Love will tear us apart...this situation has gotten so screwed

[shadowplay]

Last night with my boyfriend was a complete nightmare.

 

We started on a bad foot because yet again he failed to keep in touch with me since we last saw each other over the weekend. All I ask for is a simple five minute call once a day. We had plans to do something last night, but when he hadn't called by 6 pm (yet again) I got fed up and called him. His excuse was that he was on the internet at the library and lost track of time. He also acted pretty cold at first when we met up for dinner. I was gearing up to end things with him. My reason is his terrible communication skills on top of a million other problems (some his, some mine) that I mentioned at the end of my last thread.

 

Before our talk I could feel the dread building inside. I was still extremely conflicted about going through with it. I do care a great deal about him, and I love him even if I feel a certain component is missing. More than anything -- and perhaps this is an irrational fear -- I was scared that he simply wouldn't care if I broke things off. Since I was on the fence about ending things, I figured that if he really tried to persuade me not to, I might give him another chance. I was testing him in a sense, but breaking up seemed like the lesser of two evils even from an objective standpoint.

 

We sat in a dark room on a mattress on the floor. Our conversation lasted seven hours. I started by asking him why he rarely contacts me when we're apart. He said that he tends to have a one track mind and gets easily distracted by whatever is in front of him. He only thinks about what he's doing at the moment, and puts off things that he knows he's supposed to do. (Seems to imply that talking to me is a chore.) I told him that I think about him a lot, and asked him if he thinks about me often. He said I only cross his mind about three or four times a day, and it's usually a feeling of shock and elation that "Wow, this girl I really admire loves me." I was pretty taken aback when he revealed how infrequently he thinks of me. I think about my cat more than that.

 

This probably hurt me more than anything else he said last night. Part of me was hanging on to the hope that he wasn't contacting me just because he didn't know better or because he thought he would be bugging me. Instead he confirmed my fear that it's a reflection of how unimportant I am to him.

 

I would be willing to accept his one track mind explanation but for one inconsistency. I know that at various points in high school and college (he's now 24) he became infatuated and virtually stalkerish with girls he barely knew. These were usually girls he had short flings with who later rejected him, but the crushes lasted months or years. He told me that he called them constantly, even biked to their houses in the middle of the night to just look at the outside of their houses. It's not that I want him to be obsessive like that, but I wonder why he doesn't think about a girlfriend he's supposedly in love with nearly as often as he does these girls he barely even knew. It suggests an inability to reciprocate love.

 

When I asked him about this, he said that he vowed to himself a few years ago that he would never pine away for another girl and he's kept his feelings bottled up since. Now I understand why at the very beginning of our relationship he said he takes "cautious steps" when it comes to love. The whole time he's been holding back; he admitted as much last night. He's scared that if he lets go completely he'll become manic as he did on those past occasions. Bipolar runs in his family, and he's been diagnosed as hypomanic. He's afraid of falling off the edge if he loses control. He has a valid point, but you can't fall in love unless you abandon some control. You can't meter out the amount of new love that you feel in each successive month.

 

I can understand the need to build trust at the very beginning, but we've been together for six months and he's still struggling with this control thing. He said he desperately wants to be completely close to me, but allowing himself to feel and give up the reigns isn't in his conscious control. I guess his wall has become impenetrable after those scarring experiences.

 

Maybe this explains why he keeps saying he thinks he's in love with me, or he's almost completely in love with me. Or he's pretty close to me but not completely. He'll always be just on the cusp unless he lets himself feel.

 

I don't know how to deal with this. I'm terrified that I'll invest so much into this relationship (even more than I already have), only to find myself alone at the finish line.

 

At this point in our conversation I felt even more convinced that breaking up was the right choice. I told him I was considering taking a break, tentatively, to gauge his reaction. He was upset and sad but not nearly to the extent i expected given all he's said in the past about "please don't leave me." He said "that would devestate me and break my heart," but he seemed oddly detached as if he was talking about another person. He got really angry at himself for screwing things up, and kept saying over and over how much he loved me. He buried his head in my shoulder and made noises as if to cry...but I noticed his eyes were dry. He said "See, I want so much to cry and I can't even do that. Deep down inside I feel devestated but I can't even cry." (His only emotion here in the tone of his voice was frustration.) I asked him when the last time he cried was and he said a long, long time ago (no surprise). He said he was shocked that I was breaking up with him.

 

I grew suspicious that every gesture he was making was false. He was just going through the motions. He wanted to feel, but couldn't. How could he be so numb and detached? Tears were streaming down my face and I rarely cry. I was the one breaking things off, yet I was crying more than he was! Nothing disturbs me more than emotional coldness. A sign of any genuineemotion in him would have been a relief, even of anger.

 

I quickly realized how much I love him because his reaction was hurting the hell out of me. But something in me snapped after everything he told me, and I emotionally checked out of the relationship. He gradually became more affectionate and genuine in his gestures. I could tell at that moment he really did love me. But what does it matter when it never lasts? Every time he said "I love you" again I imagined a penny dropping into a giant basin and echoing loudly. I'm not sure what this image meant, but it felt right.

 

This is where things got really screwed up...

 

I have the ability, when I shut down my emotions, to switch into an extremely cold, selfish state of mind. Sort of like an extreme version of what he does, but it's less frequent. My thoughts suddenly shifted to his friend, since I was beginning to realize this relationship was a lost cause.

 

My boyfriend has already guessed that I sort of like this guy, which he isn't too happy about. I asked him if he would be okay with me casually dating his friend while I try to "figure out what I want." He kept going back and forth. He said he didn't want me to, but then pointed out that it would be Karmic payback for his getting involved in a love triangle with his best friend as a teenager. Then he said he would let me do it if it meant not losing me. He said he didn't want me to do it, but losing me would be worse. He said he's always tried hard not to be the controlling, jealous type. So basically he was okaying an open relationship if it meant not losing me. He said he would let me have sex with the guy once but he was scared to death that I would run away with the guy after I did. Well this was at first...then he got increasingly angry. Suddenly he just wouldn't talk to me. Of course I don't blame him for any of this. What I asked him to allow me to do was pretty terrible. I was in this detached state where I couldn't feel anything.

 

The idea of hooking up with this guy, which had once excited me, now left me feeling even emptier. From a detached perch I began to realize my devestation at losing a relationship that had touched on love and was almost, but never quite, there. Why had those moments of connection been so brief? They seemed meaningful in isolation, but never coalesced into anything greater.

 

This morning I left things on an unresolved note. I told him I wouldn't break up with him just yet and that I would think things over. He kept saying he really doesn't want to lose me, and how it doesn't seem like there's enough of a reason for us to break up since he loves me so much. How he can say that after I proposed an open relationship is beyond me. I have no idea where we'll go from here, but things feel broken.

 

We stopped at a cafe for lunch before he dropped me off. It was so cold between us. Usually when I touched his hand I felt nothing. Or I longed for him but recoiled when I sensed his distance. There's this Joy Division line about "touching from a distance." That sums up our whole relationship.

[Florida]

How are you feeling now?

I have to wonder if you struck him with the comment about being with his friend to assure it won't work out, even if reconcilation was what you desired.

 

I'm sure there were times you felt cold, but didn't say the *one thing* that would drive a wedge for any healthy chance at future reconciliation. So obviously you secretly don't want to continue. Sometimes we burn the bridge to make sure we can never cross it again.

 

It's strange Shadow, I read your posts and when you feel up, I see the relationship as good, when you feel upset, then I see him giving obsessive attention to ex crushes but not you, his current GF, as a real problem.

 

I'm as confused reading it as you must feel. But if you felt the need to go there, then so be it. Maybe it was bugging you for good reason. Emotional stinginess is hard to take at 6 months, harder at year 1, and worse from there. It is always a gamble how long will you hold out, how long can you play "chicken" (the cars racing into eachother dare ) with your heart before saying enough.

 

You don't really want him back, do you? Or maybe you are so worried you will go back you had to put the knife in to make sure it stayed over.

 

Or....maybe so if he crawled back, after that, you would then know the depth of his devotion.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Florida

[johan]

Wow, you remind me a LOT of my ex. You think and act just like her. Except she never openly expressed interest in any other guy.

[Florida]

Wow, you remind me a LOT of my ex. You think and act just like her. Except she never openly expressed interest in any other guy.

 

Let's role play to shed some light.

Would you say you were similar to shadow's BF, in terms of seeiming like you were emotionally holding back, or meting out affection too slowly?

 

If so, can you give any advice to Shadow from HIS perspective?

 

For example, is he into her beyond what he felt for crushes? Is she right in her intuition ?

[BlueEyedGirl]

It's all poitnless from now. After this episode the relationship is screwed up for good.

[johan]

The answer as to whether you should break up with him is no. The correct answer is that he should break up with you. But in case he doesn't figure it out for himself, then yes, you need to break it off. And then at least have enough respect not to twist the knife by going for his friend. You're a pretty girl, and you can find love somewhere else.

 

And in case something I've said or something someone else says clears the fog and makes you regret what has happened, I say you should still end it. Because these feelings you're having will return, like they always do, and you'll be in this boat again soon.

[oppath]

Where the hell do you get off asking him if you can casually date his friend while you figure it out? Understand that in his vulnerable state, he is likely to agree to anything. He does have feelings for you even if he doesn't express them as often or the way that you would like. He does have love for you.

 

Asking that is not consistent with caring about him. It is not. It's just mean. It's a bitch move. I've always admired your posts, Shadowplay, but it seems like you almost want to punish him somehow for not loving you quite the way you want. If his love isn't enough for you, fine, end it. You did a reasonable job explaining your issues. But stay away from his friend. Give yourself a 4 month ultimatum on that.

[fray718]

I think everything you said and did was ok and valid up until the point you asked if you can date his friend. I agree with oppath. But either way, I think this relationship at this point is doomed.

[Krytie TV]

Wow... I thought I had some bad break-ups. You're something else Shadow. What do you do for an encore, kick his cat?

[oppath]

You ask questions like "how often do you think of me" and he gave an honest answer. 3 or 4 times a day may mean "I think of you in the morning before going to work. I wake up wishing you were next to me. I think of you at lunch; you are so much more fun to talk to than my coworkers. I think of you in the afternoon when I'm getting tired at work, eager to see you later. I think of you at night when no one is beside me in bed."

 

I understand that you want a different type of romance, that you want some kind of intense love from him. I honestly feel his restraint in those areas is largely maturity. I don't fault you at all if you feel something is missing, to end this. I certainly know what it is like to feel like you are unimportant. That feeling sucks. I just don't see it from his perspective. He endured a LDR from the beginning and eventually moved to be with you. That is commitment. To me, his actions do indicate that he has feelings for you, strong ones. If something is missing, so be it. The things you mention, they are your feelings and they are valid. But really, it seems this whole thing is full of tests. I'm not saying you are wrong to end the relationship for these reasons, only it is wrong to pose it as a big test. Your expectations were out of whack. You broke up with him wanting him to make a big deal and convince you to stay? I assure you: him saying "ok" doesn't mean he isn't devastated. When someone breaks up with me, I'm not going to argue and say "but we can make it work." I ask "why?" and then "if that's how you feel, this is over." Otherwise, let's just discuss the issues, and then give me a couple weeks to address the problems you mentioned.

 

I can't re-stress again how inappropriate it was to bring up his friend. That is bayoneting the wounded. It is kicking him when he is down.

[BlueEyedGirl]

I can't re-stress again how inappropriate it was to bring up his friend. That is bayoneting the wounded. It is kicking him when he is down.

 

 

Yeah, I think that was her biggest mistake. Even if they try to work things out at this point, he will never forget that comment and will never look at her the same way.

[Memories&Dust]

Wow... I have to say, I think expectation can be a hugely damaging thing... You're hurt because he only thinks of you 3/4 times a day, and this doesn't fit into your model of what is normal...I agree with Oppath, you cannot gauge how intense those thoughts are.

 

It seems that deep inside you seem to know that the relationship has no future, but it's become an exercise in gaining his attention, and attempting to gauge his depth of feeling for you. Sadly it seems that you took it a little too far by seeing if he'd be hurt in regard to you dating his friend. It's not okay to play with someone's feelings that way, it's actually reckless. Of course he toggled between being okay with it, and being hurt, because on the one hand he was probably feeling enormously vulnerable, and wanted to hide that from you, and on the other, he clearly does have feelings for you, and doesn't want to lose you.

 

Unfortunately, as I seem to be learning myself, you cannot change people, only they can change themselves, and if he is not fulfilling your needs/giving you the reactions you wished to see from him, you might want to consider whether the relationship is worth the heart ache, and the damage you're doing to each other.

 

Hope you gain some clarity...

[spookie]

Dayum.

 

Here's my opinion.

 

You want a different kind of love than the one he is able to provide. You want it to match yours in intensity of emotion. But ask yourself this: would you want your SO to treat you the way you've treated your bf? Probably not.

 

His love is different from yours, but that doesn't make it any less real. Think about all the nice things he's done for you. That's love. Just cause you're not always on his mind doesn't mean he doesn't love you. It just means he's better at compartmentalizing. That's a GOOD thing! If he sucked at it as much as you do, his life would be an equally gigantic mess. (no judgements from me... I took my clothes off for money.)

 

But ya know... the heart wants what the heart wants, and I really think, at the end of the day, he just wans't the guy for you. The guy for you would make you happy, not anxious. It doens't matter if you're happy some of the time. If the rest, you are freaking out, it means he's taking more from you than giving back. Which means, you have to move on, he's not good for you.

 

The friend thing... I'm not going to touch on that. You know it was wrong. I've done similar things (but would never do them again) so I think I understand your motivation (what would have hurt more than knowing you irrevocably hurt him, was knowing you couldn't cause he never really cared).

[BlueEyedGirl]

On the side note, I think that original post is beautifully written.

[ahah2322]

blueEYED, maybe linguistically. but content wise, it's really screwed up.

 

i've always compared you to a pensive-hippie-musician. the kind of love you seek is intense and IMPRACTICAL in nature. you expect ALOT of reflection, deeeeeeep communication and analysis from both partners in love. the way you want to 'help his friend', as you'd mentioned in your previous thread, illustrates this. he's quiet and pensive and i suppose you like to get into people's head. (maybe cos to be able to read it doesn't scare you)

 

emotional intimacy does not require the constant rumination and cognitation. IMHO, you feel emotionally distant because you distant yourself. you don't trust (and second-guess) reactions of other people and therefore you act in a protective manner even before everything starts. you contribute to a self-fulfilling prophecy shadowplay. (see: breaking up and 'testing' thoughts)

 

i've been following your posts and the kind of feelings and trepidation you constantly encounter always strike a chord within me. the problem is not with him, it's with you, shadow. you are very negative and its not healthy to keep over-analyzing things, trying to look for DEEEEEP emotional attachment and connection cos it's there but your inexorable endeavours to second guess and muse incessantly blinds you from the emotional intimacy. why don't you revel and relish the relationship? why can't you do that? why don't you see 3-4 times as something positive? you won't be satisfied with 7-8 times either. if he were to say 'all the time', you'd think he's lying. do you get what i mean?

 

let's not even go to the 'open relationship' part. you have just RUINED and obliterated the sanctity of a mono- relationship. it's not going to last, girl. i don't know if you meant it... but its really a low blow to your guy.

 

you are NOT READY for a relationship. i know i'm probably the girl who always put you in a negative light. but really, your thinking is a little messed up. your thoughts are blinding your vision and destroying your happiness. (well, you don't seem to like being happy anyway.. rather, you obsess about it)

[Ariadne]

Yeah, I think that was her biggest mistake. Even if they try to work things out at this point, he will never forget that comment and will never look at her the same way.

 

She doesn't care about that. She likes the friend more than the bf now and just wants to date the friend.

 

(Doubt the friend will go for that since guys tend to stick for friends more than girls, but you never know).

 

All she wanted out of this relationship was the be "adored" and "worshiped".

 

The bf, being the pimp that he is (and I said that from the start). See:

 

~ why he rarely contacts me when we're apart. He said that he tends to have a one track mind.

 

~ vowed to himself a few years ago that he would never pine away for another

 

~ he's been holding back. He's scared that if he lets go completely he'll become manic

 

~ He buried his head in my shoulder and made noises as if to cry...but I noticed his eyes were dry. He said "See, I want so much to cry and I can't even do that.

 

-----

 

Tried to reassure her that he loved her by saying I love you a million times when he was with her, and at the same time not caring to know one thing about her, keeping things at a very superficial level, and ignoring her the times they were apart (contacting her just enough for her not to dump him).

 

I'm surprised it lasted this long even, but I underestimated the power of her being attractive. That's what this whole thing is all about, the guy is having lots of sex with an attractive girl and is putting up with her the best he can.

 

But, I never thought she loved him either, all she did was some kind of manufactured relationship to get him to adore her, which she failed at, the guy was more cunning and more clever than she was.

 

I agree the original post was beautifully written.

 

Ariadne

[Ariadne]

Oh yeah,

 

And it gets even more screwed up.

 

According to SP:

 

~ I'm 24 and I've never had an orgasm

 

~ We have a lot of sex on the days when we do see each other. Usually about 8-12 times over the course of the weekend.

 

~ Last night we had sex four times and the first three times he came in less than twenty seconds or so.

 

---

 

The guy is having a kick there, such the love.

[Star Gazer]

Dayum.

 

That's all I can really echo here. Wish I had more to say...