sally4sara Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 I see it in both genders, albeit never so blatantly couched as a lesson... exactly....how convenient! I still say it doesn't seem like something a bitchy self absorbed woman would ever write. It seems like something someone who thinks of woman as being bitchy and self absorbed would write.
Author Woggle Posted January 9, 2008 Author Posted January 9, 2008 And these women will get angry and deny it till the cows come home when you see right through their manipulation but I am no fool.
lindya Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Maybe I've just been on forums for too long but I see this sort of thing fairly often. Its predictable: Step one: pose as the sort of person you dislike most. Incorporate every ugly stereotype you can in as convincing language as possible to fool as many people as possible, while still barbing at those you don't like. Step two: Set up a 'I got what I deserved scenario'. Step three: Take on a 'reformed' personality. Why? To cleverly ridicule those you don't like and convince those you don't like to see the error of their ways by pretending to be one of them who 'got what they deserved' and 'saw the light'. To the "Why" I'd add that it sounds like there's some degree of fantasising going on. Someone (male or female, it doesn't matter which) was maybe been left feeling in some way let down by/inferior in comparison to a woman who fitted their notion of a spoiled spoiled princess. Haven't most of us occasionally dreamed, secretly, of the painful fall from grace of some person we selected to blame for our insecurities? If the post genuinely was written by a woman in terms of how she views herself and her life, then that's terribly sad. I'd also guess that far from being a spoiled, self-indulging princess, someone who'd seriously write that post at the age of 45 has probably always had a tendency towards depression and destructive self criticism. It's great when a person can look at themselves and their personal history with unflattering honesty and clarity....but not when it's just a depressing anthem to the art of regret and self-loathing. That's the very opposite of feminism as I understand feminism to be.
brothermartin Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Why is it so hard to believe that a woman wrote this? Is it just as hard to believe that some woman/women have really lived this life? Some of the details in the story match many of what I myself have heard women tell me they have done before! I can see why some women would like to think that a man made this up to devalue women, but many man have heard, AND lived this same s**t before! Is it really that far fetched or just out of the ordinary?
sally4sara Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 So what your saying is that, females cannot be introspective and have epiphanies of they're own??? It may not look like a female wrote it but did you ever think that she had someone who's a male like ghostwrite it or it was dictated to someone else? Hmmmmmmmm? I feel that they can have epiphanies, but someone that far gone? They can have their light bulb moment and then quickly run from such and uncomfortable thought and find a way to blame such a self defeating view of themselves on their father or the boy's club job market, insensitive husband, etc. I find we collect more information as we get older, but some habits go unbroken so we can live with ourselves.
Trialbyfire Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 exactly....how convenient! I still say it doesn't seem like something a bitchy self absorbed woman would ever write. It seems like something someone who thinks of woman as being bitchy and self absorbed would write. I just don't get the reference to feminism being such an influence, and yet, she firmly believes in manipulating men through using feminine wiles. It's bizarre. It's like a misogynist put together his worst nightmare, Franken-Fem, and created a moral lesson from it.
sally4sara Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Why is it so hard to believe that a woman wrote this? Is it just as hard to believe that some woman/women have really lived this life? Some of the details in the story match many of what I myself have heard women tell me they have done before! I can see why some women would like to think that a man made this up to devalue women, but many man have heard, AND lived this same s**t before! Is it really that far fetched or just out of the ordinary? No it isn't me trying to believe that. I do not find myself mirrored in it in anyway, so I have no motive for debunking it. The wording, the way it runs down and includes every facet of the stereotype, a lot of little things. It doesn't seem to be ONE woman's story, but a mishmash of the negative points of many women's story. I pick up on little details sometimes about random things and I've been writing since I was 12. I even sent it to three of my friends who work in journalism (two are men, gasp! one is even a single father with a deadbeat ex-wife!) and we all agree. This story isn't solid. Sorry, I'm not buying it.
brothermartin Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 No it isn't me trying to believe that. I do not find myself mirrored in it in anyway, so I have no motive for debunking it. The wording, the way it runs down and includes every facet of the stereotype, a lot of little things. It doesn't seem to be ONE woman's story, but a mishmash of the negative points of many women's story. I pick up on little details sometimes about random things and I've been writing since I was 12. I even sent it to three of my friends who work in journalism (two are men, gasp! one is even a single father with a deadbeat ex-wife!) and we all agree. This story isn't solid. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Interesting point. Ok. But even if it were written by a woman hating man or a group of women coming clean about skeletons in there closet, it still dose'nt make it totally untrue. Given the right circumstances and my own personal experiences with women that had similar mind-sets, I believe it happened. Maybe not to the same degree, but still.
sally4sara Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 And these women will get angry and deny it till the cows come home when you see right through their manipulation but I am no fool. Woggle, I don't hate men. I don't walk around feeling put upon. Even when it would serve me best to do so, lying doesn't sit well with me. I had to spend the first half of my life lying to survive in my own home. So now I have a very strong opinion about lying. "Eff you, nothing you can do will get me to hide the truth when I see it and know it." I also don't pull the coy feminine game to get my way made easier. I don't have to. And for that reason, doing so would be lying. If we were suddenly plane crashed, you'd want me on your team. I'd keep you alive. So when you come on here with your jaded swagger (figuratively of course) and start a post titled "Men does this woman sound familiar to you?", you have first decided you 1. don't want any view point contradictory to your own. 2. don't feel anyone but the boys will understand. 3. don't find enough merit in any women to care how insulting you are being to women who don't fit this stereotype. We are alien and full of cold green goo. -and the big one- 4. you don't realize how lucky you are to have found a woman who will put up with having to wake up everyday and pound her heart against the incredibly thick wall you've put up around you. Everyday she spends with you and every night she goes to sleep next to you wonder how long it's going to take before her love makes you stop spinning your wheels about how women suck. Why did you even get married if you're still going to fester over this? You SEEK IT OUT. You look hopefully for more and more reasons to stay bitter despite being loved and honored by a woman. Isn't it enough? What will you do if she becomes convinced that it will never be enough and gives up? You'll go across the street and b@#th about what a lying whore she with your angry neighbor, won't you. Notice that last sentence wasn't a question because I haven't a doubt.
sally4sara Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Interesting point. Ok. But even if it were written by a woman hating man or a group of women coming clean about skeletons in there closet, it still dose'nt make it totally untrue. Given the right circumstances and my own personal experiences with women that had similar mind-sets, I believe it happened. Maybe not to the same degree, but still. I'll give you that. I've met women who would fit some of the story; they scared me and give me a headache. And their exact and opposite counter part is the overly entitled woman hating man. Take note how often they can be found under the same roof (or rather use to be found under the same roof before the divorce).
Racquel Colette Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 It was clearly written by a man because on those "I hate women" websites, it is always brought up how 'fat' women get as they get older, or how all American women are fat and unattractive. It is clearly stressed throughout this piece, very fake. A size 12 woman is not washed up and I have lost 25 pounds and gotten in shape so it doesn't make sense to state beyond the point of no return.
brothermartin Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Woggle, I don't hate men. I don't walk around feeling put upon. Even when it would serve me best to do so, lying doesn't sit well with me. I had to spend the first half of my life lying to survive in my own home. So now I have a very strong opinion about lying. "Eff you, nothing you can do will get me to hide the truth when I see it and know it." I also don't pull the coy feminine game to get my way made easier. I don't have to. And for that reason, doing so would be lying. If we were suddenly plane crashed, you'd want me on your team. I'd keep you alive. So when you come on here with your jaded swagger (figuratively of course) and start a post titled "Men does this woman sound familiar to you?", you have first decided you 1. don't want any view point contradictory to your own. 2. don't feel anyone but the boys will understand. 3. don't find enough merit in any women to care how insulting you are being to women who don't fit this stereotype. We are alien and full of cold green goo. -and the big one- 4. you don't realize how lucky you are to have found a woman who will put up with having to wake up everyday and pound her heart against the incredibly thick wall you've put up around you. Everyday she spends with you and every night she goes to sleep next to you wonder how long it's going to take before her love makes you stop spinning your wheels about how women suck. Why did you even get married if you're still going to fester over this? You SEEK IT OUT. You look hopefully for more and more reasons to stay bitter despite being loved and honored by a woman. Isn't it enough? What will you do if she becomes convinced that it will never be enough and gives up? You'll go across the street and b@#th about what a lying whore she with your angry neighbor, won't you. Notice that last sentence wasn't a question because I haven't a doubt. So, your saying you're not this kind of woman? Kidding. Please don't kill me.
sally4sara Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 No I'm not, but that isn't the point of the post you quoted. The point is Why on Earth does Woggle give a crap? He is supposedly happily married! What is the objective here? Why is he still so angry? Why does he feed his fears by seeking this stuff out? It doesn't apply to him. It will not help him be a more compassionate person and will not help him be a good man. It will however get him e-pats on the back by other heman-woman haters when he reposts it and bellows "SEEEEEEE!? Heartless banshees the whole lot of them!"
tanbark813 Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 No I'm not, but that isn't the point of the post you quoted. The point is Why on Earth does Woggle give a crap? He is supposedly happily married! What is the objective here? Why is he still so angry? Why does he feed his fears by seeking this stuff out? It doesn't apply to him. It will not help him be a more compassionate person and will not help him be a good man. It will however get him e-pats on the back by other heman-woman haters when he reposts it and bellows "SEEEEEEE!? Heartless banshees the whole lot of them!" Not a single poster in this thread said all women are like this.
sally4sara Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Not a single poster in this thread said all women are like this. The OP struggles with this view repeatedly. I have directed most of what I have to say to him for that reason. I'd quote you if I had a view to counter your's. Your's may differ from mine or the OP's and I won't have a thing to say. But Woggle NEEDS HELP. He is angry and spinning and seeking out made up stories that fuel him on (or hateful friends) isn't going to help him at all. He has all the ingredients to be happy, and yet, seems to prefer this. It makes me sad for him most of the time. Today it just makes me mad.
Lizzie60 Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 The OP struggles with this view repeatedly. I have directed most of what I have to say to him for that reason. I'd quote you if I had a view to counter your's. Your's may differ from mine or the OP's and I won't have a thing to say. But Woggle NEEDS HELP. He is angry and spinning and seeking out made up stories that fuel him on (or hateful friends) isn't going to help him at all. He has all the ingredients to be happy, and yet, seems to prefer this. It makes me sad for him most of the time. Today it just makes me mad. I agree and he's not the only one who really needs help... there are a few angry posters here that sing the same song over and over and over... because they are bitter for what happened to them.. they just can't let go...
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I agree and he's not the only one who really needs help... there are a few angry posters here that sing the same song over and over and over... because they are bitter for what happened to them.. they just can't let go... Hold up liz. I think we can let it go but that stuff takes time. Forgiveness and redemption and karma. stuff like that is all intertwined. We as men go into these dark spots where were really cynical and self destructive. We do not have the support systems that females do. We have to do it on our own.
Lizzie60 Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Hold up liz. I think we can let it go but that stuff takes time. Forgiveness and redemption and karma. stuff like that is all intertwined. We as men go into these dark spots where were really cynical and self destructive. We do not have the support systems that females do. We have to do it on our own. Hold up! Geez CB.. my hands are up! Son of a gun... don't scare me like that.. LOL Yes I have to agree that we have a better support system... but this is also slowly changing.. it takes time...
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Hold up! Geez CB.. my hands are up! Son of a gun... don't scare me like that.. LOL Yes I have to agree that we have a better support system... but this is also slowly changing.. it takes time... Oh yeah you know I'm packing!!!! lmao!!!
shadowplay Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Good Lord, this reads like some bad "Lifetime for Women" TV special. Hey-did Aaron Spelling (maker of "90210") co-write the charachter? Will Tori Spelling play in it? I feel really bad for anyone that gets worked up over this, meaning influenced. It is just playing into what men think women are secretly like. Whatever. The charachter is not believable, it is parsing together bits of sterotypical career woman/by the book feminist/promiscous cheerleader and I doubt it was even written by a woman..... CLAPTRAP. Did a computer program parse key words together and spit this out? I agree; it's so fake. What's more I'm 99% sure a guy wrote it.
bozwa Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 A link and a recap would be better in the future My eyes hurt. If all women were like that, I'd have a sex change. Ditto. Personally I don't know anyone like this - that I know of anyway...thank GAWD.
serial muse Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Just an FYI: the article was written by a guy; he posted it to the "niceguy" forum (which, yes, that forum is rather woman-hating). It's a fact - he owns up to writing it outright in the original post, which was back in November. Of course, that bit somehow gets conveniently deleted when it gets shunted about the web time and time again. I expect this will turn up on Urban Legends Reference Pages someday or other, since it's likely to become part of an annoying endless email chain. Bleh. C'mon guys, that story was just wayyyyyy over the top. Some of y'all are pretty seasoned to be taken in by that. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Edited January 10, 2008 by serial muse
Florida Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Just an FYI: the article was written by a guy; he posted it to the "niceguy" forum (which, yes, that forum is rather woman-hating). It's a fact - he owns up to writing it outright in the original post, which was back in November. Of course, that bit somehow gets conveniently deleted when it gets shunted about the web time and time again. I expect this will turn up on Urban Legends Reference Pages someday or other, since it's likely to become part of an annoying endless email chain. Bleh. C'mon guys, that story was just wayyyyyy over the top. Some of y'all are pretty seasoned to be taken in by that. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I'm rather disappointed/annoyed that all the guys seem to think this is some definition of what kind of woman they know/knew. That serial muse confimed it was in fact written by a man is even worse, for the men who responded strongly, that is. It was very obvious to me after reading it. Good lord you guys....get a grip.
halfarock Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Just an FYI: the article was written by a guy; he posted it to the "niceguy" forum (which, yes, that forum is rather woman-hating). It's a fact - he owns up to writing it outright in the original post, which was back in November. Of course, that bit somehow gets conveniently deleted when it gets shunted about the web time and time again. ;)I expect this will turn up on Urban Legends Reference Pages someday or other, since it's likely to become part of an annoying endless email chain. Bleh. C'mon guys, that story was just wayyyyyy over the top. Some of y'all are pretty seasoned to be taken in by that. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. This is what I thought might be the case as I read the OP. Every woman that I’ve ever known who was successful in business and also had a family life none were as described in the OP. They all seemed to be content with their lives.
Author Woggle Posted January 10, 2008 Author Posted January 10, 2008 This article may or may not be true but it os spot on with many women though most of these types don't ever look at themselves and face the truth. They spend their lives blaming men for all their problems. I am happily married but I still care about men and care about helping us win. Just because I happened to stumble upon a great woman does not mean there aren't many men still going through hell and I am passionette about helping win the battle of the sexes.
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