Indiscretions/Guilt & the right thing to do

[emerald40]

Dean,

 

I know EXACTLY how you feel! I was married for 16 years and had an affair. The guilt you feel is huge and even though I told my husband, I could not move on from what I did. He forgave me, but I continued to be so unhappy that getting out of the marriage was my only alternative. We have two kids together and that was the hardest part about leaving. BUT, I would rather my kids see their parents in a loving and happy relationship than seeing the tension and unhappiness we were showing. It has been almost 2 years since my divorce, and it was like going to hell and back. The guilt and various emotions you feel are extremely painful, but I can honestly say I am MUCH happier now. You CANNOT continue to live in an unsatisfying and unfulfilling relationship just because of guilt and for the children. One day, your kids will move away and you will be left living with a stranger for the rest of your life. I am glad I moved on because our family is MUCH happier now! Good luck to you!

[the_dean]

Emerald,

 

You are right and I have realized that. I have no doubt my wife and I will be getting a divorce.

 

I ended up going out of the country with the call girl i became friends with. It was a bad move but I realize now for the past few months that I have been delibertly doing things to try and get out of the marriage, add excitement to my life, or whatever else.

 

I do not have the time to explain the details but i now have an emotionally attached friend that can no longer be a call girl because of some of the observations I made. She had a lot of repressed feelings and needed to be treated like a human being instead of a fantasy figure. I actually feel bad for making someone else change their life. It is not my place. I had to break it off emotionally with her the most part.

 

I told my my wife I went out of the country with a female friend and told her the reasons why.

 

My wife has accepted it and while she was mad, she actually appreciates the fact that I mad a counscious effort to break off the EA.

 

We have been able to discuss divorce rationally now. We are discussing different scenarioes and also how to handle the financial aspect. Getting divorced 6 months after buying your dream home isnt the greatest timing on earth.

 

I do think if we can keep things civil, it will benefit everyone including our children.

 

There is no huge rush. We dont have to be separated by Monday. I think we will need to continue to talk about over many nights until we both mentally are prepared for moving on.

 

I also am preparing myself mentally to be with no one. I have been greatly depressed the last few days as I realize I will have no partner but it is for the best. I expect I need to go through depression and all other sort of agony before I can move on.

 

Anyways, I will keep you guys posted.

 

Dean

[the_dean]

Last night was quite interesting. My wife broke down and admitted that she completely understands why I was looking for attention elsewhere. She admitted that she had been a bad wife (but a good mother). This is the first time i really was able to communicate in years.

 

I am sure this is due to the fact that we have been discussing how to handle a divorce, etc.

 

She said she wanted to try to change. I tried to be fair and asked if she could get over my indescretions and she said she could.

 

I dont know if this is the equivelent to "cold feet" before a wedding happening before a impending divorce.

 

However, I am going to see how things go and if she continues with this. If she gets focused on getting her life back together and making the marriage work then I will try to make it work. I will have to wait and see if she can get over what I did. She did admit she gave me not attention, she gained a ton of weight, no sex, etc. Even if we still get divorced, I hope for her sake she starts getting her life back together. If she would get back to even a 3 time a week light workout, she is so much better mentally and physically and deals with stress better.

 

Dean

[StillSame]

I ended up going out of the country with the call girl i became friends with.

 

How did this happened?

 

 

I do not have the time to explain the details but i now have an emotionally attached friend that can no longer be a call girl because of some of the observations I made. She had a lot of repressed feelings and needed to be treated like a human being instead of a fantasy figure. I actually feel bad for making someone else change their life. It is not my place. I had to break it off emotionally with her the most part.

 

Are you falling for her or is she falling for you?

[the_dean]

How did this happened?

 

 

 

 

Are you falling for her or is she falling for you?

 

 

I think it was a little of both. I have just about completely got out of that as I cannot deal with an emotional affair right now. I am trying very hard just to be friends and she says she wants that to.

 

I am not kidding when I said I could write a book about that adventure. I actually did write about 50 pages encrypted in 2048 bit with a hardware key to make sure it is not easy to decrypt. I just needed to get it out of my system. In a way it was the worst vacation I ever had but it might have been the most exciting. This forum just doesnt have enough space..

 

The out of the country vacation with a call girl became real interesting. For the record, I was not paying her.

 

How did it happen? I just asked if she would like to go and she was thrilled. We had a lot of different things happen but it made me realize I need a divorce and it got her out of that field. She had me upset at one point and I made a extremely bold statement about what she did for a living. I honestly thought for a second she was going to rip my face off. It took a while for it to sink in and she took some shots at me but ever since that argument, we have been very close. For what it is worth, I have not had sex with her since that trip. I will see her once this week for lunch but that is as deep as I can let my involvement go at this point.

 

Now, just some forewarning for anyone that uses a very large online travel site. I had changed my email address, username, password, etc. when I booked the ticketS and the number of people in the hotel room. Unfortunately, my wife called the 800 number and she didn't know my user name, my secret answer, etc. yet they told her who I went with, her name, etc. and everything on the reservation. I do NOT know for sure what this company's privacy policy is but i am not real happy about it. What am I going to do about i tnow though?

 

Dean

Edited February 10, 2008 by the_dean

[StillSame]

I will see her once this week for lunch but that is as deep as I can let my involvement go at this point.

 

 

Dean

 

 

That's not acceptable. As long as you still seeing this OW, you CANNOT work on your marriage. Does your wife know that you'll be meeting her for lunch? We both know the answer. You're continuing the emotional affair by having any contact with the OW.

[the_dean]

That's not acceptable. As long as you still seeing this OW, you CANNOT work on your marriage. Does your wife know that you'll be meeting her for lunch? We both know the answer. You're continuing the emotional affair by having any contact with the OW.

 

Yes my wife is aware. I set the plan ahead of time and I keep my word. If my wife asks me not to see her anymore as part of a resolution then I will.

 

We went through a lot together and we still are tied together few some common friends and even business clients. Keep in mind this woman runs a business (not her service) that I have worked with on and off for the last 4 years. This isnt someone I just met. I just didnt know about her side job.

 

I cannot just drop my plans with lunch with her because one night and my wife all of a sudden wants to make things better. I have learned not to get too high or too low emotionally. Lets wait and see if she really does want this course of action.

 

I do appreciate the feedback but no one call tell me what is unacceptable and not unacceptable at this point. You only know a very small piece of the puzzle at this point!

 

Dean

[StillSame]

I do appreciate the feedback but no one call tell me what is unacceptable and not unacceptable at this point. You only know a very small piece of the puzzle at this point!

 

Dean

 

I meant it in a sense to your willingness to work on the marriage. If you don't want to work on the marriage, it's alright to have lunch with whomever. But, since you had physical and emotional affair with this OW, is it possible that the lunch is strictly business or friendship? What's the purpose of the lunch anyway?

 

 

We went through a lot together and we still are tied together few some common friends and even business clients. Keep in mind this woman runs a business (not her service) that I have worked with on and off for the last 4 years. This isnt someone I just met. I just didnt know about her side job.

 

Went through alot together? Do you meant that trip together along with some paid hours thoughout the last few months?

 

Just out of curiousity, how did you find out that she's a escort? Does she advertise it around? Have your friends and other clients used her services?

[Scrivdog]

You'll get no arguments from me. I concluded long ago that there is very little upside to marriage if your wife stops being a lover. We married guys have very few requests, really.

 

We want a woman who is passionate. That is - a wife who loves sex and is not ashamed of it. Now, we don't want her to be "a slut" - but do want her to be "my slut". But equally, what is attractive is when she is passionate about something she's really interested in (besides money, controlling a man, career, etc.) - a woman who doesn't "need" a man to live but does "want" this here man because he fascinates her.

 

The rules of the game are simple. Men don't just like tits and ass. We also like somebody who is fascinating to be with.

 

If your wife becomes a sexless nag and is no longer bringing anything to the table of the relationship sexually or otherwise- then what's the point of perpetuating the farce? I would disregard any and all attempts at the inevitable attempts here to induce guilt via screeching pontification about your marriage vows - it's just not relevant in this case.

 

Oh - and my experience is such that I give 99-1 odds that your wife will come around for a few weeks or maybe a couple of months before reverting right back to where she was. Sexual passion is just not about making an effort.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Scrivdog

[the_dean]

Scrivdog,

 

I think me and you see things very much the same. I said I am not going to get too high or too low because one night of wanting to make it work doesn't mean much in the big picture. If she is sincere and continues then maybe it is worth really working together on makingour marriage work.

 

I have a great deal of guilt and she has a great deal of regrets, She admitted she didnt blame me for looking for "attention" and "sex" in other places.

 

However, I still am planning on keeping this new friendship very cool and causal. I do not want deep emotionally involvement with her but I do want to respect her as a friend. Who knows, maybe down the road, we will get more serious if I go through a divorce but for the time being I want to keep her a bit distanced emotionally. She also feels guilty for the trouble that she feels like she caused my wife. I explained that my wife is not mad at her but at me. Now she is mainly mad at herself.

 

I didnt promise my wife if she continues to talk honestly and continues to try to make things better that I will give it 100% and I mean it. I at very least owe the opporunity to give my wife the benefit of the doubt.

 

I know I have done things that I should not have but I also am still a man who has needs.

 

Dean

[the_dean]

I meant it in a sense to your willingness to work on the marriage. If you don't want to work on the marriage, it's alright to have lunch with whomever. But, since you had physical and emotional affair with this OW, is it possible that the lunch is strictly business or friendship? What's the purpose of the lunch anyway?

 

 

 

 

Went through alot together? Do you meant that trip together along with some paid hours thoughout the last few months?

 

Just out of curiousity, how did you find out that she's a escort? Does she advertise it around? Have your friends and other clients used her services?

 

I did pay for three sessions but everything else past that I was not charged becausse we became friends.

 

As for what we have been through, it is a incredible amount. The craziest and most unlikely week of my life. I simply cannot explain enough in a forum to give you a rough idea of what all happened. I explained about the big fight and her getting out of the escort side. She is an extremely smart person but she can be shallow and not think when she puts on her act to please men. I simply pointed out the obvious. There is some bond we have now. I dont know where it will leave but it is not romantic at this point. We were basically two people who didn't know each other that well that went to a foregin country (in paradise) and spent some of the best and worst times together that either of us had been through. If my wife is sincere and continues to try and make our marraige work then I will break the firendship part completely even if I dont want to. I have backed off a great deal to try and just be friends which is good whether I get divorced or not.

 

My business sometimes does websites for clients and she talked to me personally about a private website she wanted created. This is how I found out.

[StillSame]

How are things going with you and your wife now?

 

Are you still involved with this escort?

[the_dean]

How are things going with you and your wife now?

 

Are you still involved with this escort?

 

My wife has come down with a bug from work and the last few nights we really didnt have very good talks. I did NOT push the situation because illness tends to lead to short tempers. I want to keep everything positive and I can wait a few more days. We have large issues and haven't really haven't been on the same page for years. There is no reason not to show patience now. I am going to tell her a lot of things but not everything if she really is sincere about working on her marriage. If I just unload everything I have done during the "bad times" in our marriage then there is no point in the disucssion. I will keep you guys up to date with any new news. There just is no news at this point.

 

I had lunch with the escort today. Nothing eventful. We talked for a while but nothing deep. She is very involved with her other business. I just tried to make it clear that I hope she wasnt getting out because of some comments I said. In future posts, In real life I will not refer to her as an escort anymore so I wont on this board either. I have to respect the decisions people make even though I feel she shouldnt let me personal opinions reflect what she does. I am going to just refer to her as "Tiffany" which I believe is the name I made up for her in an earlier post.

 

Dean

[the_dean]

Hi All,

 

It has been hectic times but I wanted to update you guys.

 

I also want to say I DO APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK! I dont agree with all of it but I appreciate it.

 

To make a long story shot, I tried to get Tiffany completely out of my life and she would not let go. I had call friends in LE. She did manage to get one message through to me that she would never contact me again. I hope that is true. She put some venom in an email since I had her numbers blocked from all phones. I suspect she was trying to get me to reply so we would talk and make up. Instead, I made no contact and if she contacts me again, my friends in LE will help out.

 

As for my wife, we are still talking. I cant say things are going good and she knows a bit about the Tiffany situation but not the whole story. I know the point where she doesnt want to hear. The fact is she knows I had relations with her and that is all she needs to know.

 

I just want to give a warning to anyone having an affair no matter whether physical or emotional -- ending it can cause worse consequences than you may imagine. There are a lot of people that are not mentally stable.

 

Also, there are woman who will try to use you for their own reasons, etc.

 

I dont know what else to say at this point. My wife and I are trying to resolve our differences and she is starting to work out again after this whole Tiffany thing and is not taking me for granted. I have been "coming clean" to the degree to what she expected. I pretty much had a "no ask, no tell" policy with sexual relations outside of marraige.

 

My advice would be to get divorced before you start dating other people. Anyways, I have learned a valuable lesson the hard way and who knows what is to come.

 

Dean

[the_dean]

I am really trying here and am having discussions with my wife almost every night and trying to suggest things (many techniques from MC, etc) that we can do to try to get back in touch.

 

I just cannot get through the defensiveness my wife has and always has had and some of the anger issues.

 

She has been going to church for 7 hours on Sundays as she got involved with a lor of other activities with the church. She goes 3.5 hours in the morning and 3.5 hours in the evening on Sunday and 4 hours on Wednesday now.

 

I am not big on organized religion but have been a sport and gone to Sunday service more for my wife and family.

 

However, I simply suggested that maybe on Sunday evening we should spend some time working on our marriage issues or just spending the time as a family and she flies off the handle. She starts yelling "You dont care anything about anything i care about, etc." I tried to keep her calm and explained that I was just providing a suggestion. I even suggested that maybe we need the time for MC but she got mad at the suggestion. I have suggested in the past she see someone about the anger issues but she gets mad and says she doesnt have any.

 

If anyone else has suggestions on how to deal with my spouse that does have strong anger issues (and always has) then please let me know.

 

I am really trying to see if we cant connect at some level. I completely got Tiffany out of my life. I have told her I will do whatever is neccessary to improve our marriage.

 

I also have a hard time dealing with the rationalizations. I have mentioned that she has not slept in the same bed with me in 3 years and she has nothing but rationalizations. You sleep at different times (I have changed my sleeping schedule to be with hers), or something else.

 

I have found more things get accomplished when both people stay calm (even if emotional) and not start getting into yelling. I honestly do not get mad and just suggest we have this conversation at another time we she starts getting mad and throwing other gripes into the conversation just to try and be mean.

 

I guess I just cant deal with an irrational wife.

 

I am not giving up. I just know it is going to take a lot more work if we are to reconsile. I really need to get both of us to a MC as a third party would be good in this situation.

 

Dean