Planofool Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 I gave my wife three items to read in regards to her EA. 1. The Healing Heart - Joseph's Letter 2. jmargel's post - My theory on what leads to cheating..... 3. Dear Peggy.com - The long road to recovery To paraphrase here is the meat of the letter, Reasons she had the EA: She was vulnerable She had doubt about my love for her Lack of self esteem Stability or lack of Felt hurt Insecurity Very vulnerable Everyone wants to be loved by someone Low self esteem She was in an emotionaly scary place A choice she made OK folks it was good to finally talk about things with her, but "Me thinks me smells a rat". Can any of this logically add up to reasons for an EA? Keep in mind that all the time the EA was going on we were getting along great. I have said this before.....date night, lots of hugging, lots of telling each other I love you and great sex. I didn't see any of the things she brought out in the letter. Lay it on me, was I in the wrong? She also said the OM was someone who felt she was special and he was her "backup".
jmargel Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 What was she feeling hurt about? Seems like her list has alot of inner personal problems that she needs to see a counselor for. But whatever the reason is, there still is no excuse to cheat. Seems kind of confusing on what is going on. You are mentioning how great the relationship was, and she was making it sound like there was alot of neglect in it. Is she in a depression?
BetrayedMM Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 No, if you did not see any of that, you are not in the wrong. She could have told you instead of expecting you to be a mind reader. Those aren't good reasons or excuses, but it does sound like she's trying to be honest, because if you look into the things that tempt women to cheat, all those things are listed. She had emotional needs that weren't being met, so rather than seeking to have those needs be met by you, she decided to give someone else a try. Sounds like the truth to me! That excuses nothing, but at least you know what she was thinking.
BetrayedMM Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 I would also add that yes, it sounds like in her mind you are the cause... which is not remorse. If and when she realizes she was fully responsible, then you'll know she has at least begun to address the issues that make her a cheater. You cannot make someone a cheater- if they are unhappy with you they always have other options. This is not your fault.
Bryanp Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 He was her backup says it all. What kind of a person would say such a thing? She is able to be happy with you with great sex and have a backup other man to betray you with behind your back. She sounds like a classic cake-eater. I feel sorry for you.
cj1988 Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 I gave my wife three items to read in regards to her EA. 1. The Healing Heart - Joseph's Letter 2. jmargel's post - My theory on what leads to cheating..... 3. Dear Peggy.com - The long road to recovery To paraphrase here is the meat of the letter, Reasons she had the EA: She was vulnerable She had doubt about my love for her Lack of self esteem Stability or lack of Felt hurt Insecurity Very vulnerable Everyone wants to be loved by someone Low self esteem She was in an emotionaly scary place A choice she made OK folks it was good to finally talk about things with her, but "Me thinks me smells a rat". Can any of this logically add up to reasons for an EA? Keep in mind that all the time the EA was going on we were getting along great. I have said this before.....date night, lots of hugging, lots of telling each other I love you and great sex. I didn't see any of the things she brought out in the letter. Lay it on me, was I in the wrong? She also said the OM was someone who felt she was special and he was her "backup". You may be right, what I do not get is if she felt like this WHY did she not tell you? I think she just liked the attention, all of us ladies do, as well as a lot of men. It feel good to be wooooed and talked to as if you are the only thing in the world, but when you are together as long as you have been the butterflies are long goe. I am not telling you what she did was right , it was BAD wrong , my H did the same to me....I am just telling of why she really may have done it without her saying it, she likes the way he talked to her and made her feel, bottom line. I believe she still loves you and always has....she just felt maybe a little bad about herslef , NOT YOIUR FAULT, and he made her feel like a teen again, something she can never be again !
JustBreathe Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 I recently posted a thread on "validation" which means feeling loveable, attractive, accepted, sexy, loved, and desired. Not by you, but by some other person. Your opinion of her didn't really matter anymore as she knew what you thought, what you felt about her. It was the opinions, the constant validation, from another person or other people that mattered. From what the answers to my questions were on the thread, it appears that the cheater abandons the marriage emotionally long before they actually cheat. So, there was nothing you could have done to change things. The problem was hers. She left her marriage emotionally and went seeking validation elsewhere. You could have told her you loved her all the time, told her she was sexy and beautiful, a wonderful person, blah dee blah, and it would not have mattered or changed things. P.S. -- I have not seen J.Margel's post. Do you have the link?
Owl Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 How long ago did the affair end. Don't expect her to take the blame for it for a good while. Don't accept the blame for it for yourself, either. Just realize that during her affair and for a good while afterwards, she's not going to be capable of any kind of logical thought where any of this is involved. We're talking months, or even more than a year before she starts getting her brains back sometimes. Are you in marriage counseling? If not, I'd seriously recommend you find one that has a good handle on recovering a marriage from infidelity. Another good resource for things for the both of you to read might be over at marriagebuilders...do a google search and you'll find it. If its shortly into recovery, your best bet is to stop asking why. She doesn't know. But she DOES blame you...pretty much standard script. Concentrate instead on fixing the things you CAN fix right now as best you can.
Author Planofool Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 What was she feeling hurt about? Seems like her list has alot of inner personal problems that she needs to see a counselor for. But whatever the reason is, there still is no excuse to cheat. Seems kind of confusing on what is going on. You are mentioning how great the relationship was, and she was making it sound like there was alot of neglect in it. Is she in a depression? The hurt stemmed from me dancing 1/2 a slow dance with a lady at a party. She refers to it as dancing with the whore. She won't see a counselor...doesn't want to dredge up her past. Confusing situation you bet. I thought the relationship was going great. I guess I was blind to what was going on.
norajane Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 The hurt stemmed from me dancing 1/2 a slow dance with a lady at a party. She refers to it as dancing with the whore. She won't see a counselor...doesn't want to dredge up her past. Confusing situation you bet. I thought the relationship was going great. I guess I was blind to what was going on. How old is your wife? When I was in my early 20's, I had more extreme reactions to things that I do these days...I can somewhat understand how seeing you 'dancing with the whore' could have flipped the switch within her to make her jealous. And jealousy is about fear of losing someone, which made her feel vulnerable, and then she fought back by turning to someone else and giving back to you what you did to her, 1000 times worse. It's an immature reaction, but it's not uncommon in insecure people. She built that dance up as a major threat, and lashed out in a passive-aggressive way. Not an excuse, just some insight into how she might have been thinking...
sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 The hurt stemmed from me dancing 1/2 a slow dance with a lady at a party. She refers to it as dancing with the whore. . Excuse me what are you doing slow dancing with people at parties while you are married!?!? Was your wife there when you did this? Slow dancing is an antimate act reserved for single people and couples you don't leave your wife sitting at a table so that you can slow dance with another woman. Gees! sorry but she has every right to feel uncomfortable about this. And just like this "little insignificant" gesture there must be many that you think are nothing but she sees as threatening. If she told you she was feeling insecure and all the other things she mentioned in your opening post, listen to her. Stop trying to look for other answers because you don't want to hear the truth, she is telling you how she felt now look at other examples that may have fed into how she was feeling. NO relationship that is perfectly fine, loving, caring and nurturing ends up in infidelity, no matter how you choose to look at it.
Cobra_X30 Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 OK folks it was good to finally talk about things with her, but "Me thinks me smells a rat". Can any of this logically add up to reasons for an EA? Keep in mind that all the time the EA was going on we were getting along great. I have said this before.....date night, lots of hugging, lots of telling each other I love you and great sex. I didn't see any of the things she brought out in the letter. Lay it on me, was I in the wrong? She also said the OM was someone who felt she was special and he was her "backup". Your basing that on the fact that your butt was happy! Just because your happy doesnt mean she is. In fact it may take different things to make her happy than it does you. At some point your going to have to come to terms with the fact that you didnt marry yourself. Oh... and Sarme is right! You shouldnt be dancing with other women. Do you really think that's an Ok thing to do?
Frances Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Your basing that on the fact that your butt was happy! Just because your happy doesnt mean she is. In fact it may take different things to make her happy than it does you. This may be the case but it would help if the spouse would let you know they are unhappy and not assume you are a mind reader Oh... and Sarme is right! You shouldnt be dancing with other women. Do you really think that's an Ok thing to do? It was only a dance in public for heavens sake. When you are out with a group it is usual to dance with the other people in it.
sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 It was only a dance in public for heavens sake. When you are out with a group it is usual to dance with the other people in it. What makes you say he was out in a group? It doesn't say that anywhere in his post.
Frances Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 What makes you say he was out in a group? It doesn't say that anywhere in his post. He said they were at a party. I take it that would be with friends. I do not think for a minute it was dirty dancing type.
sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 He said they were at a party. I take it that would be with friends. I do not think for a minute it was dirty dancing type. OBVIOUSLY he was at a party, my question was what makes you think he was out just with others and that his W wasn't there because all he said was he slow danced with another woman, it doesn't say where, how in which way or who was there.What we do know for sure is that this bothered his W. I think that is enough to go on that if it made his W feel uncomfortable, it is inaproriate.
TMCM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) Lots of spouses at parties often dance with other people with the full knowledge and blessing of their spouses without it ever becoming an serious incident between them. Wagging our fingers at him when we don't even know what the situation was between him and his wife during the time that he took the woman on to the dance floor is somewhat premature don't you think? Besides if this had bothered his wife greatly at the time it happened, then I doubt very much that it would have been something that would have been taken lightly and easily forgotten by the two of them. Edited January 21, 2008 by TMCM
sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 We do know what the situation is.a) he slow danced with another woman b) his wife did not like that at all, what more do you need?
TMCM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) He didn't say that his wife didn't like it at the time it happened but that she acknowledged her discomfort many years after the fact. Seems to me that she is fishing for little things from the past to justify her insecurities and her betrayal. Edited January 21, 2008 by TMCM
sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 He didn't say that his wife didn't like it at the time it happened but that she acknowledged her discomfort many years after the fact. Seems to me that she is fishing for little things from the past to justify her insecurities and her betrayal. Why are you splitting hairs? He did something inapropriate that she does not like, no need to go further into any explanation.
TMCM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Why are you splitting hairs? He did something inapropriate that she does not like, no need to go further into any explanation. Only because you made it in to a red herring issue out of it.
sarme Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Listen, the OP puts out a list of reasons explaining what lead his his w to her infidelity, he then asks should I believe all this? people ask him what he could have done to make her feel insecure, since this seems to be a running theme in here letter to him, he assures they had a perfectly normal relationship and later admits he was off at some party slow dancing with other women, and this bothered his W. Just as he explained this little scenario I am sure there are plenty more like this that he feels are fine and she does not. SO if he really wants to understand if what she claimed in the letter was true, maybe it is time to look at the "little" things he has done to make her feel the way she is claiming she she is feeling. He is not having a relationshion with himself so time to look at his actions too. AGAIN, TMCM why are you splitting hairs? Last I checked no one is holding a gun to your fingers LOL
TMCM Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Look I'm not saying that he didn't contribute to the bad state of the marriage and he has to own up to his own sh** in order to do his part in any rebuilding of the marriage. My point is that even small things can be used by an insecure person to justify his/her affair, that's all. Truce?
Author Planofool Posted January 21, 2008 Author Posted January 21, 2008 OK folks heres the deal....my wife convinced me to go to this 50th birthday party for a friend of ours, she had to work and could not go. I did not want to go because I am a stay at home person. My wife and I both turned fifty this year. I went with a friend and his girlfriend and she met her friend at the door so she could walk in with us. After 4 hrs of being with all my high school friends partying and drinking, not dancing, we were getting ready to leave when the lady who met us at the door asked me to dance. I didn't even think about it I just got up and danced. Well all my friends were making a big deal, joking and telling me they were going to tell my wife. On the way home I called my wife at work to tell her who I saw and who asked about her. She asks if I danced with anybody and I said yes and she asked who and I told her and she went ballistic. I did not realize how mad she was until later. I that point she decided she was going to raise the bar as she put it. She said she knew at some point a man would give her the opportunity to get me back. I told her there was nothing to get me back for. I was wrong I apologized and said it meant nothing to me. This all happened this year. When I found out about her 2 1/2 months of cell phone conversations with the OM she claims it started as revenge against me for dancing with the whore. The OM is her 2nd cousin whom she has been in contact with off and on for 26 yrs. They used to date right before I met her. I just learned all of this lately. She has all the letters he ever wrote her. He professes his love to her in every letter. So if you think her EA was validated by that one dance I would have to disagree.
Bryanp Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Your wife is one sick person. You cannot even remotely compare the two situations. She sounds amazingly immature. I would think long and hard whether you wish to spend the rest of your life with such a person.
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