Dating Down or Should This Even Matter?

[amethyst3]

Everything you're writing here says that they do matter for you. It's not being a bad person, just accept who you are. For me this reads more like a personal issue than anything else. You'd like to be the person who doesn't care about it, but you're not. That's okay. Just don't put him and yourself through a relationship that is doomed from the beginning.

 

Accepting doesn't mean loving, but you stated more than once that he needs to change himself to be considered your equal. Which is the opposite of acceptance.

 

You are right. While I can accept things now, I don't know if I can later down the road, especially since so many things are up in the air for him. And I don't want to care about the superficial things, but they do bug me, I can't deny.

 

I guess I'll have to wait and see how things go. Hopefully, the things I don't like will dissipate in my mind in time or improve, as we further get to know each other and hopefully bond more. If not, I probably won't waste either of our time.

 

But I hope its the former.

[Cobra_X30]

If he made no changes, I honestly couldn't say how long I'd stay interested. I've always been drawn to men I found professionally ambitious and very driven and successful. This is a first for me.

 

So I did take him as is, but that changed and things I didn't know resurfaced.

 

I can honestly say if I were to meet him for the first time today, I might not have gone out with him knowing what I know now.

 

But I may have also missed out on a great guy.

 

To be fair its an interesting quandry. Love is always conditional. It sounds like the other men you dated were shallow and did not value you well.

 

This guy probably values you partly because you have personality traits that he sees himself as lacking. Hopefully you see things in him that you also lack. The longer you spend together the more he will take on those traits of yours that he admires.

 

See, I've never dated a woman and expected her to make a certain amount of money... or be super ambitious. I always look for a good heart, a loving soul, and some smarts. I can happily supply the rest.

 

I know this guy is different... but nothing you've done previous has worked out. Do you want to go back to that? Sometimes in life you have to pick whats important... because honestly, I've never met someone perfect.

[amethyst3]

To be fair its an interesting quandry. Love is always conditional. It sounds like the other men you dated were shallow and did not value you well.

 

So true. I've dated guys who I viewed as successful before but they didn't value me or really invest in me. So I expanded my horizons and found my guy.

 

See, I've never dated a woman and expected her to make a certain amount of money... or be super ambitious. I always look for a good heart, a loving soul, and some smarts. I can happily supply the rest.

I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems women oftentimes have different expectations and standards when it comes to finding the right guy and finances do come into play. Men seem less interested in that. I guess I'm just used to men who are ahead of me in the career game and this feels different for me.

 

I know this guy is different... but nothing you've done previous has worked out. Do you want to go back to that? Sometimes in life you have to pick whats important... because honestly, I've never met someone perfect.

 

This is exactly how I feel. I've been to other message boards where they've told me these differences like this (ambitious vs. not) will tear us apart and we have no long-term potential. And honestly, I did consider it. But I feel as you, the guy with the career and house and success may not guarantee me anything. I don't want to give up what could be a real love for superficial reasons. But then I've had others say its not superficial, that its a matter of having similar life goals and wants.

 

But its my personal issue. I'll have to decide if I can really get past this or if its a bigger deal to me than I thought.

[amethyst3]

Sometimes in life you have to pick whats important... because honestly, I've never met someone perfect.

 

And the important stuff, he does have. His heart is gold and I love that about him.

[Cobra_X30]

I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems women oftentimes have different expectations and standards when it comes to finding the right guy and finances do come into play. Men seem less interested in that. I guess I'm just used to men who are ahead of me in the career game and this feels different for me.

 

This is exactly how I feel. I've been to other message boards where they've told me these differences like this (ambitious vs. not) will tear us apart and we have no long-term potential. And honestly, I did consider it. But I feel as you, the guy with the career and house and success may not guarantee me anything. I don't want to give up what could be a real love for superficial reasons. But then I've had others say its not superficial, that its a matter of having similar life goals and wants.

 

But its my personal issue. I'll have to decide if I can really get past this or if its a bigger deal to me than I thought.

 

Exactly. The long term potential of the relationship rests squarly on how much you each want it to work.

 

Guys like me who have had some luck and sucess in life tend to resent women who want us for that reason. I want someone who loves me for me... not because of what I do or what I make.

 

The overall point of this is that in the end... he may simply require less material goods to be happy in life. Your going to have to decide if you can live with that. The most important part... as long as your open and honest with him about your feelings in regards to this... you have as long as you need to make this choice.

[amethyst3]

The overall point of this is that in the end... he may simply require less material goods to be happy in life. Your going to have to decide if you can live with that. The most important part... as long as your open and honest with him about your feelings in regards to this... you have as long as you need to make this choice.

 

Thank you Cobra_X30 for your advice. I hear everything you've said and it makes a lot of sense. Though I do have to say its not about material goods but accomplishments that is different between us. Where I have a ton I want to do in life, I don't feel content unless I'm acheiving these things, he's seems more passive in pursuing anything and content in not doing anything unless pressured to do so (not by me!).

 

But the overall advice is still the same. Time will tell for me. And thanks everyone else who responded. You all gave me some things to think about and consider. Not bad for a first post.

 

[jcster]

But I find myself having problems finding the overall package of him and his current lifestyle attractive.

 

... I'm having trouble getting past the path he's carved out for himself (which was nowhere) and feeling as passionate and deep about him as I did other guys. Guys who were more successful and more accomplished.

 

I know he's working on it but I don't know how long it will take and how patient I can be.

 

.... but I feel like he needs to "step up" or catch up. I feel like he's lagging behind me and that makes him less appealing in my eyes.

 

Amethyst - if you're still reading this post - I think you've answered your own question in your original message. I took these quotes from that post. Regardless of whether or not it's shallow, you obviously have some issues with where this guy is in life.

 

It's a bad idea to date someone based upon potential. Many people have excellent potential, and will never achieve it. Waiting for someone to change so that you can love them more cheats everyone in the relationship. I would urge you to find someone that matches your energy and goals. As it is, you two are far too different in outlook and it can't possibly work.

[crosswordfiend]

Reading this thread actually makes me feel kind of sad. I think mostly people have built up from early childhood some preconceived notion of what their life should look like. If you truly require your accessory, erm... man, to be driven, ambitious and career-oriented, then this relationship will not work in the long run. But it's important for you to take some time to understand why YOU feel the way you do. Do you seek validation from your peer group? Do these ideals derive from societal norms being projected back upon you? Can you reconcile what you have with what you want or rather think you want? Remember that true connections are very rare indeed.

[amethyst3]

But it's important for you to take some time to understand why YOU feel the way you do. Do you seek validation from your peer group? Do these ideals derive from societal norms being projected back upon you? Can you reconcile what you have with what you want or rather think you want? Remember that true connections are very rare indeed.

 

I actually have thought about this a lot in the past few years. What I've found is when looking at guys that I've really fallen for and was crazy about, they all had one thing in common, what I call 'the wow factor'; that being, there was something about them or their life experiences that made me say 'wow' and I thus looked up to them and admired them for their accomplishments and achievements. They also made me want to do better, aim higher and achieve more myself.

 

I haven't quite figured out why I gravitate towards this but I guess Ive always gravitated towards what I consider 'successful' people. Maybe to learn from them, pick their brains and find out how they did what they did, but I know I've kinda always been this way. Perhaps, that is a society norm. I"m not sure.

 

But I agree on the connection part. And finding someone that truly digs you, for you and makes you happy.

[crosswordfiend]

It's a complex issue and I don't have many answers for you. But, I will add that accomplishment, achievement and success are not well defined concepts. You've been using the terms in the context of a profession or a vocation. This is the most accessible form as it is measurable. There are educational credentials such as diplomas and degrees, job titles, bank balances etc... and we all subconsciously put a value on each of these attributes based loosely on societal norms. But there are other things. Speaking as someone who managed to get himself off the corporate treadmill last year, I get excited anytime I meet someone with fresh ideas on how to live a good life, and they get bonus points if they actually carry through. So long as you are learning something new every day...

[brothermartin]

Dump him. You're only going to get more impatient and eventually you will start looking down on him. If he's at a low point in his life now and trying to "step up", as you say, the last thing he needs is someone he really cares about standing on his head cracking a whip.

 

Or, love him and be as understanding as you can. Finding a career and a place in life is hard, but not impossible. It takes some people more time than others, but it can be done, which makes it less important IMO. But finding someone that you really love and love's you is much, much harder to find. Some people will throw that away because they think they can do better or that real love come's a dime a dozen.

 

So, the Q is: what's more important to you, success, or love?

[Trialbyfire]

Amethyst - if you're still reading this post - I think you've answered your own question in your original message. I took these quotes from that post. Regardless of whether or not it's shallow, you obviously have some issues with where this guy is in life.

 

It's a bad idea to date someone based upon potential. Many people have excellent potential, and will never achieve it. Waiting for someone to change so that you can love them more cheats everyone in the relationship. I would urge you to find someone that matches your energy and goals. As it is, you two are far too different in outlook and it can't possibly work.

Been there, done that and I fully agree. Never date anyone by potential. They're either there or they're not.

 

I also believe that love is never enough. Once again, been there, done that, would never do it again. Do you honestly respect and trust him? If not, you're asking for trouble in the future.

[Krytie TV]

Any thoughts. Should any of that matter? Am I being too superficial? He treats me wonderfully and I'm pretty happy but I feel like he needs to "step up" or catch up. I feel like he's lagging behind me and that makes him less appealing in my eyes.

 

OP, I'll chime in and say the guy sounds like a loser in a functional respect. He may be a good person, but doesn't exactly seem able to hang in the real world and would be nothing but a drain for you, emotionally and monetarily. You'd resent him sooner or later after the initial infatuation wore off.

 

I think all the negatives you mention are reasons to avoid this guy. Everyone here is being hard on you and I think they're just being hypocritical. They would do the same thing. I know I would.

[amethyst3]

So, the Q is: what's more important to you, success, or love?

The idealist in me says love. But I think realistically, it takes more than that to even get to love; like having the same goals, wants and needs.

 

I think I'd even feel tons better if he even got a job. But he's not even looking. I'm having a hard time relating to that kind of mindset.

 

I think all the negatives you mention are reasons to avoid this guy. Everyone here is being hard on you and I think they're just being hypocritical. They would do the same thing. I know I would.

 

Thanks for understanding. What you're saying is more along the lines of the advice I've been getting; that a highly ambitious, goal-oriented person may not have a chance with someone whose not.

 

*sigh* Sucks.

 

Well, I'm not giving up just yet; want to give it more time but I appreciate all the insights so far.

[lino]

OP, I'll chime in and say the guy sounds like a loser in a functional respect. He may be a good person, but doesn't exactly seem able to hang in the real world and would be nothing but a drain for you, emotionally and monetarily. You'd resent him sooner or later after the initial infatuation wore off.

 

I think all the negatives you mention are reasons to avoid this guy. Everyone here is being hard on you and I think they're just being hypocritical. They would do the same thing. I know I would.

 

I agree, especially with the bolded part.

OP, I don't think there's anything wrong with what you want from this guy. A 30 yr old guy with no job is not what I would imagine to be all that inviting to alot of girls.

 

I think I'd even feel tons better if he even got a job. But he's not even looking. I'm having a hard time relating to that kind of mindset.

 

No offense but I think that's a really bad sign!!

[SpanksTheMonkey]

I care a lot for him and see a lot pf potential in him but I'm having trouble getting past the path he's carved out for himself (which was nowhere) and feeling as passionate and deep about him as I did other guys. Guys who were more successful and more accomplished.

 

I know he's working on it but I don't know how long it will take and how patient I can be.

 

Any thoughts. Should any of that matter? Am I being too superficial? He treats me wonderfully and I'm pretty happy but I feel like he needs to "step up" or catch up. I feel like he's lagging behind me and that makes him less appealing in my eyes.

Why did you even start dateing or seeing him? To me it sounds like yes you are kinda superfical.

 

Would you be happier if he was a dr with his own place on park ave who treated you like crap? Not every one starts out knowing there place in life and being driven/lucky enough to get it right off the bat.

 

For some life takes turns and twists before you reach that place it sounds like hes honestly trying to turn his life around for the better.

 

And to me if you can't be there for him as hes doing it then don't hang around and wait until hes successfull its just not fair to him.

 

He derverves some one who cares for him the person not him the check book/apartment/car or so on.

 

Hope I dident offend you dident mean to be nasty just dident know how else to word that..

[amethyst3]

Why did you even start dateing or seeing him? To me it sounds like yes you are kinda superfical.

 

Would you be happier if he was a dr with his own place on park ave who treated you like crap? Not every one starts out knowing there place in life and being driven/lucky enough to get it right off the bat.

 

For some life takes turns and twists before you reach that place it sounds like hes honestly trying to turn his life around for the better.

 

And to me if you can't be there for him as hes doing it then don't hang around and wait until hes successfull its just not fair to him.

 

He derverves some one who cares for him the person not him the check book/apartment/car or so on.

 

Hope I dident offend you dident mean to be nasty just dident know how else to word that..

 

Not offended. But I think what you and others are not getting is that its not about just having a car/apartment/job but about having the drive to do something with his life instead of sitting around chilling and being content just paying bills and getting by. That's not at all how I live my life and its not the way I envision a future spouse living it with me.

 

I started dating him because he was romantic and sweet and thoughtful and wonderful. I didn't find the rest out until a month or so later and after we'd already agreed to be exclusive.

 

But again, since he's decided to work on all this, I'm sticking by him and am curious to see where he'll be in 3-6 months and what things will improve for him and hopefully boost his self esteem and confidence, which I think could help us.

 

But I gotta wait and see.

[crosswordfiend]

I started dating him because he was romantic and sweet and thoughtful and wonderful. I didn't find the rest out until a month or so later and after we'd already agreed to be exclusive.

 

But again, since he's decided to work on all this, I'm sticking by him and am curious to see where he'll be in 3-6 months and what things will improve for him and hopefully boost his self esteem and confidence, which I think could help us.

 

Let's just hope that if he finds the drive to doing something with his life, he doesn't lose the time he spent being thoughtful and wonderful.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Not offended. But I think what you and others are not getting is that its not about just having a car/apartment/job but about having the drive to do something with his life instead of sitting around chilling and being content just paying bills and getting by. That's not at all how I live my life and its not the way I envision a future spouse living it with me.

 

I started dating him because he was romantic and sweet and thoughtful and wonderful. I didn't find the rest out until a month or so later and after we'd already agreed to be exclusive.

 

But again, since he's decided to work on all this, I'm sticking by him and am curious to see where he'll be in 3-6 months and what things will improve for him and hopefully boost his self esteem and confidence, which I think could help us.

 

But I gotta wait and see.

Whats wrong with paying bills? I think what you want is a doc or lawer type.

 

Lets be honest it is about his income to a degree to you. And prob the status that comes along with it. Look if thats important to you then you shouldent have gotten invloved its not fair to him.

 

How could you not find that stuff out untill a month after you started dateing him? Being so career driven your self and knowing what you want in a mate dident you ask what do you do for liveing??

 

I would break up and find your self some one who will fit your ideals better but rember the grass isent always greener on the other side of the bank acct...lol Oh just wondering dose he work? Or is his job just not up to your standards?

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Let's just hope that if he finds the drive to doing something with his life, he doesn't lose the time he spent being thoughtful and wonderful.

Agreed crossword he could become a doc and with in 3 months poster# 1 could be back on here saying how her bf is sucessfull but dosent take the time he use to for her anymore and isent as careing!

 

I don't think people should be in a relashionship were they feel the need to change the other person. Cause most of the time it dosent work anyways! This guy has a job pays bills so what he lives at home for now. Long as hes driven to change his life give him a break.

 

The costs of rents in most states are redickulas the cost of liveing are thu the roof! Its one thing to be there and honestly support him with out haveing your own hidden agenda but not to stay with him for your own selfish reasons { because he treats me so well} When this is what you honestly think about him. How did you meet this guy anyways?