michaelk Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Ok folks. No one is using a need for validation as an excuse. It doesnt' justify anything. The purpose of the thread is to understand what a need for validation is, because it is a motivator for some affairs. Yes, exactly! and when "validation" is used in the context of reasons for cheating, then "I was being greedy" should almost follow in the same breath. I don't see what needing validation has to do with greed. Selfishness, definitely! Would the H that said he needed validation be wiling to explore with his BS new ways for finding validation that don't include stepping out of the boundaries of their marriage? (providing they are staying together) Really, you've missed the point here. Go back to Cobra's excellent explanation of who can provide validation and who can't. If the WS no longer holds the BS in any esteem, then it doesn't matter what the BS does. They simply cannot provide what the WS feels is missing.
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Simple. Her husband cannot validate her. He is weak... his value is low. Think, who can validate you more. You wonder why a man may seek validation from another woman? When he percieves your value to be low... you can no longer validate him. Just remember that looks are only a part of value... Does that make sense? Dang it Cobra, why didn't you post this on my thread about "Extra effort in the bedroom"?!? :D Seriously, this goes a long way toward answering my question. I really hope you will expand on this post. Is there anything the BS can do to "raise" his/her value to the WS so that the cheating won't happen? And is it even right or necessary for anyone to EXPECT their spouse (or anyone else) to "validate" them?
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Why is this all on the BS's head? I mean, the WS is broken inside if they need THAT much validation and chooses to go somewhere else to get the important needs met with someone else. NOTHING a BS does or doesn't do is good enough. If someone wants to cheat, they will and nothing will stop them. I don't understand why afew people here on LS always point the fingers at the BS as it's THEIR fault the cheater went outside the marriage. People have to be responsible for their own happiness too and can't rely on others to make them happy. NOONE can meet every single need of their spouse, but it is crucial to meet the important ones that count.
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Why is this all on the BS's head? I mean, the WS is broken inside if they need THAT much validation and chooses to go somewhere else to get the important needs met with someone else. NOTHING a BS does or doesn't do is good enough. If someone wants to cheat, they will and nothing will stop them. I don't understand why afew people here on LS always point the fingers at the BS as it's THEIR fault the cheater went outside the marriage. People have to be responsible for their own happiness too and can't rely on others to make them happy. NOONE can meet every single need of their spouse, but it is crucial to meet the important ones that count. I think you're overreacting, WWIU. I asked if there was anything the BS could do to prevent his/her S from cheating - specifically, to "raise his/her value" (in response to Cobra's point). In no way did I claim that it was the BS's FAULT his/her S was cheating. If my marriage was in danger of infidelity, and I still loved my H, I would damn well want to know if there's anything I could do to prevent him from straying.
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I'm not overreacting, I was just stating my opinion on this, that's all. My point really is, if one is in a good marriage and happy, but something inside of the CS is "off", or he/she has some issues, they seem to come out and be woken up when temptation is there, the lines get crossed and vows and thoughts of the BS get thrown out of the window. If my marriage was in danger of infidelity, and I still loved my H, I would damn well want to know if there's anything I could do to prevent him from straying. Oh I agree with you there 100%! Problem is, many WS's don't tell their wife/husband "hey i'm unhappy and about to cheat" if they did say that, chances are the A's would never happen in the first place.
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Oh I agree with you there 100%! Problem is, many WS's don't tell their wife/husband "hey i'm unhappy and about to cheat" if they did say that, chances are the A's would never happen in the first place. This is something I struggle with - trying to understand how a BS could NOT be aware that something was wrong in the M. My God, you go to bed every night and wake up every morning with this person - how could you NOT know?? Almost all of the WS's who post on this board claim that they tried, over and over again, to approach their S and do their part and etc.etc.etc. to get their needs met... and no response (or a negative, discounting one) from their S. So they assume the BS just doesn't care and they go off and get it elsewhere... their "validation." Are you saying that in most cases, they're lying about this?
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Some are good at lying. I hate to bring FF into this, but just look at her situation, she said herself that on the outside she can pretend everything is great and acts like nothing is wrong. Also, if one spouse really is happy and is sort of (I hate to say clueless because tha'ts not what it is) it's more that they COMPLETELY trust their spouse and thought of them cheating never enters their head. Having complete faith in someone. Confused9 is another, I mean her fiance up and left her, saying he was miserable with her. She had no clue, thought he was as happy as she was, all ready to get married. Problem is, he said one thing and did another behind her back. Why? Because he has issues. This is why I believe whether it be pure selfishness, or another issue inside the WS, if they keep it to themselves, hide it and feel the need to get attention from others, whether it be an EA or a PA. I bet it's abit of both, or one case or another, I don't know. They may feel the BS doesn't care, but chances are, they didn't bother to ask, too lazy to ask or they themselves just figured the attention from someone else is/was harmless. (Sorry if my wording may be off tonight, I have a killer headache, so I hope I make abit of sense.)
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 My God, you go to bed every night and wake up every morning with this person - how could you NOT know?? This is a good question though and maybe it depends on the couple. Maybe some don't know their spouse as well as they should, or life in general got in the way, they're abit out of touch in the sense of being in sync with eachother. This is why communication is sooo important in a marriage and not assume.
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Some are good at lying... on the outside she can pretend everything is great and acts like nothing is wrong... Also...they COMPLETELY trust their spouse and thought of them cheating never enters their head. Having complete faith in someone... (Sorry if my wording may be off tonight, I have a killer headache, so I hope I make abit of sense.) OK, gotcha. This makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for clarifying. And sorry about your headache! Hope I didn't cause it. This is why communication is sooo important in a marriage and not assume. Amen!!
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 OK, gotcha. This makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for clarifying. And sorry about your headache! Hope I didn't cause it. Amen!! No you didn't cause it, silly. My H did! Nah, it's that time of the month unfortunately. (Sorry to those who had to read that...)
michaelk Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Why is this all on the BS's head? I mean, the WS is broken inside if they need THAT much validation and chooses to go somewhere else to get the important needs met with someone else. NOTHING a BS does or doesn't do is good enough. If someone wants to cheat, they will and nothing will stop them. I don't understand why afew people here on LS always point the fingers at the BS as it's THEIR fault the cheater went outside the marriage. People have to be responsible for their own happiness too and can't rely on others to make them happy. NOONE can meet every single need of their spouse, but it is crucial to meet the important ones that count. Who said it's all on the BS's head? Every time someone starts a thread discussing the psychology of people who cheat, it gets painted as an attempt to make excuses, blame the BS, say that cheating isn't bad, etc. etc. The fact is it's on BOTH partner's heads. If one spouse no longer holds the other in enough esteem to get positive enforcement from being with them, there's a fundamental problem that needs to be fixed with or without cheating in the discussion. It could be that one spouse is 'broken' because they are relying too much on their partner for their sense of self-worth. But everyone gets SOMETHING positive from their spouse, so you can't say that the answer is to lose all reliance on your partner for your happiness. It's certainly possible that the loss of esteem was due to something that the 'low value' spouse did, or some way in which they changed. Or it could be as simple as them no longer making the effort to provide the desired positive stimulus to their partner.
Planofool Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 This is something I struggle with - trying to understand how a BS could NOT be aware that something was wrong in the M. My God, you go to bed every night and wake up every morning with this person - how could you NOT know?? Almost all of the WS's who post on this board claim that they tried, over and over again, to approach their S and do their part and etc.etc.etc. to get their needs met... and no response (or a negative, discounting one) from their S. So they assume the BS just doesn't care and they go off and get it elsewhere... their "validation." Are you saying that in most cases, they're lying about this? While my wife was having her EA we were having date night once a week, hugging for 20 seconds when I would get home. Our sex life was fantastic, and we were getting along better than we had in years. Was this signs that my wife was having an affair?
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Who said it's all on the BS's head? Every time someone starts a thread discussing the psychology of people who cheat, it gets painted as an attempt to make excuses, blame the BS, say that cheating isn't bad, etc. etc. Some people here on LS feel that alot of the blame too falls on the shoulder of the BS, that CS chose to cheat on them. BS is partially responsible for the problems occuring in the marriage, just like the CS is as well. HOW they both handle is what counts. I am not one of those who feel the cheating is the BS's fault, that's why I gave my 2 cents worth to what OB said earlier. The spouse who chose to cheat is at fault for the affair, not the BS.
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 While my wife was having her EA we were having date night once a week, hugging for 20 seconds when I would get home. Our sex life was fantastic, and we were getting along better than we had in years. Was this signs that my wife was having an affair? You got me, Plano. I have no clue. Maybe you just picked the wrong gal to marry??
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Some people here on LS feel that alot of the blame too falls on the shoulder of the BS, that CS chose to cheat on them. BS is partially responsible for the problems occuring in the marriage, just like the CS is as well. HOW they both handle is what counts. I am not one of those who feel the cheating is the BS's fault, that's why I gave my 2 cents worth to what OB said earlier. The spouse who chose to cheat is at fault for the affair, not the BS. OK, but I think michaelk's point (and I agree with him) is that blaming and pointing fingers always seems to end up in these threads where posters are actually trying to FIGURE OUT what went wrong... to get beyond the blame-fest and approach real understanding about cheating, and why it happens - for the ultimate purpose (I'm assuming) of preventing it from happening again, or at all, ... or just deciding what the h*ll to do next.
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 But we're all disagreeing and stating our thoughts respectfully...That's okay. Fact still is, if the cheating spouse is unhappy, talk about it, tell your wife/husband so together the marriage can be fixed, or decide together to end it, or separate for a little while. The CS takes matters into their own hands and makes the choice selfishly by cheating and maybe in hopes that escaping into fantasyland will make the marriage better or bareable. I dunnooo... You got me, Plano. I have no clue. Maybe you just picked the wrong gal to marry?? I don't know either. Maybe she was just selfish and wanted to enjoy having two men.
michaelk Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 OK, but I think michaelk's point (and I agree with him) is that blaming and pointing fingers always seems to end up in these threads where posters are actually trying to FIGURE OUT what went wrong... to get beyond the blame-fest and approach real understanding about cheating, and why it happens - for the ultimate purpose (I'm assuming) of preventing it from happening again, or at all, ... or just deciding what the h*ll to do next. Yes, exactly OpenBook! But we're all disagreeing and stating our thoughts respectfully...That's okay. Yes, it's fine for people to disagree, as long as they're respectful. But when every discussion gets reduced to the same basic argument, are we really shedding any light on anything?
Planofool Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Is it possible that while they are in the EA it is actually helping them cope with their marriage? They get their valadation elsewhere and everything else at home. In my case my wife is getting all the day to day issues taken care of by me and getting her ego boosted and emotional needs from the OM. Then as icing on the cake she gets to have sex and affection from me at home. The OM is miles away but just the click of the cell phone gets her all the valadation or ego stroking she needs. We get along great at home and she can call him to be told how beautiful she is and so on. So she has the best of both worlds. Does this make sense?
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Is it possible that while they are in the EA it is actually helping them cope with their marriage? They get their valadation elsewhere and everything else at home. In my case my wife is getting all the day to day issues taken care of by me and getting her ego boosted and emotional needs from the OM. Then as icing on the cake she gets to have sex and affection from me at home. The OM is miles away but just the click of the cell phone gets her all the valadation or ego stroking she needs. We get along great at home and she can call him to be told how beautiful she is and so on. So she has the best of both worlds. Does this make sense? No, frankly it doesn't. It sounds like she's using you, and using the OM as well. Why can't she get her emotional / ego-stroking needs met at home? Does she need to get it from more than one person in order to feel validated?
michaelk Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Is it possible that while they are in the EA it is actually helping them cope with their marriage? They get their valadation elsewhere and everything else at home. In my case my wife is getting all the day to day issues taken care of by me and getting her ego boosted and emotional needs from the OM. Then as icing on the cake she gets to have sex and affection from me at home. The OM is miles away but just the click of the cell phone gets her all the valadation or ego stroking she needs. We get along great at home and she can call him to be told how beautiful she is and so on. So she has the best of both worlds. Does this make sense? It makes sense in that I understand what you are describing. Not in the sense that it's a good idea. The problem is that if she's getting her emotional needs met by the OM, and only her physical needs taken care of at home, eventually she's going to want to be with him. After all, she can get the physical things she needs from any number of places, but she's going to associate that good feeling with him, and as time goes on she's going to become more and more attached to him. Ultimately, she'll find herself wanting to be with him so much that it doesn't matter how good a friendship you two have. Taken from another angle, if all your W is looking for is someone to tell her she looks beautiful, why does she need an OM for that? That seems like a need you could easily fulfill. Why aren't you? Or is it a matter of her no longer accepting your compliments (i.e. you have 'low perceived value')? If this is the case, then it doesn't bode well for the marriage long term, because if she doesn't value you enough to get validation from you, why wouldn't she leave to be with someone she values more?
marlena Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I see nothing wrong with validation. Everyone needs to be loved and valued. As children, we seek validation from our parents and peers. As adults, we seek validation from our spouse,family, friends,employers etc.. We owe it to the people we love. To me, anyone who feels that he/she is being devalued by a spouse, has a right to seek it elsewhere. It's only when validation becomes a compulsion that it becomes a problem.
TMCM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I guess it's human nature that the majority of us want to know whether an affair was something that we contributed to or whether it was a product of an internal issue of the cheating spouse. The problem is that even if we know for certain what the cause of the affair was, it really doesn't answer the question of whether or not both spouses want to continue being married to each other after the affair has been exposed, which INMNSHO is the most important question of all.
OpenBook Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 I guess it's human nature that the majority of us want to know whether an affair was something that we contributed to or whether it was a product of an internal issue of the cheating spouse. The problem is that even if we know for certain what the cause of the affair was, it really doesn't answer the question of whether or not both spouses want to continue being married to each other after the affair has been exposed, which INMNSHO is the most important question of all. Maybe not, but that knowledge could certainly help us make an informed decision about whether to stay in the M or not.
TMCM Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 Maybe not, but that knowledge could certainly help us make an informed decision about whether to stay in the M or not. The problem is that we may never know the answer and then what? what criteria do we then use in helping us to make the decision to either continue with the marriage or end it?
Planofool Posted January 13, 2008 Posted January 13, 2008 No, frankly it doesn't. It sounds like she's using you, and using the OM as well. Why can't she get her emotional / ego-stroking needs met at home? Does she need to get it from more than one person in order to feel validated? She has been playing with the OM emotions for 26 yrs. I need to ask why she can't get them met at home. It makes sense in that I understand what you are describing. Not in the sense that it's a good idea. The problem is that if she's getting her emotional needs met by the OM, and only her physical needs taken care of at home, eventually she's going to want to be with him. After all, she can get the physical things she needs from any number of places, but she's going to associate that good feeling with him, and as time goes on she's going to become more and more attached to him. Ultimately, she'll find herself wanting to be with him so much that it doesn't matter how good a friendship you two have. Taken from another angle, if all your W is looking for is someone to tell her she looks beautiful, why does she need an OM for that? That seems like a need you could easily fulfill. Why aren't you? Or is it a matter of her no longer accepting your compliments (i.e. you have 'low perceived value')? If this is the case, then it doesn't bode well for the marriage long term, because if she doesn't value you enough to get validation from you, why wouldn't she leave to be with someone she values more? Very good points. I have spent 24 yrs telling her she is beautiful and that I love her. I don't know what else to do. She says either I don't do it enough or I don't mean it. She doesn't have to go outside the house for validation. Her first husband was a romantic and wrote her songs .....he just couldn't keep his pecker in his pants when it came to other women. The OM is quite the slick talker and wooed her for 2 and a half months this time. I am not a romantic or slick talker and I can't write romantic songs....but I have been able to keep my pecker in my pants when it comes to other women.
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