A Dialogue about Cross Class/ Cross Cultural Relationships

[EhiPassiko]

Hello friends...

My story:

25 year old Middle class Puerto Rican woman meets 34 year old Upper Middle Class Jewish (non religious) man. They fall in love. They shack up. They break up--- 3 times. The final time is the mutual one and they both realize, well... we gave it our all and it just won't change the facts, Jack.

 

The first time, it seemed as though I was the culprit. I had been living with demons and they came out through excessive drinking and fear. He claimed that we were in 2 different places in our lives and our differences were just insurmountable. We took some time off, NC. I made several changes in my life during that time period. I found spirituality and learned that I had been harboring fears and insecurities for as long as I can remember. I did the work and gained new perspective into my life. Somehow, he decided that he missed me months later and called to make amends. I happily accepted in my new state and knew this was the second chance I could actually salvage.

 

The 2nd time, he messed up big time. On line flirting. Explicit emails to random women. I threw in the towel this time. We talked it out and fought to keep it together.

 

This final time was the eye opener. I began to realize that while I was happy to become a member of his pretty exclusive club of wealthy Jewish people, he was not as comfortable accepting my loud, uneducated brand of Puerto Rican clansmen. He would come to my home for holidays and have such an air of arrogance and disdain that I often felt second rate in his eyes. I come from the family, class and background that I was born into. No changing that. I went to a very prestigious college on my own dime. Scraped my way up and out of a seemingly hopeless end and have made a name for myself in the fitness world, which he used to be so proud of and so very happy to assuage his own issues as a result of my dexterity and chutzpah as he used to put it, or so I thought. Needless to say, it all boiled down to a cross class disparity that I have been oblivious to my whole life.

 

Perhaps I intentionally avoided the issues of classism in this world because they are not a part of my world, mental or tactile. I have never seen so much discrimination in this man until the final days of our courtship. It was a blaring wake up call and I am all too happy to have come to the decision together that we just weren't right for each other. While we both absolutely love and adore the other, his issues with where I come from became too much in his eyes and the love that he had for me just wasn't enough to keep it together. I propose that he was more in love with the idea of me than who I actually am and what I actually come from. And he was unsure as to whether or not he was actually in love with me or not. He admitted that he was incapable of seeing past the issues and that prevented him from loving me as I loved him. While he is of Jewish culture, he is not religious and neither is his family, so I know for sure that that in and of itself was not the issue. The cross class difference, however, I think was too much for him to bear.

 

While I tend to ignore these issues of class, they clearly do exist and perhaps because I don't come from a long line of money, I just won't ever be able to see what it is that keeps people from loving someone fully based on a class distinction or any other distinction for that matter.

 

I would love to open a dialogue on this because I feel that we get swept up in movies like Maid in Manhattan (ok, I've never seen it, but I hear its very Cinderella-esque), or any old rags to riches tv show that we are oblivious to the classism facing our society each and every day. It saddens me greatly.

 

Thoughts?

 

Namaste

[blind_otter]

I'm the product of a biracial relationship that was very successful. I think that it depends on the parties involved, as to the level of success that the people in the couple can expect. My father was a very open minded, even tempered man who was extremely communicative. He was white, from a farm in KY, where there was some struggling. My mother was born and raised in a third world country - Vietnam - and she experienced a rough time growing up. A lot of poverty and struggling.

 

They had extremely different backgrounds. They came from completely different cultures. But somehow they made it work. There was a lot of racism directed towards my mother when she first moved to the states when she was 19. There was also a huge age difference. My father was 22 years older than my mother.

 

As I said before it depends on the people involved. I think mostly my Dad was the one who kept it together. He was deeply, deeply in love with my mother. And after seeing her care for him during his final months on this earth, I know now that she deeply, sincerely loved him. Don't get me wrong. They fought some times. My mother didn't understand my Dad's attachment to things from his past, and he had a drinking problem for many years...at one point they seriously contemplated divorce. Instead they moved away and started from scratch in a new town and they somehow worked it all out.

 

They were married for over 35 years before my Dad passed away, and when he did die my Mom was devestated. But they are a great example, to me, of how people from different cultures and classes can make it work, if they talk, love, support, understand, and work at it together.

[kymberann]

I think class and culture do have something to do with it. However I think past experiences really have the most influence on the outcome of relationships. However that can be turned around to explain that experience can also be culturally or class based!

 

I am caucasion, dated a guy from Guatamala for the past year. AT first it was good. We would talk about culture and the differences. We were very open to learning about each others' culture. As for class I don't typically get caught up in that.

We had a lot of cultural differences in terms of male and female or gender roles. But I think some of our problems have come from his past experience with marriage and dating. However, I don't think his experiences are culturally based, it just is what he went through. I am still trying to figure it out, if it is even worth figuring out at this point!

 

Anyway I think these differences exist because we let them exist. Perhaps it is an easy way out for some people and an easier way to lay blame when things don't work out.

[marlena]

First of all, congratulations on all that you have achieved in your life. You sound like a very intelligent, well - educated, sophisticated young lady with a lot going for you.

 

Class discrimination, whether we subscribe to it or not, has been a major factor in the dissolution of many a good relationship. We are all of course influenced by our geneological origins as well as by environmental factors. That having been said, this does not mean that we can not rise above the limitations that we are born into. And you , my dear, are a perfect example.

 

I, too, am the offspring of two uneducated, once poverty - stricken immigrant parents. What they lacked in "good breeding" they made up for in courage, perseverance, fortitude, hard work and a determination to rise above their own debilitatingcircumstances. Which they proceeded to do with great success. In just a few years time, they became very affluent, had their own home and a thick savings accout. Though proud of their accomplishments, they were even prouder of the fact that they provided excellent educations for their four children.

 

As uneducated and "crass" as they were, they taught us that "class" comes from within and has little if anything to do with one's family history or background.

 

It is a shame your boyfriend has failed to overcome his own "limitations" of prejudice and pompous, arrogant class superiority. Clearly he is his parents' child.

 

If anything, he should have supported you in his parents' eyes.

 

He may one day realize his mistake or may not.

 

I really don't know if this man deserves a third chance with someone as wonderful as you.

[RichC]

They are very different. I am European (multiple countries), African, Jamaican. Honestly it really depends one the race and culture. People coming from honor shame type cultures (Arab, Asian (including India and Pakistan)) see it mostly as a coupling of families and not individuals and think they have the overall say on whether the relationship is going to work or is honorable. Other cultures (South American, Central American, African) seem to be more open to multi racial and multi cultural connections. Most of these relationships do not work. The gulf is just too great.

[Trialbyfire]

I've seen more than enough cross-culture situations that have succeeded. I've also seen more than enough cross-class situations, fail. This appears to correlate with the OP's situation.

 

Perhaps it's the triggers and reactions to different stimuli, that cause cross-class situations to fail more often? For example, how is respect and courtesy viewed? Societally, what areas are taboo?

[EhiPassiko]

Hi all! Love the thoughts! Keep 'em coming! Nothing better than opening up a dialogue that is relevant to all of us, whether we realize it or not. I think classism affects us all in some way, shape or form.

 

One thing I do want to clarify since I think I may have left it a bit too vague is that what I'm mostly discussing is the difference between two people who do not come from the same class by birth. As I mentioned before, its the old Cinderella syndrome. Its one thing to amass a sizable bank account with someone of the same or similar class because you've done it together, not through the connections or financial backing of either of your families. If you both have not grown up privileged, the differences between you in that regard just don't exist, and vice versa. Culture can certainly be an issue if the class is different, but I think if the class is the same, the culture difference is less of an issue- in American society, anyway. What do you think?

 

Namaste!

 

Marlena- THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Your words brought me to tears. Its wonderful to hear such amazing insight on my first day on the site! Many blessings to you! (And a third chance is certainly out of the question!)

[curiousnycgirl]

It's called ignorance plain and simple. My family considers themselves to be upper middle class and/or plain upper class and we are jewish. They are the most racist, bigotted people I have ever met in my life. It is deeply ingrained in them, and rationale discussion will not sway them.

 

Good for you for realizing this is a non starter, something you can neither live with nor change. Because I can assure you he would have expected you to turn your back on your family and just walk away.

 

I am so very sorry you are going through this, but better now than later!