Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 L_b, here's my perspective since I think I might understand where your guy is coming from. Of course, you are welcome to dispute this, as is your right. Sometimes, I'm generous to a fault, in that I insist on paying for things, probably more than my fair share. I keep doing this because I enjoy giving to people and also like to feel financially independent. The problem lies in when I start to feel taken advantage of. I don't feel I should have to tell someone to anty up their share. When this happens, not only am I battling with my annoyance at that person, I'm also battling resentment that I should have to say anything.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 L_b, here's my perspective since I think I might understand where your guy is coming from. Of course, you are welcome to dispute this, as is your right. Sometimes, I'm generous to a fault, in that I insist on paying for things, probably more than my fair share. I keep doing this because I enjoy giving to people and also like to feel financially independent. The problem lies in when I start to feel taken advantage of. I don't feel I should have to tell someone to anty up their share. When this happens, not only am I battling with my annoyance at that person, I'm also battling resentment that I should have to say anything. Well, the issue is that I really don't have extra money to spend on taking him out all the time, and he is working and wants to go out and do things. I'm not hoarding money from him, it's just not money to be spent on restaurants and things..it's money to drive my car and feed myself. He gets annoyed that I don't offer to pay all the time, so thats when he does the whole "well can you pony up your share" stuff. And thats when we fight.
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Well, the issue is that I really don't have extra money to spend on taking him out all the time, and he is working and wants to go out and do things. I'm not hoarding money from him, it's just not money to be spent on restaurants and things..it's money to drive my car and feed myself. He gets annoyed that I don't offer to pay all the time, so thats when he does the whole "well can you pony up your share" stuff. And thats when we fight. This is where it goes back to the fact that he's in debt and you're not. Just push him back on going out. Let him know that you'd prefer he pay down his student loan, rather than spend it frivolously, by going out all the time. A nice dinner out, once every blue moon, is always welcome. I'm guessing you can afford to buck up for that, every other time.
Nevermind Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 It's all about who pays, blah blah blah.That's easy for you to get all annoyed. It's not your problem and not your money. "pay your share" crap his obsession with fairnessOh, LaurieBell. Doesn't the therapist in you scream out loud, now? How can you be so one-sided on this? How can you not see that you're applying double standarts? Your behaviour here troubles me. Are you like this to your boyfriend, too?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 This is where it goes back to the fact that he's in debt and you're not. Just push him back on going out. Let him know that you'd prefer he pay down his student loan, rather than spend it frivolously, by going out all the time. A nice dinner out, once every blue moon, is always welcome. I'm guessing you can afford to buck up for that, every other time. And thats something we talked about. We agreed we would cut down on the going out stuff. Actually we went to the store the other night and bought a whole bunch of food (split the cost of it) and we make dinner together at night. So it's really nice. I hate the you pay/I pay crap I hope it stops!
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 And thats something we talked about. We agreed we would cut down on the going out stuff. Actually we went to the store the other night and bought a whole bunch of food (split the cost of it) and we make dinner together at night. So it's really nice. I hate the you pay/I pay crap I hope it stops! Cool, a good place to start. As long as your b/f doesn't feel taken advantage of, I doubt it will come up again. If he does feel taken advantage of, you can bet it will. Reasonable expectations for both of you.
Krytie TV Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I hate the you pay/I pay crap I hope it stops! It won't, and that's where you face a serious issue in your relationship.
sunshinegirl Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I just think it's a little unromantic to ask your gf to "pay her share." To me dating shouldn't be like that. You clearly have expectations around what is romantic and what isn't romantic, and to you, it's not romantic for a guy to ask his girlfriend to pitch in. That sounds a lot to me like you expect him to pay. So, from my reading, you pretty much contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Look, people are getting on your case because you don't seem to be acknowledging your half of this problem. Your BF was a big dick back when he asked you to pay half for the gas on that road trip or whatever a few months ago. No question. The problem is that you seem to want to paint this issue with a black-and-white brush ("ugh, he just goes so 'accountant' on me sometimes!") when most people here can see that you are contributing to the dynamic (and you won't acknowledge it).
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 You clearly have expectations around what is romantic and what isn't romantic, and to you, it's not romantic for a guy to ask his girlfriend to pitch in. That sounds a lot to me like you expect him to pay. So, from my reading, you pretty much contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Look, people are getting on your case because you don't seem to be acknowledging your half of this problem. Your BF was a big dick back when he asked you to pay half for the gas on that road trip or whatever a few months ago. No question. The problem is that you seem to want to paint this issue with a black-and-white brush ("ugh, he just goes so 'accountant' on me sometimes!") when most people here can see that you are contributing to the dynamic (and you won't acknowledge it). What dynamic am I contributing to? Maybe I'm not aware of what everyone else sees and I don't.
Nevermind Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I am not sure if I can be supportive to you now, LaurieBell. To me your last posts were...wrong. You were being mean, and insulting to your boyfriend. You said his behaviour was crap. Would you like him to do that behind your back? No. You want to be the victim here and if nobody else accuses your boyfriend you'll do it yourself. You are not being honest and open. Over this thread you've been contradicting yourself with every other post. I don't know your situation and I don' feel that I can give you what you want: approval. I don't want to be negative, so I'll refrain from posting here till I can see clearer.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 I am not sure if I can be supportive to you now, LaurieBell. To me your last posts were...wrong. You were being mean, and insulting to your boyfriend. You said his behaviour was crap. Would you like him to do that behind your back? No. You want to be the victim here and if nobody else accuses your boyfriend you'll do it yourself. You are not being honest and open. Over this thread you've been contradicting yourself with every other post. I don't know your situation and I don' feel that I can give you what you want: approval. I don't want to be negative, so I'll refrain from posting here till I can see clearer. I don't understand. I didn't mean to insult him..he probably thinks some of my behavior is crap too. Would you want someone you are dating to ask you to "pay your way?" Probably not. I suppose I'm not giving myself off in a very good light so I think I'll leave.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 I don't feel like I'm being helped here, I feel like I'm being criticized. Somebody please enlighten me here.
corazoncito Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 LB, if you were not in a relationship, but all of your other financial circumstances were equal: Would you expect your friends to always pick up the tab when you do things together (since they are working and have "extra" money)? If you wouldn't expect friends to pay for you, would you stay at home everyday and never go out? Would you be more likely to consider working more to earn more money?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 LB, if you were not in a relationship, but all of your other financial circumstances were equal: Would you expect your friends to always pick up the tab when you do things together (since they are working and have "extra" money)? If you wouldn't expect friends to pay for you, would you stay at home everyday and never go out? Would you be more likely to consider working more to earn more money? Wow, you sound like my boyfriend. Actually my best friend gives me a hard time about not having extra money either. I try to limit my going out because I need to have money for food and gas. It's not like I'm a hermit, I just don't go out every weekend and spend a ton of money..and that's ok with me.
Trialbyfire Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Wow, you sound like my boyfriend. Actually my best friend gives me a hard time about not having extra money either. I try to limit my going out because I need to have money for food and gas. It's not like I'm a hermit, I just don't go out every weekend and spend a ton of money..and that's ok with me. Does your best friend pay for you?
Saxis Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I don't understand. I didn't mean to insult him..he probably thinks some of my behavior is crap too. Would you want someone you are dating to ask you to "pay your way?" Probably not. They wouldn't have to. I'd pay my own way or I wouldn't go at all. Of course there's exceptions if we agree...
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 Does your best friend pay for you? No, unless we are going out for like my birthday or something she will buy me drinks. But no, she doesn't and I really don't expect her to.
corazoncito Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Wow, you sound like my boyfriend. Actually my best friend gives me a hard time about not having extra money either. I try to limit my going out because I need to have money for food and gas. It's not like I'm a hermit, I just don't go out every weekend and spend a ton of money..and that's ok with me. I wasn't trying to be snarky with those questions. I was honestly curious and am just trying to understand where you both are coming from. I've been to grad school and understand wanting to keep spending low, but it's ok to spend moderately on entertainment once in a while. It's like an investment in the emotional side of the relationship. I think your b/f needs to dial-down the expensive dinners at restaurants with valet parking, but I don't blame him for wanting to get a change of scenary and not just be at home all the time. Some people really need that. But it doesn't have to be something pricey. Cooking dinners at home is a great start for spending time together more economically, but I think you both should also brainstorm some less conventional ways to get out of the house without dropping a lot of cash.
latefragment Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Why is everyone forgetting that LB's boyfriend is ALWAYS the one wanting to go out to expensive dinners? *Then* he expects her to pay like, her half, or half the time, or something. I mean, I personally am female and I love treating guys I'm dating to meals and such, I love whipping out my credit card and saying, "this one's on me, you get next time" (though I definitely agree with Art Critic on some level that, if it's the first or second date and the guy is splitting the bill right down the middle, that will really irk me. Unless I know he is broke or unemployed or something). But, all that is kind of besides the point. I understand LB's desire to have the man always pay (I don't agree with it, but I understand it) but I feel like everyone is ignoring the fact that HE is Always the one Suggesting that They Go Out. LB, do you ever protest when he suggests going out? Or do you just go along with it without saying something like, "I can't afford to go to that place tonight." LB, is it true that you *never* suggest going somewhere to eat, that you *always* suggest eating something simple at home? If so, then I think he is being a whiny crybaby about her never paying.
Touche Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Laurie, I really don't think there's a right or wrong here. I actually understand where you're coming from. I do. Personally, like I've said before though, I was never one to let the guy pay all the time. But you said that you don't. That's good. The problem is that you both don't see this the same way. This has already been pointed out. You're never going to like the "score-keeping" on his part (and I don't blame you...not an attractive trait in a mate:sick:) and he's never going to like that you won't kick in more. I mean you said you have one semester left though. Do you think it will change then? Have you talked about it?
Kamille Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 I've been following this thread awhile, trying to figure out what I could contribute, since I have been in two serious relaitonship since starting grad school 5 years ago (time I be done I think) and have been the 'poor' partner in both these situations. I considered myself lucky in both these situations because I was (and am) with men who had a 'we're in this together' attitude. Meaning, I was thankful for the actual security being with them provided me. I knew, if I really hit a dry spot, that they would help me out - by loaning me money for expenditures and by springing for lunch and dinner. When I had money, I would therefore behave like we had equal means, paying my part of outings (buying the movie tickets if bought dinner, etc) and definitely buying my own clothes, etc. I wonder if your bf's mentality might not be closer to my ex and current bf'd and mine. In a way, while we kept separate accounts, our income was always kind of pooled. To my benefit (and peace of mind). So, in this way, I could see why he would get upset that you ask for 7$ back and why he might hope you could spend some of the money you got for Christmas on him: because no matter what you spend now on him (or the two of you now), you will get it back when you're strapped. I might be wrong. But it's just a thought. I know I enjoyed it and was always mindful of trying to recognize what my partner did for me, financially or otherwise. Also, you seem to be good with your money. Maybe if you start applying your budgeting skills to your combined income, it would relieve some of his financial stress.
sunshinegirl Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 What dynamic am I contributing to? Maybe I'm not aware of what everyone else sees and I don't. By dynamic I mean the bad cycles of argument you and your BF get into over money matters. From what I can tell, your contribution to the dynamic comes from two places: (1) your (in)ability to financially contribute. I think most of us readers are unclear about your true financial situation and suspect that you may actually be able to pay more than you are - the math doesn't add up. If we are confused by how you explain your financial situation, chances are your boyfriend is too... which may be causing some of his resentful / 'accountant'-like behaviors. But more importantly, (2) you have a sense of expectation around who should pay for things --i.e. your boyfriend. So even if you *did* have money, you would still consider it unromantic for him to ask you to pay your share. If we can pick this attitude up, again, chances are your boyfriend does too. Which, again, may be causing him to feel taken advantage of / resentful / etc. LB, you and he are locked in a system of behaviors that trigger each of you and reinforce the already bad dynamic you're in. He feels taken advantage of thanks to (1) and (2) above, and starts to get controlling and penny-pinching with you, which makes you defend your pennilessness and reiterate how crummy a boyfriend he is for not being romantic and paying for you. Which makes him feel taken advantage of...etc etc etc. Do you see it yet? If it's a system you're locked in, why do you want him to do all the changing? That's not fair. Plus, you can't control him, or his choices, or how he feels about paying for you so much. You can only control yourself. So if you really want there to be change in your relationship, I'd suggest you consider changing one or both of your contributions as listed above. If you really want to get out of this cycle, take the lead in trying to break it!
corazoncito Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 I considered myself lucky in both these situations because I was (and am) with men who had a 'we're in this together' attitude. Meaning, I was thankful for the actual security being with them provided me. I knew, if I really hit a dry spot, that they would help me out - by loaning me money for expenditures and by springing for lunch and dinner. When I had money, I would therefore behave like we had equal means, paying my part of outings (buying the movie tickets if bought dinner, etc) and definitely buying my own clothes, etc. Well said Kamille. I was kind of thinking along these lines but couldn't put it into words as well as you did. Reciprocity is important to humans. It doesn't have to be a strict 50-50 exchange, but I think most of us have an innate need to feel that we can expect a modicum of help in return from those we give to. My grad school was in Anthropology and there are many studies of non-human primates that demonstrate that when members of the community perceive that there is an individual who consistently takes without giving, it causes a lot of social stress and fighting. On the other hand, individuals will go out of their way to help others if they have memories of being helped by them in the past, even if it wasn't completely equitable. I'm not saying LB or her b/f are monkeys or that she never gives, but I think that as long as her b/f perceives that he's giving in a one-way arrangement, there will be problems. Maybe they can work out a system for sharing that makes him feel better without it actually have to be 50-50. The idea that she's contributing something regularly (even if it's just paying for parking when they go out, or paying for movie tickets/rentals every 4th time) may make a big difference for her b/f's perceptions.
Touche Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Sunshine girl, excellent post! I think you got it. What it boils down to is, I think, that Laurie might be too much one way, and b/f too much the other way. They need to find a way to meet in the middle. As I said, I don't even think it's a question of one being right and the other wrong, it's just that they're not on the same page at ALL on this subject. Laurie, if you can meet in the middle, you've got a chance, if not this will always be a problem I think. But I would like to know if you talked about things and how they will be when you're through with school. If you're moving in together, you really can't have the attitude of that it's "your" money anymore.
corazoncito Posted January 5, 2008 Posted January 5, 2008 Just a thought, but what if you two had a joint account only for entertainment purposes? You could set a monthly budget for going out, decide how much each will contribute each month to that fund, and stick to it! When the money is gone, you're done. That way you're spending more responsibly and since it's coming out of one merged fund there isn't a lot of back and forth on "shares". You don't even need a bank account. You could just set aside an envelope with cash at the beginning of each month if you want to be low-tech. When it's empty you're staying home until next month.
Recommended Posts