NoChance Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I dont know what it is about this new city I recently moved to, but everyone friend I make turns ends up having/creating issues I just dont want to deal with. I'm really bigging to lose my faith, it seems everyone these days it just in it for their own benefit these days. Its feels like I havent had a genewine friend since my childhood days sometimes. This new situation for example, I'm not sure how to approach it or if I'm reading it wrong. Any insight from the LS experts would be greatly appricaited. I made friends with a guy we'll call Alex last semester. He didnt have cable or a tv at his place so knowing he was a huge sportsfan like myself, I'd invite him over whenever there was a big game on. We both drink, smoke and eat alot and during a 3 hour game, you can consume quite a bit($$$). At first my friend whenever Alex would come over and he'd eat/drink/smoke he would either give me cash for how much he'd had, or he would just bring a bottle/case of beer to make up for it as I'm a 20 year old student and I have my own expenses, obviously I shouldnt be covering his. After this x-mas break, and we returned back to school, its like he's a different person. He's as nice as he's ever been, still a good friend for the most part, except he is all of a sudden incredibly cheap. Its to the point where he has got to know I'm annoyed, but he's waiting until I'm actually going to say something directly to him out loud. Twice now, we've been at my place and Alex has suggested we go grab fast food somewhere, only to get there and he "forgot" his wallet and asked me to "spot" him. I'm yet to be paid back. He tried to pull it a 3rd time, but I claimed to not have enough cash, and he somehow pulled out a credit card he claimed was emergency only and yet used it to pay for his food. He also now comes over(invites himself over) every single evening to watch all his favorite prime time shows and sports at my house. A few times now he has made comments about how I'm spoiled, my place is too nice for a student, I spend too much, etc(I work off my ass in the summer to live comfortably during the school year). He drinks/Smokes/and eats my stuff, has not brought anything (minus a 6 pack of the cheapest local beer that I didnt even drink), and he never offers to give me cash. Today I sneaked a slightly smartass comment in our conversation and he picked up on I guess because offered me $5 (even though he had had $10-15 of food alone not to mention beers and smokes). I accepted his offer, and I guess he didnt think I would, because then he said he didnt have any money and he'd get me next time. I figure he comes over at least 5 times a week (and its not that really that I mind althought it does get intrusive at times). Each time he's here, what he eats drinks and smokes of mine usually adds up to around $10-15. We've only been back for 2 full weeks, so he has only cost me about $100-125 worth of groceries, beer, smokes so far. What can I say to stop this now? Up until now he has been a really good friend, I'm not sure if he lost money, owes someone or is having financial problems, so I dont want to ask him outright in a way that would really offend him and have it turn out that extinuating circumstances left him broke. I guess what I'm asking for is a way to tell him without offending him or making things awkward, that while he has been a good friend up until recently who I like watching a game here and there with, I cant have him come over daily, I cannot afford to feed him, and its ridicolous that he knows how much cigs/beer cost yet he consumes mine like I get them for free?
curiousnycgirl Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Is it possible his financial circumstances have changed somehow? Rather than going at him like his a cheap b@sta@rd why not ask him if he's ok. Tell him you've notice the change, and are wodnering if he's ok. Does he have a job? Was he relying on extra work during the break that fell through? Who knows? But if you want genuine friends, you need to be a genuine friend. Which means not jumping to all the worst conclusions.
blind_otter Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I'm sorry, I can't really relate. When I have a guest in my home I feel it's my place to entertain and feed them, I have never, ever demanded payment for the entertainment and food I provide. The very thought of doing that turns my stomach. I say establish some boundaries. I don't understand how people can "invite themselves over"....unless they just show up at your house....if he calls, say that you just want to spend time alone tonight or whatever. Explain to him that he is overstaying his welcome, and if he comes over regularly he is no longer entitled to the privileges of a guest.
Always Wrong Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Quit having everything ready when he shows up! Tell him to bring a case and you'll get the food, or something to that effect. Friends can't take advantage of you if you don't let them. And curiousnycgirl is right. Ask him if everythings OK. Nobodys perfect... generosity isn't standard equipment.
Ronni_W Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Rather than going at him like his a cheap b@sta@rd why not ask him if he's ok. Tell him you've notice the change, ...you need to be a genuine friend. Which means not jumping to all the worst conclusions. I agree with Curious. Genuine friendship also can withstand the inevitable differences of opinions and perceptions. But the important part here is that you're lacking assertive communication skills. You are at an excellent age to undertake to learn that. I know there are websites devoted to this aspect of personal development. Tell the guy everything that you appreciate about him and ALSO tell him that your financial circumstances do not allow you to entertain on a daily basis. Firmly stop him when he comments on your lifestyle. You can be humble and say something like, "Yeah, I've been fortunate to find work that pays me well...when I work my @ss off!" and then kinda throw in a laugh. If he keeps it up, just say you've already covered that once and will not talk about it again. If you can swing it, make it one day a week where he comes over (or for the "big" games or whatever). Be as generous as you can within your financial and emotional means. Offer to help him with his resume or suggest on-campus employment services or anything else that will assist his increasing his income.
Author NoChance Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 Is it possible his financial circumstances have changed somehow? Rather than going at him like his a cheap b@sta@rd why not ask him if he's ok. Tell him you've notice the change, and are wodnering if he's ok. Does he have a job? Was he relying on extra work during the break that fell through? Who knows? But if you want genuine friends, you need to be a genuine friend. Which means not jumping to all the worst conclusions. It is possible his financial circumstances have changed, but he hasnt said anything to me. How am I supposed to ask him? Uh Alex, I've noticed you wont even pay for your own stuff now, are having money problems? Even if he says yes, then what do I do? Its not like I have extra money to help him then. He doesnt have a job, that is part of the problem. Depending on the amount of time he spends at my place, he has plenty of time to work. I've talked to him about summer jobs before, and from what he says, it seems like he hasnt had a job for a long time, I'm pretty sure he's relying on handouts from Mom/Dad. I realize I need to be a genuine friend, which is why I havent said anything, I know what its like to not have money, which is why I work 50 hours a week in the summer.
Ronni_W Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I realize I need to be a genuine friend, which is why I havent said anything, No. A genuine friend would find the courage to talk about problems in the relationship honestly and compassionately, instead of just letting it fester into resentment and an ultimate BIG blow-up. From a 'personal responsibility' point of view, you owe it to yourself to ensure that you are not taken advantage of, or mis-used in any way. That requires assertiveness, which is the element that is most lacking here.
Author NoChance Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 I'm sorry, I can't really relate. When I have a guest in my home I feel it's my place to entertain and feed them, I have never, ever demanded payment for the entertainment and food I provide. The very thought of doing that turns my stomach. I say establish some boundaries. I don't understand how people can "invite themselves over"....unless they just show up at your house....if he calls, say that you just want to spend time alone tonight or whatever. Explain to him that he is overstaying his welcome, and if he comes over regularly he is no longer entitled to the privileges of a guest. In my group of friends, I do have the best apartment/comfortable couches so everyone always wants to come over to my place. I have no problem hosting almost daily and giving my friends food and drinks. That doesnt cost much and despite what you think I'm not thaat cheap. Alex is taking it to another level. I am a 20 year old college student who pays for his own tuition, books, rent, utlilities, cable/internet, cell, food. insurance, gas etc. I'm sorry but I cannot afford to give him half the $15 pizza I bought on a nightly basis, or if I buy a case of $30 beer I plan on drinking on the weekiend, its 3/4 gone from him snaking beers before the weekend comes around. We also both smoke, and the way he helps himself its like he thinks its ok for me to support his habit (at least $5 a day). The thought of asking payment from a friend turns your stomach? I'm sorry you must have never been a student, its not like he comes over has some coke and chips. He has $10-15 worth of stuff each day, and then comes over every day staying til late almost usually. Multiply that by a month, for a friend you've known for only a semester, and then see if it would still turn your stomach. I also would like to say I have never directly said to him you had x amount of stuff you owe me $10 bucks. But we are students, for everyone of my friends from what I've notcied there is a unwritten rule, if you cost someone something, you throw them a bill, or pay for them next time. He always offers, but never actually does. As a student, when he's gone through my entire fridge, I do tend to do a calculation of how much I have to spend on groceries now. Its also one think to come over and eat some food, its another to suggest going out to eat, and then pull the I have no money after I've already ordered my food deal. I've also noticed now he'll invite himself over saying something like "hey want to split a case of beer, I'll grab it on the way", only to show up empty handed saying something like the liquor store was closed (at 6 PM on a thurs) I have tried to establish boundries. He rarely does the pop in, but he always calls and says something like "Uh yeah I really wanted to watch x game, would it be ok if I was to come by for a bit?" Like the way he asks sounds so pathetic, its hard to say no. Plus I dont really want to have to make up a story every time he calls and I dont want him over because lying always catches up to you.
Author NoChance Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 Quit having everything ready when he shows up! Tell him to bring a case and you'll get the food, or something to that effect. Friends can't take advantage of you if you don't let them. And curiousnycgirl is right. Ask him if everythings OK. Nobodys perfect... generosity isn't standard equipment. I did a few nights ago, and the first thing he says when he comes over and 5 minutes have passed, is hey lets have a smoke session. No asking or suggesting, just saying what he wants to do. He knows I smoke a lot and that I cant go a whole evening with him sitting there and not having a smoke or two. You dont know how many times now, hes implied that he's bringing something only to show up empty handed with an excuse (liquor stores closed at weird hours, his debit card seems to have more errors than anyone in history) Everyone is saying to ask him if hes all right, how do I do that without offending him.
Author NoChance Posted January 13, 2008 Author Posted January 13, 2008 I agree with Curious. Genuine friendship also can withstand the inevitable differences of opinions and perceptions. But the important part here is that you're lacking assertive communication skills. You are at an excellent age to undertake to learn that. I know there are websites devoted to this aspect of personal development. Tell the guy everything that you appreciate about him and ALSO tell him that your financial circumstances do not allow you to entertain on a daily basis. Firmly stop him when he comments on your lifestyle. You can be humble and say something like, "Yeah, I've been fortunate to find work that pays me well...when I work my @ss off!" and then kinda throw in a laugh. If he keeps it up, just say you've already covered that once and will not talk about it again. If you can swing it, make it one day a week where he comes over (or for the "big" games or whatever). Be as generous as you can within your financial and emotional means. Offer to help him with his resume or suggest on-campus employment services or anything else that will assist his increasing his income. No. A genuine friend would find the courage to talk about problems in the relationship honestly and compassionately, instead of just letting it fester into resentment and an ultimate BIG blow-up. From a 'personal responsibility' point of view, you owe it to yourself to ensure that you are not taken advantage of, or mis-used in any way. That requires assertiveness, which is the element that is most lacking here. I am lacking assertive communication skills, that has always been a big problem for me in many facts of life, and I would love to overcome it, if it was easy as just saying it. While he is a nice guy sometimes I really want to say so much I just dont know how to do it without making everything werid. Like for example, the next time he comes over, and says something in effect that lets me know he's about to help himself to my beers/smokes, what do I say? I may be wrong, but I just get the feeling he thinks that because I'm more finacially secure than him, its ok for me to cover his costs. Its easy for him to make a comment about how my Dad must be rich, when he doesnt know that every Sat/Sun for the summer I showed up to work at 6AM while he was probably still sleeping . I talked to him about jobs i've had and how easy it is to get a decent paying job. From what I gather, he has no interest in getting a job any time soon.
JCD Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 You are afraid to be assertive with him because you fear he might not be your friend anymore. Would a real friend use you like that? No. So he is not really your friend but someone you cling to for your own insecurities, etc. So, the next time he calls you and sounds all pathetic, you tell him how it is. Either he comes and brings his own food/cigs or he can be alone. In the real world, nobody is looking out for you but you. Do not lend people money, do not become the rescuer. The best you can do is to guide people along the right path by pointing out to them that they need to become responsible for their own lives. Teach them how to fish and don't give them fish or the saying goes. Btw, I've learned this lesson when I lend seven hundred bucks to a coworker who I thought was my friend and would pay me back and he still hasn't while he been saying he will for months. Learn from my mistakes and don't allow people to take advantage of your good will.
Ronni_W Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) I am lacking assertive communication skills, that has always been a big problem for me ... I would love to overcome it, if it was easy as just saying it. Why would you choose to not learn effective, productive life skills just because it requires effort and practice? You will encounter many more, and much more serious, problems throughout your life if you make the choice now to not take an active role in expressing your likes, dislikes and preferences. A passive personality cannot meet its own needs, ends up being used and abused in all kinds of situations, and generally just is a bystander who has no control over its own existence. You are at such a good age to choose to be the master of your own experiences and destiny, rather than become a victim of circumstance and other people's whims and fancies. Edited January 13, 2008 by Ronni_W
Ronni_W Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 ...the next time he comes over, and says ... he's about to help himself to my beers/smokes, what do I say? You are missing, from this thread, all the spots where people are suggesting specific things for you to say, that both gets your point across and comes off as kind and sympathetic. If you're interested, go back and check. You say, in your own words, something like: "Look man, I really enjoy your company and I like <this> about you and <that> about you but WE cannot keep our relationship MUTUAL if BOTH of us don't chip in for our entertainment expenses. Our friendship will be unequal, I am going to end up feeling resentful and WE will not make it as friends. I want to avoid that, if WE can. This has nothing to do with my parents' wealth or my own. This is about OUR FRIENDSHIP and how I expect to be treated by my friends." Honest and not unkind; inclusive and not blaming; calm and rational; not frustrated and angry. It really does take effort to start thinking and talking in terms of "I feel <used, ignored, resentful>" and "My take on this is _______" and "What I need here is ________." He is using you because your passive nature is allowing it. And as long as you allow it, he will not believe that anything is "really" wrong -- it'll always just be something that you kinda mention in off-handed ways, once in a while.
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