Husband "Gave Up" on Marriage

[libertybelle]

Hi. I've been lurking for awhile and decided to ask for some input or advice on my situation. The short version is. We've been married 24 years with 2 beautiful daughters. Anyway, about 18 months ago, my husband became different. He no longer was interestest in any intimacy, physcial or otherwise. He became aloof, withdrawn, sarcastic, disinterested and short-tempered. I was going through some health issues at the time and while I noticed, didn't comment much.

 

Last Christmas, he just lost it and we had a huge fight. Basically he said that he had given up on the marriage, that I had ignored him ever since the birth of our last child (age 15), etc. etc. Anyway, I realized I had done some of that, while I was watching his kids, being a single parent when he wasn't home (fireman), and went to graduate school. I admitted I could have been more attentive but it wasn't intentional, like many marrieds with kids, life gets in the way.

 

So, I made an effort this past year to regain our lost intimacy and connect physically, emtionally and as friends and confidantes once again. Well, it's not working. We have gone to counseling but the counselor said my husband must come back with IC. My husband says that he cannot forgive or forget my ignoring him all these years. That everything that is wrong with the marriage (this is the only huge problem) is my fault and he will never believe otherwise. I have tried talking to him but it's impossible because each time he says, whatever is wrong now is all my fault because of what I did.

 

He also said I ignored him when he brought it up. I pointed out that it takes two to make or break a marriage and that he also contributed to our lack of intimacy (many issues on his part) but I rolled with the punches. He said said I never complained he doesn't believe anything I say now. I asked why does he bother to stay if he feels that way and says because he wants to "get it back". Since he also says in the next breath he has given up, I don't know what he wants.

 

When I had admitted to making mistakes and trying to change he called me a hypocrite! So I said what do you want, and his stock answer is I don't know. Well, not it's gotten to the point where I have withdrawn from him on every level. He has noticed and comments on it. When I tell him it's because of everything you have said and what is going on, he said it's initially all my fault because of my treatment of him all these years. Honestly, I thought I was a good (not perfect) wife.

 

We had our ups and downs but enough is enough. I said when and if he is ready to sit down and discuss the situation with blaming me for everything we can talk. He said that will never, ever happen, it's all my fault, blah, blah, blah.

 

So now, I am wondering, is there some other thinking behind all this on his part? He says he wants to stay in the marriage but it sure seems for the sake of our 2 kids. Anyway, if anyone could please give me an unbiased opnion on what are his motives, what I should do, etc? Right now I am hurt, confused, angry and resentful. Sorry this is so long and any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

Liberty Belle

Edited December 29, 2007 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Seperated into smaller paragraphs.

[EnigmasMuse]

Sounds to me like he is placing most of the blame on you. As long as he is not willing to take responsbilty for anything he may have done during the marriage and puts things all off on you, it wont work anyway. I'm sure everything is NOT your fault. It almost sounds like some guilt coming out of him from somewhere, with the way he is handling all of this by blaming you.

[PerfectLee]

I hate to say this, but maybe it might have some truth to it. Maybe he's fallen out of love with you. When you're in love, even if you can't forget or get passed something the other person has done to you, you work through it and forgive. Sounds to me like everything you do now just gets on his nerves and then turns it around on you. Resentment is a relationship destroyer, and unless you can forgive your spouse, you might as well call it over. As you said, it wasn't intentional, you didn't want to hurt him or neglect him. Why can't he just take that as face value, not as an excuse for your behavior, and move on? After 24 long years & 2 daughters, I'd say you deserve that.

[OpenBook]

It sounds like classic midlife. He's evaluating his life, and pondering the rest of it... and wondering "Is this all there is??" A lot of it has to do with you... but I think it goes WAY beyond you. Hence the counselor recommending IC for him. Also (physiologically), his brain is literally shrinking. I have no idea what effect that has, but I do know many men start acting weird when this starts happening to them (typically in their mid-40's).

 

But I think there's a very good chance you guys can turn this around. Why? Because of something that HE said...

 

I asked why does he bother to stay if he feels that way and says because he wants to "get it back". Since he also says in the next breath he has given up, I don't know what he wants.

 

I think this statement from him is EXTREMELY significant and should be built upon. He's not out searching for answers between the arms & legs of another woman. He wants to get it back with YOU. I think you should treat this as the rare and precious thing it is... nurture it, encourage it -- and count yourself lucky!!

 

Also extremely important, you should be taking good care of yourself too. Men in general appreciate women who take good care of themselves, and who don't depend on anyone else to do so. And it makes you a better partner, and a strong and independent woman in your own right. Which is incredibly sexy to a man.

[Mr. Lucky]

We have gone to counseling but the counselor said my husband must come back with IC.

I think your therapist has recognized that, regardles of how he got there, your H is at a place where MC is useless. Even a good marriage is hard work, and fixing a broken marriage is a Herculean task that can frustrate even the most committed couple. So, as you've already realized, the ball is in his court. Until he lets go of the anger and resentment and decides he really wants a better relationship, you'll continue to circle the drain. As long as he plays the blame game, you're stuck. Wish I had better news for you, but I think things might get even tougher. Not sure how long (and how much sense it makes ) you're willing to hang in there...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Lizzie60]

doesn't look good at all...

 

If I were you, unless you don't want to live like roomates, I say... leave him alone... just do your stuff and pay no attention to him.

 

My bet is that he has fallen out of love with you.. and I wouldn't be surprised if he has someone else on the side...

 

Don't forget that firemen are #1 female fantasy.. and lots of women would do anything to have a relationship with one...

[whichwayisup]

The bottomline is, you two owe it to your kids, let alone to eachother, to give it your best by going to marriage counselling and really trying. 24 years is a long history together.

 

Atleast if you try and it doesn't work out, you'll know you gave it your best shot.

[libertybelle]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful and timely responses. It's good to hear unbiased opinions on my situation. Just for the record, I have felt a number of things you guys have put into words. Foremost, that it's possible another woman could be involved (as much as it pains me to say this). My husband is a good looking man and being a fireman, he certainly has the time when we're away at school. Second, I have felt for some time that he is out of love with me. While, he contiues to remain in the marriage and say he "loves" me, his actions and words indicate otherwise. Finally, I kind of get the feeling there is more to what he is saying. It just doesn't "feel right" that after everything we have been through he would focus on the negative and blame me for everything. Anyway, I want to save our marriage, but it takes two. My husband must forgive and admit to his shortcomings as well before we can move on. The way things are going, I doubt if that's going to happen. I am a hard working professional and work out 5 days a week so I have a life outside of our home. I can only hope and pray things will work out but I will not be his "whipping post" any longer. Thank you again and if you think of anything else, please post it.

 

Lib

[StillSame]

Foremost, that it's possible another woman could be involved (as much as it pains me to say this). My husband is a good looking man and being a fireman, he certainly has the time when we're away at school.

 

Why don't you start digging? Cell phone records, emails, etc. Hire an private investigator if you have to. This is your marriage, your family, your life you're talking about. Get to the bottom of things.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Anyway, about 18 months ago, my husband became different. He no longer was interestest in any intimacy, physcial or otherwise.

 

Your story reads like a classic affair story. The kind that starts with your first post and ends with "I found out he has been seeing someone for X number of months/years".

 

He had probably been in an affair for about six months or longer already, and the OW pressuring him to make his break. That's how long it usually takes before the affair starts erupting into the status quo of the marriage - it usually takes the form of exactly what your H is doing: rewriting marital history to make it look like the the problem is the marriage (with you of course being blamed for it). That way he can justify what he is doing behind your back, and tell OW that he is "staying for the kids". That way he can keep both of you.

 

You weren't seeing the beginning of an affair 18 months ago - but rather the result of the affair taking a more 'serious' turn (ie: the whole 'I'll leave my W by X date' talk).

 

Your H is no doubt between a rock (OW wanting him to leave you) and a hard place (him not wanting to leave his marriage/status quo).

 

Is he having an affair? I'd bet money on it. My advice? If you can, hire a PI to rule it out. You'll likely be glad you did.

[PerfectLee]

I would also say that he's probably having an affair, and you should do some digging. This is your life, and he promised to build it with you not apart from you.

 

I hate that a "whipping post" is what you feel like. I tell my GF sometimes when she gets out of line "I am NOT your punching bag!" The truth will reveal itself sooner or later, I just hope you don't find out later.

[libertybelle]

Well I guess you kind folks at LS are just saying what I've been thinking in the back of my mind for these past months. I know things don't look good. I pay the bills and nothing fishy so far regarding cell phone, credit card expenses, etc. But in his line of work, as I mentioned, he would have plenty of time to cover his tracks of that's what he is up too. At this stage of the game I would like to know if another woman is involved and or if he is out of love with me. Better to know the truth and deal with it. But quite honestly, if there is someone else, I can't see myself fighting for someone who doesn't want me. Thanks for your input.

 

Lib

[Frances]

Well I guess you kind folks at LS are just saying what I've been thinking in the back of my mind for these past months. I know things don't look good. I pay the bills and nothing fishy so far regarding cell phone, credit card expenses, etc. But in his line of work, as I mentioned, he would have plenty of time to cover his tracks of that's what he is up too. At this stage of the game I would like to know if another woman is involved and or if he is out of love with me. Better to know the truth and deal with it. But quite honestly, if there is someone else, I can't see myself fighting for someone who doesn't want me. Thanks for your input.

 

Lib

 

 

Does he spend a lot of time on the internet? If he is communicating by email to another women you would have very little sign of this. Internet relationships take away from the marriage big time. It is very easy to fall for someone on line as they only let each other person know what they want them to know. It is really a fantasy relationship where everything is perfect about that person, not like the reality that real life entails.

 

He may of course just want to do something constructive about your marriage. Putting all the blame on you is of course not a good way of doing it. I hope things work out for you.

[child_of_isis]

This is classic mid life crisis. Classic I tell you.

 

The 'blame' is the first clue. Rewriting the M is another.

 

If he were having an A, you would have found proof on his cell.

 

BUT...he may have his eye on someone. Maybe an EA. He is wondering how the single life would be feeling about now.

 

Stand your ground concerning the "whipping post". The sooner the better.

 

I have been through this with my SO for the last 7 months. It is a mess. Mine didn't have an OW either and he started acting the same way.

 

I gave him the single life real quick like. And he has been miserable ever since.

 

At this point in his life...he is going to mourn whatever he thinks he can't have. Be it freedom, his family, nights out with the budz... blah blah.....do you see where I am going with this?

 

I think it boils down to either being the one he blames....or the one he mourns.

 

MLC is a tricky tricky thing. It becomes all about freedom from whatever they consider 'restraints'.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful and timely responses. It's good to hear unbiased opinions on my situation. Just for the record, I have felt a number of things you guys have put into words. Foremost, that it's possible another woman could be involved (as much as it pains me to say this). My husband is a good looking man and being a fireman, he certainly has the time when we're away at school. Second, I have felt for some time that he is out of love with me. While, he contiues to remain in the marriage and say he "loves" me, his actions and words indicate otherwise. Finally, I kind of get the feeling there is more to what he is saying. It just doesn't "feel right" that after everything we have been through he would focus on the negative and blame me for everything. Anyway, I want to save our marriage, but it takes two. My husband must forgive and admit to his shortcomings as well before we can move on. The way things are going, I doubt if that's going to happen. I am a hard working professional and work out 5 days a week so I have a life outside of our home. I can only hope and pray things will work out but I will not be his "whipping post" any longer. Thank you again and if you think of anything else, please post it.

 

Lib

[libertybelle]

It's possible he's going through a midlife crisis or worse I suppose. He seems to forget that no one is perfect, himself included. He sure has rewritten the history of our marriage. I told him since I make him so unahappy to leave already. He says he doesn't want too, wants to stay. I told him he's got a funny way of showing he wants to stay. Whenever we do have any discussion on this (and believe me I'm starting to avoid anything personal), it's a constant blame game. When I tell him his anger, resentment, inability to accept responsbility for his actions or to forgive mine is ruining our marriage his immediate comeback is I did this to us in the first place. I'm not going to discuss anything personal anymore. If he wants out, he knows where the door is.

[child_of_isis]

They become very angry. It is best not to engage. The tactic is to act in a way that will provoke an angry reaction from you. It mirrors what they feel inside.

 

They need an enemy.

 

They become the opposite of what they were. And VERY VERY self absorbed.

[libertybelle]

Child of Isis:

 

You are hitting the nail on the head for what's happening at home. How long did all this last for you and was it ever resolved?

[child_of_isis]

It all started last year at about this time. I dunno, maybe his 40th birthday kicked it in.

 

In June, he left 3 times during a scream fest. The 3rd time I wouldn't let him come home. I couldn't deal with it. I couldn't bear the way he looked at me. Like he hated my guts.

 

I have been the apple of this guys eye for 13 years.

 

Since then, we have been back and forth. Getting together, then the crap and anger starts.

 

I am having my own anger issues also. I am not used to playing second fiddle. Hell, I am not even second fiddle anymore, I am low man on the totem pole.

 

Yes, I was engaging. But now that I see the dynamics, I'm not. Because it is a no winner. The last split, I went NC for a month and it dissipated a lot of his anger. I am still living with mine due to no longer being his top priority. That is the hardest thing for me.

 

Evidently during the month of NC both of us came to the conclusion that we are not ready to let one another go.

 

Really, it boils down to him needing tons of space. And major amounts of time alone.

 

He has his own place, I have mine. He's not the same yet. I don't know if he will ever be the same. The R probably won't either.

 

The most important things I have learned through my own experience:

DO NOT ENGAGE. Hopefully he will find something else to hate besides the R. If you start having anger issues, get to a counselor.

Don't kick him out if he doesn't want to go.

Don't ask him where he has been or where he is going or what time he will be back.

Don't phone him when he is gone.

Don't expect (or coerce) him into doing things with you or for you.

Keep the lines of communication open. If he wants to talk, listen. Don't talk to him, let him talk to you. If you start bringing up your own issues, it will lead to a meltdown.

If there is not an OW, I think it is crucial to keep a sexual connection. (all bets are off in the case of an OW)

Do not "work" on the R. Don't even say these words. Work on yourself.

 

I hang around LS quite a bit, so I'll be here when you need me.

 

 

How long has he been like this? I was convinced that mine had an OW also. But he gave me his phone records and there was nothing there. I went through months and months of records. Zilch! So trust me when I tell you that this does not have to be about an A. They just exhibit the same signs.

 

Okay...I've written a book ;-)

[libertybelle]

Well, husband and I had a pretty big blow up last night (initiated by him I might add). He kept saying that I have been distant, etc. Anyway, I had been avoiding any confrontation but I thought (wrongly) we had been getting along pretty well. Anyway, one thing led to another and we both said some pretty harsh things in the heat of the moment. Now I have wondered in the back of my mind if there was or is someone else or possible if he longs for someone else. But, while we had discussed this a few times at the beginning of all this turmoil 18 months ago, the issue is left alone. Last night I asked him if there was someone else and he screamed back that he wishes he had been with someone. Anyway, we said a few more choice things and both stormed off. Both kids were not home thankfully so hear all this so before they came back I thought we better hash this mess out. He refused to discuss anything, saying I had said some hurtful thiings. Of course so had he. I was thinking last night and came to a few conclusions here. I have always pretty much been happy in my marriage. It wasn't perfect (whose is) but I thought it was pretty good. Because you have to accept people for who they are. My husband, on the other hand, is not happy and in hindsight hasn't been for at least 18 months. Maybe longer. He has rewritten our whole marriage and placed every bit of blame and unhappiness he feels on me. When we had another big blow up a year ago, I tried to changed and make him happy. I realized now that you can't make anybody happy, happiness comes from within. No matter what I do, it's not going to make him happy. I wanted to tell him that last night but as always he refuses to listen. In order for this marriage to work, he is going to have to get some IC and figure out why he is so unhappy. If it's another woman he is pining for and wants the single life, he better figure that out too. He said a year ago he wants to remain married. Then he better go to the counselor and figure out why if he has decided to maintain his committment he is still so unahppy. Oh well. Thanks for listening.

[Kasan]

How about counseling for the both of you? Look, you both have made the commitment to work on the marriage, but continue to have these circular fights that never seem to get resolved.

 

Resentments, and old hurts are compounding, and this is so unproductive and destructive in a marriage.

 

If you can't both do marriage counseling, then perhaps you can change how you react to him, if you want the marriage to work.

 

There are some great sites on the web, marriagebuilders.com, divorcebusting.com, and a lot of informative books, that I am sure that anyone here at LS can give you. T

 

You say that he is unhappy and needs to figure it out, but unfortunately his unhappiness is affecting the family, so it is your problem too.

 

By the way, women go through MLC also. Good luck!

[libertybelle]

Well, we had both been to marriage counseling. The therapist told us not to come back since my husband needed IC with his anger and resentment issues. So he went once or twice I think. Anyway, as much as it pains me to say it, my mere presence annoys my husband. It doesn't matter what I do or say, he doesn't like it. The anger and resentment has built up in him so much that I hope it doesn't destroy us. When I told him that he said it was because of what I did to him that started this in the first place. So you see, it's never going to get any better. I suppose I could go for IC to see what I should do. But it isn't going to change the root of the problem, that my hsuband is very unhappy.

[Mr. Lucky]

The most important things I have learned through my own experience:

DO NOT ENGAGE. Hopefully he will find something else to hate besides the R. If you start having anger issues, get to a counselor.

Don't kick him out if he doesn't want to go.

Don't ask him where he has been or where he is going or what time he will be back.

Don't phone him when he is gone.

Don't expect (or coerce) him into doing things with you or for you.

Keep the lines of communication open. If he wants to talk, listen. Don't talk to him, let him talk to you. If you start bringing up your own issues, it will lead to a meltdown.

If there is not an OW, I think it is crucial to keep a sexual connection. (all bets are off in the case of an OW)

Do not "work" on the R. Don't even say these words. Work on yourself.

Isis, how does a relationship survive, much less flourish, under those guidelines? On some level, you have to be accountable to each other, otherwise why be together?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mino]

It all started last year at about this time. I dunno, maybe his 40th birthday kicked it in.

 

In June, he left 3 times during a scream fest. The 3rd time I wouldn't let him come home. I couldn't deal with it. I couldn't bear the way he looked at me. Like he hated my guts.

 

I have been the apple of this guys eye for 13 years.

 

Since then, we have been back and forth. Getting together, then the crap and anger starts.

 

I am having my own anger issues also. I am not used to playing second fiddle. Hell, I am not even second fiddle anymore, I am low man on the totem pole.

 

Yes, I was engaging. But now that I see the dynamics, I'm not. Because it is a no winner. The last split, I went NC for a month and it dissipated a lot of his anger. I am still living with mine due to no longer being his top priority. That is the hardest thing for me.

 

Evidently during the month of NC both of us came to the conclusion that we are not ready to let one another go.

 

Really, it boils down to him needing tons of space. And major amounts of time alone.

 

He has his own place, I have mine. He's not the same yet. I don't know if he will ever be the same. The R probably won't either.

 

The most important things I have learned through my own experience:

DO NOT ENGAGE. Hopefully he will find something else to hate besides the R. If you start having anger issues, get to a counselor.

Don't kick him out if he doesn't want to go.

Don't ask him where he has been or where he is going or what time he will be back.

Don't phone him when he is gone.

Don't expect (or coerce) him into doing things with you or for you.

Keep the lines of communication open. If he wants to talk, listen. Don't talk to him, let him talk to you. If you start bringing up your own issues, it will lead to a meltdown.

If there is not an OW, I think it is crucial to keep a sexual connection. (all bets are off in the case of an OW)

Do not "work" on the R. Don't even say these words. Work on yourself.

 

I hang around LS quite a bit, so I'll be here when you need me.

 

 

How long has he been like this? I was convinced that mine had an OW also. But he gave me his phone records and there was nothing there. I went through months and months of records. Zilch! So trust me when I tell you that this does not have to be about an A. They just exhibit the same signs.

 

Okay...I've written a book ;-)

Hi, just have a question, How long do you live with all these new rules? The not asking, not talking...ect? This does not sound like a marriage to me, this sound like the relationship I have with my college kid! (kinda) she comes and goes how she pleases, I dont ask, She is grumpy alot, so I let her start conversations. I mean this does not make sense, If one partner is done, why would you even want to stay? To play roomate, for the outside world to think everything is peachy? Is your happiness not worth more? Sounds like a very lonely life....

[child_of_isis]

It doesn't survive.

 

Once again, I have given it up and am going no contact.

 

I can't live like this.

 

I can't be treated like this.

 

Isis, how does a relationship survive, much less flourish, under those guidelines? On some level, you have to be accountable to each other, otherwise why be together?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

It doesn't survive.

 

Once again, I have given it up and am going no contact.

 

I can't live like this.

 

I can't be treated like this.

I guess that was my point - no one should be treated like that. I hope the pain you're obviously going through gains you a chance at the happiness you deserve. Stay strong...

 

Mr. Lucky