nashua Posted January 1, 2008 Posted January 1, 2008 Hi Everyone, My boyfriend woke up this morning slightly depressed about a little situation we find ourselves in.....we are friendless. The deal is, he is 59 and I am almost 31. We've been together over 3 years now, and are very much in it for the "long haul". We feel that because of our major age difference, its hard to make good friends that not only understand us, but friends that won't judge us. Separately, we have plenty of friends. His are all his age, and mine are all my age. How do you make "together" friends that can embrace our oddity? Not sure what to do.
Mr. Lucky Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 What kind of things do you like to do together? My W is 10 years younger than I am and many of our "couple" friends come from the activities we enjoy together... Mr. Lucky
OldEurope Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 Hello Cairo, My H is 24 years older than I am. I am 37 he is 61. We are compatible on every level, we have the same cultural and intellectual interests, we are sporty and sexy together, and mature: I do not try to act "older" and he does not try to act "younger"---It is all based on personality, temperament and personal values, outlook. In addition to the age gap, I was once the "OW" --so, a kind of double-whammy in terms of social "acceptance". We forged forth and laughed, knowing that our real friends would look beyond the "externals" of our situation (which present such superficial truth) and to us individually, as two people in love and go with that. This is what has happened. We have a great core of friends, mostly his but mine as well. Even my girl-friends are older than I am, and I just could not care less. I love people older than I, one always gets to learn from them and their experiences. And besides, it all makes for the fact that I am always the "younger one" around and that too feels great! The point is, you should not even care. Concentrate on your relationship and you will naturally attract the right people--those focused on the dynamic of your couplehood rather than the characteristics of it. The only problem I foresee is if you and he have wildly different interests which will not, so to speak, close the gap. Then I see not just problems socially but problems just between the two of you down the road (in my humble opinion). Take care, and remember that many of the most famous and longest-enduring relationships in history were so-called "May December" and quite frankly I find them sexy. (And so will your true friends) Happy New Year, OE
OWoman Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 Separately, we have plenty of friends. His are all his age, and mine are all my age. How do you make "together" friends that can embrace our oddity? Not sure what to do. Hey Cairo, I've always gone for "older men" so age gaps are nothing new to me! I suppose my question is, why have his friends stayed "his" and yours yours, and not become "your both's"? Given how long you've been together, surely they've had both the opportunity to get to know you as a couple, as well as the evidence that you're in it "for the long haul" so that it's safe to do so? My MM and I both took the time even before he left his W to integrate each other into our social circles because that was part of sharing our lives with each other, and my and his friends saw how great we were together, and welcomed us as a couple. So either something is holding back your friends from doing the same, or you've been holding back yourselves as a couple from them? Possibly because of the age gap, you've formed a very strong couple-bond, kind of "us against the world", that might have isolated yourselves unwittingly from that? Also, perhaps, depending on the circumstances of how you got together and how open it was from the start, perhaps you've not really been welcoming other people's presence into your R in a conscious way until now? Still, wherever you got together forms an intersection point for his world and yours - that may be a good place to start looking?
ForgottenRomance Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 Hi all, I just found this forum...great place to share ideas. I've heard this before and it may be more common than you think, especially when you spend lots of time together, you sometimes naturally exclude yourself. You can try some offline groups such as meetup.com You can search by criteria and they may offer you both an opportunity to get out and meet some new friends, even if you're an 'odd couple'. Warmly, Michelle
Author nashua Posted January 3, 2008 Author Posted January 3, 2008 Hello Cairo, My H is 24 years older than I am. I am 37 he is 61. We are compatible on every level, we have the same cultural and intellectual interests, we are sporty and sexy together, and mature: I do not try to act "older" and he does not try to act "younger"---It is all based on personality, temperament and personal values, outlook. In addition to the age gap, I was once the "OW" --so, a kind of double-whammy in terms of social "acceptance". We forged forth and laughed, knowing that our real friends would look beyond the "externals" of our situation (which present such superficial truth) and to us individually, as two people in love and go with that. This is what has happened. We have a great core of friends, mostly his but mine as well. Even my girl-friends are older than I am, and I just could not care less. I love people older than I, one always gets to learn from them and their experiences. And besides, it all makes for the fact that I am always the "younger one" around and that too feels great! The point is, you should not even care. Concentrate on your relationship and you will naturally attract the right people--those focused on the dynamic of your couplehood rather than the characteristics of it. The only problem I foresee is if you and he have wildly different interests which will not, so to speak, close the gap. Then I see not just problems socially but problems just between the two of you down the road (in my humble opinion). Take care, and remember that many of the most famous and longest-enduring relationships in history were so-called "May December" and quite frankly I find them sexy. (And so will your true friends) Happy New Year, OE Hey OE, Wow, I'm basically in the same position as you, as I too, was an OW. The double-whammy comment was right on the mark. For me, it has been extremely difficult feeling comfortable and secure with myself in the presence of his friends because of the shame and guilt I feel about being the OW and partially responsible for ending a marriage. I get along w/ some of his friends, but not the married ones. Not to mention, I look so young for my age (I still get carded!) and I feel its hard to be taken seriously by anyone, but especially his friends, and their wives. This all took place in a small college town where everyone knows everybody's business. We actually moved to the Bay Area so we had some anonominity, but he has a business in this small town, so he actually commutes and I only see him a couple days a week. I think we just have to stop isolating ourselves. We are so used to being a in a bubble, hiding out. We go out, but really haven't done any "group" things to introduce us to new people. No dance classes, or yoga or anything. Mostly because we have no routine. Anyway, I loved your response and love the fact that there are others out there. I'm just curiuos, but do you and your H have kids?? Do you happen to live in the bay area? MAybe we could get togehter. Thanks for the words!
Gunny376 Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Its a matter of caring! If you don't care! IT DON'T MATTER!
OldEurope Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Hey OE, Wow, I'm basically in the same position as you, as I too, was an OW.... Do you happen to live in the bay area? MAybe we could get togehter. Thanks for the words! Well, I am half-way around the world from you in northern Italy (I am American though we live out here) so I'll just have to raise a cyber-espresso to you in fullest wishes for your future with your beloved! It is easy to get into the "bubble" mentality and some of that is natural. Like in your case, our married friends were a little more wary of us and the single or divorced friends far more sympathetic. The two of you perhaps isolate yourselves a bit just out of caution, wariness, because at every turn there is the feeling you have to second-guess the judgments being silently (or perhaps quite openly) cast at you. You will find soon enough that this is a waste of your time and life together as a couple. Also, in addition to the stressful factors of age difference and my "other woman" background, I was also the new kid in town--make that continent--an American living in a foreign country AND in a social milieu that happened to be/is staunch European Catholic (My H is Swiss). I took in stride, made my own friends, worked my own work, and had and have very strong outside hobbies/interests. While I/we "cared" what others thought in terms of our public behavior and comportment and making sure family members understood the origin and history and story of our meeting and falling in love...my H and I had and have just a fantastic sense of partnership, we are each what the other was looking for, hoped for, and that more than anything else bore through all the social criticisms and the rest. Oh, I had a few public confrontations all right, but at the end of the day I said to any naysayer if I had to what I normally kept to myself: that I was not the fundamental factor in breaking up a marriage--that had happened years earlier, on its own, without me ever in the picture (and back then, not even in the country!) The best thing and really the only thing for the two of you to do is to define "your" world. What are the things that you two want to do, discover, debate, decline, denounce; what are your common intellectual or sport or cultural interests and the rest of it follows from there. You have to accept your relationship first before you can expect anyone else to and that means acting in a way and pursuing life in a way as if age, histories, etc all do not matter because in a great relationship they do not. As a friend of mine here says so wisely: Love, and do what you want. xo OE Edited January 3, 2008 by OldEurope
marlena Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 OE, Exquisite posts as usual! Cairodancer, What's important is how you view your relationship and how much you place priority on it. IF as OE says there is a strong connection between the two of you, this will come across to other people of the same mindset and with common interests who will naturally flock to you. The rest you don't really need. Not every one can be a friend and who would want them to be anyway? You should be very eclectic when it comes to selecting the kind of friends you want to surround you. Never settle for less. Your best bet would be to socialize with people more in your husband's age range than in your own, at least when you are with your husband. Due to the wisdom of their years,they are more apt to be less judgemental and in a position to understand the complexities of what brought and keep the two of you together. I agree, the most interesting people I know are rather on in years. Another idea would be to have your own personal circle of friends, perhaps, closer to your age. Once again, you need to weed out the people who are compatible to you and not care about the rest. It is not chance that brings "birds of a feather" together. When I divorced, the new friends I made were mostly all divorced. Therefore, it is not strange that you get that caustic lifted brow look from some of your husband's married friends. When that happens just put on your most charming smile, be civil and then regally walk away. Friends tend to bring on more friends .. so make a start with at least one person you like very much and see where it goes from there. Are you a new couple? These things take time. Try not to fret and concentrate on making your life with your partner a more profound and rewarding experience. Friends come and go but your SO is, hopefully, there for the long haul as they say. OE, I, too, am an American living very closeby to you. Do you think Europeans are much more accepting of affairs and the partnerships that arise from them? I tend to think they are. I also have found that it is easier to make friends in these southern climes! Just interested to know if you have noticed the same thing.
OldEurope Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Hi Marlena! (commercial break, brief thread-jack....) Or is it "Yasou" ?! If I recall correctly from when we all rushed in to counsel RP on her marriage woes, there was some southeastern-europe networking going on there...In any case...a universal "Ciao!" It is interesting how often this question of Europeans and their "leniency" towards affairs is or is not comes up. I will say this. All Europeans are, of course, human beings as well and all get equally hurt. I know of no one really that had an "in-your-face" affair going on in front of a spouse as if such a thing were to be taken as normal, and I know plenty of divorce situations where there were serious, emotional/physical affairs outside the marriage and these really devastated a spouse Now it is true that there are all kinds of traditions of Kings and Presidents and this and that having "official" mistresses and the like and there is the cultural habitude of having grown used to these arrangements...and of course every so often on some political magazine cover you will see a beaming politician and his long suffering wife resolving to stick it out together for the long haul although the power player in question can't stop sowing his oats all over the place (oh, my one only has to think of Berlusconi!). On the every day level I know of a few cases where a spouse for the sake of appearances will agree to an "arrange-ment" (pronounced here with a French accent, of course!) and so on and so forth....But I go back to my original point: ALL get hurt ALL get angry and confused as far as I have seen, heard, (experienced). And that is just plain human. We Americans as I have read are also supposed to be pretty frisky only the reputation of the country remains one of being far more "puritanical" than Europe. But we just may be sneaking in the last laugh....(or shedding more tears?).... I must also mention that where I am divorce is still considered a very difficult move to make, almost a matter of some personal shame, family shame. And I most certainly do not live in some religious village or anything, but a worldly, fashionable city. My own H had to go to a psychotherapist to work through confronting the fact of an affair and the possibility of divorce even though his first marriage was just about as bottomed out as you can get (and was not even really a loving marriage to begin with...). I was (roll of the drum) his first affair. Yes, really. Now that might be unusual, but so it was. There are some Europeans who do have a conservative code of values or try very hard to maintain them. What is the verdict really? Quite hard to say but I will grant you that I think Europeans, having had more difficult lives owing to all the historical problems and cultural problems of the continent and its history, seem to be on some level more understanding of the incredibly complex nature of human relationships. I most certainly do not say this as "excuse making" but as the conclusion of some long and hard thought on the matter and just watching and listening to people here. I will add that this sensitivity is why my closest friends are Europeans because I find them very ready to listen and understand--not just on "OW" issues but on so much more. In America I have found that in general the moral judgments are a little more ready to fly right away. It is not, in my view, that Europeans "like" that affairs happen but that they accept that human life is a very difficult path to regulate, passions love included. All this said, I do hope that my H does remain faithful and I, having been monogamous in my relationships prior to our marriage, have absolutely that intention as well. Vows are taken in Europe as well!
marlena Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 What is the verdict really? Quite hard to say but I will grant you that I think Europeans, having had more difficult lives owing to all the historical problems and cultural problems of the continent and its history, seem to be on some level more understanding of the incredibly complex nature of human relationships. I most certainly do not say this as "excuse making" but as the conclusion of some long and hard thought on the matter and just watching and listening to people here. I will add that this sensitivity is why my closest friends are Europeans because I find them very ready to listen and understand--not just on "OW" issues but on so much more. In America I have found that in general the moral judgments are a little more ready to fly right away. It is not, in my view, that Europeans "like" that affairs happen but that they accept that human life is a very difficult path to regulate, passions love included. EO, Yes, it is Yiassou (sounds like a sneeze or a wrong pronunciation of yahoo, haha)! Yes, I think, you summarized it perfectly with the above words. Having lived on both sides of the Atlantic, I find that Europeans because of their long history and centuries - old cultural habitudes, do tend to have a more spherical and more in-depth understanding of the "human predicament" as Somerset Maugham described it in "Of Human Bondage (I think)." This has nothing to do with amorality/immorality but rather it is a philosophy or cosmotheasis that has been passed down to them through their cultural heritage. America is still a very new, and yes, "puritanical" nation compared to "decadent" Europe with all its experience and age old wisdom. And, yes, I agree Americans to tend to see things more in black and white, right or wrong images whilst completely ignoring the existence of the colour grey in matters concerning the complexities of the human psyche! Now we have Sarcosi proud as a peacock strutting about with his new trophy! And let's not forget Greece's very own Papandreou!!! Whatever the case may be, yes, whether from Europe or America,we all share the same feelings of hurt and betrayal .. it is the universality of being human. I could go on talking forever about this but do not want to jack this thread any longer. I love reading your posts so I hope to see more of you on L.S. Stay well! Marlena
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