stillafool Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 I don't advocate cheating but his W had no business telling the kids the way she did. I know most wives feel the H is cheating on the entire family. A man may fall out of love with his W but he still loves his kids and mothers need to tell the kids that their father still loves them. I hate it when women use their kids to their advantage. Also I would think this would be your dream come true. Why are you upset that they know your name? They are going to find out anyway aren't they? One other thing - don't be surprised if they go back together. The W is playing it smart by not trying to hold on to him. He may start to take a second look at her and wonder why. Just don't be surprised if he goes back.
Owl Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 His wife should have absolutely told the kids that their father was involved with CMC. She also was completely right for telling her kids that what he's doing is WRONG. We don't know for sure what language was used, or how any of this was actually told to them. But the bottom line is that they DO need to learn that its NOT ok to cheat. They also deserve to know the truth of what's going on...what's pending the imminent destruction of their family life as they know it. My kids were 15 and 17 when my wife was involved in her EA. When confronted, she was all set to move out. I insisted that she tell the kids the truth of why she was leaving, where she was going, and what she'd been doing. I didn't sit in the room with them when she did so. I let her tell it 'her way'. It didn't matter. They were FURIOUS with her. Rightfully so. They had suspected something along these lines was going on already...it was obvious from the way she'd been treating me (and to a lesser degree, the kids) for the last several months prior to getting caught. CMC- Right now, the best thing you can do is to focus on taking care of yourself. Let HIM sort out his marriage and his family. This is going to be heck on YOU emotionally through this rollercoaster ride...take some time to think things through about how you think that things need to proceed with you and him...and his kids. Give that some thought, make some tentative plans (boundaries)...and focus on taking care of yourself right now. As far as her telling the kids that it was you...or him telling her that it was you....this was INEVITABLE. It was going to come out in the wash. Its all a consequence of what's been going on. I'm not even sure why you're upset about that part of it...they were going to find out eventually. You KNEW that your name was going to come up...why does it matter that it did?
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 CMC, are you scared that his wife is going to call you? Is that something that you're worried about now?
NoIDidn't Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 I agree with Owl on so many points. She SHOULD have told the children, he obviously wasn't. And the language used, I doubt very seriously that he told the truth of how she told it. What she did actually did protect her children from any further LIES her H was going to try to tell them. And the name being revealed thing? Whatever!! I am always amazed at this HUGE amount of hypocrisy. Come on!!!! He spent all this time telling you her faults and other personal business and you are mad because she knows your NAME!!! Its time to accept responsibility for your part in this drama. Your name is only the beginning of it. Sucks that he did it on New Years. Did you two really have sex in an elevator? Interesting....
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 You should be very cautious IMO. For a W to be told on New Years Day, to lose her temper so much that she allegedly tells the children in no uncertain terms about her Hs affair, to talk it through in, what? A day? And then forgive him and happily move on? No anger for him or you? Happy to make sure your jobs are not affected? IMO you have a very very long journey ahead of you. W will be in shock. She still has to ride through anger, denial, loss, grief, devastation, fear, confusion and then hopefully somewhere, healing. I very much doubt this is going to happen in such a short time. And she is going to have a gameplan of sorts - and why not? Her life is changing because of his and your actions - anyone would have a gameplan and I doubt you will see anything transpire in the next few days. I know you have a million questions. But, if what your MM says is true and the situation is as you have described - then his whole existence has changed in one day. And I know, if I put myself into his shoes, I'd hope that the person I was changing my life to be with would understand that I needed some space and time to get myself back on an even keel and somehow repair/smooth the havoc that I have created in the lives of those I love. That a million questions won't really help right now, because as his emotions change from one minute to the next, so will his answers. I dont want to sound out of turn, but it is occurring to me - you sound a little like you have cold feet about the situation yourself. I did, when my MM first told me he was leaving. I had absolutely nothing but fear that welled up inside of me and I basically sabotaged the first time he planned to leave through my very own cold feet - which surprised no-one more than me! Is this happening to you?
White Flower Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 Ummm, yeah it does when the OP is a factor in the demise of the M. It sounds to me that the M was in its demise long before he turned to CMC. I think he needed the love and strength from her to actually do it.
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 I agree with Owl on so many points. She SHOULD have told the children, he obviously wasn't. And the language used, I doubt very seriously that he told the truth of how she told it. What she did actually did protect her children from any further LIES her H was going to try to tell them. As with all threads, we can only answer really the elements of the story that the OP tells us. We cant really doubt the truth of the way she told it because it could have happened and there's no evidence that it didnt. My MMs W got her 12 year old daughter to call me while in the background shouting "Tell the *** to leave your *** father alone!" Certainly opened my eyes as to how powerful a child can be when controlling your spouses actions, yet also how eventually the parent who uses a child to express the pain they are in eventually will turn on the child itself "You go and live with your father if you're going to stick up for him!". I only thought things like that happened on Jerry Springer until I heard it with my own ears. The W has every right to tell her own children what she wants - but from a moral position, the W should have possibly not used the children as an extension of her marriage and instead a separate entity where the children are told by both parents. The H should not have started this discussion when the children were in the house. They're both wrong on this count IMO
underpants Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 What kind of man needs strenght from an outside party to do what he believes is the right thing. If her strenght and love were so great and uplifting, why didn't he tell his wife he was leaving long before the sex in the elevator incident? What he needed was a safety net, and she gave it to him. A mature adult ends one relationship before starting another. I agree whole heartedly with the bolded part. I do not know what having sex in an elevator has to do with the price of tea in China though?
Mino Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Okay, before this turns into an OW vs BS thread, let's just stop going down that path and go the other way. Each of them played a part in this mess, and the OP needs some help in HOW to cope and deal with things now. What's done is done, it's out of her hands completely. That was the question she was asking, for help, thanks for putting this thread back on track, That is what this forum is for , right? Help:o
Mino Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Isn't it clear that he doens't really care much about you? When things get tough, he drags you down with him or as you and others put it, throw you under the bus. The bottom line is, when things get tough, he failed to protect you. Why do you say he threw her under the bus, I say " I am proud of you mm, for finally becoming honest. Seems to me MM/MW can never win. They FINALLY grow some balls to tell BS there true feelings, They come clean, and then they get yelled at for throwing you under the bus. Why dont you just support him now , he finally is true to himself and everyone else. He will need your love and support,
GreenEyedLady Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Why do you say he threw her under the bus, I say " I am proud of you mm, for finally becoming honest. Seems to me MM/MW can never win. They FINALLY grow some balls to tell BS there true feelings, They come clean, and then they get yelled at for throwing you under the bus. Why dont you just support him now , he finally is true to himself and everyone else. He will need your love and support, Yeah, you hear it everyday here. "If he loves you nothing will stop him." Then when the MP does leave, it is "What a slime. How could he do that to his family?" WTH?! Look people, sometimes people fall in love with their AP and they leave their M...It happens quite often, no matter what statistics are quoted. Isn't it better to let the BS find someone who loves her and will be true to her? If the WS wants out, then let them out. And quit the morality speech, obviously it's not a deterrent...
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 You are so right the "morality speech" isn't a deterrent. But it not being a deterrent shouldn't stop people from stating their belief in morals. As it is clear that other beliefs or lack thereof are quoted as reasons for doing what feels good to them. Doing things that might make you happy isnt always a good thing. It might feel good to murder someone outta the basis of power and hate but yet, we dont condone it as a society do we? I mean if we start condoning adultery left and right, why dont we just abolish marriage. Why not just tell the children, hey your daddy is a rolling stone, he aint gonna be there for you. When he meets an OW he will leave your mother because he doesnt have the balls to stay and keep his commitments. To you, your family, your mom and himself. That's the truth. You know I'm not for adultery. in any form. There's a right way and a wrong way of doing things. The MM could have just filed for divorce, and waited until he saw the OW. The OW was his escape clause and it is what it is. If people were more honest about themselves and their selfishness the world would be a better place. I mean why get married to someone if your going to leave anyways?
Frances Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Yeah, you hear it everyday here. "If he loves you nothing will stop him." Then when the MP does leave, it is "What a slime. How could he do that to his family?" WTH?! Isn't it better to let the BS find someone who loves her and will be true to her? If the WS wants out, then let them out. And quit the morality speech, obviously it's not a deterrent... So this is all for the BS's benefit so that she can find someone else. How come he never seems to think of that before the affair starts? In most cases the mm has no intentions of leaving the marriage. He is amusing himself at two womens expense and in the bs's case she does not have any say in the matter. Because morality is not a deterrent does this mean we can not aspire to it.
Chrome Barracuda Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 You do know I was being sarcastic, right? LMAO!!!!
GreenEyedLady Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 So this is all for the BS's benefit so that she can find someone else. How come he never seems to think of that before the affair starts? In most cases the mm has no intentions of leaving the marriage. He is amusing himself at two womens expense and in the bs's case she does not have any say in the matter. Because morality is not a deterrent does this mean we can not aspire to it. The BS has plenty of say, she can say "I'm not putting up with this."...Just the same way the OW can... Who knows anyone's intentions? And the fact of that matter is that over time, they change...Maybe that's what the BS's biggest fear is...That although his intention in the beginning was not to leave, becomes just that...
Virgo1982 Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Ummm, yeah it does when the OP is a factor in the demise of the M. Well what makes the difference between an affair that ends a M and an M that survives an affair?
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 3, 2008 Author Posted January 3, 2008 I guess I'd like to share more details so you can make your own opinions... I do appreciate those giving me advice on how to move FORWARD and not judging me on my actions. I realize that our A was wrong and that we both will be suffering those consequences. I don't need any more lectures, trust me..... His W is not completely innocent either.... granted, she never had a PA but she had been having an EA for at least 2 years with an old high school exBF she re-connected with. They spoke daily for hours at a time (she was a stay-at-home mom) and had dinners, lunches, he made her cd's to listen to... I mean, it sounds like she was doing everything but the physical with this guy. So is that really different!?!? (Honest question....) She is a highly religious person, and told MM she sought advice from her priest many times but could not leave him for religious reasons. The priest's advice to her was to stay, and the only reason they could divorce in the eyes of their church was if her H was to have an affair. Today, she actually told him that she was RELIEVED to know that he was having an affair because she could leave now and not feel guilty!?! IMO she has some serious issues.... she has few friends and relies on their children as her emotional/friendship/support ~ so much so that it's unhealthy. Yes, I do believe I need to back off to a certain extent so that MM and his W can figure out what is the best way to proceed for the sake of their children. I'm not confident that the kids are her priority as I'm not sure she's emotionally mature/healthy enough to see that? I don't know... obviously I'm just doing my best to move forward with my R with MM. I am trying to keep out of their problems as best as possible, and be there for MM without getting too involved... I'm not perfect, I'm just trying to do my best to save something that I think is worth getting myself involved all this mess to begin with..... Also, for what it's worth I don't care she knows my name. You have to understand this all hit me on New Years day it wasn't really what MM and I had planned, so it was a shock. I was thrown off track and went through a series of emotions as it all sunk in. I know she would have found out about me one way or another. Who cares if it was then or now ~ that is completely true.
Author CallMeCrazy Posted January 3, 2008 Author Posted January 3, 2008 I kind of feel like I got a little off track with my last post.... Sorry about that. I don't want to judge MM's W. I don't know her, and I only know one side of things with them... Honestly, I just want advice on how to accept all this. How to handle this, move forward and really try to make my R with MM work.... I love him. I want to be with him. Yes, he is a cheater and now so am I. I feel terrible about that. Today was exhausting. I feel like emotionally I'm drained.... I'm focusing on MY life and making sure I have a job and can move forward. That is about all I can do right now, other than be there to listen, right??
Virgo1982 Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 My take on that is no marriage survives an affair. I think that, that marriage is killed and buried. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, but diffently not the same. A marriage is built on trust, respect, love, honesty and loyality. That's your perception because of your situation. Some people are capable of lying to themselves and deflecting pain. I sort of admire them. They are really oblivious sometimes. It must be amazing. Not you though, which is why I enjoy speaking with you. You don't have the fear of your WS cheating on you again to make the beast come out. Anyway, I think the most important people in a M are the people in it. If a H or W have the potential to cheat, they have the potential to cheat. No one will ever be able to talk all OW/OM out of not being with their S. And most here will tell you the WS lied to them and actively pursued. Honestly, it seems like a magnetic situation. Someone with nothing to lose reliving the spark of new romantic love and the woman who thinks this man must be too good to be true-and he really is. Of wait, that was my situation. Everyone has a different story. What remains consistent to me is that one question: What makes the difference between a M that survives and thrives after an affair and the one the withers and dies? It could be one partner, both partners or neither partner. Who knows? Who cares? At the end of the day, did it work or not? If not, then it never would have. Affair or not.
StillSame Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 I guess I'd like to share more details so you can make your own opinions... I do appreciate those giving me advice on how to move FORWARD and not judging me on my actions. I realize that our A was wrong and that we both will be suffering those consequences. I don't need any more lectures, trust me..... His W is not completely innocent either.... granted, she never had a PA but she had been having an EA for at least 2 years with an old high school exBF she re-connected with. They spoke daily for hours at a time (she was a stay-at-home mom) and had dinners, lunches, he made her cd's to listen to... I mean, it sounds like she was doing everything but the physical with this guy. So is that really different!?!? (Honest question....) She is a highly religious person, and told MM she sought advice from her priest many times but could not leave him for religious reasons. The priest's advice to her was to stay, and the only reason they could divorce in the eyes of their church was if her H was to have an affair. Today, she actually told him that she was RELIEVED to know that he was having an affair because she could leave now and not feel guilty!?! IMO she has some serious issues.... she has few friends and relies on their children as her emotional/friendship/support ~ so much so that it's unhealthy. Yes, I do believe I need to back off to a certain extent so that MM and his W can figure out what is the best way to proceed for the sake of their children. I'm not confident that the kids are her priority as I'm not sure she's emotionally mature/healthy enough to see that? I don't know... obviously I'm just doing my best to move forward with my R with MM. I am trying to keep out of their problems as best as possible, and be there for MM without getting too involved... I'm not perfect, I'm just trying to do my best to save something that I think is worth getting myself involved all this mess to begin with..... Also, for what it's worth I don't care she knows my name. You have to understand this all hit me on New Years day it wasn't really what MM and I had planned, so it was a shock. I was thrown off track and went through a series of emotions as it all sunk in. I know she would have found out about me one way or another. Who cares if it was then or now ~ that is completely true. Wow, just wow. Listen to yourself, you sound like this spoiled, self-centered, naive 18 year old sorority chick. Do your parents know about what you're doing? Are they or will they be proud of you?
mistieyed Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) First of all, WOW! I can't imagine having to go through what his wife has gone through. I really, really hope that something like that never, ever happens to me. I guess I have a question for you, too: how can you trust this guy? I mean, he broke up a marriage for YOU. How do you know he won't do the same once you all are committed? I mean, sleep with him if you have to, but personally I wouldn't start a relationship with him. That's just silly. As to what happened, you have to deal with what you've done now, I guess. Maybe he did handle it badly, but I can't help but feel that you're incredibly selfish. I mean, you're mad that his wife knows your name. Well, her whole life is wrecked because of your actions and her husband's actions. Try to think outside the box here and realize what kind of situation you've put yourself in. This can't be the kind of person you want to fall in love with, right? I mean, you must somewhere KNOW that you deserve to date someone that you can trust. It doesn't have to be this way for anyone... i don't think he broke up the marriage because of her - i think he used her as a tool to end it. the wife used the news as a tool to make her kids hate their dad. divorce is hard enough on children and the wife just made it even worse - how terrible can you handle things. to the original poster, when you are in an affair, you take the consequences that come with it and you take responsibility for YOUR actions and not justify them because wifey did something so it was ok for you to do it (been there, done that and it is one hell of a hit to the self esteem) - but, your red flag radar is firing off and you need to get an answer from him why he felt it necessary to offer up your name - there was no reason to do that other than to be hurtful to her (especially if she knew you). if you have true feelings for him, all you can do is ride it out, but expect a roller coaster and most likely a knock at your door from wifey. Edited January 3, 2008 by mistieyed
Virgo1982 Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 This story doesn't make sense to me. How could she be relieved, but react that way. Somebody is not telling the truth...
OWoman Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Honestly, I just want advice on how to accept all this. How to handle this, move forward and really try to make my R with MM work.... I love him. I want to be with him. Yes, he is a cheater and now so am I. I feel terrible about that. Today was exhausting. I feel like emotionally I'm drained.... I'm focusing on MY life and making sure I have a job and can move forward. That is about all I can do right now, other than be there to listen, right?? CMC, your voice seems to have gotten lost on this thread with everyone else having a go on the side lines (like no one else has ever had sex in an elevator? What an admission of terminal boringness!) so let me chip in here. I'm probably not the best person to respond seeing as my position with MM recently having ended it with his W is not that different from yours... but: I think that, for now, there is practical stuff you need to do, and you need to get on with that and let your attention focus on that. You need to find another job - whatever happens between you and MM now, you need another job. So go and work on that. MM's life is going to be filled with drama - whatever his W's reactions, and I'm sure that's going to change too: my MM's wife has veered between outward destructive behaviour and autodestruction, with all kinds of stuff in between - and his own responses are going to be all over the place. He may well say things he later regrets, and some of that to you, and you need as far as possible to see where it's coming from and not let it get to you. Be there for him if you feel you should - opinion seems sharply divided on this but to me, I'd be there for any friend going through what MM is going through, so why not for him if I claim to love him? - but also remember that it's his issue and not yours, and don't get drawn into stuff. And yes, look after yourself and do stuff for yourself. Your MM is going to be making demands on your resources, for support, understanding, time, and all kinds of emotional stuff. You need to make sure your batteries are fully charged so that you have something to give without being depleted yourself. And I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but stop that guilt thing? Guilt is the most idiotic response, it achieves nothing but consumes everything. It's way beyond that time - if you were going to feel bad you shouldn't have done it. You've done it, you have to live with the fall-out, so deal with the consequences and move on. (Remorse, regret, compassion etc are other things, and that kind of stuff might come with time, but for now - stop dwelling on feeling bad and rather start doing good.) Good luck - see you on the other side...
serial muse Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) I agree with OWoman, in that I think you just need to focus on the practical stuff for now, CMC. It's really out of your hands at this point. But a couple of things I'd caution: first, I wouldn't take the statement that she's relieved at face value. Within the first week of Dday (I was the BS), I experienced first anger, then pain, then relief - because I finally knew what the hell was going on! the relief at the end of that terrible uncertainty and walking-on-eggshells period was palpable, it really was - and then that went away and all of those feelings cycled through me, again and again. And that went on for months. So the only thing you can trust here is that it's not over. The other thing I want to say is that you should also be cautious of being judgmental. Yes, I know that people on these boards will laugh to themselves about that, given the harsh words that often fly about, and I know that the things you say about his wife are, in a way, simply to let off steam. But they aren't actually helping you, either, IMO. They fuel frustration and anger, emotions that perhaps you have a right to feel but that are being aimed in the wrong direction. And as such, they aren't letting you keep a cool head at a time when that is what you need to do. One of the things you need to keep a cool head about is that of course he was telling you a version of events that make her into the bad guy. You know this is possible, I'm sure, but you don't really want to believe it's true in your case. And yet, now is the time when you need to keep your wits about you and see him as clearly as possible. What I'm saying is, try to keep in mind that however much of a witch she's been painted to be, she's not responsible for the situation you're all in right now, and it won't help you to fool yourself into thinking that she is, even though I know how tempting that is. My advice is simply to be cautious and as clear-headed about things as you can, now, try to stay out of the drama going on in his household as much as possible, and to do as OWoman advises - get a new job. Edited January 3, 2008 by serial muse
Havn_a_life Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Well that's just too bad it bothers people so much what this woman is saying, we all know you cannot make a person leave a relationship anymore than you make a person stay in one. So if a marriage breaks up it is because one person did not want it anymore. Stop projecting and you won't have such a problem with accepting reality for what it is. CallMeCrazy you shouldn't feel guilty for breaking up a marriage, because you didn't. you have enough on your plate to take on the burden of believing a marriage dissolved because of you, HOW RIDICULOUS!! BSs just need a scapegoat for their lack of acceptance of reality, don't play in to it. Hate to break it to ya, but ummm yeah she did help to break up a M. Period.
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