page for everything, except maybe the money one, but its an issue we are actively working on at the moment, and have talked about alot recently.

 

I know its different to speculate about things before you get married than to have to actually deal with them after the event, but I think its a good thing to discuss them now rather than have nasty surprises later.

 

Neither my BF nor I are religious, but a good friend of ours had advice from their priest to discuss the issues you mentioned above before they got married, and she said it really helped them. They are still happily married 7 years later, and are expecting their first child soon.

 

Thanks SR.

[Trialbyfire]

Here's a few more:

• What is your communication style, in times of stress or conflict?
  
• Are you the type of person who forgives easily or hangs on tightly to resentments?
  
• How reliable and consistent, are you?
  
• Are you a critical and/or negative person? Glass half-empty or half-full?

[Storyrider]

I like those TBF. I think it is important to ask yourself the less obvious questions, and maybe even the same one from different angles?

 

Also, it is important to be truly honest. Are you compromising in words when you won't in action? For example, you might agree that a clean house is important, but will you actually clean it on a regular basis?

 

H and I had a lot of premarital counselling. We did Catholic and Jewish premarital programs! The Catholic one involved a questionaire that asked lots and lots of questions. In some cases, I don't think it got at the truth, but I'm not sure why. I would love to look at the questions again and see how I would answer them now.

 

When the momentum of an impending wedding is pushing/pulling you, I'm not sure it's the most rational or truthful time to answer these questions. I don't know how to solve that problem, though.

 

Sometimes it seem like just b/c something is important to you doesn't mean it is obvious or you have self-knowledge about it? I don't know how that could be, but it is true.

[sb129]

Here's a few more:

• What is your communication style, in times of stress or conflict?
  
• Are you the type of person who forgives easily or hangs on tightly to resentments?
  
• How reliable and consistent, are you?
  
• Are you a critical and/or negative person? Glass half-empty or half-full?

 

Another good list.

 

We have also discussed infidelity. Some people may grimace at this, but we have agreed that there is no room for infidelity- WB has a zero tolerance policy, and that infidelity will mean the end of the relationship with no compromise.

 

I like that.

[sb129]

 

When the momentum of an impending wedding is pushing/pulling you, I'm not sure it's the most rational or truthful time to answer these questions. I don't know how to solve that problem, though.

.

 

I wondered this too. I am not having these conversations to identify something to confirm any doubts I may be having about getting married though.

 

I have no doubts at the moment, and am really excited. I love our life right now, and hope it continues. We recently had to deal with a large stressor that thankfully had a positive resolution, and the way that we dealt with it gave me confidence that we can deal with things well as a team.

(Even though I am not proud to admit I was the one who had to learn a few lessons through it).

 

I am trying to keep my feet on the ground and thinking about what it will mean to be married to WB , rather than focusing on the wedding as being the pinnacle of our R. WB is a realist too, and we had these kind of conversations before we got engaged. All part of the getting to know you phase I guess.

 

Living together has also flagged up a few things that we have had to talk about, mundane stuff like division of housework labour etc, but even that is something that can cause conflict.

 

So many people get propelled by the "big day" excitement of the wedding, and focus on that rather than "the marriage" and I really don't want to do that.

[DazedandConfused66]

My wife and I got married young, at 21. There were some extenuating circumstances at the time...we were engaged at 20, but had planned on waiting 3 years to get married. Then we found ourselves in the position of needing to take custody of her much younger brother (long story) who was 7 at the time. Being married made this possible...otherwise, he most likely would have went into foster care.

 

Nonetheless, this taught us early in our relationship what values we shared. Concern for the welfare of others was a core value then, and we've since discovered many others that were harmoniously aligned.

 

In our fifth year of marriage, we went to a marriage-builders type of weekend retreat. Our relationship was fine back then, but we had some friends who recommended it highly and I'm glad we went. One thing we did as a result of that session was learn about love languages and discovered some big differences that were pretty obvious in hindsight, but not at the time. We also wrote our first "relationship contract" at that time. It's been since amended several times, but the first item on that list is that we take the time to review it together over a glass of wine at least once every month. We then actively discuss things that have happened in the last month that affirms where we've walked the talk we outlined there, or those times when we haven't done so well. This has been an outstanding tool for our communication and, more importantly, it's provided a living document to monitor how our core values have changed over the years.

 

The list above in the thread is an excellent starting point. But values can change over time. Sometimes, life experiences make you rearrange certain values. The important thing is that they don't change unilaterally and without any communication to your spouse. Otherwise, you end up with a mismatched set of expectations of behavior. Your spouse, unknowing that your values have changed, continues to act a certain way and suddenly is out-of-synch with you. This is where a lot of strife in a marriage comes from...one person keeps living their life under a certain set of rules and expectations, while the spouse is now playing by a new set of "hidden" rules and expectations. Discord and strife soon follow.

 

The most important thing I've learned, howver, is that core values must exist not only at the individual level...but at the COUPLE level. If you and your spouse aren't sharing core values together, then you really aren't blending two lives into one strong union. That doesn't mean you can't be married...that just begs the question of WHY are you married to each other?

 

My wifes battle with cancer was a huge event in our lives. It changed several of our core values. We shifted an enormous number of dreams for the future to living our lives to the fullest today as we no longer know if a future together is even going to happen. Life values can and will change. But they have to do so in full agreement of one another or you'll end up with a fork in the relationship and that's not fair to each other.

 

I strongly encourage that all committed couples consider relationship contracts that outline your core values, both individual and shared. And review them often, discussing events that reinforce these values or change them. It's going to change, and that's fine....that's part of learning as you grow. But discussing values and living them are part of being authentic and transparent with one another. I count this as one of the single best learnings I've had in my married life. Thankfully....so does my wife.

[sb129]

Wow, D&C, that was a great post. I especially liked this part.

But values can change over time. Sometimes, life experiences make you rearrange certain values. The important thing is that they don't change unilaterally and without any communication to your spouse. Otherwise, you end up with a mismatched set of expectations of behavior. Your spouse, unknowing that your values have changed, continues to act a certain way and suddenly is out-of-synch with you.

[Storyrider]

Dazed, I also like the paragraph that SB quoted. I would add there are times when values get out of synch and cannot be realigned to the satisfaction of both partners.

[Touche]

Values are not the only things that can get out of synch. Sometimes one person grows and changes more than the other person.

 

In marriage, we either grow together or we grow apart.

[Ariadne]

Hi Dazed,

 

I have read some of your posts and I think you are great, and you and your wife were blessed with a wonderful marriage.

 

About this:

 

If you and your spouse aren't sharing core values together, then you really aren't blending two lives into one strong union. That doesn't mean you can't be married...that just begs the question of WHY are you married to each other?

 

I can't agree with you more. I think the best unions are the ones where you share the same core values, attitudes, ways of dealing with conflict, personality, etc.

 

Now, regarding the question.

 

What if someone marries some person that they have absolutely nothing to do with, their core values are opposite, their ways of handling conflict couldn't be any different, have different personalities, and I'd say don't have a spiritual union since they can't see eye to eye on a spiritual level.

 

But yet, the guy in question needs to be with some btch that is going to kick him in the as, make him lick her shoes, treat him like sht, is controlling, doesn't get him and thinks he sucks etc (In other words, behave in a way he never would).

 

But that person likes that because of some emotional hangover that makes him want to be treated that way. And somehow knows how to handle her and is seemingly happy with the arrangement.

 

Do you think that ultimately would lead to a happy relationship? What do you think might happen?

 

Just want to hear your opinion and that of others.

 

Ariadne

[johan]

In marriage, we either grow together or we grow apart.

 

Sometimes one partner tends to just grow. So I'd say how the two people take care of their physical well-being and care for their appearance is also critical.

[Storyrider]

Values are not the only things that can get out of synch. Sometimes one person grows and changes more than the other person.

 

In marriage, we either grow together or we grow apart.

 

Very true, Touche.

 

Here is a site that lists three different premarital quizzes and has some other, similar links. Two of them are explicitly religious, and it looks like maybe the third is not.

http://marriage.about.com/od/premaritaltests/a/premaritaltest.htm

[Storyrider]

Sometimes one partner tends to just grow. So I'd say how the two people take care of their physical well-being and care for their appearance is also critical.

Or sometimes their toenails just grow. Then the other partner should offer to clip them.

[Storyrider]

Now, regarding the question.

 

What if someone marries some person that they have absolutely nothing to do with, their core values are opposite, their ways of handling conflict couldn't be any different, have different personalities, and I'd say don't have a spiritual union since they can't see eye to eye on a spiritual level.

 

But yet, the guy in question needs to be with some btch that is going to kick him in the as, make him lick her shoes, treat him like sht, is controlling, doesn't get him and thinks he sucks etc (In other words, behave in a way he never would).

 

But that person likes that because of some emotional hangover that makes him want to be treated that way. And somehow knows how to handle her and is seemingly happy with the arrangement.

 

Do you think that ultimately would lead to a happy relationship? What do you think might happen?

 

Ariadne,

 

Is it possible you have someone specific in mind?

[Ariadne]

Maybe.....

[Touche]

Sometimes one partner tends to just grow. So I'd say how the two people take care of their physical well-being and care for their appearance is also critical.

 

Ha! Yeah, well I guess there's that too...but I'd like to think that in most cases the superficial takes a back seat to what really counts.

 

But that said, I do agree with your underlying message.

[johan]

Ha! Yeah, well I guess there's that too...but I'd like to think that in most cases the superficial takes a back seat to what really counts.

 

But that said, I do agree with your underlying message.

 

Well, at first glance, maybe it's superficial. But there is a certain poster I know of who deals with this all the time. His wife doesn't take care of herself, and it's a real issue for them. And I also think that being physically attracted to the person you're with is pretty important.

 

Personality and depth can be enough to keep the friendship aspect of the relationship strong. But probably only that aspect.

[Touche]

Well, at first glance, maybe it's superficial. But there is a certain poster I know of who deals with this all the time. His wife doesn't take care of herself, and it's a real issue for them. And I also think that being physically attracted to the person you're with is pretty important.

 

Personality and depth can be enough to keep the friendship aspect of the relationship strong. But probably only that aspect.

 

As I said I agree with the underlying message. But some of us place more importance on other things other than the physical. My H doesn't have the flat stomach he once had...he was 39 when we met. He's 53 now. My physical attraction to him hasn't diminished because of that. My attraction to him has grown in other ways.

 

You're right that personality and depth can be enough to keep the friendship aspect of the relationship strong, but you're wrong in saying that it keeps only that aspect strong. That can transcend even the physical to the point where you find that person very physically attractive. It's a deeper kind of love where you love the whole person...flat stomach or not.

[Ariadne]

Well,

 

His wife doesn't take care of herself, and it's a real issue for them... Personality and depth can be enough to keep the friendship aspect of the relationship strong.

 

That has to do with personality too. That they both like to stay in shape, exercise etc.

[Trialbyfire]

If desire is solely driven by the superficial, it's best to find an equally superficial partner.

[Touche]

If desire is solely driven by the superficial, it's best to find an equally superficial partner.

 

Yes, exactly. I have to agree with that.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, exactly. I have to agree with that.

Someone like this would concern me because I want to have a child or two. Guaranteed, I'll gain weight with assorted body changes. I would hope that a few extra pounds, a few stretch marks and assorted other changes, wouldn't turn a partner off.