StillConfused Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) It's been months since I posted my last post. The man I was seeing at the time and I had broken up with finally came back about 1-1.5 months back telling me that he was free from his ex relationship and wanted to start something together with me... Apart from this lack of trust that I developed towards him the way our relationship had developed I always thought that he was a kind and sensible man. Very similar to me in his interests and aspirations. Therefore I told myself, let's start little by little to see where this brings us... Honestly, I do think he loves me, except that I did not think he had enough courage to be always honest with me and this still hurts me... I don't know whether I will ever be able to forgive... Anyhow, we started out things slowly. I am not ready to move in together although he asked me to do so because he says I am the right person for him and he knows that will never meet anyone he loves like he loves me. He even proposed to marry me. Due to the trust issues I don't want to jump quickly into a serious situation like this. Therefore, we don't live yet together and I want to take some time while seeing each other when we want (but without living together) to see if this relationship could be the right relationship for me. Sometimes I do think that he's the right man for me... but then some things occur (fortunately rarely) that make me feel I don't trust him and can't trust him. Overall, I am happy the way he treats me. He sees me every single day. Desires to stay and spend time with me. We do a lot of things together. Hang out several evenings till late during the week (we both work till late). He comes to see me on the weekends. Although on the weekends we see each other less than during the week days because my mom comes over often to stay with me. He's met my mom, my sis, my family and behaves himself very well. Everybody likes him. So, I have nothing to complain about this part. Now, you'd ask where my trust issues are stemming from... From the past experiences. He had not always told me the truth about his ex relationship. I know that she calls him sometimes. He says once or twice a week. But I have never seen how he behaves with her when on the phone. From what I know she still tells him that loves him and so on. Now, what I have hard time digesting is that it seems to me, although our relationship seems to be perfect, that he's hiding his phone calls and messages from me. His mom knows about me although I have not met her but she sent me a note for holidays. I have not yet met with his friends because they all know his ex girlfriend. Of course, I am not pushing because what he's giving me is fine... But in this situation of course I can't know that everything he's telling me is truth. We don't live together. So he could actually be continuing to see him and may not be telling me. Why does it seem to me that he's hiding his calls and messages from me? Am I just seeing the problems where there are no problems? Now, after 1 month of feeling this way, today he got a message, I had a feeling it was from her and I asked him: Was it her? He replied calmly, no it's not her and asked me if I wanted to see his mobile phone. For the first time I told him that I did want to see. At this point he got upset and started saying that I hurt him because I don't trust him. He thought we were through these trust issues. That he can't believe that I asked him to show me his mobile phone. He does not understand why I need to be controlling his phone. Anyhow, the long story told short, he DID NOT show me his mobile. I replied that if he really cares about me trusting him he has to make so that this happens. He knows that he's lied to me on a couple of occasions. He knows the situation the way it evolved. So I think it's too selfish for him to expect that I trust him right off because of everything he's doing for me now. I told him that if a person has nothing to hide does not overreact like this, yes, of course, gets upset but in the end shows the mobile to show that nothing is wrong. In a relationship principles count less than altruism, giving and understanding. Am I overreacting? Am I demanding too much? Sometimes I feel he's the right person, yet sometimes I feel that he's not doing enough to make me trust him completely. I have this constant feeling that he may be lying about something. What shall I do? What would you do? Am I just being paranoid? Please help me understand what's the best option I've got? Confronting him with his mobile, not showing me his messages and calls, not having me meet his friends has not worked so far...What would you do? sorry for this long message. But I was wondering whether anybody else has got a similar situation and how it progressed... What did you do? THANK YOU SO MUCH Edited January 17, 2008 by a LoveShack.org Moderator WOW.....seperated long paragraph!!
Owl Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 Hence the reason why long term relationships based on an affair rarely work out. You don't trust him...rightfully so. He's clearly demonstrated his CAPABILITY to lie outright, and now he's continuing in untrustworthy behavior with you. I don't have any suggestions on how to fix the problem, unfortunately. I would say that it will take a long time for him to build up trust with you...IF he does everything right from the very beginning. (like show you his mobile, understand why you're struggling with this, etc...) Its almost the same process that a WS would have to do to rebuild the trust with their BS if they decided to stay and reconcile the marriage. My only advice to you would be to set clear boundaries in what you'll accept from him in his behavior. Make it clear that you REQUIRE these steps to build trust in him...and that you're not willing to have a relationship with him without building the trust first.
Author StillConfused Posted January 16, 2008 Author Posted January 16, 2008 thank you... your advice is so much to the point. I agree with you... my lack of trust in him has significantly underlined my relationship... the passion and the friendship that was there... he's come long way trying to recover it and this time it is actually VERY different. Yet, as you say, I don't feel it's enough... I need a total transparency... As bad as it may sound, I do need that for the first several weeks he be totally open about everything he's doing, writing, receiving from his ex... is this too much to ask? I mean he's come back.. he wants to build something important based on his words... then he should understand that I need help from him to get to the point when I can say yes I trust you and I want to live with you for the rest of my life... or say no, it can't work out because we tried everything but I just can't get through with this... Am I asking for too much?
Owl Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I don't think you're asking for too much to build a relationship on. But you may well be asking for too much from someone who's cheated. He very well may not be capable or willing to be open and transparent to you...look at how well lying and hiding worked out for him in the recent past.
child_of_isis Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 I can almost bet there is more than 'calling' going on between these two. She is now the OW. I think some ex's do this for spite. There is no repair IMO. If he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you.
PoshPrincess Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 If he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you. I've never been one to agree on the above but, StillConfused, I am sorry to say that I don't think things sound too good for you. There is a chance he may still be involved with his ex and that he's just stringing you along. On the other hand, because of the way you two got together it is possible that you're reading too much into things. I am sure if I had ended up with MM I would've been the same so it isn't surprising. I think your man should be more understanding of the trust issues you have and be prepared to be totally upfront with you - phone calls, texts and everything - if that's what it takes to reassure you, although there will have to be a cut-off point where enough is enough, as you can't go through a relationship without trust.
child_of_isis Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Stillconfused: I read your other posts. Man, you have been through it. This guy is really playing with your head. I don't think you will ever know the full truth of anything until you talk to the ex. Why does it matter if she knows now? He says they are split. At least YOU will find some truth.
frannie Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Stillconfused, this man has a history of lying to you about what his relationship with his ex has been. I know a lot of BSs will say, well what do you expect, cheaters lie! But there is a difference, a crucial and critical difference here which I've gone into before. The reason he lies to you is not because he feels himself 'stuck' in a marriage, doesn't want to hurt the kids, blah blah blah... it's purely and simply because he's a dishonest person in relationships, and does not respect you, and thinks he can pull the wool over your eyes for his own manipulative purposes. And from his actions, he's still doing it. And no, you're not asking too much. You have no reason whatever to trust this man. And if he cannot see that, and he cannot and will not give you concrete, practical reassurance that he's changed his ways (which he is unlikely to have done since he has no real reason to), then you should not trust him at all. No more than a BS would blindly trust a WS who has cheated on him/her. He has to show and prove to you that you can trust him. And he's not doing that. And to be honest, even if he were, I wouldn't trust him, not on his past record.
Author StillConfused Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Well, honestly, I am not suffering... so, this is a good thing... I guess, after all I don't love him as much as I thought I did... I too think of this often and trust is extremely important to me... I can't trust this person... Even if he's really honest (which I don't think he is) how can I trust a person who's not come clean with his ex after everything she's been through... I've always told him that he owed her an explanation. At least he should have been honest with her... This is what I would have done... He tells me that this would never happen with me because it's different. He'll always talk with me about everything but he demands trust from me... and I say how could you demand a blind trust after everything we've been through? I don't believe in miracles... I simply believe that if both of the people want to really work things out they will... but a relationship is made of 2 people... I am also questioning why I can't his mom... There are too many things that tell me that he's not completely upfront with me... and I just can't believe he's asking me to get married and go live together... He would have to tell everybody that he married me... so, why can't he just do the same thing? if he so much wants to marry me... I am simply disappointed... but deep down I am not hurt... I just gave this another chance...and if it continues this way, I will definitely not take into consideration any action that would transform this into a serious and long term relationship... thank you all so much for your feedback... it helped me understand that it's not myself who's overreacting... that I am just being normal in my doubts... This what I wanted to know... Edited January 17, 2008 by a LoveShack.org Moderator seperated paragraph AGAIN....
Author StillConfused Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 just as a side note... it takes really so much energy to trust a person you have a hard time trusting... so much... I'll definitely not live through this for a long time...
Owl Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 This is a huge part of why the rebuilding of trust in a marriage damaged by infidelity has to be done in marriage counseling. You need a plan to manage rebuilding that trust.
Author StillConfused Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 This evening he asked me why I was being cold with him so I confronted him for the yesterday's event. He said that he's ready to give me everything I need in order to regain my trust in him. That even yesterday he would have done it had I asked it a bit more politely. He said that he understands that there are trust issues and understands why there are these. And that he wants to and will work on these.
Author StillConfused Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 Frannie.. I am just wondering what you mean by the following: ... (which he is unlikely to have done since he has no real reason to)...
Author StillConfused Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 Who of you thinks I should speak with his ex as suggested here? If you do think I should shall I tell him first that I am planning to do so? I don't like really doing things behind someone's back... So even if I were to call her to clear things up (and I am not planning to right now) I would first tell him... any thoughts?
Owl Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Well...I'll give you the same advice I'd give a BS about contacting the OP. Its not likely to do you any good. You won't be able to "prove" anything most likely. If she's not involved with him, she'll tell you that, but can't prove it...so you'll still end up doubting. If she IS involved with him...she'll almost certainly lie about it, but you won't believe it...so you still end up doubting him. There is an OFF chance that she'd be honest and admit it...but the odds are low, and even if she does admit it, you're likely to sit there and convince yourself that she's making it up. Other than him showing you by his actions over an extended period of time, I don't know what you can do to rebuild your trust in him. That's about all I can say.
Author StillConfused Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 You know what Owl? You are so sage... It's really an amazing lesson to listen to you. I really like everything you've got to say. Thank you.
child_of_isis Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 Nooooooo......don't tell him. He has you so confused now that he will tell you even more crap to talk you out of it. You are already in a freaky place, if you tell him, he'll bring the freak on you even harder. You are not strong enough to handle that right now. You need to know the truth. Now. Before you get in any deeper. If you get in any deeper, you are just going to hurt worse once the truth is revealed. Right now, you need to think of yourself. Who of you thinks I should speak with his ex as suggested here? If you do think I should shall I tell him first that I am planning to do so? I don't like really doing things behind someone's back... So even if I were to call her to clear things up (and I am not planning to right now) I would first tell him... any thoughts?
frannie Posted January 21, 2008 Posted January 21, 2008 Well, honestly, I am not suffering... so, this is a good thing... I guess, after all I don't love him as much as I thought I did... I too think of this often and trust is extremely important to me... I can't trust this person... Even if he's really honest (which I don't think he is) how can I trust a person who's not come clean with his ex after everything she's been through... I've always told him that he owed her an explanation. At least he should have been honest with her... This is what I would have done... He tells me that this would never happen with me because it's different. He'll always talk with me about everything but he demands trust from me... and I say how could you demand a blind trust after everything we've been through? Oh SL, in my opinion this is just a lot of words. How is it 'different' with you exactly, does he think? He can't just 'demand' trust. And he does NOT talk about things with you, he's shifty, he hides things. Look what he did when you asked him to show you his phone. He can't have it both ways. This evening he asked me why I was being cold with him so I confronted him for the yesterday's event. He said that he's ready to give me everything I need in order to regain my trust in him. That even yesterday he would have done it had I asked it a bit more politely. He said that he understands that there are trust issues and understands why there are these. And that he wants to and will work on these. So he'll be honest and open with you if you're more polite? What about being honest and open with you in the face of your obvious hurt and fear about the situation because of what he's done and what he seems to be continuing to do? How is it HE gets to lay down the rules here: be polite and I'll be open. He has quite a lot of nerve. Frannie.. I am just wondering what you mean by the following: ... (which he is unlikely to have done since he has no real reason to)... Well lying has got him quite a long way, what reason does he have to change? From what you write here, despite your 'lack of feeling' (and that numbness doesn't necessarily mean its emotionally over for you) it sounds like you're still prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, as long as he says the right words and keeps spinning those lies. He has no reason to change because you will still go on engaging with him even as he talks his way out of trouble. He has probably made a lifetime practice of lying, and talking his way out of it. And he knows just what to say to leave that little bit of hope that he will change, will be different, will open up... ... you just have to be 'more polite', more this more that. Get it..?
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