Lishy Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Shadow that is the best advice yet! WHat she needs to do is cut all contact and then he will know how he really feels. He has to lose her to feel it! Having sex with him just enables him to have his cake and eat it and whilst she will be crying he will be as happy as a sand boy! Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 What exactly are you trying to accomplish here, Lishy? Do you enjoy kicking someone while they're down? Not at all, but when you have people saying that it must be good just to be with him when he has basically requested a fk buddy is wrong! Link to post Share on other sites
Krytie TV Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 What exactly are you trying to accomplish here, Lishy? Do you enjoy kicking someone while they're down? I think Lishy's right, actually. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowplay Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Not at all, but when you have people saying that it must be good just to be with him when he has basically requested a fk buddy is wrong! Okay, you were responding to Ariadne's post... Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Yes I was! Link to post Share on other sites
shadowplay Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Er...I meant why buy the "cow" if you can get the "milk" for free. Link to post Share on other sites
Kamille Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I'm so sorry SG. ((Stargazer)). I know how it feels to not be ready to cut the 'friend switch' yet, but you have to take care of yourself first right now. I wish we could all collectively give you the strenght to go NC right now. This guy doesn't deserve your understanding right now, you have already been more then understanding. Get angry Star, please. You deserve none of this. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 You know sometimes we can meet the right person at the wrong time. Timing is everything in life. So he very well may be the right person for you but it's just not the right time. You have to let him go, Star. And I'm really sorry this turned out this way. But you can't allow yourself to be used this way. And now you ARE being used. Have some self-respect here. I'm shocked that you slept with him after all of this. If you really are serious about wanting a relationship and eventually a family, you need to let this one go. Think of it as being on a mission. The more you time you spend with this lost cause of a relationship, the more time you are losing. The right man is out there. But you won't find him if you're wasting time with the wrong man...a man who just simply isn't ready for you now. A man who pretty much told you that he doesn't want what you do. Please let him go, Star. Don't waste any more time with him. You're just going to have to be tough. Don't be surprised if he has a change of heart though if you pull away. You may have overwhelmed him with "too much, too soon." Step back and he might just reassess things. He can't do that as long as you're still in the picture. But really, it doesn't sound like he's at the same stage in life as you are. Time to just cut your losses on this one, I'm sorry to say. Link to post Share on other sites
oppath Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 He's leaving in 2 weeks, right? I'm sorry, Star, as I do believe he has some strong feelings but he's just not in a place with the move and stress to invest anything else. He simply has been resisting to the point it has killed some things for him. Is he using you? It's not his intent, just what it is happening in application. I wouldn't get pissed, I'd get strong. Certainly, I understand that you want to see him these next two weeks. No contact isn't always the best way for everyone. See him if you must. But you are lovable, you are amazing, and you need to put yourself first so you can heal. Link to post Share on other sites
Nemo Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 You know sometimes we can meet the right person at the wrong time. Timing is everything in life. So he very well may be the right person for you but it's just not the right time. Wow. You're a philosopher, too. A philosopher with her finger on the pulse. Excellent post. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 He's leaving in 2 weeks, right? I'm sorry, Star, as I do believe he has some strong feelings but he's just not in a place with the move and stress to invest anything else. He simply has been resisting to the point it has killed some things for him. Is he using you? It's not his intent, just what it is happening in application. I wouldn't get pissed, I'd get strong. Certainly, I understand that you want to see him these next two weeks. No contact isn't always the best way for everyone. See him if you must. But you are lovable, you are amazing, and you need to put yourself first so you can heal. Oppath, for some reason, I always feel like you actually know what's going on, the entire picture...but that's probably because I share so many tid-bits with you away from LS. But anyway, yes. He leaves in 2 weeks. I believe he has strong feelings as well, but I also believe he has made those emotions unavailable to me, and I don't know that he ever will. He'll have to have a job and be truly stable before he'll ever open up to the possibility of love (pretty much his own words), and who knows when that will be. Will I wait around forever? No. Will I continue to see him for at least these next two weeks? To the disappointment of all of you, most likely yes. Here's the thing...(Shadow knows about this): I am in love with him. However irrational that may be, I am. Many of you have previously said that I should let him know how I really feel, because although the feelings might not be reciprocated, the "right guy" wouldn't freak out at my disclosure and it would be good to get it off my chest. I pondered this for a few weeks, and then decided that in the anticipation of him leaving, I really needed him to know how I felt. I couldn't let him move away without knowing how I feel, and at the same time I felt it necessary to gauge his reaction. Not really a "test" in purpose, but a test in effect. So I wrote him this letter explaining it all - very heartfelt and nicely written, if I do say so myself - and emailed it to him on NYE morning. It was my NY resolution to myself - I'm not going to hide my feelings anymore, I'm not going to walk on eggshells, and if he's not the one for me I'll know. I made it clear to him that I expected I was far ahead in my feelings than he was, and that was okay. I told him I didn't expect anything in return, and that he shouldn't feel guilty or bad if he's not able to reciprocate my feelings now, or even ever. Contrary to my intention, he did feel badly and guilty about not being able to reciprocate my feelings because he knows - like most of you do - that I deserve someone who's willing and able to give me emotionally what I need and want right now. This letter is what prompted our "talk" on NYE. I can't exactly articulate why, but I would have rather been met with silence to my letter than that talk...or at least waited until closer to his move date. I already knew he didn't feel the same way I did, I already knew that he was holding himself back and somewhat emotionally unavailable to me. So after the talk, I really felt like I had stabbed myself in the foot by writing him that letter. I kinda thought that my disclosure wouldn't surprise him, as I assumed that through my words and actions I had already expressed my feelings for him. But the news came as quite a shock; I don't think he really believed me. Anyway, on the way back from skiing (where we spent the whole day as "buddies," no affection or anything), I asked him what would have happened if I had never sent him that letter. He said he didn't know, that he probably would have continued along as things were, hoping that his job situation worked out for the benefit of "us," but that he'd had so many concerns about that situation and his needs to put himself first for now that the "talk" probably would have happened eventually. I told him I questioned whether I should have written the letter at all, and wished things still were the way they were before the "talk," because even just hanging out with him was difficult for me, as I found it difficult to be around him and not BF-GF'dy. He said he spent a lot of time thinking about it yesterday, and that if I wanted things back the way they were before, they would be. Then he called his best friend (who's in town from Idaho) who he was supposed to go to dinner with and canceled on him to spend the evening with me. Almost as soon as we got home, we were going at it. It was passionate, but we're always passionate. This morning, he said it was the best we've had, that it was so intense, and that he couldn't stop thinking about it. While it was great sex, it wasn't earth-shattering or anything, so I'm confused why that particular time was any different for him. Perhaps it's different to have sex with something whom you know is in love with you, rather than just assume is. Who knows. Then he went out to get us dinner and a movie - he never goes alone, always drags me with him. The place was closed, and he drove from place to place looking for what I wanted for dinner. He'd call, "It's closed, where do you want me to go next?" ... "It's closed too, where do you want me to go next?" Usually, our decisions about dinner or whatever are collaborative, but this time it was all about me. After dinner, he gave me a leg massage...usually he's the one playfully asking me to rub his neck or something, and this time he was like, "I'm gonna rub your legs so you're not so sore tomorrow." This morning, he freakin' ironed my clothes and went out to start my car for me to warm it up. He's never done that before. He's also pretty much broke, but whipped out his card pretty quickly to pay for my pretty expensive lift ticket yesterday when I realized it wasn't included in my private lesson. He's going above and beyond what he ever did before. Is this out of regret? Or guilt? Who knows. As I was leaving this morning, he asked to take me out again sometime this week. I agreed. And a few minutes ago, he called and we chatted about our day so far, as if nothing had ever happened. I know you will all tell me I'm crazy, this will never work, etc., but I still want it to. I don't want to stop seeing him and being with him. It'll hurt if/when it ends, for sure, but I feel as though the gross majority of the hurt has already been experienced, if that makes sense. Like I'm over the hump of hurt, and it's all downhill from here. I've pulled back dramatically, I think, and for some reason he seems to be responding. However, I don't like the push/pull that seems to control our relationship, it's exhausting. I'm exhausted. Regardless of what happens, I know I'll be okay. Link to post Share on other sites
KenzieAbsolutely Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) the lack of pressure on him is what is making him so happy and eager to please you. i wouldn't confuse it with the idea of his newfound love for you, because in my opinion, i think he is simply giddy with relief at finally getting his feelings out in the open, and you still hanging around for fun til he leaves. now when you get hurt at the end, he won't have to feel guilty, because you knew the deal. not trying to be mean, but this is how i see it. i've done this to people before too, so i kinda know the signs, though yes, as you'll argue, all people are different and i don't know the entire situation and every little detail. but this is how i see it. Edited January 2, 2008 by KenzieAbsolutely Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 i think he is simply giddy with relief at finally getting his feelings out in the open, and you still hanging around for fun til he leaves. now when you get hurt at the end, he won't have to feel guilty, because you knew the deal. Bang On... ( no pun intended ). He doesn't want the last 2 weeks to be lonely and spent by himself.. Of course in reality nobody really knows what he is thinking.. but if it were me I would be thinking down those lines. SG.. try and stay away from the sex and see if you can pull this into 2 ex lovers hanging out for 2 weeks till the other leaves.. You might want to also start putting distance between you both.. See if you pulling away involks a reaction out of him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 the lack of pressure on him is what is making him so happy and eager to please you. i wouldn't confuse it with the idea of his newfound love for you, because in my opinion, i think he is simply giddy with relief at finally getting his feelings out in the open, and you still hanging around for fun til he leaves. now when you get hurt at the end, he won't have to feel guilty, because you knew the deal. not trying to be mean, but this is how i see it. i've done this to people before too, so i kinda know the signs, though yes, as you'll argue, all people are different and i don't know the entire situation and every little detail. but this is how i see it. Perhaps you're right, but I'm willing to take that risk. I'm willing to take the risk of getting hurt for the possibility that alleviating a TON of pressure will help him figure out what he really wants. Maybe he wants me, maybe he doesn't, but will the pressure of "us" hanging over his head while figuring out what he was going to do with his life, he found it impossible to figure that out. He's not even ready to attempt to figure it out. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 You might want to also start putting distance between you both.. See if you pulling away involks a reaction out of him. I already did, and it already has. Something I left out of my earlier post was that when he asked to be friends, I flatly told him that I didn't think it was possible. I said that we'd go skiing together on NYD because we were already set to go, but not to expect to be able to see or talk to me after that because I might not be able to handle it. I explained that I didn't know how I'd feel in the future, so he couldn't assume that just because I'm okay with being friends today that I could still be friends tomorrow...that there's a chance that I'd be gone forever. As soon as those words came out of my mouth, he was in tears and being very sweet. Like Oppath said, if he ends up "using me," it will be in effect not intention. I can handle this. The guy doesn't have a malicious bone in his body, he's seen how hurt I am through all of this, and he's just not the guy who would willingly act knowing that he will in fact only cause me even more pain down the road. Link to post Share on other sites
underpants Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I'm willing to take the risk of getting hurt for the possibility that alleviating a TON of pressure Well, Good for you Star. See, you can love someone and watch them walk away and still stand strong. I think that takes some true character. In a way I think you are facing some of those abandoment issues straight on and dealing with them. By being open and honest with someone you never abandon yourself. If he does decide he can't handle a relationship then you will know that you did give it your all and put it on the table. If you have to let go of him, then use this experience to keep that heart of your's open. Maybe he was just brought into your life to help your soul grow a little. He might feel like a chump after a few weeks away from you. I hope he man's up but if not. I am sure he will feel the loss at some point. Chin up. Link to post Share on other sites
sunshinegirl Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Sweetie, I read this entire thread. I'm so sorry for what's happened. This stood out to me: I'm willing to take the risk of getting hurt for the possibility that alleviating a TON of pressure will help him figure out what he really wants. Maybe he wants me, maybe he doesn't, but will the pressure of "us" hanging over his head while figuring out what he was going to do with his life, he found it impossible to figure that out. Honey, he told you what he really wants - not to be in a relationship with you. I sense you are operating out of denial right now. I hope you are right that you have already experienced the bulk of the hurt... but I fear that you haven't. I worry that in these two weeks you will get more mixed signals* from him that you will build up into a mountain of hope that things will work out differently. *They're not the least bit mixed from where I sit - he is operating out of guilt & relief, not love. But I know it's confusing from where you sit. You will do what you need to do, and if that's continuing your contact with him, and continuing to sleep with him (!!!!), so be it. The only thing I would offer is that you are now engaging in pretty classic doormat behavior, which you were concerned about avoiding early on in this thread. I hope that doesn't come off as mean or critical; I just wish you could step outside yourself to see what's going on, so you could take better care of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Lishy Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Star this is why alot of relationships fail, men hate weak willed, needy women who just cry and allow disrespect! You may as well lay on the floor and let him wipe his feet on you on the way out! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks, Sunshinegirl. I appreciate your input. I'm very hurt right now, and perhaps I am in denial. No one wants to admit to themselves that the person they love doesn't love them back - but I do know that. He doesn't. I realize he's not acting out of love, and that he's likely influenced by guilt and relief. But right now I still can't help but hope that part of the reason he's behaving this way is because he too is holding on to some sliver of hope that things will someday change for the better once he knows what he's doing job wise. I think the fairest assessment of this situation at this point is this: He's trying to enjoy his time with me while he can without guilt (the whole, "Hey, I told you I didn't want a relationship!" thing), while also preserving the chance for a future together if/when things work out the way we've wanted them to all along job-wise. There's a very real likelihood that this is it, that when he leaves our romantic future will be donzo. But again, I'm lame and in love, so I cannot help at this point to hold on to that smidgen of a chance that he does come back ready, willing, and able to pick up where we left off. Link to post Share on other sites
shadowplay Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I agree with Art Critic that you should at least cut out the sex. He'll value more if you do, believe me. Spend time with him in a more platonic way and let him win you over. I also don't think you did any damage with the letter. The letter didn't change his feelings toward you; it just hastened a talk that would have already happened. Never regret being honest about your feelings. You were perfectly justified in doing so. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 I agree with Art Critic that you should at least cut out the sex. He'll value more if you do, believe me. Spend time with him in a more platonic way and let him win you over. I also don't think you did any damage with the letter. The letter didn't change his feelings toward you; it just hastened a talk that would have already happened. Never regret being honest about your feelings. You were perfectly justified in doing so. Thanks, SP. After much reflection, I agree on both points. Link to post Share on other sites
oppath Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 I agree, the letter hastened something that was coming anyway. He'd been acting a bit distant for a couple weeks. the conversation was coming. It may have waited until He left, but it was coming. Star, you are strong enough to give him the best sex ever and walk away in the end. I'm not sure you can feel more hurt. I do think if you see him, no sex, and no spending the night. You can hang out with him in a platonic manner, to celebrate the short time you were together, because you like each other, but don't let him use you sexually, even if it is in application and not intent. I say this because you do have a sliver of hope. Let him figure his stuff out without sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Star Gazer Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 Okay, let me ask...without any physical contact? Is kissing out the window too? Link to post Share on other sites
oppath Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Eh, who am I kidding. I'd cave too. I'd honestly ask him point blank "have you just been trying to spare my feelings?" There is no wrong thing here, Star. You've already been hurt. Just don't do anything that could hurt you more. I think you could sleep with him like bunny rabbits and it is not going to hurt you more given the context of everything and the timeline. Sometimes a drawn out goodbye is better. I don't think you are going to get all mad 2 months later and start feeling worthless because he would have sex with you still after ending it. Given the context, that is not how you will feel. Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Oh I'd let him kiss you. But nothing else. Your only, ONLY chance here is to really pull back. I still say you gave too much too soon. Let him chase you. Let him miss you. Men need this to really figure out where they stand and what their feelings are. I really believe that. And everyone can say, games, yada, yada. Whatever. I just know what's "worked" for me in the past and what hasn't. It's all up to you now, Star. There might still be a chance for this. I'm still not sure about the timing here, but there's a chance. It's all in your hands though I believe. Play this right and you may end up with everything you want. Botch it up and you'll botch it up for good. When he leaves, you have to let him initiate MOST of the contact. If he doesn't, well you'll know where you stand. But I have a feeling you'll be hearing from him. But you need to not text or call. Meantime, hang out but stop having sex with him. Be cool. Be friendly. Be warm, but don't go overboard. There's a right way to play this. Link to post Share on other sites
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