Question about womens' sexuality and drive...aka another sexless marriage

[LankyGuy]

I wanted to post a question as a follow-up to a discussion that my wife and I had about sex and as a corollary to some of the recent threads here.

 

My wife and I are 32 and 33 and have been together since we were 18. Been married 7 years and have no kids yet. We've been going through tough times lately and from doing reading this forum and books, I've realized that among other things, we have a sexless marriage...we have sex once every month or two...sometimes it will stretch 3 months I'd imagine. Never more than 2-3 times in a month...it would be rare to be that frequent.

 

Unfortunately it's been like this for over 10 years...perhaps 13 or more...yeah, I know. We've attended counseling multiple times over the years and I remember as far back as 1995 that we were having problems with our R and her sexual arousal...I remember discussing it with the counselor.

 

Anyways, my wife has told me that she could willingly go the rest of her life w/o sex. She thinks it's "kinda bad" and she thinks masturbation is just plain "bad" and won't talk about it....she's NOT religious at all. Since I've told her that I do need sex...and WE need sex to be intimate we've had several discussions over the last few months. She recently admitted that she never gets aroused during sex (and I spend 95

% of the time on her when we have sex...oral, etc) and that for the past 10 years she has only done it because I wanted to and just wanted it over with ASAP. I asked if she has lost her attraction for me and she said "No, I still think you're hot," but she admitted that she never gets horny...not even after I've spent 25 minutes of kissing, caressing, giving her oral sex, etc...it's kinda crazy.

 

She says it's because I don't treat her nicely, but I think I do. I treat her as kindly and as warmly as I can considering the state of the relationship and our "closeness". Besides, you'd think once in 10+ years I'd have done something right at least one night for her to want to have sex.

 

The point of this is that my wife has told me for the past 5-10 years that from talking to her friends, no women like to have sex and none of her friends do it...except for those whose husbands don't back down.

I reminded her that the vast majority or her friends are 55-60 and have been married 25-30 years...most report problems in their marriage, so that may have an effect. She admitted she doesn't know about the sex lives of her friends in our age bracket.

 

I had believed this for many years, but from reading on here, it does seem that women like sex...and I now know it's necessary in a relationship. We're basically just friends, roommates, business partners at this point.

 

I guess my question is, does sexual attraction ever come back? Honestly I don't know if she ever had it...sex was fine the first year, but maybe she was just putting up with it then. I know it's not my physical appearance. I'm thin, fit, good hygiene, etc...I've changed very little since my younger days...I know I'm attractive...just not to her. How can I get her to be horny over me?

 

Our plan is for me to try to continue to meet her needs and make her as happy as she can possibly be and maybe in a few months she'll want to have sex. She is trying to work on the screaming and name calling in the meantime since it makes it hard for me to treat her like a "Queen" (her request) after being called some really nasty names in a fight. She still doesn't get that it's hard for me to dote on her when she tells me calls me an a-hole :-/

 

I wonder if she's just asexual...her mother definitely repressed sexuality as she was growing up from the stories she tells me. I asked her if she masturbates ever and she wouldn't talk about it. Personally I don't think she has in over 10 years...I think she has NO drive whatsoever.

 

She DOES have thyroid problems...hypothyroidism...but has been on replacement therapy for 7 years...so that shouldn't be an issue. At this point I don't think she'd be willing to go to the doctor to ask about health issues regarding sex...she refuses to consider it yet until I "treat her right."

 

Oh, by the way...she would not have sex on our wedding night...too tired. And she would not have sex on our honeymoon...a relaxing cruise to the Bahamas a few months later. Just never a "good time", too tired, etc.

 

Guess I should have seen this coming :-/

[Storyrider]

Is she telling the truth about not masturbating, do you think? If she is, then you may be right that she has a low sex drive or doesn't like sex in general for some reason.

 

But is it possible she does masturbate and is afraid it would hurt your feelings to know? She might feel guilty for masturbating when she won't have sex with you.

 

Your honeymoon and wedding night sound a lot like mine. Were you sexually active with her before then?

 

I don't intend this in a mean way, I'm honestly curious; did you ever consider not marrying her when you realized she didn't want to have sex with you? Did you know before the marriage that she had trouble being close to you physically? Why did you push forward anyway?

 

Sorry if this response seems terse or like I'm grilling you. I'm just trying to learn more about your situation. From what you've written so far, it doesn't sound like your wife wants to fix the problem. Or rather, what would be a problem for her is to increase the sex with you rather than keeping her distance.

[Trialbyfire]

Lankyguy, you're going to keep trying and trying. While I commend you on your dedication to making this work, I'm not convinced that the two of you are compatible in any way.

 

I'm 32, on the cusp of turning 33. While in my marriage and pre-marriage, both my ex-partner and I were high-drive individuals. Sex in itself, was never an issue.

[Tomcat33]

Were you each other's first sexual partners?

 

Lanky your age now is irrelevant what is relevant is how much sexual experience you both had before you got together.

Edited January 1, 2008 by Tomcat33

[OpenBook]

It sounds like she is using sex as a manipulative tool to get you to behave the way she wants. Is she any more specific about the "not treating her nice" thing?? What exactly does she want you to do that you're not already doing??

 

And I don't think your "current plan" will solve anything... it'll just be a waste of time. She expects YOU to do all the work and MAYBE in a few MONTHS she'll feel like doing you? I don't think so. Who the h*ll does she think she is anyway?!?

 

Of course... this is strictly based on YOUR take on the situation. We're only hearing one side of the story...

 

I wish there was a way for you to find out if there is something you're doing that's turning her off... or if she just has a low sex drive naturally. If it's the latter, unfortunately there isn't anything you can really do about it on a long-term basis, IMO.

 

But if it's because of those nasty fights you guys are having, well, find a way to stop having those fights!! Or at least learn how to fight fair... change the way you fight. Counseling can help with this.

 

Just my two cents... I could be totally wrong.

 

And on a broader scale,... I often wonder (from reading all the men's posts here and on other boards) if this is a commonplace occurrence - that most W's cut their H's off sexually after so many years into a M, claiming that they're just not into it anymore. According to the men, it's VERY common.

[LankyGuy]

Storyrider - I told her that I masturbate to try to make her feel that it's OK. 10 years ago after we had a 1 year breakup during dating, she admitted to me that she masturbated and fantasized about me...that was HUGE to me. So I really don't think she does masturbate. I don't know when she'd do it... Yes, we were sexually active since a couple of weeks into the relationship.

 

Trialbyfire, thanks for your input...maybe the writing is on the wall...God, I'd love for my wife to "want" me sexually. My GF in my LTR in HS was super horny over me...it was great. I miss that. She wanted more than I did...it was a great problem to have ;-)

 

 

Tomcat, when we met, she was about to turn 18 and I was about to turn 19. She was my second and I was her 13th. She must have been horny at some point in her life ;-)

 

She had a 3 year on-off LTR in high school where she had a lot of sex, and my LTR in HS was 1.5 years and we were all over each other till the R started to sour.

 

Ironically, although I was a little shocked at the number of partners (with only one or two LTRs) she had, I kinda liked it because I thought she was sexual/horny, etc. Now she admits that those guys just gave her lots of attention and made her feel good so it made her want to sleep with them. She says that if I treat her like that, she'll probably want to have sex with me too.

 

To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense...those were horny guys out to get laid telling her what she wants to hear...with the excitement of newness. One was her HS gym teacher, one was the Cruise Director of a huge cruise ship, and one was a married cop with kids...how can I compete with that excitement? I'm just her husband...

 

And no, I don't think she's been abused sexually. If she has, she's repressed it. I know she has self esteem issues, though...and she shouldn't. She has a great body and is very attractive...

[Lizzie60]

Hum... doesn't look good ... not good at all.

 

No matter if she is masturbating or not... that's irrelevant.. the thing is she is NOT having sex with you... that's the problem...

 

but I have to say that you knew that before you got married but chose to marry her despite that big problem...

 

Will it get better... not in a million years... it wasn't better before you got married.. now that you've been married 7 years and sexless over that... you really think she can change???? I don't think so...

 

I know some women who can go forever without sex... sex is just NOT important for them...

 

I agree that when a woman (or man) have been together for over 20+ years.. the passion is long gone.. and the desire, most of the time, is non existent... been there... but since I've separated from my first ex, over 10 years ago.. I have regain my libido... and it's now in over-drive..

 

In your case, you have 4 choices:

 

1) live in your sexless marriage and do not argue about it... you know it won't change anyway;

 

2) get your needs from a mistress, if you're good looking, it should't be hard to find someone;

 

3) if you are scared that the OW might get attached, then give you a hard time... go see an escort;

 

4) divorce and find someone who loves sex.

[Trialbyfire]

Lankyguy, I've noticed that most, not all people, with a large number of sexual partners, use it for reasons of validation, instead of simple attraction. In your wife's situation, it's obviously so. It's the same reason why she needs a co-dependent relationship with someone. She has some major self-esteem issues to work on.

 

Both of you are power-tripping in your own ways. If there's any chance of making this work, you both have to lay down arms, drop walls and stop the control issues. You both have to meet somewhere in between what each of you has been fighting for.

[LankyGuy]

OpenBook, my wife has told me for years that I just don't treat her "nice"...she wants me dote on her and baby her. For one thing, I'm not that kind of guy really, and with her temper tantrums and screaming and crying, It's hard to get in that mindset anyways.

 

Her number one complaint is that I don't leave her little notes and I don't give her enough compliments. She doesn't feel "special". That would be her turn-off.

 

Unfortunately she starts fights for the most ridiculous reasons...basically things that get on her nerves...just a very short fuse and then she blows up. Then she calls me terrible names and screams...finally she has agreed to try to stop...it's her New Years resolution.

 

I RARELY start fights or have a bone to pick with her. I'm always the first to apologize and often the only one to apologize. I'm always doing things wrong and am always at fault...I've just dealt with it for too many years.

 

I've learned that I have the classic Mr. Nice Guy syndrome...I'm reading the No More Mr Niceguy book now and it's enlightening.

[OpenBook]

I've learned that I have the classic Mr. Nice Guy syndrome...I'm reading the No More Mr Niceguy book now and it's enlightening.

 

Well, in an odd and twisted way, that may be the very thing that is going to turn her lights on... you putting your foot down and saying, "Enough." Good luck with that!! Seriously. It may be the ticket. No More Mr. Nice Guy, missy...

[Tomcat33]

OpenBook, my wife has told me for years that I just don't treat her "nice"...she wants me dote on her and baby her. For one thing, I'm not that kind of guy really, and with her temper tantrums and screaming and crying, It's hard to get in that mindset anyways.

 

Her number one complaint is that I don't leave her little notes and I don't give her enough compliments. She doesn't feel "special". That would be her turn-off.

 

Unfortunately she starts fights for the most ridiculous reasons...basically things that get on her nerves...just a very short fuse and then she blows up. Then she calls me terrible names and screams...finally she has agreed to try to stop...it's her New Years resolution.

 

I RARELY start fights or have a bone to pick with her. I'm always the first to apologize and often the only one to apologize. I'm always doing things wrong and am always at fault...I've just dealt with it for too many years.

 

I've learned that I have the classic Mr. Nice Guy syndrome...I'm reading the No More Mr Niceguy book now and it's enlightening.

 

 

I asked the sex before you met question because I thought you were each other's first, my goodness she had 13 partners before you at the age of 18? That is a very telling.

Given that and what I just bolded here she sounds like she has low self esteem and always USED sex to get approval. Before she used sex for affaction now she withholds sex for affection see how it works? She has never matured from her teenage ways and is using sex as a tool to manipulate attention from you because she thinks all these things she requests from you = love. And they do, but what she does not realise is that love is a two way street. A man can not fabricate the act of doing small things for a woman unless she makes him feel like he wants to give if you feel loved you will want to give. not having sex with you makes you feel rejected and totally unloved you are BOTH in the same boat over different things.

 

I bet you DO have it in you to be that guy Lanky, you do have it in you to give and make small gestures but who wants to do that for someone who's constantly nagging you and demanding gestures and never satisfied with what you DO give them?

 

She needs individual councelling and you need a few couple's threapy sessiones to learn how to communicate and MEET each other's needs. If you want sex you need to meet each other's emotional needs first.

[Ronni_W]

She says it's because I don't treat her nicely, but I think I do.

...my question is, does sexual attraction ever come back? Honestly I don't know if she ever had it...

Our plan is for me to try to continue to meet her needs and make her as happy as she can possibly be and maybe in a few months she'll want to have sex.

Well, first off, one doesn't have to be religious to have sexual hang-ups -- growing up, we get those (the hang-ups) from well-meaning adults, teachers, media, etc. It just makes me so cranky!

 

The thing is, what does she consider being treated "nicely"? -- are her ideas and expectations realistic and reasonable?? Conversely, I get that you do treat her nicely according to your own definition...but is that the same as what she feels is "nice" treatment?

 

Er...speaking from my own experience, it is just plain inaccurate that "no women like to have sex." Some of us like it...A LOT!!!

 

If she never has had a sex drive, my thinking is that it might be difficult for her to develop one at this stage. I know that you know that isn't about you but it's still got to be tough on you.

 

The part about your "plan" that I find rather - off-putting, shall we say? - is that it totally focuses on her and her needs...and you're like the puppy who may or may not get some scraps for his efforts. That isn't good for your self-esteem and doesn't ask her to take responsibility for HER part in the sexual area of HER relationship.

 

The only thing that I can think, is to suggest the book "The Art of Sexual Ecstacy" by Margo Anand. To be honest, it didn't help with the relationship for which I'd bought it BUT it did help me understand and accept my own sexual needs and stuff...and not feel like THE freak in the situation.

Of course, I hope for better things for you...perhaps it will help her to awaken her own sexual passions, and learn to really enjoy them.

 

And she needs to stop TRYING to work on the name-calling and just STOP the name-calling! She is a grown-up, with full capacity and ability to control that -- she just needs the willingness and the desire, and then must exercise her self-control in this area (and let loose in the "bedroom", so to speak.)

 

Best of luck. My experience is not exactly but close to what you're dealing with, except from a woman's perspective. It wasn't pretty for my "inner goddess" aspect, and I guess it ain't great for your "inner god" aspect, either.

[LankyGuy]

I bet you DO have it in you to be that guy Lanky, you do have it in you to give and make small gestures but who wants to do that for someone who's constantly nagging you and demanding gestures and never satisfied with what you DO give them?

 

She needs individual councelling and you need a few couple's threapy sessiones to learn how to communicate and MEET each other's needs. If you want sex you need to meet each other's emotional needs first.

 

Tomcat, I do. During our first year or so of dating I did all kinds of little things for her...left notes, got her mushy cards, wrote love letters, etc. I haven't felt "it" for a long time, though. So those things now feel contrived.

 

Yes, the marriage counselor we went to last told her that she needs to work on self esteem and work on making herself happy before she can make anyone else happy. He was very firm with her. She didn't take it well...she's defensive when she's on the hotseat. She thinks I'm 90% of the problem in the R...she has told me that several times...

[whichwayisup]

She thinks I'm 90% of the problem in the R...she has told me that several times...

 

Which are? Has she given her reasons?

 

I think the therapist is onto something and that's definately why she didn't take what he said well. She probably thought the finger would be pointed only at you and not her as well. He is right, she needs to feel happy within herself, feel sexual again, feel and want to be desired. Is she depressed? Or is she just content with making no effort day in and day out, living like a robot..

 

Everyone goes through dryspells, it's expected in a marriage - But in your situation she just doesn't like sex, or something from her childhood has affected her about it, given her some hang ups about it too.

[LankyGuy]

Lizzie, you laid out the options. I'd not consider straying...I'd end the marriage before I do that. If she's got self esteem issues now, she'd be a basketcase if I cheated on her.

 

Trialbyfire...yes, she probably did use sex for validation. Probably explains why she had sex with people in positions of authority...

 

Ronni, thanks your input was was helpful...by "nicely" she wants thoughtful little gestures and sweetness. People consider me nice, sweet, thoughtful, good listener, attentive, etc. So she is being treated nicely, IMO, just not being treated the way I treated her in the "in love" stage 13 years ago...I've been through a lot of pain since then...I don't know if I'll ever get those feelings back, to be honest.

 

I'll look into the book..thanks!

[whichwayisup]

Okay, I have to ask now... What does she do for you? Does she do nice and special things for you? Make you feel good (outside of the bedroom I mean), does she make you a cup of tea and bring it to you? Or make you a yummy snack and surprise you? Why does it seem that it's all about her and not at all about you, or atleast meeting halfway?

 

Glad to hear that cheating isn't a consideration. That wouldn't help in the long run at all.

[LankyGuy]

Which are? Has she given her reasons?

 

I think the therapist is onto something and that's definately why she didn't take what he said well. She probably thought the finger would be pointed only at you and not her as well. He is right, she needs to feel happy within herself, feel sexual again, feel and want to be desired. Is she depressed? Or is she just content with making no effort day in and day out, living like a robot..

 

Everyone goes through dryspells, it's expected in a marriage - But in your situation she just doesn't like sex, or something from her childhood has affected her about it, given her some hang ups about it too.

 

Number one reason is that I don't treat her "nicely" (compliments, thoughtfulness). Second reason is that I am selfish and put everything else before her...college, job, real estate investing, post graduate courses, etc. Third would be that I'm not emotionally available to her and not supportive of her with her health issues (rheumatoid arthritis) or whatever it is that she's depressed about...usually infertility and RA.

 

I've realized that many of these are due to the fact the relationship is broken...these may be symptoms of my withdrawal and disconnection from the relationship over the years. If the relationship were better, I would dote on her more...it's a vicious cycle.

 

We didn't even get into sex with the MC...it was in September and at the time I didn't realize it was a "valid" problem. The theme of the session was the huge disconnection that we had as well as the verbal abuse, and how it was causing it to be tough for me to do those "nice" things for her. Yes, she was shocked that her lectured her....she told me I threw her under the bus because I'm more articulate than she is.

[LankyGuy]

Okay, I have to ask now... What does she do for you? Does she do nice and special things for you? Make you feel good (outside of the bedroom I mean), does she make you a cup of tea and bring it to you? Or make you a yummy snack and surprise you? Why does it seem that it's all about her and not at all about you, or atleast meeting halfway?

 

Glad to hear that cheating isn't a consideration. That wouldn't help in the long run at all.

 

OK, so why have I stayed, right? The real answer is probably that I didn't have the balls to leave in 1995 or that I thought it would get better.

 

But to answer your question, she does do those things that a nice domestic wife does. She loves to cook for me and do thoughtful things...yes, snacks, etc...This morning she made me toast and brought me a glass of milk. Honestly, she's like a mom to me. My mom was never like that, so maybe that's why I was drawn to her and why I've stayed. She does make me feel good during those times...

 

She's also great with my family...she had a hard time with my mom for the first 10 years, but she's worked on that and they now have a good relationship. She's very involved with the rest of my family too...around them, she's an angel...they have no clue of her Jekyll and Hyde personality.

 

And she works hard...she helps me with our rental properties and gives up a lot of her time helping me manage them, etc. She complains a lot but she does it for the greater good.

 

Realistically, these are probably not the right reasons for me to stay married to her all these years. But between those "services", the investment of my heart, time, and energy, and the fear of the confrontation and the incredible drama that would ensue had I left her...I stayed all these years. Plus, I can't stand for people to think I screwed up or an not "perfect", etc. Classic Mr. Nice guy issues...I hide the real issues so that everything seems hunky dory.

 

I gave up sex, a good deal of happiness, and a lot of dignity by staying in this relationship. The problems are far deeper than I suspected when I started to try to take control, assess, and address the relationship a few months ago when I joined her. I turned my back to the issues in this relationship for a long time...that was the biggest mistake I've made.

 

I worry about how it's affected me at times...my wife is convinced that I'm an a-hole and "not a nice person" and after telling me that for so long I'm not sure if I am or not... I could be, but she's the only person that I'm aware of who feels this way about me...

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat, I do. During our first year or so of dating I did all kinds of little things for her...left notes, got her mushy cards, wrote love letters, etc. I haven't felt "it" for a long time, though. So those things now feel contrived.

 

Yes, the marriage counselor we went to last told her that she needs to work on self esteem and work on making herself happy before she can make anyone else happy. He was very firm with her. She didn't take it well...she's defensive when she's on the hotseat. She thinks I'm 90% of the problem in the R...she has told me that several times...

 

 

Of course you have it, ALL men have it in them. It takes a special kind of woman to bring it out in some men and it takes a special kind of woman to supress it in them as well. With the exception of people who also have self esteem issues and give exessively to gain approval, you are no different than most normal human beings.

 

The tip off here is she blames you 90% and is victimizing her stance, and that is a sheer sign of low self esteem. A person with a healthy ego accepts that in every realtionship there is 50% 50% action and if there really is an imbalance in actions then the person staying who is getting less than what they are putting out is the one with self esteem issues. The combinations are endless but to say that one partner is the sole reason the other is unhappy is putting too much onis on the couple and what a couple is supposed to do for one another.

 

 

I don't think you will meet her half way until she learns to appreciate you just as you are and open up to you sexually and lovingly and she won't do that until you start to show her through those little actions you care.

 

You know Lanky sometimes in a relationship when it becomes a tug of war on who does what for whom, the only way to cut the cycle is of one person to step forward and just give unconditionally in order to burry the hatchet. Something has to give and you need to break out of the pattern if you want to progress.

 

It may mean you doing little things for her for an extended period of time not asking for much in return, you will feel frustrated at first and you will feel like it is totally contrived on your part BUT if you can break the cycle and she really wants this progress as much as you do, you should see her come around in time.

 

I'm sorry but your W sounds emotionally draining I feel for you man!

[Ronni_W]

...by "nicely" she wants thoughtful little gestures and sweetness. People consider me nice, sweet, thoughtful, good listener, attentive, etc.

It is rather adolescent of her to want thing from 13 years ago -- as if she wants YOU to "grow" in your expression of "little gestures and sweetness" yet isn't willing to grow in her own needs and expectations, or in what SHE offers you.

 

Of course neither of you is the same person you were then...or even 3 years ago!

 

If people are perceiving you as sweet and thoughtful, that is likely a more accurate picture of how you come across than your wife's perception of you not being sweet "enough".

 

Taking the opposite: If I felt a need to "defend or excuse" my position on sex, then I'd be saying all the same things that she's saying, and making all the same unreasonable demands.

 

The question is: What might have caused my fear of, and lack of interest in a healthy sex life?

And then, am I ready to look at the underlying cause(s) now?

 

I am not encouraging you to discuss these things with your wife...there just seems to be something that we do not know about her own ideas and beliefs about sex, the knowing of which could change many things.

[Tomcat33]

OK, so why have I stayed, right? The real answer is probably that I didn't have the balls to leave in 1995 or that I thought it would get better.

 

But to answer your question, she does do those things that a nice domestic wife does. She loves to cook for me and do thoughtful things...yes, snacks, etc...This morning she made me toast and brought me a glass of milk. Honestly, she's like a mom to me. My mom was never like that, so maybe that's why I was drawn to her and why I've stayed. She does make me feel good during those times...

 

She's also great with my family...she had a hard time with my mom for the first 10 years, but she's worked on that and they now have a good relationship. She's very involved with the rest of my family too...around them, she's an angel...they have no clue of her Jekyll and Hyde personality.

 

And she works hard...she helps me with our rental properties and gives up a lot of her time helping me manage them, etc. She complains a lot but she does it for the greater good.

 

Realistically, these are probably not the right reasons for me to stay married to her all these years. But between those "services", the investment of my heart, time, and energy, and the fear of the confrontation and the incredible drama that would ensue had I left her...I stayed all these years. Plus, I can't stand for people to think I screwed up or an not "perfect", etc. Classic Mr. Nice guy issues...I hide the real issues so that everything seems hunky dory.

 

I gave up sex, a good deal of happiness, and a lot of dignity by staying in this relationship. The problems are far deeper than I suspected when I started to try to take control, assess, and address the relationship a few months ago when I joined her. I turned my back to the issues in this relationship for a long time...that was the biggest mistake I've made.

 

I worry about how it's affected me at times...my wife is convinced that I'm an a-hole and "not a nice person" and after telling me that for so long I'm not sure if I am or not... I could be, but she's the only person that I'm aware of who feels this way about me...

 

 

Lanky I hope this was just a "silly" typical rushed guy answer because you are not thinking the questions through enough you just answered...do you honestly feel like this about your W? Or do you maybe need to think about this a little deeper? Because it sounds like you just described a "maternal" work associate not a romantic partner!?!?

[Storyrider]

It is rather adolescent of her to want thing from 13 years ago -- as if she wants YOU to "grow" in your expression of "little gestures and sweetness" yet isn't willing to grow in her own needs and expectations, or in what SHE offers you.

 

Of course neither of you is the same person you were then...or even 3 years ago!

 

If people are perceiving you as sweet and thoughtful, that is likely a more accurate picture of how you come across than your wife's perception of you not being sweet "enough".

 

Taking the opposite: If I felt a need to "defend or excuse" my position on sex, then I'd be saying all the same things that she's saying, and making all the same unreasonable demands.

 

The question is: What might have caused my fear of, and lack of interest in a healthy sex life?

And then, am I ready to look at the underlying cause(s) now?

 

I am not encouraging you to discuss these things with your wife...there just seems to be something that we do not know about her own ideas and beliefs about sex, the knowing of which could change many things.

Here we go again, but he said she has withheld sex from the beginning. No sex on wedding night or honeymoon. Doesn't that indicate a problem that has been there since day one and not a problem that has grown from a cause within the marriage?

[Ronni_W]

Doesn't that indicate a problem that has been there since day one and not a problem that has grown from a cause within the marriage?

 

Yes, exactly! My gut is telling me it is something that has been there a long time. I am just not having the guts, right now, to type: "Is there ANY chance of sexual abuse in her past? Or perhaps it happened to a very close friend or relative."

I just do NOT want to type that.

[LankyGuy]

Thanks Tomcat. The tough thing is that she doesn't accept me for me. She says things like "why can't you be more like this...why can't you be more like that person?" "If you love me you'll change...don't you want to be a better person?"

 

I do want to be a better person, but if it's only for her benefit, then that's a burden...from going to individual counseling last year (since I took all the blame for the problems in the R) I found that I am a good person.

 

Yes, I have tried to do those little things. 7 years ago a counselor suggested that I do something special for her every month on the 11th...an anniversary for us. I pick up something special for her, leave a note on her car, send her a mushy email, etc on those days and she likes. The problem is she's not happy b/c she was hoping that once I got used to it, I'd do it all the time automatically. I still only do it on the 11th.

 

OTOH, I constantly do little things for her to show her that I care, but she doesn't consider them...I always put the seat down, turn the entry lights on for her when she comes home at night, I say "bless you" every time she sneezes, I pick up her plate when she's finished with dinner. Not big stuff, but lots of guys don't do any of this...

 

Yeah, in my original post in this thread, I mentioned that our plan is for me to start meeting her needs...doing more notes and stuff...then we can see if the R can improve at all. She's stopping the screaming...she's now made it 4 days w/o screaming...she almost lost it today though...days off together are tough :-/

 

Oh, thanks for your sympathy Tomcat...yeah it's draining. Last year when I finished my individual counseling, the MC made a point to tell me that he thinks that my wife is high maintenance...of course, he asked me not to tell her and I won't. I thought it was interesting that he crossed boundaries by saying that, though. He must have really wanted to let me know...

[whichwayisup]

Lanky, I feel for you on this, I mean from what I've read it seems you are not an a-hole, your wife just has her own issues, mentally and physically (the arthritis which probably makes her feel depressed, limited to what she can and can't do) that affects the marriage, let alone how she relates to you.

 

You say you post schooling first, work first, well - ALL that was for her benefit, to provide for her, to build a life with her. It's just she cannot see that.

 

One other thing is, SHE needs to work on her self esteem issues. You can tell her 100x that you find her sexy, beautiful, hot ... But she needs to feel that within so she can believe it when you said it.

 

See, she has to lower her expectation level and see that in actions that you've done in the past (working, school etc), plus other little things you do DO SHOW that you love and care for her. She just is'nt getting that yet..