Semantics perhaps, but it's a problem

[reservoirdog1]

I don't know if I'm looking for advice, or just to get this off my chest. Thoughts would be welcome.

 

GF and I first started dating in spring '06. After 4 months, I felt like things were moving faster than I was comfortable with. We had some disagreements over what I saw at the time as controlling behaviour. In any event, I didn't feel comfortable, so I broke it off with her.

 

We were apart for two months. During that time, she went on a couple of meet-and-greet type dates, and I ended up sleeping (once) with a woman from out of town who I knew socially (it wasn't something that was premeditated while I was still with GF). My take on things was that it was over between me and GF, we were broken up, end of story. Anyway, after being apart for two months, GF and I met up as "friends" (her request). We both behaved ourselves that time, but the chemistry was still there in spades. We got back together and have been back together ever since. Three months ago, we moved in together.

 

Very shortly after we got back together, she asked me if I'd slept with anyone else during our breakup. I told her that I had. (I could have denied, of course, but I don't do that very easily, and she's highly intuitive -- shockingly so, at times.) The fact that I did sleep with somebody else while we were apart has been a major obstacle to happiness.

 

Early this morning, we were both awake. (I was stressing about work stuff, and she's been feeling down for the last day or so, and when she's feeling down, she starts thinking about negative things from the past.) What came out was that she feels that I've never apologized to her for "cheating" on her or "betraying" her. She also feels that I'm relying on a "technicality" to avoid apologizing for that.

 

She and I have both been cheated on in past relationships and I'm well acquainted with the feelings associated with that. I know that what I did when we were broken up hurt her, and I feel *****ty about having hurt her. If I'd thought at the time that we were just on a temporary break, I would never have slept with somebody else. She's maintained ever since we got back together that she viewed it as a "break" and figured we'd get back together. Over the ensuing year and a bit, I've acknowledged that what I did hurt her, and I've aplogized repeatedly for having hurt her. And I actually am sorry for that. She's said that the hurt she feels is the same as that from being cheated on, and I don't have a problem acknowledging that.

 

But -- and this is the knot -- I cannot bring myself to call what I did "cheating", and apologize for having "cheated" on her. Because I don't think I did that.

 

I don't want to get into an endless debate with her over this issue, because I don't see any good coming from it. Her feelings are her feelings, end of story. But for this relationship to work, the issue needs to be addressed.

 

I admit, I'm feeling a bit like Ross from Friends right now: "WE WERE ON A BREAK!!!!"

 

So, my choices are:

 

1) Take a deep breath, tell her I'm sorry for cheating on her, even though I don't believe that's what I did. Which perhaps some people can do, but I'm not sure I can, given my views on what happened.

 

2) Tell her that I can't put the "cheating" label on it, but apologize again for hurting her, etc.

 

It's impossible for anybody out there to choose 1 or 2 on the basis of a quick precis of my story. But if anybody has any thoughts, musings, etc. that they'd like to share, I'd appreciate it. Anybody been through anything remotely similar? Any words of wisdom? Am I getting caught up in semantics? Am I being a dunce here? Or hell, WAS what I did "cheating"?

 

Thanks for listening to me ramble, everybody.

Edited January 9, 2008 by reservoirdog1

[ElvenPriestess]

Ok, here's the first thing. If she had a question of you sleeping with anyone before getting back together, she should have asked you at the first meeting as friends, not after you two moved in together. Now on rather or not it's cheating. Are you absolutely 100% sure you felt you two were through and would never be together again? And when you did get together was it unexpected and unplanned? If these things are the case then it can not be considered cheating.

 

Did you two decide to take A break, meaning cool off with space and come back later when things were more sorted out? Not an official break up? If so then it COULD be considered cheating.

 

But the real thing I want to point out again is these things needed to be addressed before she got back with you. It isn't fair to move in with you and THEN ask you.

 

Why does she care so much? Why does the label matter so much? It doesn't. The fact is you slept with some one. The label you put on it doesn't matter. What she needs to realize the importance of is this. Is she the only one you want to be with? Do you ever reflect on the girl you slept with? Are you over it? Are you with the only person you want to have sex with right now? Are you happy? Those things matter. Not the label. And the focus on the label is petty at this point.

 

Again, answer to me if you want or just for yourself the things I asked you. This will help you answer what it is classified as. But in the end, it's not the label she's hurt over. It's the action. And she needs to realize that you saying it's what she wants to hear you say it is won't change what's happened.

[nicki]

I think you can deal with her hurt feelings without putting a "cheating" label on it.

 

You DID NOT cheat on her. You two were broken up, free to date and sleep with others. End of story.

 

Her hurt feelings most likely stem from the fact that you were intimate with someone else. That's jealousy. Sometimes it can be easier just to hang that feeling on "cheating" if one isn't good at discerning their feelings.

 

It sounds like she is making a judgment on your character because she is uncomfortable with her feelings and is confused. She judges because she doesn't want to take the blame for your BREAKUP. Maybe she's still in denial about what it actually was.

 

And maybe she doesn't think she has the right to be upset about you sleeping with someone else when you were clearly free to do so, but she feels she has the right to be upset about you "cheating," hence the whole mislabeling about you cheating.

 

And she may want validation from you that you really do prefer her and that the other woman is not a threat to your relationship (or you wanting any other woman but her.)

 

It's a woman thing. I would reassure her that you love her, that you were miserable without her during those two months, that you slept with someone else out of loneliness, etc....In other words, share YOUR feelings about what was going on with you during that time.

 

Let her know that she is the only woman for you, and that the breakup showed you that. Tell her what you said here about seeing her after the break up and how the passion was still there in spades.

 

Tell her you are so glad that you two found eachother again.

 

It sounds like a simple case of fear that she could lose you again, or perhaps be easily replaced.

 

So, don't admit to cheating. You didn't do that. Just refer to it as when you slept with someone else during the breakup. Keep the focus on how your girlfriend felt about that then and what she is worried about now....and reassure her.

 

I'll bet that's all she wants. And to know that it's way better with her in the bedroom, and that no other woman can hold a candle to her, that you love her so very much and missed her more than life during those two months and just want to move forward, together....that kind of stuff.

 

You sound like a good guy, straight up and sensitive.

[EYECANDY000]

I pick option 1 & 2. Even though you dont think that you cheated, which you didnt, I think it will defuse the situation.

[ElvenPriestess]

I pick option 1 & 2. Even though you dont think that you cheated, which you didnt, I think it will defuse the situation.

 

But even if it does he will be giving into her, and I think she's being too controlling on this. He said he's sorry, she needs to let it go or move on, not drag it out. This controlling thing will get worse if he gives in and says what she wants to hear. Then any future problems she will expect the same results.

[Kasan]

My take on this? You didn't cheat on your break, however, what are your expectations for this relationship?

 

How serious are you, because as I see it, you have apologized, I am sure profusely for a year and that isn't enough in her book.

 

I am sure that your "cheating" (in her mind) is bringing up a lot of bad memories which is her problem not yours, which is why I bring up how serious is this relationship and where do you see it going.

 

If you are truly serious then maybe, for the sake of peace you apologize and yes "claim you cheated." It wouldn't be the first time in a relationship that a partner took the blame and apologized for something that they weren't guilty of.

 

On the other hand, why can't your GF let this go? Why is it so important that she be right?

[Mz. Pixie]

IMO you didn't cheat on her- you guys were broken up.

 

What about "I know that you feel that I cheated on you when we were broken up and I'm truly sorry for hurting you in this way" Do you think she'd be satisfied with that??

[ElvenPriestess]

 

On the other hand, why can't your GF let this go? Why is it so important that she be right?

 

That's what I'm saying, I think it's a self esteem issue mixed with a control problem.

[Art_Critic]

IMO you didn't cheat on her- you guys were broken up.

 

What about "I know that you feel that I cheated on you when we were broken up and I'm truly sorry for hurting you in this way" Do you think she'd be satisfied with that??

 

Mz Pizie is right and I think her option is a good one..

 

One thing is for sure.. you said your GF is intuitive.. Well if you apologize for cheating on her and you don't believe you cheated then she will sense that you are just telling her what she wants to hear and it will make things worse.

[tanbark813]

I would definitely go with #2. It seems like a power thing especially given that she's been controlling in the past. If you label it as cheating then she'll feel like she has the upper hand. Her insecurities are getting the best of her.

 

I had a gf a few years back who had really conservative parents. She asked me to take out my eyebrow piercing (bear with me ) whenever we were around them. We got into a few arguments over it but I gave in and took it out. But to this day I kick myself for not standing my ground. Yes, it was just something superficial and trivial but it also represented who I am. I sacrificed a part of who I am to give her the control she wanted and I would bet that she lost a little respect for me either consciously or subconsciously.

 

But in your case it's something real and meaningful, not just some stupid piercing. So, IMO, it's all the more important that you stand your ground about what you believe. I don't think you should apologize for something you don't think you did.

[ElvenPriestess]

I would definitely go with #2. It seems like a power thing especially given that she's been controlling in the past. If you label it as cheating then she'll feel like she has the upper hand. Her insecurities are getting the best of her.

 

I had a gf a few years back who had really conservative parents. She asked me to take out my eyebrow piercing (bear with me ) whenever we were around them. We got into a few arguments over it but I gave in and took it out. But to this day I kick myself for not standing my ground. Yes, it was just something superficial and trivial but it also represented who I am. I sacrificed a part of who I am to give her the control she wanted and I would bet that she lost a little respect for me either consciously or subconsciously.

 

But in your case it's something real and meaningful, not just some stupid piercing. So, IMO, it's all the more important that you stand your ground about what you believe. I don't think you should apologize for something you don't think you did.

 

I miss my two eyebrow piercings.

 

You see this is a control issue, you have many of us telling you this reservoirdog1. It's a fact.

[Cobra_X30]

So, my choices are:

 

1) Take a deep breath, tell her I'm sorry for cheating on her, even though I don't believe that's what I did. Which perhaps some people can do, but I'm not sure I can, given my views on what happened.

 

2) Tell her that I can't put the "cheating" label on it, but apologize again for hurting her, etc.

 

It's impossible for anybody out there to choose 1 or 2 on the basis of a quick precis of my story. But if anybody has any thoughts, musings, etc. that they'd like to share, I'd appreciate it. Anybody been through anything remotely similar? Any words of wisdom? Am I getting caught up in semantics? Am I being a dunce here? Or hell, WAS what I did "cheating"?

 

Thanks for listening to me ramble, everybody.

 

Honestly... at some point it doesnt matter if you think it's cheating or not. She does. Can you validate her feelings and allow her to move on? Or is she not important enough to you?

 

Whats that old saying Dr Phil always uses about bieng right or bieng happy... ah... something like that anyway!

[tanbark813]

Whats that old saying Dr Phil always uses about bieng right or bieng happy... ah... something like that anyway!

 

"You can be right or you can be happy."

 

The mantra of the weak man.

[ElvenPriestess]

Honestly... at some point it doesnt matter if you think it's cheating or not. She does. Can you validate her feelings and allow her to move on? Or is she not important enough to you?

 

Whats that old saying Dr Phil always uses about bieng right or bieng happy... ah... something like that anyway!

 

Validate feelings that are misplaced? That I have to disagree with. He's suffering her manipulative and controlling tactics. It's not right. And validating this cheating bit validates the improper handling of this she's doing.

[Cobra_X30]

Validate feelings that are misplaced? That I have to disagree with. He's suffering her manipulative and controlling tactics. It's not right. And validating this cheating bit validates the improper handling of this she's doing.

 

No... he failed to define the terms of thier seperation. Obviously it was temporary otherwise they would not be together right now... and it doesnt bloody matter what his intentions were at the time. Actions speak where intent doesnt.

 

So, lets take a look at his actions.

 

Fact. He dumped her. Fact. He then got together with another girl. Fact. He then started dating her again.

 

He created this mess... he needs to fix it.

 

I'm not telling you that your a bad guy RD, your actually a really good guy. But you made a mess of things and now its your job to fix it.

[Cobra_X30]

"You can be right or you can be happy."

 

The mantra of the weak man.

 

Complete foolishness. Even the strong can sometimes be wrong. Weakness is having too much pride to admit it.

[Trialbyfire]

reservoirdog, in order to understand your situation better, can you maybe give us the wording of how you broke it off with her? I can't decide if this is some form of misunderstanding or a control issue.

 

I say this because you believed it was a permanent break and she believed it was temporary break.

 

I guess the other question would be, what was her response when you asked her why she dated on a temporary break? Wouldn't this also be considered a violation of space requirements?

[tanbark813]

Complete foolishness. Even the strong can sometimes be wrong. Weakness is having too much pride to admit it.

 

How many times have you heard a woman use that credo?

[Cobra_X30]

How many times have you heard a woman use that credo?

 

Hmmm... is the implication that woman = weak?

 

I agree with the idea that you shoudnt have to bend your neck, bow and scrape, despite bieng right, just to keep the peace.

 

But there is something to be said for bieng able to understand where someone else is coming from... and sometimes doing not what feels good for you... but instead for them.

[tanbark813]

Hmmm... is the implication that woman = weak?

 

Not at all. Usually the context in which that saying is used is a man saying it implying that you should always just consider yourself in the wrong and submit. Always submitting is just as bad as never submitting (worse, IMO, but that's a bit of a tangent).

 

I've heard Dr. Phil, male comedians, male LS posters use it but not once have I ever heard a female use it. I'm just a fan of balanced relationships.

[reservoirdog1]

Thanks for the replies, everybody.

 

No... he failed to define the terms of thier seperation. Obviously it was temporary otherwise they would not be together right now... and it doesnt bloody matter what his intentions were at the time. Actions speak where intent doesnt.

 

No, it definitely wasn't "obviously" temporary. I know myself well enough to know that, if we'd simply been taking a breather to sort things out, I would not have slept with somebody else. Which is only my assurance, I realize, but I have a pretty anal retentive filter through which I judge whether it's okay to sleep with somebody. A few years ago I'd been on a couple of dates with a woman, no sex, not even remotely discussed the idea of exclusivity, and had two opportunities during that time to sleep with other women. I declined them both because I was directing my energies towards building something with the first woman, and just because I didn't feel good about it.

 

I'm not telling you that your a bad guy RD, your actually a really good guy. But you made a mess of things and now its your job to fix it.

I agree with that. That's why I'm here.

 

I say this because you believed it was a permanent break and she believed it was temporary break.

 

I guess the other question would be, what was her response when you asked her why she dated on a temporary break? Wouldn't this also be considered a violation of space requirements?

 

So I understand it, she "believed" it was temporary because she felt, in her gut or intuitively, that I'd come back to her. But I don't think there was any doubt that I considered the relationship to be over, and not just on "pause".

 

Actually, I've not raised with her the issue of her couple of dates during the break in a long while. I can't recall what her answer was at the time.

[Trialbyfire]

So I understand it, she "believed" it was temporary because she felt, in her gut or intuitively, that I'd come back to her. But I don't think there was any doubt that I considered the relationship to be over, and not just on "pause".

Gut or instinct isn't sufficient to warrant a harsh label of cheating.

 

Actually, I've not raised with her the issue of her couple of dates during the break in a long while. I can't recall what her answer was at the time.

I would readdress this with her, at the time you discuss which option you choose.

 

Myself, in your shoes, I would pick option 2, because her intuition or gut instinct, doesn't trump anything, that appears to be clearly defined.

 

You are not responsible for her gut or instinct, if it's not expressed to you. This is a knee-jerk emotional insecurity issue, one that she needs to address.

[Cobra_X30]

Thanks for the replies, everybody.

No, it definitely wasn't "obviously" temporary. I know myself well enough to know that, if we'd simply been taking a breather to sort things out, I would not have slept with somebody else. Which is only my assurance, I realize, but I have a pretty anal retentive filter through which I judge whether it's okay to sleep with somebody. A few years ago I'd been on a couple of dates with a woman, no sex, not even remotely discussed the idea of exclusivity, and had two opportunities during that time to sleep with other women. I declined them both because I was directing my energies towards building something with the first woman, and just because I didn't feel good about it. .

 

Look, we both know that this is true. However, you can't prove it... and your actions seem like a guy that just wants to explore his options.

 

Now, your GF has already been through a bad relationship with a cheating SO. Honestly, thats going to make it even harder for her to trust your intentions... because what you did reminds her of him.

 

You knew her baggage ahead of time right?

 

So, can you tell me with any accuracy why she feels the way she does? Even if it makes no rational sense to you?

 

When you can do that I think your starting on the path to resolving this.

 

So I understand it, she "believed" it was temporary because she felt, in her gut or intuitively, that I'd come back to her. But I don't think there was any doubt that I considered the relationship to be over, and not just on "pause".

 

Actually, I've not raised with her the issue of her couple of dates during the break in a long while. I can't recall what her answer was at the time.

 

I'm thinking that she isnt using this as some kind of emotional blackmail.

 

I believe she is associating your actions with emotional injuries she has received in the past. So she is doing this out of fear and insecurity.

 

On some level she just wants reassurance that you regret it and wont do it again. And yes... it may come up again and again until the insecurity and fear go away.

 

Does that all seem plausible?

[serial muse]

I think you can deal with her hurt feelings without putting a "cheating" label on it.

 

You DID NOT cheat on her. You two were broken up, free to date and sleep with others. End of story.

 

Her hurt feelings most likely stem from the fact that you were intimate with someone else. That's jealousy. Sometimes it can be easier just to hang that feeling on "cheating" if one isn't good at discerning their feelings.

 

It sounds like she is making a judgment on your character because she is uncomfortable with her feelings and is confused. She judges because she doesn't want to take the blame for your BREAKUP. Maybe she's still in denial about what it actually was.

 

And maybe she doesn't think she has the right to be upset about you sleeping with someone else when you were clearly free to do so, but she feels she has the right to be upset about you "cheating," hence the whole mislabeling about you cheating.

 

And she may want validation from you that you really do prefer her and that the other woman is not a threat to your relationship (or you wanting any other woman but her.)

 

It's a woman thing. I would reassure her that you love her, that you were miserable without her during those two months, that you slept with someone else out of loneliness, etc....In other words, share YOUR feelings about what was going on with you during that time.

 

Let her know that she is the only woman for you, and that the breakup showed you that. Tell her what you said here about seeing her after the break up and how the passion was still there in spades.

 

Tell her you are so glad that you two found eachother again.

 

It sounds like a simple case of fear that she could lose you again, or perhaps be easily replaced.

 

So, don't admit to cheating. You didn't do that. Just refer to it as when you slept with someone else during the breakup. Keep the focus on how your girlfriend felt about that then and what she is worried about now....and reassure her.

 

I'll bet that's all she wants. And to know that it's way better with her in the bedroom, and that no other woman can hold a candle to her, that you love her so very much and missed her more than life during those two months and just want to move forward, together....that kind of stuff.

 

You sound like a good guy, straight up and sensitive.

 

nicki nailed it here, IMO.

 

I can understand why you'd worry about her being controlling, especially if she has been in the past. Thing is, people who have been cheated on - as you know - get really anxious about stuff like this. That doesn't mean it's rational, or that you should apologize for things you didn't do. You didn't cheat on her. But it does mean that, if you really think you want to make it work with this particular person, you might as well understand this about her and figure out how to work with her on it.

 

I can't add much to what nicki said, because I think she covered the bases. Sounds like your GF is jealous, plain and simple, and knows that isn't fair and that it's easier to label it cheating because that validates her hurt feelings. The thing you can let her know, gently, is that her hurt feelings are valid because they're just that - her feelings - but while you understand she's insecure that this other person might be a threat, the fact is, she really doesn't have anything to worry about.

 

It may be that she's also worried, deep down, that if you two have a serious fight you'll go off and sleep with someone else. You know you won't, I know you won't, and this whole forum knows you won't, but fear is irrational, and if she's really convinced herself that you weren't actually broken up, then she may have taken it to this place.

 

The way to deal with it is to be calm, rational, reassuring - but don't apologize for things you didn't do. Just tell her that she's the one you want to be with, and that you're very glad you're back together.

 

She'll have to do some of the work, too, to get past this. You can be caring and sensitive to her hurt feelings, but you really don't want to set a precedent of taking on responsibility for things that aren't your fault. (now if I could only take my own advice on that )

[blackbird]

So I understand it, she "believed" it was temporary because she felt, in her gut or intuitively, that I'd come back to her. But I don't think there was any doubt that I considered the relationship to be over, and not just on "pause".

 

Perhaps that's part of what's bothering her, don't you think?

 

I think the jealousy thing is right on too, but also her knowing/intuiting that the reason you felt no qualms about sleeping with someone else was because you were no longer invested in her... I can imagine that that would hurt, and make her wonder how committed you are this time. Hopefully you know what you're doing in getting back into this relationship.