luvmy2ns Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 There isn't a woman posting on this thread that doesn't want a man to pick up the tab for dinners and lets him too.. There also isn't a woman here that doesn't want a man to support her.. You guys are just trying to beat the OP down because she is vocalizing what really happens in the dating and courting process and the same thing that happens in life.. The man has and most likely always will ( with a few exceptions ) pay the biggest brunt during the dating and courting process.. We accept it because it is just that way and we want to get laid.. Her BF isn't doing what most guys would do.. and that is court her.. Once a woman begins to "let" a man do everything for her, she becomes beholden and subservient. None for me, thanks.
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 There isn't a woman posting on this thread that doesn't want a man to pick up the tab for dinners and lets him too.. There also isn't a woman here that doesn't want a man to support her.. You guys are just trying to beat the OP down because she is vocalizing what really happens in the dating and courting process and the same thing that happens in life.. The man has and most likely always will ( with a few exceptions ) pay the biggest brunt during the dating and courting process.. We accept it because it is just that way and we want to get laid.. Her BF isn't doing what most guys would do.. and that is court her.. I will debate your points 'til the cows come home. I will let a man pay for dinner on the first date because of his pride. Beyond that, it's an even split.
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I will debate your points 'til the cows come home. I will let a man pay for dinner on the first date because of his pride. Beyond that, it's an even split. What if the guy wants the even split before you do?.. Is he then cheap ? I think you are using the even split deal because you know he wants to pay.. you then pull the even split deal to knock him down and control the dating process ? Close?
Star Gazer Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 There isn't a woman posting on this thread that doesn't want a man to pick up the tab for dinners and lets him too.. There also isn't a woman here that doesn't want a man to support her.. You guys are just trying to beat the OP down because she is vocalizing what really happens in the dating and courting process and the same thing that happens in life.. The man has and most likely always will ( with a few exceptions ) pay the biggest brunt during the dating and courting process.. We accept it because it is just that way and we want to get laid.. Her BF isn't doing what most guys would do.. and that is court her.. Wanting and expecting are two very, very different things. I make good money, I take care of myself. If my BF whips out his card at dinner, I'm a little excited because that means (1) more money in my bank account, and (2) he's being a gentleman. If he buys me things, yay for me. If he takes me places, or goodie. But do I expect it? NO. Do I need it to feel loved? NO. What is more, LB was hoping for an engagement ring. They're discussing moving in together, seriously discussing marriage, basically planning a life together. This isn't about the first few dates, or even really "courting" anymore. This is about building a relationship, a partnership, a foundation. LB wants what you describe as BF courting behavior to continue on into marriage. That's not right. LB's concept of gender roles is very, very different from that of her BF, and I honestly don't think those attitudes will ever change.
luvmy2ns Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 What if the guy wants the even split before you do?.. Is he then cheap ? I think you are using the even split deal because you know he wants to pay.. you then pull the even split deal to knock him down and control the dating process ? Close? Wow. Talk about fabricating a situation. Sometimes my guy pays, sometimes I do. Sometimes I buy drinks, sometimes he does. We don't keep score, but we do try to keep it reasonably even. I also wouldn't use him like my own personal ATM machine. I find it very pathetic when women play the "helpless female" role.
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Wanting and expecting are two very, very different things. Good Point LB's concept of gender roles is very, very different from that of her BF, and I honestly don't think those attitudes will ever change. another good point.. they are different.. and there will most likely always be a clash between them over this too
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 What if the guy wants the even split before you do?.. Is he then cheap ? I think you are using the even split deal because you know he wants to pay.. you then pull the even split deal to knock him down and control the dating process ? Close? A guy is cheap when he doesn't want to give, just like I'm cheap when I don't want to give.
curiousnycgirl Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 AC - Wow really harsh and unfair. Let's put aside first dates - because those are not at issue here - these two have been in a relationship for a long time and are talking marriage. My b/f lost his job over 3 years ago, at the time we had only been dating 6 months. At first he very aggressively sought new employment, but due to his age and corporate "level" he could not find one. So he began working on building a new company. To say the least he has had very little income in all this time. I have paid for every single date since then, with the sole exception of my birthdays. I have also paid for every single vacation (all to see his family), every present we have given as a couple (including to his family and business partner's kids), etc. Furthermore I paid for his dog's vet bills AND the attorney's fees for his recent DWI (that is the only thing I've mentioned above that I told him that one day I expect to be paid back because that is just stupidity). I do this because I love him, because I view us as a couple and when one needs help, the other shoulders the burden. Would I like greater equity - sure, but that's just not possible right now. Later on - I sincerley hope we will get that back. Not because it will be his turn to pay, but because HE needs it for his own ego and feelings of self worth. Frankly I don't care. I've finally found someone I love - so if I had to support him for the rest of our lives, so what?! I would do it willingly.
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Wow. Talk about fabricating a situation. Sometimes my guy pays, sometimes I do. Sometimes I buy drinks, sometimes he does. We don't keep score, but we do try to keep it reasonably even. I also wouldn't use him like my own personal ATM machine. I find it very pathetic when women play the "helpless female" role. How is that fabricating a situation?.. just because it can have validity doesn't mean it was fabricated. Your relationship with your BF is the perfect one.. and the one that you will most likely see out there.. I think it is the we don't keep score part that makes it even more perfect..
luvmy2ns Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 A guy is cheap when he doesn't want to give, just like I'm cheap when I don't want to give. Well said, TBF, as usual!
melodymatters Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Ok, throwing my hat in the ring here ! I am 40 and fully expect to split all household bills, but the thought of splitting a dinner tab with the man I'm loving, sleeping with and nurturing, makes me ill. It's one thing when they are really poor, I've treated my poorer bf's in our youth, but if say, the doctor i'm kinda dating( thats a whole nother thread) was to say " Ok your share is $24.69, I'd be outta there. If you want to say I have a double standard, fine, but I also have never had a BF make me go to the doctor to help me control my blood pressure, watch my kids, or any of the other " womanly" skills I bring to the table. I agree with Art, it's about courting and being courted. Almost every species of animal, the male " courts" the female with grubs, or fish or whatever. There is nothing wrong with how LB feels, it just ain't gonna work with Mr. Even Stevens here, and THAT'S where her decision making process is going to have to come in.
luvmy2ns Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 How is that fabricating a situation?.. just because it can have validity doesn't mean it was fabricated. Your relationship with your BF is the perfect one.. and the one that you will most likely see out there.. I think it is the we don't keep score part that makes it even more perfect.. There are, I will admit, some very manipulative women (and men) out there. I wear my heart on my sleeve - often to my detriment.
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 AC - Wow really harsh and unfair. How is what I said harsh and unfair ?.. I am a guy that has dated many women form all walks of life and levels of society and background and what I posted was my experiences in dating and courting
luvmy2ns Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Ok, throwing my hat in the ring here ! I am 40 and fully expect to split all household bills, but the thought of splitting a dinner tab with the man I'm loving, sleeping with and nurturing, makes me ill. It's one thing when they are really poor, I've treated my poorer bf's in our youth, but if say, the doctor i'm kinda dating( thats a whole nother thread) was to say " Ok your share is $24.69, I'd be outta there. If you want to say I have a double standard, fine, but I also have never had a BF make me go to the doctor to help me control my blood pressure, watch my kids, or any of the other " womanly" skills I bring to the table. I agree with Art, it's about courting and being courted. Almost every species of animal, the male " courts" the female with grubs, or fish or whatever. There is nothing wrong with how LB feels, it just ain't gonna work with Mr. Even Stevens here, and THAT'S where her decision making process is going to have to come in. I'm sorry, but her attitude of "the man pays" is BS unless she wants to take on the opposing role of barefoot and pregnant.
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Well said, TBF, as usual! Thanks luv. There's a fine line between being cheap and rebelling against being taken advantage of.
curiousnycgirl Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 How is what I said harsh and unfair ?.. I am a guy that has dated many women form all walks of life and levels of society and background and what I posted was my experiences in dating and courting It was harsh and unfair because you said there was not a single woman posting here etc. I feel that is harsh, unfair, and wrong. Do I agree that most women expect a man to pay on the first date, absolutely. Would most reject a second date if the guy told her what her share of the tab was, most probably. But once into a relationship, I believe the scales even out. We are not talking about the courting stage here, we are talking about discussing/planning a future. They need to resolve these issues before making committments to eachother.
Star Gazer Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 It was harsh and unfair because you said there was not a single woman posting here etc. I feel that is harsh, unfair, and wrong. Do I agree that most women expect a man to pay on the first date, absolutely. Would most reject a second date if the guy told her what her share of the tab was, most probably. But once into a relationship, I believe the scales even out. We are not talking about the courting stage here, we are talking about discussing/planning a future. They need to resolve these issues before making committments to eachother. DING DING DING!!!
allina Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 There is nothing wrong with how LB feels, it just ain't gonna work with Mr. Even Stevens here, and THAT'S where her decision making process is going to have to come in. I wouldn't say that it can't work. I don't think LB is spoiled or ungrateful I just think she is living in sort of a fantasy land when it comes to relationships. Though she is hesitant to admit it I feel like she has this picture of a relationship where the man showers the woman with diamonds and expensive dinners, she just needs to get her feet on the ground and be a bit more realistic. At the same time her bf IS cheap (remember him wanting her to pitch in for gas to drive to her parents or she wouldn't be able to go?) and needs to relax a bit with the keeping score.
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Art_Critic, is it acceptable to demand the best of both worlds, from a man or a woman? It's like a man saying to a woman, you will support me but I also expect that you will take care of all my domestic needs.
StartingOver07 Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 (edited) There isn't a woman posting on this thread that doesn't want a man to pick up the tab for dinners and lets him too.. There also isn't a woman here that doesn't want a man to support her.. You guys are just trying to beat the OP down because she is vocalizing what really happens in the dating and courting process and the same thing that happens in life.. The man has and most likely always will ( with a few exceptions ) pay the biggest brunt during the dating and courting process.. We accept it because it is just that way and we want to get laid.. Her BF isn't doing what most guys would do.. and that is court her.. Actually, I rather enjoy being the one to pay for dinner or drinks. Point is, in a healthy relationship, a natural balance occurs. Sometimes he pays for dinner, sometimes she does. Or, if one partner has more resources than the other, perhaps the one with more resources pays while the one with fewer resources contributes in another significant way. The point is that in a partnership, both parties have their oars in the water, rowing to the same destination. That's not what appears to be happening here. LB, by her own accounting, indicates that she wants her BF to pay for the majority of their activities together because of a decision she's made not to earn more money now and also because she believes in traditional "sex (gender) roles." However, her contribution is limited to occasionally picking something up for him at the store or helping to straighten up the apartment they both spend time at. This hardly seems like an even balance to me. As for being courted, I would argue that in a healthy relationship both parties court the other, albeit in different ways. Edited January 4, 2008 by StartingOver07
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I'm the only guy posting.. damn.. it is a tough crowd in here... I'm not ignoring anyone.. I have to get some work done.. sorry to have created the debate and not be able to finish it...
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 As for being courted, I would argue that in a healthy relationship both parties court the other, albeit in different ways. I'll agree with that... A healthy relationship does have to have a balance to it.. and both parties do court each other using different ways to create excitement in the other...
luvmy2ns Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I'm the only guy posting.. damn.. it is a tough crowd in here... I'm not ignoring anyone.. I have to get some work done.. sorry to have created the debate and not be able to finish it... Whassamatter, Art? Having a little Editorial Dysfunction today?
Art_Critic Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 My grandparents were married well over 60 years before one of them passed away.. My grandmother never worked a single day... ever.. but she cooked almost all the meals.. and they many other areas of balance in their marriage..
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 My grandparents were married well over 60 years before one of them passed away.. My grandmother never worked a single day... ever.. but she cooked almost all the meals.. and they many other areas of balance in their marriage.. Your grandparents chose the traditional form of marriage. I don't see this happening with Lb but I could be wrong. If she wants a traditional role, why is she choosing a career path in school and why is she still with someone who doesn't want a traditional partner?
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