memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 My wife and I seperated 6 months ago. Some the issues are: 1. She spends all day everyday with her friends. If she can be bothered to be home she ignores me completely. These people are drug dealers, drama queens and just plain trashy people that aren't generally liked in my small town. 2. She never cleans. After 3 months of separation she had maggots and fungus covering the kitchen. I had to clean it up for my child's safety. 3. She found out she was pregnant. She told another guy first and hid the news from me for a week. She wasn't saving it for an appropriate occasion. She hid it. 4. She holds my son ransom. 5. She claims everything is hers, even though she hasn't paid a dime and hasn't had a job since the month after we got married. Well on with my counseling questions. We have only had a few sessions. The subject of spending all her time with her friends has all boiled down to the the counseling telling me I'm living in fear and being controlling. The counselor sees nothing wrong with my wife being more into hanging out with a drug dealer and taking my kid over there. When we got married my wife and I took vows and made a commitment. I am the only one keeping up with them. Should I be paying someone to say its appropriate for my wife to behave like this and wave off all my concerns. It feels like the goal of counseling has become to let my wife act like a retarded teenage girl like you would see on the Maury Show. Is this the way its supposed to work? I talked to some married co-workers that I have known long enough to discuss the subject. They think I should seek a new counselor and think I am getting taken for my money. My friends put it like this. Would you really be looking at antiques with another woman for hours and ignoring your wifes request for you to come home after you hadn't seen her for a week? The answer is flat out no. I have never done counseling before and being ran over on everything really getting old.
ElvenPriestess Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Geeze. I don't want to sound judgmental here but your wife is terrible to you. Hid the fact that she was pregnant? Maggots and fungus in the kitchen? Wants to take you to the cleaners for your possessions? I am so sorry to you. The thing with this counselor I wanted to ask you, do you two see her one on one as well as together? That's a big thing that must happen. And if she's acting like a child in these sessions and you feel you can't get anywhere, you could try a new counselor but if she acts this way no matter what you may end up with the same results. I think it is very important you two see someone one on one as I mentioned already. She doesn't treat you the way a wife should treat her husband. With respect. The biggest point of therapy is to solve issues, bring it out on the table and come to an understanding and resolution. Come out of therapy better and stronger than before. But if she isn't going in there with this mind set then it's pretty much hopeless. Is she in favor of therapy? Is it something she completely supports? You both have to be on the same page with this. One, two, even ten counselors can't help her if she doesn't want to help herself.
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 Geeze. I don't want to sound judgmental here but your wife is terrible to you. Hid the fact that she was pregnant? Maggots and fungus in the kitchen? Wants to take you to the cleaners for your possessions? I am so sorry to you. Yup. The thing with this counselor I wanted to ask you, do you two see her one on one as well as together? That's a big thing that must happen. And if she's acting like a child in these sessions and you feel you can't get anywhere, you could try a new counselor but if she acts this way no matter what you may end up with the same results. I think it is very important you two see someone one on one as I mentioned already. She doesn't treat you the way a wife should treat her husband. With respect. We see her together. The biggest point of therapy is to solve issues, bring it out on the table and come to an understanding and resolution. Come out of therapy better and stronger than before. But if she isn't going in there with this mind set then it's pretty much hopeless. Yeah everyone I have talked to has told me this. I made compromises through the therapy to try and save our marriage. Is she in favor of therapy? Is it something she completely supports? You both have to be on the same page with this. One, two, even ten counselors can't help her if she doesn't want to help herself. She supports the therapy 100%. Then again who wouldn't. The counselor is siding with her. I went with the idea that yeah I will have to make compromises and work on changes to fix our relationship. My wife went in with the idea she is right. Well if the counselor wont say. "whoa thats not right" to her and instead call me controlling and tell me I'm living in fear, what would make her think differently. The counselor blew a gasket when I explained i felt extremely uncomfortable with my wife wanting to be a massage therapist. the idea of her rubbing guys all day for money bothers me. I received an over the shirt shoulder rub at work from one of our friends when I had a sore shoulder from falling on steps. My wife who worked with me, saw it and started a fight with me. It was set in stone before we ever got married that we where not to rub or be rubbed by other people in anyway. I was okay with it. it bothered her. I brought of this problem in counseling and the counselor sided with my wife across the board on the subject because our friend was a little slutty in general. (not with me) Now how do i explain to my wife that I want a new more balanced counselor without it being an argument?
ElvenPriestess Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Now how do i explain to my wife that I want a new more balanced counselor without it being an argument? Ok, first of all, I don't blame you at all for not being comfortable with that profession. And your instance at work may be mildly related but still not the same, and makes her seem hypocritical. The point of a counselor is not to take sides. The counselor should listen, advise, offer things you can both do to better yourselves. Siding will get you no where, it shows a lack of professionalism. Honestly? What I think you should do? Is one of these two. A: Go to someone recommended by a friend, a married friend would be best. B: Rather or not you can get a recommendation or not, change up the counselor. Don't tell your wife, just do it. Make an appointment with someone new. If she asks and you DO have a recommended therapist, that's what you tell her. "This person is great, so and so says they're awesome, I really wanted us to see this person so I made the appointment." If you don't then just say "I would like to get another perspective on things. See what someone else might have to say. There's no need to limit ourselves to one person." I assume you pay for these sessions not her? If that's the case, you have EVERY right to do this with out her say so. She is comfortable because she is hearing what she wants to hear, and this counselor is NOT fair to you or professional, or helping matters. She's hurting matters. I'm going to suggest you see a male counselor. I am not being sexist, I've just found that men keep a more balanced perspective on marriages, where I've had women get more emotional. I am speaking from experience on this.
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 Ok, first of all, I don't blame you at all for not being comfortable with that profession. I made a compromise on that one. I did some research and found that there where people that went for medical reasons. I can respect that. If it's what she wants I can deal with it. I may not be joyed but I need to trust her if I want to stay with her.
ElvenPriestess Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Don't take this the wrong way, but everything is about what she wants, not making her mad, keeping her with you, making sure she doesn't leave, and..... when do your needs come into play? Don't back down on something you don't want. You compromising is one thing, but never compromise your morales or comfort in your marriage. Because then when she starts actually doing this, you'll know in your heart every day you don't like it. And again, this coming from the same person who didn't like you getting a shoulder rub at work? And you said "Ok no more of that."? Come on now. Be fair to yourself. You could always ask how she would feel if it were YOU doing that for a living.
HokeyReligions Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 definately find a new counselor. Hubby & I went to several different people before we found someone we were both comfortable with. Go on your own if you want - we had sessions together and apart. If her place is as unsanitary as you say, you may end up in a fight with CPS because that is child endangerment. Massage Therapy is a reputable profession. We have a massuse twice a week at work, it's one of our perks of the workplace. Your wife's motivation for going into this profession; and the type of place she see's herself working is what you may want more information about. Do a little research yourself on what it takes to become a licensed MT and to maintain that license. That might put you at ease when discussing this with her and with future counselor(s). One of the first things we were told in counseling was "This is not 'fix Hokey' or 'fix Hokey's hubby' this is a process to help identify problems and find solutions for dealing with those problems." If you feel sided against, its time to change. Counselors are people too and there are good, bad, and indifferent people in that profession. Some have agenda's of their own. Like any doctor - if you are not happy with the treatment, or are afraid that the diagnosis is wrong you get a second or third opinion - or more.
Ronni_W Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 It feels like the goal of counseling has become to let my wife act like a retarded teenage girl like you would see on the Maury Show. Is this the way its supposed to work? NO! It is definitely not supposed to work like that!!! That is deplorable and really you ought to consider reporting him/her to whatever governing body. Whether couple or individual, you (every client) MUST feel heard and respected and, more importantly, must feel that the therapist is unbiased, objective and fair in their observations, guidance and suggestions. I urge you to find a new counselor...yesterday! Do not continue with this one even if your wife will not accompany you to someone different. Also consider EP's suggestion for individual counseling - again, choose this for yourself even if your wife doesn't think she needs it.
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 One of the first things we were told in counseling was "This is not 'fix Hokey' or 'fix Hokey's hubby' this is a process to help identify problems and find solutions for dealing with those problems." If you feel sided against, its time to change. Counselors are people too and there are good, bad, and indifferent people in that profession. Some have agenda's of their own. Like any doctor - if you are not happy with the treatment, or are afraid that the diagnosis is wrong you get a second or third opinion - or more. I called my wife to let her know I was changing counselors. She was Pi$$ed off. She really liked the sessions being so one sided. Her huge counter argument was she let me take her to play bingo once. That was obviously a sign of everything was being fixed or well on the way to. She is positive that I am going to ask any future counselors if given the situation if they see anything wrong with the situation and is it just me as a sign that I am just trying to win. She doesn't care that I have made real compromises already.
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 Thank you for all the great feedback. There was mention of a male counselor. I looked and there aren't any in my town. Is it okay to explain the situation to a counselor and ask if she will work toward a goal that pleases me as well before making an appointment? My wife says that is wrong to do. It just seems smart to me. W refuses to try anything beyond one more counselor. I need to do this right and my W is only giving me week to book an appointment.
Ronni_W Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 She is positive that I am going to ask any future counselors if given the situation if they see anything wrong with the situation ... that I am just trying to win. Well, actually...it is the role of the counselor to ask most of the questions -- so your wife doesn't have to worry about that! If you do find a counselor who is coming from a position of judging ANY situation "right" or "wrong" --- that is NOT good, professional counseling. It will be about finding someone who can help your wife come to her own realization about the negative effects of her attitude and behaviours, and then help her develop more effective life skills and habits. On your side, a good counselor will help you resolve your need to always keep the peace even at a really high cost to yourself (as EP described in an earlier post), and help you develop assertiveness, among other things. Do not go into counseling looking to be made "right" -- go in looking for permanent, win-win solutions.
Ronni_W Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Is it okay to explain the situation to a counselor and ask if she will work toward a goal that pleases me NO! That is not okay!!! And if a counselor would agree to that, report him or her at the same time you're reporting your first counselor.
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 all I really want is her to say(and mean it) "I have obviously hurt you. I'm sorry." and " I need my husband at my side especially when we have our child. I don't need to have them there I committed to you. I too can make sacrifice for our marriage." It's not about being right, its about being there for the other person.
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) NO! That is not okay!!! And if a counselor would agree to that, report him or her at the same time you're reporting your first counselor. okay bad choice of words. I meant ask if they can be unbiased. Having a counselor that wont just side with my wife is what would please me. If that also isnt okay, is there anyway to interview a counselor to find out if they are right for the couple? Edited January 5, 2008 by memnonayr
Ronni_W Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) all I really want is her to say(and mean it) "I have obviously hurt you. I'm sorry." and " I need my husband at my side especially when we have our child. I don't need to have them there I committed to you. I too can make sacrifice for our marriage." It's not about being right, its about being there for the other person. **IF** your wife has that within herself to give you, then a good counselor will help draw it out after any number of sessions. But if those sentiments do not represent your wife's feelings, wants and desires, then NOTHING can induce her to say anything like it honestly and with genuine sincerity. You have not commented on suggestions for individual counseling, which leads me to believe you are seeing this ONLY as your wife's issues and dysfunctions -- is my take on that close to being correct? Please excuse that my last post was unnecessarily harsh -- you've had a bad introduction to therapy by finding an unethical counselor and, after your follow-up post, I see where your question came from. The thing is that objectivity and non-bias are pillars of therapeutic ethics and codes of conduct -- you do not need to specifically ASK for it. Certainly, when you are BOTH in session, you ought to mention your bad experience to the new counselor and let her/him know that you are somewhat fearful of that happening again -- either against you or your wife. EDITED TO ADD: Yes. Google something like "finding a good counselor" or "questions for a therapist" (you may need to play around with the actual search term) -- there are sites that offer tips on how to interview them. Still, once you get there, go with your gut. Your wife's demand that the next one be "it" is unreasonable and unrealistic -- have all her teachers had the same level of skill and impact on her learning? SECOND EDIT: Forgot to add that many reputable therapists offer a free, 30-minute initial consult -- if they don't, IMO, that already says something about their skills and the way they practice. Edited January 5, 2008 by Ronni_W
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 Thanks Ronni! I looked into google. It lead me to the term Emotional affair. I looked it up on wikipedia. It feels like I am dealing with an emotional afair From Wikipedia: Inappropriate emotional intimacy. The partner being unfaithful may spend inappropriate or excessive time with someone of the opposite or same gender (time not shared with the faithful partner). He or she may confide more in their new “friend” than in their partner and may share more intimate emotional feelings and secrets with their new partner than with their existing spouse. Any time that an individual invests more emotionally into a relationship with someone besides their partner the existing partnership may suffer. It puts everything I have been feeling into a much clearer read.
Ronni_W Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 It puts everything I have been feeling into a much clearer read. You do make me laugh Whoa there, Bud!...don't go falling over yourself looking for labels that you can bash her over the head with!!! OTOH, if you are bent on naming all the negative behaviours in the relationship (which I really don't suggest), what are YOUR dysfunctions called? It is a good idea to have adequate and appropriate words for what you're feeling -- check out the 'basic needs' at marriagebuilders.com, and reflect upon it in terms of what YOU need and are missing (as opposed to what she needs to do and is not giving you, if you see the diff.) But labels really do nothing to help understand and resolve the consequences of the related behaviour and, like I said, the person who jumps on a label is more likely to just use it as a weapon, anyway. More constructive might be to look specifically at 'how and why' YOUR fear of conflict came into being, rather than find names for 'what' she's doing.
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) Maybe I a jumping the gun on the emotional affair. My fear of conflict. I only have this behavior with my wife maybe a few others. I would say it probably comes from conflicts never go anywhere with her. She has never been able to understand that I may have different views than her. It used to be easier to just let everything slide. If I don't agree with what she wants she says or wants I dont really love her. In the begining of our relationship I could tell her that something she would do or say didnt sit well with me. I wasn't committed to the relationship yet. When things turned long term I stopped standing up for myself because I didn't want to start a fight and ruin our relationship. Its just gone down hill from there. Edit: I looked at marriage builders. I only found basic concepts. Edited January 5, 2008 by memnonayr
Ronni_W Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 (edited) I stopped standing up for myself because I didn't want to start a fight and ruin our relationship. Right on! Combine that with preferring not to engage in a discussion that might lead to disagreement INSTEAD of being a partner in find resolution; and not knowing when you are being manipulated by another's words/actions...all of it is your part of how this whole ugly mess evolved. The inaccurate idea that "no conflict = healthy relationship" is something you learned from somewhere. Your desire to 'protect' a relationship that didn't fully respect and support your views, wants and needs was another red flag that you could have paid attention to, had you been aware to do so. (Point is, that this is NOT just all about your wife's actions and ways -- it really does take two to foul-up a relationship.) A good individual therapist will help you get to the bottom of these types of things so that they do not negatively affect you and your relationships for the rest of your life. EDIT: go to 'questionnaires' then click on the 1st one -- 'emotional needs' -- in the 1st paragraph, most important emotional needs -- they're listed at the bottom of that page Edited January 5, 2008 by Ronni_W marriagebuilders.com info
Author memnonayr Posted January 5, 2008 Author Posted January 5, 2008 I looked them over. I will look into them more closely after work tonight. I could see plenty of things my wife and I should definately work on.
OCGirl Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 Run from that therapist!! I have seen several with my husband over the years due to having to change insurances. The last one we had I tried politely to tell her she wasn't the right type and actually ended up having to walk out of the session telling her off. She tried to tell me that people can't change so if I can't live with it then I don't belong. Never have I been to a therapist that didn't try to figure out the deep root problem of why someone behaves the way they do. I mean come on, we are supposed to be human beings not human doings. RUN! Interview and ask them questions before even giving them the time of day. There are many damaging therpists out there. Beware!
DazedandConfused66 Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Therapists are humans. They are supposed to be impartial and professional in their approach to "treatments" and giving advice, but they are still human beings and some human beings are better at their jobs than others. There are bad therapists. Scratch that....there are TERRIBLE therapists who should be avoided at all costs. From your description, you have found one. I have a friend who went to a therapist with bipolar issues. He would find himself surfing Craigslist for NSA sex with strangers during his manic episodes. His therapist told him to "not beat himself up over this" as it was normal in today's world to pick up sex partners that way. No mention of the danger inherent in cruising the internet, arranging blind sex dates at seedy hotels, protection or the fact that HE WAS MARRIED!!!! It seems like the ultra-liberal therapists are the wacky ones, not the patients. You are in a no-win situation. If you stay with this therapist, your wife is getting constant reinforcement that her deplorable and non-married lifestyle choices are fine within the marriage. You should be accepting of her having friendships and spending time with same outside the marriage. I'd personally draw the line at spending time alone with single or married men, but that's a decision between the two of you. But if she spends time with lawless individuals....no way. That's endangering herself, your children and even you. Other than finding a new therapist, I don't have much to offer than sympathy. There are always two sides to a story, but you seem like a nice guy. Good luck to you. Edited January 22, 2008 by DazedandConfused66
Kenyth Posted January 22, 2008 Posted January 22, 2008 OK, counseling aside, maybe you need to find your wonkers and set some boundaries, the hard way. Do a little "What's good for the Gander is good for the Goose" therapy first. Seperate chores like dishes by day. Do them on your day. If they aren't done by the end of hers, pitch them into the trash. When you're down to using paper plates, problem solved. Pile any of her mess you find on her side of the bed. When she goes out excessively, go out yourself. Take up cigar smoking, micro-brew sampling, reading, etc. Keep as many hours logged out of the house as her. Don't be an easy babysitter target. If you feel your child is being neglected, take him/her with you someplace kid friendly and log all the hours you spend caring for them and where. It will be useful in court later when determining the temporary custody. Last resort? Divorce and go for custody. Quit paying the bills and simply take what you feel is half. They will inspect the homes and shoddy housekeeping skills will be apparent. The courts will decide on seperation of property, temporary custody, and child support pretty quickly. Remember treat incidental bad treatment with concern and care. Treat repetitive bad treatment with a bad response of equal caliber. Don't be a doormat. Don't be afraid to speak up. Don't be afraid to say no. At the same time, treat good and respectful treatment with love and tenderness. Also remember to look inside yourself for problems as well. It's very rarely completely one-sided.
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