sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 'She didnt have an affair can't you read'? Why are you so rude? And read my last post - doesn't sound like it was just an EA. Anyway thats disrespectful enough. Well they are cousins of course they were in contact for 26yrs does it mean they were having and EA for 26yrs ? no not necessarily. what I find odd is that this guy has to point it out to his W that they were second cousins since she always thought they were third cousins....something just doesn't sit right with all this story.
BetrayedMM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 OOOh boy, one of those 'an EA isn't as bad as a PA' things. Depending on what kind of person you are, you can pick one and say it's worse. They are both devastating, and both destroy marriages. If your SO having an EA wouldn't bother you(although I'm sure it would), that's you, but Plano was devastated. Nothing silly about that.
torranceshipman Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Sarme, who cares at this point if it went on for 26yrs or not, point is she's been cheating on him and disrespecting him for some time - worse...with someone he's related to! And if she's the type of woman that'd get intimate with a cousin then yea, she might well have been doing it for 26 years! Who knows! EA or PA - its still an A. And Betrayed MM has apoint...if I was M, I'd prefer to hear my H had had a one night stand or something purely physical than an EA when he was in love with the woman. Well I'd divorce him anyways, whichever one he'd done, lol but if we're splitting hairs, lol, thats how I'd feel! Cmon he deserves better - get out there and find a new woman that respects you and thinks you;re the most gorgeous guy out there!
sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 OOOh boy, one of those 'an EA isn't as bad as a PA' things. Depending on what kind of person you are, you can pick one and say it's worse. They are both devastating, and both destroy marriages. If your SO having an EA wouldn't bother you(although I'm sure it would), that's you, but Plano was devastated. Nothing silly about that. Listen I never said it was silly, I also never said it was not hurtful. What I keep seeing though is the OP chaning things as we go along. First it was an EA that happened because he slow danced with a woman, then it was an EA with her cousin which she didn't even know they were third cousins until he pointed it out, (what kind of person needs their spouse to point out what their family is!?!? sorry if this raises odd thoughts) Then it was an EA over the phone for 2.5 months, then it turned out it was an EA and possibly more for 26yrs, THEN it seems this woman has pet names for this guy and hides his number on her cellphone and all her g/fs know about this and call him pet names too. THEN it turns out this woman gets backrubs etc from coworkers....So if she is such a loose cannon why not just leave her? something just doesn't make sense so I question it
BetrayedMM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 One of the things most cheaters have in common is they usually never really come clean with the whole story. A 26 year affair is going to have a lot of stories, and all he knows is what he's discovered, plus what she's told him, which may not add up at all. He may not have the big picture himself yet, let alone be able to explain it all to us efficiently in a few sentences. Part of the confusion is that the incidents being described are not necessarily in chronological order. Hence my confusion. But, now that I understand that, I can make heads or tails out of it. This is all stuff that happened, just a matter of when.
Author Planofool Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 Let me see if I can clear up a few things. The OM was my wife's 2nd cousin. She thought he was her 3rd cousin. Still kind of sick though. Listen I never said it was silly, I also never said it was not hurtful. What I keep seeing though is the OP chaning things as we go along. First it was an EA that happened because he slow danced with a woman, then it was an EA with her cousin which she didn't even know they were third cousins until he pointed it out, (what kind of person needs their spouse to point out what their family is!?!? sorry if this raises odd thoughts) Then it was an EA over the phone for 2.5 months, then it turned out it was an EA and possibly more for 26yrs, THEN it seems this woman has pet names for this guy and hides his number on her cellphone and all her g/fs know about this and call him pet names too. THEN it turns out this woman gets backrubs etc from coworkers....So if she is such a loose cannon why not just leave her? something just doesn't make sense so I question it I am sorry for the confusion. My wife dated the OM 26yrs ago when she was getting a divorce from her first husband. The OM was an alcoholic and ended up leaving the area. They stayed in touch through letters he sent to her moms house. Over the years he would call our house. As far as I knew my wife was talking to her cousin about family and stuff. The dance happened in Jan of 2007. We talked about it because she had a big problem with it. We also discussed alot of things that bothered one or the other. I started a new job in April of 2007 that kept me very busy and long hours away from the home. She says this had nothing to do with the EA. I call it an EA from what I have learned here. According to her he called first and she called him back as a way to get back at me for the dance. He lives 1200 miles away. When I discovered the cell phone records I started looking through things and started finding letters from the OM. They were dated from 1982 through 1994. He would send them to my W's mom's house and her returned letters went to his work place. As far as I know they never got together even though some letters talk about making arrangements. The EA started in April of 2007 and ended on dday June 21 2007. All of the rest of the stuff has come out since then.
BetrayedMM Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Oh, I get it now. The Cell logs show it to have stepped up quite a bit for 2 & 1/2 months, but it was off and on for 26 years. So... the letter she wrote was about the 'cell phone' phase? Or was it about the whole 26 years? Because, I gotta tell you, those letters between '82 and '94, especially the ones about meeting up, and the secrecy on both sides show it was an A long before early last year. Did it end on its own in 94 and start back up last year?
Author Planofool Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 Oh, I get it now. The Cell logs show it to have stepped up quite a bit for 2 & 1/2 months, but it was off and on for 26 years. So... the letter she wrote was about the 'cell phone' phase? Or was it about the whole 26 years? Because, I gotta tell you, those letters between '82 and '94, especially the ones about meeting up, and the secrecy on both sides show it was an A long before early last year. Did it end on its own in 94 and start back up last year? To the best of my knowledge the cell phone calls were only for the 2.5 months. The 26 years was letters and land line calls. They went past 94, that was when the letters stopped and possibly the land line phone calls took over. He was married once but continued the contact. The letter was about the cell phone phase. She does not give the 26 yrs of letter writing any weight. She says it meant nothing to her! She knew he loved her but she didn't feel the same for him. She says she was just playing with him all those years and loved the attention and thought of him as a backup. But she will tell me that she doesn't care for him in a romantic way.
sarme Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 The letter was about the cell phone phase. She does not give the 26 yrs of letter writing any weight. She says it meant nothing to her! She knew he loved her but she didn't feel the same for him. She says she was just playing with him all those years and loved the attention and thought of him as a backup. But she will tell me that she doesn't care for him in a romantic way. Thank you for explaining everything it makes more sense now ;-)In regards to the second part of your post, a lot of cheaters will say that to the betrayed spouse, it's up to you if want to believe it meant nothing. The reality is you may never find out the truth, so you need to make a conscious decision to trust that it meant nothing if you want to stay with her, or you need to not believe a word she says and move on. I suppose that has to be your current decision, to trust or not to trust.
LifesontheUp Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 I agree with Jmargel your wife is definitely clutching at straws here to justify her emotional affair. So you had a dance with a woman recently yet your wife has been hiding the fact that she has been in touch via letters/telephone with an OM for the best part of the last 26 years. She's already told you that she's been playing him, sorry but I reckon she is playing you too Planofool, your wife is just looking for an excuse to hang it all on YOU. Unless she accepts responsibility for her behaviour and gets help I don't think you will ever be able to trust her again. 26 years is a long time to be carrying on like she has. I'd personally book a counselling session, give her the date and time and ask her to come with you. If she doesn't turn up then you have your answer.....she's not willing to work on your marriage. Good luck.
jmargel Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Plano.. the dance has NOTHING to do with the affair. She is using that (I must say very weak) as to side-track on what really has gone on with her and this OM. 26 years of communication behind your back is IMO 26 years of an affair. Otherwise there would have been no reason to hide all of this from you. Especially with her knowing that he loves her, she continued to lead him on? I honestly believe she was telling him she loved him too, no one would be continuing to contact another person over 25 years when they are not told the same 'I love yous' as they give. Honestly I don't believe you are getting all of the truth, she is giving you what she is forced to. She still maintains the 'victim' role and not taking responsibility for the 26 years of deceit, betrayal, lies and disrespect she has given you. She is trying to focus on something as weak as you dancing with someone else instead of really facing the issues here. It's your life and if you accept what she has given you, then more power to you because I certainly can't rest and put closure on this if I was in your shoes. Remember you found out by detective work, that's the only reason why this all came about, otherwise it would still be going on today, just like it did for the past 20 some years. Tell us about your marriage in other terms? How was she maturity wise? I bet she got just about everything she asked for from you, huh? You were at her beck and call. I don't think she's respected you from the day you got married to her. You should also find her ex-husband, find out the real reason why they got divorced. I bet it has something to do with cheating.
Author Planofool Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 It's funny you should mention contacting the ex husband. In my detective work I found rough drafts of letters she had written to her ex husbands best friend. She was dating him when I met her. Her story is that he helped her through the divorce and she used him to get back at her ex before they divorced. She planned it so her ex would catch them together....what she didn't plan was the ex beating the crap out of the friend. That was the story I was told from day one......Those rough drafts I found tell a different tale of love between my W and the best friend. They got caught alright.....in bed. The day he caught them he filed for divorce. It just gets stranger and stranger. 26 years of communication behind your back is IMO 26 years of an affair. Otherwise there would have been no reason to hide all of this from you. Especially with her knowing that he loves her, she continued to lead him on? I honestly believe she was telling him she loved him too, no one would be continuing to contact another person over 25 years when they are not told the same 'I love yous' as they give. Honestly I don't believe you are getting all of the truth, she is giving you what she is forced to. She still maintains the 'victim' role and not taking responsibility for the 26 years of deceit, betrayal, lies and disrespect she has given you. She is trying to focus on something as weak as you dancing with someone else instead of really facing the issues here. It's your life and if you accept what she has given you, then more power to you because I certainly can't rest and put closure on this if I was in your shoes. Remember you found out by detective work, that's the only reason why this all came about, otherwise it would still be going on today, just like it did for the past 20 some years. Tell us about your marriage in other terms? How was she maturity wise? I bet she got just about everything she asked for from you, huh? You were at her beck and call. I don't think she's respected you from the day you got married to her. You should also find her ex-husband, find out the real reason why they got divorced. I bet it has something to do with cheating. My mother in law has told me that family members have always felt I let my W push me around. I am working on that. There divorce was all about cheating. He had been cheating on her since high school.......she must have learned from him. I have read journal writing by her that she would go out on him when they were dating. She blames alot of her insecurity and low self esteem on the fact that her father left when she was 3. There are plenty of issues here and more stories to tell.
Bryanp Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I would not believe anything she says. Clearly she has had no problem lying and cheating. She had no problem being caught by her previous husband in bed with his best friend and allowing him to get seriously beat up. She is a pathological liar. I hope you have your children tested for paternity. She knows how to manipulate you and make you feel it is your fault for her total disrespect toward you and your marriage. I am afraid your name is quite accurate for your situation.
Author Planofool Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 Thats how I came up with the name.
jmargel Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Well it's clear that she has a history of not only cheating but being very, very revengful. She also has a long history of lying. You letting her push you around and tolerating her behavior only encourages her to do it more. I honstly think at this point you have only one option. To give her the ultamatium of going to MC and/or individual counseling or file for divorce. All this could come from her father leaving her at such a young age, however she is still responsible for her own actions. I urge you to get the book 'Love must be tough' and read it. Right now she shows no value in you or the marriage, because of her personality problems. Tolerating it is doing more damage as well. It's time to step up for yourself. My wife started something similar, after the first year of marriage. It wasn't until I stood up to her, told her to get out and that the marriage was over. Since then she has changed quite a bit, however the biggest change was in me. I absolutely refuse to be mistreated. Too many single, beautiful women out there that will treat you right. You need to learn how to get some self-confidence in yourself. Don't let your own self-worth be dictated by her.
Author Planofool Posted January 22, 2008 Author Posted January 22, 2008 I'm afraid I may have set myself up early in our marriage. I was self employed and had trouble bringing home a paycheck. She has always made decent money. Most of our fighting revolved around my lack of money. For the last 15 yrs I have been the big paycheck in the household. But the past has always been brought up in my face. I also discovered this year that she has been stashing away cash all our marriage. So we had money problems and she was holding out cash, not spending it but not letting us use it. Go figure. If there were not more to the story.......3 kids, the decision would be easy. We have a 10 yr old daughter who would be devestated by our splitting up.
LifesontheUp Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I'm afraid I may have set myself up early in our marriage. I was self employed and had trouble bringing home a paycheck. She has always made decent money. Most of our fighting revolved around my lack of money. For the last 15 yrs I have been the big paycheck in the household. But the past has always been brought up in my face. I also discovered this year that she has been stashing away cash all our marriage. So we had money problems and she was holding out cash, not spending it but not letting us use it. Go figure. If there were not more to the story.......3 kids, the decision would be easy. We have a 10 yr old daughter who would be devestated by our splitting up. Your wife has big issues IMHO. If it were me I would be having a serious re-think about whether this marriage could survive. The lies over the relationship with her cousin for 26 years is bad enough but to be hiding cash at a time when it was needed is further evidence that she is an extremely deceitful person. Throughout the marriage she has continually lied and hidden things. She has no respect for you, thats so clear from all you've written. Not only is she adept at lying to you she is also very good at turning things around and deflecting any responsibility for issues onto you. Come on Planofool, if I'm reading this right, her affair was because you danced with someone else and her hiding the savings was because you weren't reliable with the earnings or something like that. Like I said, if you want to try and work on this, she will need to attend counselling. Set up a session, give her the time and the date and tell her she needs to be there if she wants to stay married. She's continuing to walk all over you, so make a stand. If she doesn't show you'll have your answer.
jmargel Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 I'm afraid I may have set myself up early in our marriage. I was self employed and had trouble bringing home a paycheck. She has always made decent money. Most of our fighting revolved around my lack of money. For the last 15 yrs I have been the big paycheck in the household. But the past has always been brought up in my face. I also discovered this year that she has been stashing away cash all our marriage. So we had money problems and she was holding out cash, not spending it but not letting us use it. Go figure. If there were not more to the story.......3 kids, the decision would be easy. We have a 10 yr old daughter who would be devestated by our splitting up. Another sign of immaturity, keep bringing up the past about an issue that was over with. I don't see this marriage working unless she goes to counseling. She has to want to go and go with an open mind to make it work. She is not at that point yet, she has not yet hit rock bottom. You wanting and starting the divorce could be enough to make her think about wanting to change for herself, you and the children. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. It's time for a change, don't you think?
Author Planofool Posted January 23, 2008 Author Posted January 23, 2008 Another sign of immaturity, keep bringing up the past about an issue that was over with. I don't see this marriage working unless she goes to counseling. She has to want to go and go with an open mind to make it work. She is not at that point yet, she has not yet hit rock bottom. You wanting and starting the divorce could be enough to make her think about wanting to change for herself, you and the children. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. It's time for a change, don't you think? I ordered the book you suggested and two more. I am also thinking about going back to the therapist myself. I just wasn't overly impressed with him, but he came highly recommended. My thought is to go by myself and see how I feel then either tell her to go to the therapist or hit the road. This last posting has really opened my eyes to what I have married. I feel my love for her slipping away.
jmargel Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 Glad you ordered the book. If you don't like your counselor, find a new one. Not all are the same. Of course you feel your love for her slipping away, she hasn't put much into the marriage over the years. I really hope she pulls her head out of her ass quick, just remember that today all the disrespect, the lying and the deceit stops. Today you start living the confidence that will help push you through this.
Author Planofool Posted January 23, 2008 Author Posted January 23, 2008 I really hope she pulls her head out of her ass quick, just remember that today all the disrespect, the lying and the deceit stops. Today you start living the confidence that will help push you through this. You guys have made me realize how much sh*t I have put up with over the years. I am not trying to paint her as a monster........but there are issues that need to be resolved. If you think about it I'm not the only one in this deal who has been played for a fool..............OM. 26 years of feeding him sh*t.
jmargel Posted January 23, 2008 Posted January 23, 2008 We know she's not a monster, she has alot of good qualities to her. That's why you are with her. However you are right she has been lying to quite a few people for a very long time. It's really time to show how upset you are towards her (without getting physical). However when you show this, use confidence, and not the threat of fear. Let her know in black and white the boundaries she has to follow, and the road she needs to follow in order for her to have a chance at saving this marriage. This work has to be done by her. At any time she balks at you, then walk away with your head held high.
Author Planofool Posted January 24, 2008 Author Posted January 24, 2008 The road you are talking about is counseling? Or the way she treats me? If I could hope for anything I would like for her to be nicer to our kids. I can live with everything else for now. Some of us are wondering if this is a middle age crisis or hormones or what. I am going to start tomorrow looking for a different therapist/marriage counselor. I think I will go first by myself. I figure it is going to take a few sessions to bring them up to speed. Or maybe I am looking at that wrong. I don't want to sway them one way or another.
stampdaddy Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 The road you are talking about is counseling? Or the way she treats me? If I could hope for anything I would like for her to be nicer to our kids. I can live with everything else for now. Some of us are wondering if this is a middle age crisis or hormones or what. I am going to start tomorrow looking for a different therapist/marriage counselor. I think I will go first by myself. I figure it is going to take a few sessions to bring them up to speed. Or maybe I am looking at that wrong. I don't want to sway them one way or another. If you are looking for a "couples counselor", go as a "couple". so she doesnt feel ganged up on... if you are (and you should be) looking for an "individual" counselor, go ahead...
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 24, 2008 Posted January 24, 2008 You know what plain, you have put up with alot of bull**** over the years but remember you dont need to stay. You have a choice. You can leave. You can have a new life. If I had a choice of staying in an emotionally abusive and dead marriage. or being single , alone and happy. I choose alone and happy. IT's clear your wife is an idiot who doesnt have any boundries on what happens. It's clear she thinks your a joke. Have some self respect for yourself.
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