Update on other thread

[Nevermind]

I am glad to see that you had a good talk, Lauriebell. Keep it up.

 

The spreadsheet is an excellent idea...and if you're talking about it next time, you should bring it up. May I give you one further advice? Let him do one, too. So you will see how much he can really afford and will learn how much "play money" he really has.

[dropdeadlegs]

I am glad to see that you had a good talk, Lauriebell. Keep it up.

 

The spreadsheet is an excellent idea...and if you're talking about it next time, you should bring it up. May I give you one further advice? Let him do one, too. So you will see how much he can really afford and will learn how much "play money" he really has.

I agree that both should share their budgets with each other. Once the "spending money" portion is confirmed, each could contribute a percentage of their expendable income towards the recreational activities of the relationship. That figure may not be equal, but it would be fair and equitable to both parties based on current financial obligations. A change in financial status would require a revisit to the figures.

 

I can honestly say that I supported myself and two children on less than $15k, and I can also honestly say that $50k annually is not a lot of money. It all depends on one's lifestyle and spending habits.

 

As for money and control being major relationship issues, I couldn't agree more. Finding a partner with the same ideals and financial goals is crucial to long term relationship survival. Assuming these issues will resolve themselves, or that one can change another's core values, is a fool's quest. It is much easier to simply seek out a partner with qualities like one's own from the start, and not settle for anything less. Love is often blind, or at least beguiling.

 

As for you, Lb, I'm happy to hear that your discussion went well. However, keep in mind that these issues have been present for as long as I can recall in your LoveShack membership. As a psychology grad student, be mindful of what you have learned and apply it to your own set of circumstances. It is too easy to look at your own situation through a far different perspective than you would if looking at it from the outside.

 

Best wishes in '08!

[Lauriebell82]

Thanks for the replys everyone. Our talk did go real well last night. I actually really like the idea of making speadsheets of both our earnings. It seems that we both expect each to be able to pay for things. We worked things out last night, but I did like the idea of going through each other's expeditures and actually seeing how much extra money each of us has.

 

The main issue that I have is that my boyfreind has a fixed income, and I don't. I make a different amount of money each month and each year. I work a few different part time jobs and each of those pay on hourly rates not a fixed salary like my boyfriend earns. So it is hard to budget having extra money when I keep earning different amounts. And as far as what I'm making over break, I'm trying to be wary of what I spend because I have to quit working in a week and a half so I can start my unpaid internship. So wahtever money I go back to school with is what I have to live off of for the semester. So yeah I suppose I'm hoarding my money like my boyfriend says I am, but not to be selfish. I explained this to him last night and he seemed to understand so we'll see.

 

As far as him being cheap..I just don't think that's it. He isn't cheap, I mean he spends money. Like everyone else thinks it is more an issue of control. It's like if he is paying for everything for me all the time, I have control over him and he doesn't like that. He doesn't mind paying for dinners and things, but when it comes to other things such as buying something at the store, that's when he does the whole "well do you have money to pay for it?" thing. Which that is his issue again, and not mine. These are all things we talked about last night. I really hope we can stop fighting about this, I mean it's not that we disagree about how to spend money or where money shouild go, it's over who should pay for it. And I think that may be a solveable problem. Let's hope!

 

Here is something that he did say that bothered me a little though, so I'm wondering what everyone thinks. He likes to suggest things, but then expects me to pay for myself. There is something about that I don't like. I asked him why he does that and he replied that he can't afford to pay all the time. I guess I just find it strange that he will "ask me to go out" but then expect me to cough up the money. Maybe I resent the fact that he does that.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Lauriebell82

[luvmy2ns]

Since he knows you don't have much money, ANY time he suggests going out, it should be on his dime. End of story. If he doesn't like that, he should stop suggesting going out and find cheaper things to do. Cook dinner at home and rent a DVD. Go for a walk. Anything that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[Art_Critic]

Since he knows you don't have much money, ANY time he suggests going out, it should be on his dime. End of story. If he doesn't like that, he should stop suggesting going out and find cheaper things to do. Cook dinner at home and rent a DVD. Go for a walk. Anything that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

This is sound advice....

[Lauriebell82]

Since he knows you don't have much money, ANY time he suggests going out, it should be on his dime. End of story. If he doesn't like that, he should stop suggesting going out and find cheaper things to do. Cook dinner at home and rent a DVD. Go for a walk. Anything that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

And that's what he used to do which is why he hadn't had a fight about this since like April. But, this is all since I got my Christmas money and started working full time. Now he thinks he can suggest we do things again and I'll pay and he doesn't have to. I tried telling him to only suggest going out when he can pay, and he didn't like that idea so I told him if he does suggest something and then doesn't offer to pay i'll just say I don't have money. Seriously, this kid has me so confused. I mean the logical person would just think, ok my gf is trying to save her money so I'm not going to suggest doing expensive things and then not offer to foot the bill..but he doesn't think about it that way. And for the life of me, I can't understand why the hell not.

[Star Gazer]

LB - why aren't you working more during the school year to support your relationship? Perhaps your BF resents THAT fact alone...that you're basically mooching off of the fact that he works and you don't...? I mean, do you expect him to support you and the relationship if you get married? Perhaps that's also one of his fears - that you won't want to work after you get married and expect him to continue to support you?

[Nevermind]

He doesn't mind paying for dinners and things, but when it comes to other things such as buying something at the store, that's when he does the whole "well do you have money to pay for it?" thing.

 

I don't understand. Is he angry about paying for dinners or not? And what is he buying at stores that you don't pay for. You two should share the cost of groceries and other daily things as long as you're staying at his flat. He is not a motel. And your not having much money doesn't count here, because you would be spending this money on food and stuff in your own flat, too. I know it's hard, but it isn't fair to expect him to pay for every little thing. You don't have to work more to do that, I think.

[StartingOver07]

LB - why aren't you working more during the school year to support your relationship? Perhaps your BF resents THAT fact alone...that you're basically mooching off of the fact that he works and you don't...? I mean, do you expect him to support you and the relationship if you get married? Perhaps that's also one of his fears - that you won't want to work after you get married and expect him to continue to support you?

 

I asked this, too:

 

My course work is hard, and I don't have a full time job. I could have one, but I prefer to have less money to go out and concentrate more on studies than trying to maintain a full time job and full time course load.

 

Well, like I said I made a choice not to work full time. It's stressful for me, and I'd rather do better in school. It's great for other people who can work full time and have extra money, but that is not my situation. I made a choice not to have a lot of money to go out to dinner and it's something I have to deal with. I don't like my boyfriend's attitude about the issue however, and this is where we clash.

[curiousnycgirl]

LB - why aren't you working more during the school year to support your relationship? Perhaps your BF resents THAT fact alone...that you're basically mooching off of the fact that he works and you don't...? I mean, do you expect him to support you and the relationship if you get married? Perhaps that's also one of his fears - that you won't want to work after you get married and expect him to continue to support you?

 

SG - we covered that one a few pages ago - she needs to focus on school right now.

 

LB - you are contradicting yourself again. First you say he only gets upset when you are at a store and you want to buy something, but don't have the money. Then you say he suggests going out and gets upset when you can't pay your own way. Which is it?

 

If its items at a store that you want to buy - then I agree, you should pay for them. However if HE is suggesting that the two of you go out for the evening, then I agree, he should be paying. Conversely if YOU suggest you two should go out, then you should pay.

[Jilly Bean]

LB - good for you! I am encouraged to see that you were able to have a grown-up discussion about your joint issues without it getting heated (and therefore pointless). Do you think this portends of better communication continuing?

[Star Gazer]

SG - we covered that one a few pages ago - she needs to focus on school right now.

 

First, I "focused on school" while working to support myself. I'm curious why she won't, particularly given that her lack of spending money is a bone of contention.

 

That said, if school really should be her primary focus, she shouldn't be so concerned about moving in together or getting a diamond ring...both of which cost $!

 

LB's words:

I made a choice not to have a lot of money to go out to dinner and it's something I have to deal with.

 

If that's also true, then she should also be "dealing" with BF's decision to no longer spend money on her. After all, that's "his choice."

 

This relationship is looking more and more like two separate people pretending to be in a relationship...not a partnership at all, if you ask me.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Star Gazer

[Lauriebell82]

SG - we covered that one a few pages ago - she needs to focus on school right now.

 

LB - you are contradicting yourself again. First you say he only gets upset when you are at a store and you want to buy something, but don't have the money. Then you say he suggests going out and gets upset when you can't pay your own way. Which is it?

 

If its items at a store that you want to buy - then I agree, you should pay for them. However if HE is suggesting that the two of you go out for the evening, then I agree, he should be paying. Conversely if YOU suggest you two should go out, then you should pay.

 

Well, using the store is a bad example because usually we just share the cost of groceries when we are staying at his apartment. He'll ask me to pick something up, I'll ask him too..no big deal. It is more of the going out things. He said he doesn't want to restrict activities because I don't have the money to do so, so we just came up with the solution that if one of us doesn't have money to do something we will just be honest with the other person..that is fair to me. Like I said, we worked a lot out last night.

 

He's being understanding that I want to concentrate on school..and I only have one more semester left and I am done completely. We worked out a deal to compromise in the meantime and had a really great talk. So we'll see if we can work things out.

[Lauriebell82]

I don't understand. Is he angry about paying for dinners or not? And what is he buying at stores that you don't pay for. You two should share the cost of groceries and other daily things as long as you're staying at his flat. He is not a motel. And your not having much money doesn't count here, because you would be spending this money on food and stuff in your own flat, too. I know it's hard, but it isn't fair to expect him to pay for every little thing. You don't have to work more to do that, I think.

 

Like I said, the store was kind of a bad example. We do actually share the cost of groceries and things when I say at his apartment. It's more the issue of going out that is what we argue about. Like I said, we came up with some fair compromises so let's hope that helps.

[Nevermind]

Please, keep in mind that English is not my first language. So what I am saying now is not meant as an insult, but merely reader's feedback.

 

Whenever you write something about your situation and somebody takes your words to explain that there might be some fault on your side, you switch your wording or take back what you said. Now, I understand that it's hard to give a good account of what is happening via written words. Overall however, it gives (me) the impression that you're trying to set yourself in a better light. I don't recall reading something about when you did something wrong and felt bad about it. Maybe your boyfriend does that in another forum.

But I feel like I am just given half the picture. And it's really hard to find advice under such circumstances.

 

Maybe the store was a bad example because it's not happening very often. But still you gave it and that means you think he's wrong there, too. And in my opinion: he isn't. And then it is not only "his issue" but should be yours, too.

 

Again: I don't mean to be "hating", and I am not trying to be mean. Just being honest.

[Lauriebell82]

Please, keep in mind that English is not my first language. So what I am saying now is not meant as an insult, but merely reader's feedback.

 

Whenever you write something about your situation and somebody takes your words to explain that there might be some fault on your side, you switch your wording or take back what you said. Now, I understand that it's hard to give a good account of what is happening via written words. Overall however, it gives (me) the impression that you're trying to set yourself in a better light. I don't recall reading something about when you did something wrong and felt bad about it. Maybe your boyfriend does that in another forum.

But I feel like I am just given half the picture. And it's really hard to find advice under such circumstances.

 

Maybe the store was a bad example because it's not happening very often. But still you gave it and that means you think he's wrong there, too. And in my opinion: he isn't. And then it is not only "his issue" but should be yours, too.

 

Again: I don't mean to be "hating", and I am not trying to be mean. Just being honest.

 

Like I said, when I feel like I'm being ganged up on I go on the defense..which is probably what I'm doing. Look, it's not that I think that I'm completely innocent in all this. I have my faults too. We both do. All this arguing is just making me totally miserable and I'm not sure what to do. I guess it's my own issue..maybe we just have different ways of looking at who should pay in a relationship. He wants everything to be even and fair, I look at it like the man pays especially if he makes more. Maybe that is wrong, but I suppose I look at sex roles more traditionally than he does. That is our problem. We talked about that the other night and tried to come up with compromises. Maybe I feel as though when I do have money he will no longer want to treat me because he won't feel obligated anymore. He says he treats me to things because he loves me, but I guess the real issue here is that he doesn't do it out of love, but out of obligation and is resenting me for it. That's my real concern, and that's what we are fighting about.

[Nevermind]

Hopefully, I didn't gag on you. Because that was not my intention at all.

 

If I were you I wouldn't worry about him not being in love with you. He doesn't love to pay everything, that is clear. He has his own trouble and would better save some money to get rid of his debt. But he is paying anyway. There is no reason to do that, if he doesn't do it out of love. Maybe obligation is a part of it. But, as you said yourself, you are a student with a much lower income. He said often that he did it out of love for you and you said so yourself a lot, too.

 

Might the problem be that he and you have trouble communicating right? It seems as if you misunderstand each other a lot. This could be the real problem that justs manifests itself through the money issue. You had some good talks, try to keep that up and later when you're married you will find it much easier to continue the romance.

 

(Not wanting to start another round of ganging, I'd like to add one thing, though. Just because he is a man should not make him pay everything. Traditions are fine and if you want him to pay in the restaurants, that's fine. But try to achieve a certain equilibrium, once you earn money. If your income is lower, pay for cheaper dates. Cinema maybe. Or going to the zoo. Or whatever. Because traditional behaviour could also result in you being the person to wipe his ass and clean after him. His behaviour towards you will change, when you're no longer a student. Of course. If he would still be supposed to pay for everything...well...he would be right in thinking that you're taking advantage of him. I am sure you didn't mean that. But he might get this impression.)

[curiousnycgirl]

. He wants everything to be even and fair, I look at it like the man pays especially if he makes more. Maybe that is wrong, but I suppose I look at sex roles more traditionally than he does. That is our problem. We talked about that the other night and tried to come up with compromises. Maybe I feel as though when I do have money he will no longer want to treat me because he won't feel obligated anymore. He says he treats me to things because he loves me, but I guess the real issue here is that he doesn't do it out of love, but out of obligation and is resenting me for it. That's my real concern, and that's what we are fighting about.

 

 

WOW this is a whole new view that you have not shared until now. Having an old fashioned attitude that the man pays is wildly different than anything you've said before. Up until now you've said you don't have the money and that is why you can't pay. That would mean that while you have no money you hope/expect him to cover for you.

 

Now you are saying you expect him to pay because he is the man. That is so not a partnership!!!! My mother pulls this cr@p all the time. She feels his money is hers, and her money is hers. She further feels the man should pay - so what if she comes from a wealthy family, doesn't have to work and is subsidized, while he earns whatever he earns (not a lot). He should still buy her jewelry, and pay the household expenses, etc.

 

This has created a living hell in their marriage, and to be quite honest has pushed down to my siblings and I, to the point that I subsidize them too, my brother doesn't speak with them at all, and my sister just wishes it would all go away.

 

This is a huge fundamental issue. You are hoping to marry this guy. If you do then your money is his, and his money is yours!!! If you can't get your brain around that one, I think you've chosen the wrong guy, because it sounds to me like that's how he views things - share and share a like, while you expect a less equitable division of obligation.

 

As far as his feeling "obligated" to pay for you - WTF is that? You want him to treat you because he WANTS to, not because he has to. You are over 18 years of age, no one is obiligated to pay your way anymore, you are just lucky that your parents do.

 

You appear to have found a good guy - he pays for you because he loves you (which is the same as wanting to) - and your view on the traditional roles (which btw don't generally work in today's day and age) appears to be putting a huge barrier up between you guys.

 

You need to work this out in your own head.

[StartingOver07]

Whenever you write something about your situation and somebody takes your words to explain that there might be some fault on your side, you switch your wording or take back what you said. Now, I understand that it's hard to give a good account of what is happening via written words. Overall however, it gives (me) the impression that you're trying to set yourself in a better light. I don't recall reading something about when you did something wrong and felt bad about it. Maybe your boyfriend does that in another forum.

But I feel like I am just given half the picture. And it's really hard to find advice under such circumstances.

 

I agree. At the risk of being called a "hater" I will say that I find Laurie to be disingenuous. It's hard for me to get my mind around the fact that someone who is in her mid-20's (I think she is 26 or so?) and studying to be a therapist, no less, is as guileless as she appears to be. I think Laurie has a vested interest in being perceived as the victim in this relationship and when she slips and says something to show that she is very much actively involved in creating the situations that exist, she back-peddles until her bf is once again the villain of the piece.

[Star Gazer]

I don't mean to be a "hater" or perceived as someone who's ganging up on you, LB...but my position on this money issue has remained the same throughout your time here on LS. This is, and always has been, a problem YOU created through YOUR expectations. Your BF wants things to be fair, you do NOT.

 

Like I said, when I feel like I'm being ganged up on I go on the defense..which is probably what I'm doing. Look, it's not that I think that I'm completely innocent in all this. I have my faults too. We both do. All this arguing is just making me totally miserable and I'm not sure what to do. I guess it's my own issue..maybe we just have different ways of looking at who should pay in a relationship. He wants everything to be even and fair, I look at it like the man pays especially if he makes more. Maybe that is wrong, but I suppose I look at sex roles more traditionally than he does. That is our problem. We talked about that the other night and tried to come up with compromises. Maybe I feel as though when I do have money he will no longer want to treat me because he won't feel obligated anymore. He says he treats me to things because he loves me, but I guess the real issue here is that he doesn't do it out of love, but out of obligation and is resenting me for it. That's my real concern, and that's what we are fighting about.

 

I am SO not surprised. I knew it all along. You are NOT destitute, and you do EXPECT him to pay just because he's the man in the relationship. You feel he SHOULD be obligated to pay for you, while you hoard your money...but guess what? He's NOT obligated. You aren't entitled to a thing! You are actively avoiding a partnership with your BF, LB, and that is what a real, solid relationship is.

 

This is a huge fundamental issue. You are hoping to marry this guy. If you do then your money is his, and his money is yours!!! If you can't get your brain around that one, I think you've chosen the wrong guy, because it sounds to me like that's how he views things - share and share a like, while you expect a [LOT!] less equitable division of obligation.

 

You appear to have found a good guy - he pays for you because he loves you (which is the same as wanting to) - and your view on the traditional roles (which btw don't generally work in today's day and age) appears to be putting a huge barrier up between you guys.

 

I agree. The problem is honestly YOURS, LB. Your BF is being perfectly reasonable here.

 

With all his comments about you taking him for granted, calling you spoiled, and your own expectations of him paying for everything and expecting a ring...you're really becoming a spoiled princess. If you don't change your attitude about this, you will continue to be miserable....forever.

[Trialbyfire]

Like I said, when I feel like I'm being ganged up on I go on the defense..which is probably what I'm doing. Look, it's not that I think that I'm completely innocent in all this. I have my faults too. We both do. All this arguing is just making me totally miserable and I'm not sure what to do. I guess it's my own issue..maybe we just have different ways of looking at who should pay in a relationship. He wants everything to be even and fair, I look at it like the man pays especially if he makes more. Maybe that is wrong, but I suppose I look at sex roles more traditionally than he does. That is our problem. We talked about that the other night and tried to come up with compromises. Maybe I feel as though when I do have money he will no longer want to treat me because he won't feel obligated anymore. He says he treats me to things because he loves me, but I guess the real issue here is that he doesn't do it out of love, but out of obligation and is resenting me for it. That's my real concern, and that's what we are fighting about.

This is a serious incompatibility, unless one of the two of you changes your perception of what is realistic.

 

Might I ask why a man needs to support you? You're working on a career as a therapist. Why are you doing this, if not to share equally in expenses? If you think of traditional roles, the woman stays home, pops out babies and cares subserviently for the man in his castle, ensuring that all his needs are met. I don't see you taking on that role at all but want all the perks of the role. What's wrong with this picture?

[Star Gazer]

Traditions are fine and if you want him to pay in the restaurants, that's fine. But try to achieve a certain equilibrium, once you earn money. If your income is lower, pay for cheaper dates. Cinema maybe. Or going to the zoo. Or whatever. Because traditional behaviour could also result in you being the person to wipe his ass and clean after him. His behaviour towards you will change, when you're no longer a student. Of course. If he would still be supposed to pay for everything...well...he would be right in thinking that you're taking advantage of him. I am sure you didn't mean that. But he might get this impression.

 

Good points there. Once LB is out of school, he WILL expect that she contributes - this is obvious from his change in patience and understanding once she earned money and received some for Christmas.

[Star Gazer]

This is a serious incompatibility, unless one of the two of you changes your perception of what is realistic.

 

Might I ask why a man needs to support you? You're working on a career as a therapist. Why are you doing this, if not to share equally in expenses? If you think of traditional roles, the woman stays home, pops out babies and cares subserviently for the man in his castle, ensuring that all his needs are met. I don't see you taking on that role at all but want all the perks of the role. What's wrong with this picture?

 

Serious, serious incompatibility.

 

What I find interesting here is the dichotomy LB faces in working to become a therapist (one who presumably would encourage and help others to support themselves and find equal partnerships/relationships in life), while simultaneously expecting to feed off the benefits of a relationship where there is no partnership at all.

[Art_Critic]

There isn't a woman posting on this thread that doesn't want a man to pick up the tab for dinners and lets him too..

 

There also isn't a woman here that doesn't want a man to support her..

You guys are just trying to beat the OP down because she is vocalizing what really happens in the dating and courting process and the same thing that happens in life..

The man has and most likely always will ( with a few exceptions ) pay the biggest brunt during the dating and courting process..

 

We accept it because it is just that way and we want to get laid..

 

Her BF isn't doing what most guys would do.. and that is court her..

[luvmy2ns]

...and if a woman wants to be treated as equal to her man, she'd better start acting equal!