Blue Eyed Brain Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 OP - read through the posts and I feel for you.... It cannot be easy in a bad marriage when you have all this passion inside of you. It's no accident that you found each other. You were both looking whether you admit it or not. People find people when they are NOT getting what they need at home. Most don't like to admit it, because it lays responsibility on both parties (bs and op). But many people think they are in good relationships and not knowingly are miserable. That doesn't mean that we all screw others, it means that no-one should ever underestimate the power of denial. If this man and you truly love each other (and it seems that he does and he is very confused). Maybe between the way he has viewed married life and the way he lives with married life. We all go through the beliefs that marriage = harmony but we know the story books are Bullsh*t. People fall in love and then things can happen and we find ourselves lost but don't know if we should cut and run or stick it out. You both found each other. Now see if it can go from there.
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 OP - read through the posts and I feel for you.... It cannot be easy in a bad marriage when you have all this passion inside of you. It's no accident that you found each other. You were both looking whether you admit it or not. People find people when they are NOT getting what they need at home. Most don't like to admit it, because it lays responsibility on both parties (bs and op). But many people think they are in good relationships and not knowingly are miserable. That doesn't mean that we all screw others, it means that no-one should ever underestimate the power of denial. If this man and you truly love each other (and it seems that he does and he is very confused). Maybe between the way he has viewed married life and the way he lives with married life. We all go through the beliefs that marriage = harmony but we know the story books are Bullsh*t. People fall in love and then things can happen and we find ourselves lost but don't know if we should cut and run or stick it out. You both found each other. Now see if it can go from there. UMMM he's still married hello!!!!!! The first thing he should do is get a divorce have some respect for his wife and some self respect and do things the right way!!! And secondly you are having an affair and affairs are wrong correct? Then why are you willing to settle being the OW? If anything , now that you have found someone else, why dont you ask your husband for a divorce so you both can move on. Seperation is just a joke if your gonna move on without the other party knowing. You are selfish because your not giving any consideration towards his wife. You stated he was in an unhappy marriage right? Then why hasnt he left or how do you know his marriage is unhappy? Did you think he lied to you, because mentally your weak and would fall for it. OM tend to be predators and prey on the weak. Dont be so stupid to believe your own crap.
Owl Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 Actually, you CAN at LEAST choose who you WON'T fall in love with. When you first started feeling something for him...KNOWING you were married...KNOWING that HE was married...you could have easily put a stop to things then. When the 'crush' started...when it was just an infatuation...you could have ended it THEN...before all of this. I never buy into that "we can't choose..." thing. All of us are faced with "opportunities"...the only difference is in how we deal with them. I've met many women over the years that I "COULD" have fallen in love with. Since I'm married and already in love with someone...I've always refused to let things escalate. I take active measures to prevent them from escalating. Its a CHOICE I consciously make. I've already made a committment to someone. And I love her and have no desire to put her through that kind of pain or anguish. As an adult...I'm fully responsible for my actions and choices. The "just happened" theory doesn't fly...its ALWAYS an active choice.
Author nurd Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 OP - read through the posts and I feel for you.... It cannot be easy in a bad marriage when you have all this passion inside of you. It's no accident that you found each other. You were both looking whether you admit it or not. People find people when they are NOT getting what they need at home. Most don't like to admit it, because it lays responsibility on both parties (bs and op). But many people think they are in good relationships and not knowingly are miserable. That doesn't mean that we all screw others, it means that no-one should ever underestimate the power of denial. If this man and you truly love each other (and it seems that he does and he is very confused). Maybe between the way he has viewed married life and the way he lives with married life. We all go through the beliefs that marriage = harmony but we know the story books are Bullsh*t. People fall in love and then things can happen and we find ourselves lost but don't know if we should cut and run or stick it out. You both found each other. Now see if it can go from there. thanks. this makes a lot of sense. however, i have no choice because he still maintains he's happy, despite me knowing he isn't 100% happy or anywhere near it. xxxxxxxxxxxx
Author nurd Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 UMMM he's still married hello!!!!!! The first thing he should do is get a divorce have some respect for his wife and some self respect and do things the right way!!! And secondly you are having an affair and affairs are wrong correct? Then why are you willing to settle being the OW? If anything , now that you have found someone else, why dont you ask your husband for a divorce so you both can move on. Seperation is just a joke if your gonna move on without the other party knowing. You are selfish because your not giving any consideration towards his wife. You stated he was in an unhappy marriage right? Then why hasnt he left or how do you know his marriage is unhappy? Did you think he lied to you, because mentally your weak and would fall for it. OM tend to be predators and prey on the weak. Dont be so stupid to believe your own crap. you obviously didn't read my posts. i said he told me he was happy. we HAVEN'T had an affair and i am no longer in contact with him.
Author nurd Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 Actually, you CAN at LEAST choose who you WON'T fall in love with. When you first started feeling something for him...KNOWING you were married...KNOWING that HE was married...you could have easily put a stop to things then. When the 'crush' started...when it was just an infatuation...you could have ended it THEN...before all of this. I never buy into that "we can't choose..." thing. All of us are faced with "opportunities"...the only difference is in how we deal with them. I've met many women over the years that I "COULD" have fallen in love with. Since I'm married and already in love with someone...I've always refused to let things escalate. I take active measures to prevent them from escalating. Its a CHOICE I consciously make. I've already made a committment to someone. And I love her and have no desire to put her through that kind of pain or anguish. As an adult...I'm fully responsible for my actions and choices. The "just happened" theory doesn't fly...its ALWAYS an active choice. ok then. if that's the truth then we BOTH consciously chose to fall in love which means he isn't happy in his marriage. i'm happy with that!
Owl Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 I'm sure you are. As part of that... So you CONSCIOUSLY chose to betray your vows to your H, and to conspirate with MM to do the same? And you're good with that? How would your ex feel if he knew about that part of the end of your marriage to him? Why didn't you tell him about it, since the marriage was doomed anyway? How would MM's wife feel?
OWoman Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 Since I'm married and already in love with someone...I've always refused to let things escalate. I take active measures to prevent them from escalating. Its a CHOICE I consciously make. I've already made a committment to someone. And I love her and have no desire to put her through that kind of pain or anguish. As an adult...I'm fully responsible for my actions and choices. The "just happened" theory doesn't fly...its ALWAYS an active choice. Owl, do you think there's a difference between loving someone, and being IN LOVE with them? You've used both in this bit I've quoted and I'm not sure if you're using both to refer to the same thing, or differentiating between them? When my MM fell in love with me, I'm pretty sure he still loved his W (albeit in some residual way) but I don't think he was "in love" with her. Have you stayed "in love" with your W, or is that something that comes and goes, despite loving her throughout?
Owl Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 I think that there ARE different kinds of love feelings. I think that "in love" is a transitory feeling that typically occurs at the beginning of any relationship. Its not designed to last. It rarely last longer than the first two years or so of most relationships. It can be extended by some circumstances...an affair being a prime example of one. Its part of the biological mechanism that keeps a couple together during the difficult times when she is pregnant through the toddler phase of an infant. I think that the "in love" feeling is a physiological reaction in the body that tides us over until the longer lasting "love" feelings that most long term relationships have. A long term love feeling is MUCH different from the "in love" feelings. Its not nearly as physically intense...but its much more steady, without the uber highs and sea-bottom lows. Its the primary feeling that keeps a couple together across decades of time. Its a deep sense of comfort, trust, and knowing your partner. Its the kind of love that isn't as deeply equated to physical romance. Its the part of that same biological mechanism that's designed to keep the couple together through the years of raising their children. I also view love as an ACTION...not so much as a feeling. Its a choice in how you relate to another person. I love my wife...that means that she's also the person who I will treat with the most respect and caring above all others. How I treat her is the most important thing to me... Love is also a choice. Those feelings grow when you feed them. I think that its possible for people to "fall in love" with any number of people. But when you make a choice "to love" someone...you're forsaking all others. You're not going to 'feed' those other romantic options.
Author nurd Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 I'm sure you are. As part of that... So you CONSCIOUSLY chose to betray your vows to your H, and to conspirate with MM to do the same? And you're good with that? How would your ex feel if he knew about that part of the end of your marriage to him? Why didn't you tell him about it, since the marriage was doomed anyway? How would MM's wife feel? no, it is you that is telling ME i did that. i said i couldn't help myself but i've been told over and over by posters here that i consciously made that decision. how can i defend myself? it didn't feel like a conscious choice to me when i fell in love but i'm being repeatedly told that i DID make a conscious choice and so I am merely bowing to your greater knowledge. i am being tongue in cheek because i don't know what else to say!
Author nurd Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 p.s by the way. me and my husband didn't sleep together for eight years before we parted. he knew it was over. i knew it was over. the rest was merely a formality.
Blue Eyed Brain Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 UMMM he's still married hello!!!!!! The first thing he should do is get a divorce have some respect for his wife and some self respect and do things the right way!!! And secondly you are having an affair and affairs are wrong correct? Then why are you willing to settle being the OW? If anything , now that you have found someone else, why dont you ask your husband for a divorce so you both can move on. Seperation is just a joke if your gonna move on without the other party knowing. You are selfish because your not giving any consideration towards his wife. You stated he was in an unhappy marriage right? Then why hasnt he left or how do you know his marriage is unhappy? Did you think he lied to you, because mentally your weak and would fall for it. OM tend to be predators and prey on the weak. Dont be so stupid to believe your own crap. Wow, are you on any type of medication? It takes two to make or break a relationship - if no-one can be responsible for their bad marriages then how can they repair them. Which I think it very difficult to achieve.
Blue Eyed Brain Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 Owl, do you think there's a difference between loving someone, and being IN LOVE with them? My two cents: Yes, I believe that you can love someone but NOT be in love with them. I see it all the time and have been there.
Cobra_X30 Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 My two cents: Yes, I believe that you can love someone but NOT be in love with them. I see it all the time and have been there. It's not called love at that point... to use that line on someone is very disengenuous. BTW... I think Chrome Barracuda is more balanced and intelligent than either of us!
Owl Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 I'm curious about something... Nurd, was there not ever at any point sometime when you said to yourself "I shouldn't be doing this." "My husband would be hurt if he saw this IM/whatever." "I know this is wrong, but it feels too good to stop." ...or anything else along those lines...but then you CONTINUED to do exactly what you knew you shouldn't be doing? For another example...WHY HAVEN'T YOU TOLD YOUR EX ABOUT MM? I'm referring to a conscious choice to continue when you knew you should stop. If its over...and he agrees...it shouldn't make one little bit of difference, right?
Author nurd Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 I'm curious about something... Nurd, was there not ever at any point sometime when you said to yourself "I shouldn't be doing this." "My husband would be hurt if he saw this IM/whatever." "I know this is wrong, but it feels too good to stop." ...or anything else along those lines...but then you CONTINUED to do exactly what you knew you shouldn't be doing? For another example...WHY HAVEN'T YOU TOLD YOUR EX ABOUT MM? I'm referring to a conscious choice to continue when you knew you should stop. If its over...and he agrees...it shouldn't make one little bit of difference, right? no, yes for definite, and no. i felt my marriage was dead. i would have told him and will tell him if anything ever came of it/does come out of it. but nothing's come of it so there's little point now. if me and the mm ever got together properly then yes i would tell him for definite. why bother adding insult to injury if i didn't even commit adultery? there is little point in telling him now so i won't. and for the record, if my husband had done this to me then i wouldn't expect him to tell me either if nothing came of it. there's nothing to gain, even a clear conscience. i also would expect MY husband to leave me if he found his soul mate. I would never ever expect someone to stick with me if they had found 'the one'. i know it's painful but it's just the way i am. i wouldn't want to be with someone who loved someone else and needed to be with them so badly.
Owl Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 why bother adding insult to injury if i didn't even commit adultery Do a web search on the terms: emotional affair alienation of affection Go over to a site called "marriagebuilders", and read through the material about infidelity, emotional needs, and "the love bank". You had an emotional affair. You were emotionally unfaithful to your husband. And what you did unquestionably contributed to the end of the marriage. Now...was the marriage salveagable? Dunno. Take ownership of your part in things...it'll help you avoid finding yourself in the same situation again in the future. Regardless...I wish you the best of luck.
Author nurd Posted January 7, 2008 Author Posted January 7, 2008 Do a web search on the terms: emotional affair alienation of affection Go over to a site called "marriagebuilders", and read through the material about infidelity, emotional needs, and "the love bank". You had an emotional affair. You were emotionally unfaithful to your husband. And what you did unquestionably contributed to the end of the marriage. Now...was the marriage salveagable? Dunno. Take ownership of your part in things...it'll help you avoid finding yourself in the same situation again in the future. Regardless...I wish you the best of luck. yes, you're right, and to me, it's the worst part of it - being emotionally involved with someone else. if it had been a sexual relationship it would have been easier to recover from. i see where you are coming from. an emotional betrayal is also far worse than a sexual one. if i had a husband i adored i would be so more hurt to find out about an emotional betrayal, but then if i couldn't fulfill my partner emotionally then i would be in the wrong relationship in the first place. the worst thing i ever did in my life i think was marry my husband. i married him for completely the wrong reasons and this is what i'm guilty of. my father(who is a drunk, physical and mental abuser,and later a sexual abuser) used to dominate me completely and i married to get out of his clutches. marry in haste and repent at leisure they say. how right they were. i got married to give my child a stable background and to escape my father(which i managed to do - one positive outcome). my ex is a good person but we have absolutely nothing in common whatsoever. we can't talk, we don't have the same humour, he hates music and i love it. he doesn't want to work, and although i don't want ANY of the material things in life, i want to at least have something; social life, music, stuff for my child. we are emotionally miles apart. as well as this we cannot gel mentally. he is interested in sport and betting on horses, and watching tv. i'm not interested in any of these things. i like to debate, read books, dance, socialise. i go to university, i work. our marriage has always been doomed. i'm sorry i got married. i'm sorry i made bad judgements. I don't regret getting together with him because i have a wonderful son but I have changed over the last ten years and he remains the same. it's sad but it's true. i am no longer the person i was. he is still the same person. condemn me for that if you like, i cannot change anything. thanks for wishing me luck. it's very much appreciated!
Owl Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 i am no longer the person i was. he is still the same person. condemn me for that if you like, i cannot change anything. Not condeming you. A quote I heard once (and I'm sure I'll misquote) that I think is totally accurate. "Women marry men, hoping they'll change...but they never do. Men marry women hoping that they'll never change...but they always do."
bentnotbroken Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 (edited) ah i see where you're coming from now. well, yeah, obviously we choose the kind of people that float our boats. that is definitely a choice. we also choose whether to get to know them better or not........but there just comes a time when you go so far and then there's no going back even if you wanted to. yeah, i could have left the forum immediately as soon as i had feelings for this man and that is where i got out of control. i couldn't leave, felt compelled to stay, just as i felt compelled to keep on communicating with him and finally telling him my feelings. you know i look at it this way. just because he found his wife and they married it doesn't mean that they are the best fit to be together. he lives in a different city from me so i never had the opportunity of meeting him anyway so the odds were stacked against me weren't they? so does that mean that we can only have a limited choice? we always end up marrying/being with someone who lives in the same city. A bit unfair that isn't it? there's a whole world out there and there's supposed to be someone for everyone. so we make mistakes and just go for 'best fit' in the end because of this. I am sorry he's married. i'm sorry i married someone who was 'best fit' at the time, but i can rectify that. well i could rectify that if he would do the same. obviously he isn't prepared to rectify it despite telling me i'm his soul mate.................of course he loves his wife, respects her, is happy with her, but, as far as i'm concerned he's settling for second best. there is a gaping hole in their relationship. it's not fair on him, it's not fair on her, it's not fair on the kids, it's not fair on me but i know life's unfair. i have to accept it. what you have to accept is that not everyone is like you. people are all different with different ways of reacting to problems. so you can contain your emotions. that's great. way to go. i happen to be an extremely emotional person who has more trouble reigning them in than you do. i don't envy you, i don't dismiss you or dislike you for being different to me. we just differ is all. i wouldn't dream of criticising you for being less emotional than myself. it's just the way things are. I am an emotional person who doesn't let my emotions rule me. I have free will and I am responsible for the pain I cause just so I can get what I want. Every choice we make creates a domino effect on our lives and other lives. Our lives touch others, either in a good way or a bad way. Our choices throughout our lives show where we are and what we are becoming. Our choices tell others about us without ever saying a word. They tell what we really want, who we love, and how we think. They all show up in the choices we make. Choices also show our respect for others and whether or not we are willing to step on them to get what we want. So choices should be made with careful consideration and good judgement, because a choice made for your life effects your future and other people's future. They shoud be made with a lot of thought, a little emotion and and complete compassion. So whether you like it or not, your choices aren't ever just about you. And as far as disliking me or not, that is another choice for you to make. Edited January 8, 2008 by bentnotbroken
bentnotbroken Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 I think that there ARE different kinds of love feelings. I think that "in love" is a transitory feeling that typically occurs at the beginning of any relationship. Its not designed to last. It rarely last longer than the first two years or so of most relationships. It can be extended by some circumstances...an affair being a prime example of one. Its part of the biological mechanism that keeps a couple together during the difficult times when she is pregnant through the toddler phase of an infant. I think that the "in love" feeling is a physiological reaction in the body that tides us over until the longer lasting "love" feelings that most long term relationships have. A long term love feeling is MUCH different from the "in love" feelings. Its not nearly as physically intense...but its much more steady, without the uber highs and sea-bottom lows. Its the primary feeling that keeps a couple together across decades of time. Its a deep sense of comfort, trust, and knowing your partner. Its the kind of love that isn't as deeply equated to physical romance. Its the part of that same biological mechanism that's designed to keep the couple together through the years of raising their children. I also view love as an ACTION...not so much as a feeling. Its a choice in how you relate to another person. I love my wife...that means that she's also the person who I will treat with the most respect and caring above all others. How I treat her is the most important thing to me... Love is also a choice. Those feelings grow when you feed them. I think that its possible for people to "fall in love" with any number of people. But when you make a choice "to love" someone...you're forsaking all others. You're not going to 'feed' those other romantic options. You should just like my counselor and my pastor. I agree 100%
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Wow, are you on any type of medication? It takes two to make or break a relationship - if no-one can be responsible for their bad marriages then how can they repair them. Which I think it very difficult to achieve. No I'm not on any medication. ha! It's kind of hard repairing a marriage when your wife is supposedly in love with someone else! and is on the end of his jimmy! Three does not a marriage make.
underpants Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Nurd, I'm glad you have gone no contact with this guy. That is probably the best thing that you can do for yourself. It sounds like he was/is/may still try to ...groom you for an affair. You two talked a bunch over the internet and met a few times. You are in the process of ending your marriage. You are (sorry) ripe for the picking. I am not disparaging your feelings. I am trying to look out for you. Contact with this guy is going down a bad road. In my humble opinion. He is telling you he is happy and that he won't leave his marriage. You should believe that. Thank your lucky stars that it did not turn into more. Don't give it the opportunity to. Remain no contact with him and turn your focus on your own life and future.
Author nurd Posted January 9, 2008 Author Posted January 9, 2008 Nurd, I'm glad you have gone no contact with this guy. That is probably the best thing that you can do for yourself. It sounds like he was/is/may still try to ...groom you for an affair. You two talked a bunch over the internet and met a few times. You are in the process of ending your marriage. You are (sorry) ripe for the picking. I am not disparaging your feelings. I am trying to look out for you. Contact with this guy is going down a bad road. In my humble opinion. He is telling you he is happy and that he won't leave his marriage. You should believe that. Thank your lucky stars that it did not turn into more. Don't give it the opportunity to. Remain no contact with him and turn your focus on your own life and future. i wish that was the case. unfortunately he couldn't live with himself if he had an affair so that's never gonna happen. thanks anyway thanks for all your replies peeps. i hear you all!(((hugs)))
StillSame Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 i wish that was the case. unfortunately he couldn't live with himself if he had an affair so that's never gonna happen. thanks anyway Let me get this clear. You wish your MM have low morals and willing to participate in an affair with you?
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