Should I contact OM or tell his girlfriend?

[underpants]

Its "over" if you do nothing. THAT is your surest bet here. Taking action is far more likely to put pressure on all of them to end the affair...which is why she's trying to bully your silence.

 

This rings true to me.

 

I think exposure is the quickest, most honest and fairest route for all parties involved.

 

Affairs thrive on secrecy and manipulation.

 

Level the playing field.

 

Put the cold hard truth out their and let them deal with the consequences of their choices.

 

You may or may not get her back, but you can hold your head up high knowing that you exposed it. Down the road she will be forced to respect your honesty. This guys girlfriend will do what she wants with the knowledge but she will have made an informed decision.

[Tomcat33]

An inaccurate generalization. I broke it off with my OW once and only once.

 

Whenever someone say "Cheaters do _____", watch out, because cheaters like all people are different, one to the next!

 

Did you tell your W your OW was not the one but neither was she and this is why you were having an affair? Did you continue to contact your OW after you decided it was done? Did you threaten your W to keep the affair silent or else you would walk from her? Unless you answered yes to any of those, which would negate your point that cheaters DON'T always go back after a break-up, then you are comparing apples and oranges.

[LifesontheUp]

As I understand it, he believes that they should have a cooling off period during which she can decide whether she really wants out or not. This stems from the fact that she hasn't been able to articulate any real reason for being unhappy in the marriage. And if he wants to give her that benefit of the doubt, then that's his business.

 

As far as treating him like dirt goes, I think he does see it and still chooses to give her one more chance. Hence my original statement of kudos to him!

 

I agree its entirely up to him what he does. However you know yourself that they have the minutest chance of this working if she continues to be in contact with the OM.

 

Come on she's already using all the typical responses of someone still fully in the affairyland fog by telling him its over if contacts the OM, she doesn't know why she did it etc etc.

 

Yes give her a chance BUT she has to go NC with other man for them to even have a hope of sorting it out.

[Tomcat33]

Am I missing something here? She doesn't want another chance, she's already told him she doesn't want him anymore. What more is there to do, what chance is he trying to give? She's treating him like dirt and unfortunately he is unable to see it fully yet.

 

 

EXACTLY! And some of you want him to proceed because he will win her over again? NEVER like this. He is killing an attraction that is already half dead.

[Tomcat33]

Yes give her a chance BUT she has to go NC with other man for them to even have a hope of sorting it out.

 

 

And she has to do in on her own account in order to prove to the OP she is SERIOUS about what she did and about terminating the affair to recover the love of her husband.

 

If you treat her like a troubled teenager and ground her to her room you will only make her rebell even more, the affiar with this man will end if everyone finds out but there is no chance in hell he is winning her love back. Not a hope.

[Tomcat33]

You may or may not get her back, but you can hold your head up high knowing that you exposed it. Down the road she will be forced to respect your honesty. This guys girlfriend will do what she wants with the knowledge but she will have made an informed decision.

 

HE won't hold his head high at all, because he will feel good for a few instants then reality will set in that he solved NOTHING by exposing them, for all he knows the OM's g/f might even already know, and he will feel even crappier for resorting to a desperate meassure that was only done with the mere intent to get his W back only to find he got nothing in return. And nothing makes you feel crappier than knowing you did all this work for nothing.

 

He is doing it for all the wrong reasons he won't feel good about it at all.

He is setting himself up for further dissapointment

[michaelk]

I defer to your greater knowledge of affairs, and agree that her ultimatum is merely a defense of the affair. He definitely needs to act, although the open question is whether those actions should include informing the other BS.

 

People may be 'individuals'. But they tend to vary little when put through the same situation. That's part of "human nature". If we were that unpredictable, society would never have come about.

 

I have a hard time with this statement. Lack of predictability does not mean an inability to organize into large scale structures, and there are many examples of this in non-linear natural systems. For example, we can't predict whether it will rain or not with much accuracy, yet global weather is a stable system with large-scale organization. I see human behavior in the same way. I cannot predict what you will do, especially under extreme circumstances (affair), yet society does exist and is stable.

 

Sorry for the digression...

[michaelk]

I agree its entirely up to him what he does. However you know yourself that they have the minutest chance of this working if she continues to be in contact with the OM.

 

Come on she's already using all the typical responses of someone still fully in the affairyland fog by telling him its over if contacts the OM, she doesn't know why she did it etc etc.

 

Yes give her a chance BUT she has to go NC with other man for them to even have a hope of sorting it out.

 

100% agree!

[michaelk]

Did you tell your W your OW was not the one but neither was she and this is why you were having an affair? Did you continue to contact your OW after you decided it was done? Did you threaten your W to keep the affair silent or else you would walk from her? Unless you answered yes to any of those, which would negate your point that cheaters DON'T always go back after a break-up, then you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

I'm not proud of this, but when my affair was discovered, I pretty much told my wife I wasn't going to stop. I didn't threaten her not to talk because my OW's H already knew what was going on. But I did tell her that I would not leave OW, nor would I leave my kids, and that she was just going to have to deal with it.

 

This led to a few weeks of awful emotional turmoil for everyone involved. Ultimately, the stress of being pulled in two directions nearly broke me (and my W) and THAT is what made me see that I had to choose and which choice to make.

 

The OW saw my situation and agreed to abide by my choice. So when we finally did break up, that was it.

 

Nguy's W needs a similar kick in the pants. She's still in the fog of the affair, and until some shock kicks her out of it, she doesn't know WHAT she really wants. This is another reason I think it's great for him to build a little grace period in so that they both can have time to think. Assuming she's really NC for that period, maybe her head will start to clear.

[norajane]

An inaccurate generalization. I broke it off with my OW once and only once.

 

She hasn't broken it off with the OM at all.

 

And has no intention of doing so - she wants to remain in contact with him and is in contact with him via phone, text, email, etc.

 

The only reason, as far as I can see, that she agreed not to see the OM during the so-called cooling off period is that OM is on vacation out of the country so she wouldn't be able to see him anyway.

[Tomcat33]

I'm not proud of this, but when my affair was discovered, I pretty much told my wife I wasn't going to stop. I didn't threaten her not to talk because my OW's H already knew what was going on. But I did tell her that I would not leave OW, nor would I leave my kids, and that she was just going to have to deal with it.

 

This led to a few weeks of awful emotional turmoil for everyone involved. Ultimately, the stress of being pulled in two directions nearly broke me (and my W) and THAT is what made me see that I had to choose and which choice to make.

 

The OW saw my situation and agreed to abide by my choice. So when we finally did break up, that was it.

 

Nguy's W needs a similar kick in the pants. She's still in the fog of the affair, and until some shock kicks her out of it, she doesn't know WHAT she really wants. This is another reason I think it's great for him to build a little grace period in so that they both can have time to think. Assuming she's really NC for that period, maybe her head will start to clear.

 

Ok this takes on a different colour from what you had posted before.

 

Ok well then let me ask you this, and being someone who was in the cheater shoes and also familiar with being in the fog: in your opinion what do you think is the most effective thing that the OP can do to deal with the situation at hand?

[Owl]

I have a hard time with this statement. Lack of predictability does not mean an inability to organize into large scale structures, and there are many examples of this in non-linear natural systems. For example, we can't predict whether it will rain or not with much accuracy, yet global weather is a stable system with large-scale organization. I see human behavior in the same way. I cannot predict what you will do, especially under extreme circumstances (affair), yet society does exist and is stable.

 

Again, I'll disagree too.

 

There's a huge difference between weather and human behavior.

 

And people will generally behave in the exact same manner to the exact same situation...granted with a FEW exceptions. Nothing is exact. There are some things that can influence the outcome.

 

BUT...the vast MAJORITY of people will respond in a similar enough fashion to be predictable.

 

ESPECIALLY in a situation like what we've got going on here.

 

Now...is it possible that she could respond/react differently than what we've said? YES. Is it LIKELY? NO.

 

You play the odds.

 

I've seen nothing in the poster's story to give me any reason to suspect she'll act differently than the norm. Up to this point...its been textbook.

 

And I still say he should contact the OPS. Take action to end the affair. As long as he's not doing it in a vindictive manner, but in a manner clearly intended to save his marriage...go for it.

 

The ODDS are highest that this will help, not hinder his situation.

[michaelk]

But then again what is more important for me is helping a person in need and not winning some imaginary argument I am not partaking in further beyond this post.

 

What a great post, Tomcat. Thank you.

 

It's all to easy to lose focus on the OP and get sucked into side discussions or arguments. I certainly need to keep that in mind myself.

[Tomcat33]

It's all to easy to lose focus on the OP and get sucked into side discussions or arguments. I certainly need to keep that in mind myself.

 

 

For sure! I can only speak for myself, but my only agenda is to help him win his W back, that's what he says he wants. If I had a personal agenda I would say walk away and don't ever look back, which is what I would do. Clearly what this man wants is to do the exact opposite of that. So keeping that in mind I want him to win his W back but through the act of attraction not whimpiness. To win someone back through wimpiness and pitty is doing yourself a diservice and this man's self esteem is already low having been cheated on so why feed into that by making him do something that is counter productive to his well being?

 

Calling this other couple out of spite will solve nothing right now and only make everyone turn against him and he will get nothing out of it with the result of feeling even more worthless an powerless. Because RARELY do those scenerios end up how a person envisions it. They set themselves up for dissapointment. It's a cheap instant gratification that leads to a big high and an even bigger fall! Why would I encourage him to do that? Because I think affairs are wrong? I think of the big picture for this man not some instant cheap trade off. That is not how you gain power, and he needs to gain power because power is sexy and it instantly deposits feelings of love and attraction in the other person so much so that she will do this because she wants to NOT because she is being forced to. And THAT is what he wants. Not to make MORAL justice for society. Like some people are harping on about here...

Edited December 28, 2007 by Tomcat33

[michaelk]

Ok this takes on a different colour from what you had posted before.

 

Ok well then let me ask you this, and being someone who was in the cheater shoes and also familiar with being in the fog: in your opinion what do you think is the most effective thing that the OP can do to deal with the situation at hand?

 

Well, as I said, I think she needs a shock before she'll open her eyes again. Right now, she doesn't care one whit who she's hurting, and she feels fully justified in what she's doing (for whatever reason).

 

I think she needs to experience some of the emotional turmoil her H must be going through. First off, he needs to make sure he's not holding back his feelings. It's great that he's thinking rationally about how to proceed, but he needs to let that hurt and anger out and she needs to see it. Secondly, she can't continue to see her OM as merely a source of sex/ego boost/whatever. Some drama from his side would help take the shine off of him. This might require telling their employer about the affair or telling the OM's gf. I hate to suggest that, because I don't believe in hurting others as a form of retribution, and that's what it seems like, but maybe it's necessary to get his wife's attention. Thirdly, he needs to sit her down and talk about what went wrong, why she's behaving this way, etc. Ultimately, if they don't take advantage of this emotional environment to open up to each other and air what's going on, they won't reconnect and she won't feel any desire to return to him.

 

This is just a brain dump - hope it made a bit of sense.

[Tomcat33]

Well, as I said, I think she needs a shock before she'll open her eyes again. Right now, she doesn't care one whit who she's hurting, and she feels fully justified in what she's doing (for whatever reason).

 

I think she needs to experience some of the emotional turmoil her H must be going through. First off, he needs to make sure he's not holding back his feelings. It's great that he's thinking rationally about how to proceed, but he needs to let that hurt and anger out and she needs to see it. Secondly, she can't continue to see her OM as merely a source of sex/ego boost/whatever. Some drama from his side would help take the shine off of him. This might require telling their employer about the affair or telling the OM's gf. I hate to suggest that, because I don't believe in hurting others as a form of retribution, and that's what it seems like, but maybe it's necessary to get his wife's attention. Thirdly, he needs to sit her down and talk about what went wrong, why she's behaving this way, etc. Ultimately, if they don't take advantage of this emotional environment to open up to each other and air what's going on, they won't reconnect and she won't feel any desire to return to him.

 

This is just a brain dump - hope it made a bit of sense.

 

I totally agree with all the bolded parts this time should be spent in trying to focus on each other even if is through anger and pain, she needs to see what she has done. I seriously doubt he is being very forthright in this aspect for the same needy fear of losing her so he does nothing to rock the boat.

 

The irony is that sometimes cheaters want to see the turmoil because in their twisted heads this represents love, sort of the "oh wow they do love me afterall" We don't know enough about their past relationship pre-affair, but what I have seen a lot of in the posts here and it could just be a matter of the OP ommitting certain things due to not having enough time/will to want to post it all, is a lot of blame put on this OM and a lot of excuses to justify his W's actions.

[michaelk]

That is not how you gain power, and he needs to gain power because power is sexy and it instantly deposits feelings of love and attraction in the other person so much so that she will do this because she wants to NOT because she is being forced to. And THAT is what he wants.

 

Well, I guess this is an aspect of female psychology that I'm not really tuned into. I've never been one to try an attract women through power, but then again I've never been much of a 'chick magnet'!

 

Seriously, how does he gain power in this situation outside of exercising (or threatening) to reveal the affair? She's got one foot out the door and is in the fog, so she's dismissing him out-of-hand right now.

[Tomcat33]

Another reason I don't think that exposing their affair would do anything is because if they are intent of making this still happen they will do so once all the turmoil dies down. The only thing that will take the sails out of the OMs wings is having the OPs W tell him flat out WE ARE DONE THIS IS OVER NEVER AGAIN, and go NC.

This is the ONLY sure end to the A.

 

 

Seriously, how does he gain power in this situation outside of exercising (or threatening) to reveal the affair? She's got one foot out the door and is in the fog, so she's dismissing him out-of-hand right now.

 

 

Threatening to reveal the affair is gaining power but not the kind of power he wants. It is blackmail power and we all know that blackmail power never ends right. She needs to feel like she is losing him if she does not act fast on her own terms, in order for this to happen he has stop coddling her and making it so that she has all the bragaining power here. Right now she does. Either way he will lose her, if she has one foot out the door then he will lose her either way. So better to lose her with his head up high calling her bluff and working on recapturing some of that attraction that is obvioulsy lost than to hold her back momentarily through an act of force which will keep her there but not in a willful productive way.

 

1. He needs to sit her down and assure her that he loves her and wants to work things out but under his terms, she needs to break off complete contact with her OM and needs to show the OP she is willing to do what it takes to recover the marriage, they need to figure out what that is.

 

2. like you said, they need to discuss why this happened and get to the bottom of it.

 

3. and most importantly he needs to find out if she wants to recover the marriage and what she is willing to do to make this happen or else she loses him. BUT he has to make it clear to her that he will walk if she does not meet him half way, none of this "don't leave me please I love you I'll do anything" if he shows he doesn't love himself enough to respect himself how can he expect to get love from her? Or even more so how can he expect to love her?

 

4. because she has one foot out the door he needs to win her back on his side. Firgure out what went missing and why she went down the path of having an affair and try to give her what she is missing, if she refuses to talk then you might need to go seek councelling. this time should be spent on wining her back WHILE keeping your dignity not begging not to be left. BIG difference.

 

In firm terms he needs to show her that he is willing to play his part but only if she complies. Right now she is doing neither and they are riding the "should we expose the affair or not" train, destination NOWHERE. Why? Because that is not going to solve the big picture. He will still have a ton of unanswered questions that she is not willing to face. How is that in any way producive to their recovery? PLUS add to that the resentment and anger on her part for what he did.

 

 

If in time she has proven to him that she has put her foot down with the OM and is doing everything she can to work on the marriage but the OM is persistent THEN I would seriously consider contacting him to let him know if he persists his cover will be blown with his G/F if he STILL persists you are left with no choice.

 

But I bet you any money if you were to contact the OM and tell him back off or I will call your g/f you'd be surprise what you might find out...his W's true colours would be revealed. Unless the OM is a serial home wrecker then it definitely takes 2 to tango. And this something that is failed to see when thinking that contacting the g/f of the affair partner is going to help.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Tomcat33

[michaelk]

Another reason I don't think that exposing their affair would do anything is because if they are intent of making this still happen they will do so once all the turmoil dies down. The only thing that will take the sails out of the OMs wings is having the OPs W tell him flat out WE ARE DONE THIS IS OVER NEVER AGAIN, and go NC.

This is the ONLY sure end to the A.

 

Yep. This jibes with my experience as well.

 

And I agree with your suggestions on how to handle it. I applaud him for wanting to give her another chance, but he has to be firm about setting the ground rules, and she has to voluntarily buy in.

[norajane]

Seriously, how does he gain power in this situation outside of exercising (or threatening) to reveal the affair? She's got one foot out the door and is in the fog, so she's dismissing him out-of-hand right now.

 

He has to flip the script on her. "Your words and actions are both telling me that I'm not the one for you. I agree - let's separate. I don't want to be with a woman who isn't interested in me or our marriage and who cheats behind my back. Clearly, you aren't the one for me either."

 

Not only does he regain his power by making the choice for her, but he delivers the shock that you spoke of. Having the choice taken away from her and knowing that her husband isn't going to put up with her crap and is perfectly willing to let her go under the circumstances, will likely have the effect of making her truly question whether she really wants to go off in search of 'the one'. As long as the choice is up to her, she can stay in her fog. Take away her choice and the safety in knowing that hubby will stick around while she plays her little games with OM, and suddenly there is a sense of urgency in figuring out whether she's making the right decision by dismissing him and their marriage.

[Tomcat33]

He has to flip the script on her. "Your words and actions are both telling me that I'm not the one for you. I agree - let's separate. I don't want to be with a woman who isn't interested in me or our marriage and who cheats behind my back. Clearly, you aren't the one for me either."

 

Not only does he regain his power by making the choice for her, but he delivers the shock that you spoke of. Having the choice taken away from her and knowing that her husband isn't going to put up with her crap and is perfectly willing to let her go under the circumstances, will likely have the effect of making her truly question whether she really wants to go off in search of 'the one'. As long as the choice is up to her, she can stay in her fog. Take away her choice and the safety in knowing that hubby will stick around while she plays her little games with OM, and suddenly there is a sense of urgency in figuring out whether she's making the right decision by dismissing him and their marriage.

 

 

That's what I'm sayin'!

 

 

The thing is he can keep her as he is doing now, afraid to lose her and making consessions to justify her actions and submitting to her ways walking on eggshells around her (I beleive he said he was doing this in one of his posts forgive me if I missquoted) but the question is what exactly is he gaining by doing this? A woman who is there for the free ride and nothing more? Is that what he wants a freeloading user or does he want the woman he fell in love with, back?

 

Something to think about when divising out the gameplan. And he most definitely needs a game plan she is on the fence and blinded by the affair so he needs a plan of attack you can't just carry on as if nothing hoping she will eventually come around because you now suddenly show her unconditional love. Unconditional love does not exist in romance, if it did you would not be in so much pain over her affair you would smile and look the other way and let her do what she needs to because that is what unconditional love does it accepts with no boundaries. There is no such thing as unconditional love in romance so no use pretending it does exist.

 

I found the quote by Nguy:

 

Yes, my wife has more than one foot out the door and I know that. I will suck it up and eat whatever she dishes out while we figure this out. She has said - not sure I want to put ANY effort into fixing. So for a period, she is calling all the shots and I am on eggshells. I am very much focusing on my marriage. Our case is very opposite most in that I am emotionally available and she isn't.

 

This is what is very alarming to me, that is a recipe for loss not win. Since when does she have all the power? What are you Nguy chopped liver? No way! you need to show her you are worthy too, otherwise why would she choose to stay with you simply because you don't want to divorce or because she pities you? yucky!! you don't want that...in the long run you will resent her AND yourself for winning her over like that. Once you have the securtiy that she is there through force and the storm passes your severe doubt will set in and you will feel like she is there by default, and though she may be ready to be there again you will end up doing your own head in due to doubts for winning her over through force. I see this happen on both ends of the spectrum.

 

Again, think long term not instant gratification.

Edited December 28, 2007 by Tomcat33

[Nguy16]

the nice thing is I have so many options

 

Although I may have sounded like I wanted her back at any and all costs - or that my goal was to "win" her back.. It really is not. I agree that is spineless and unattractive. I presume I have done a bad job of communicating and tomcat is convinced I am a complete wuss. I can only tell you I am not. I know myself and the boundaries I will allow into my life.

 

My goal (and my obligation) is to help her through her fog as much as she will allow - even if it isn't fun. Not unlike like a lighthouse. If she resolves that we have something worth working on (for her), then we go that direction and identify how, why, what... all that. And I totally agree on the NC with OM - we will just have to find a way it can occur while at the same job. I KNOW it has to be her choice to fix, heal, appologize, retribute and set a new path. I am unwilling to accept indecision and flip-flopping and deceit beyond our cooling off period - and she should know full well what she needs by that time.

 

Our cooling off period of 2 weeks is good for both of us and puts some distance from OM. (it is not that he is on vacation the entire time in another country - that is a misnomer). I am more than happy for her to have her space away from everything to think about her actions. Telling someone, here are my demands and you have 24 hours while they are unsure of their personal emotional assets and liabilities, is not a good negotiation tactic - It will cause someone to make an uninformed decision. (I speak from professional experience here, seriously).

 

At this point she doesn't have answers, only unsure of what to do. By backing off and letting her think about the ramifications - and the ability to do it without being influenced by him is great. Also, at this stage, us being around each other - we would just end up fighting which would not produce a positive result.

 

All this plus, I am not contacting her - or trying to influence or convince. If it doesn't come from her - it would be a temporary and meaningless achievement. That would in the long run be even worse.

 

Yes absolutely, she has to decide if she wants to fix it. She has to meet me MORE than half way (though I believe a marriage is not 50/50 but rather 100/100 AND no one should really be keeping score in a true loving and giving environment)

 

Even though she has been a *****, I am holding my head high and allowing an environment to exist for her to re-assess and re-commit. I am also creating my environment so that I can begin some healing without having to resort to anger as my sole communication skill. The nice thing for them in the past was, they didn't have to decide - just have fun. Well decision time has come for all 3 (and maybe the OM SO).

[michaelk]

He has to flip the script on her. "Your words and actions are both telling me that I'm not the one for you. I agree - let's separate. I don't want to be with a woman who isn't interested in me or our marriage and who cheats behind my back. Clearly, you aren't the one for me either."

That's what I'm sayin'!

It's not what I'm sayin'.

 

You have to weave this into it at the same time:

 

He needs to sit her down and assure her that he loves her and wants to work things out but under his terms, she needs to break off complete contact with her OM and needs to show the OP she is willing to do what it takes to recover the marriage, they need to figure out what that is.

 

Saying 'clearly you're not the one for me' is hard to reconcile with 'I love you and want to work things out'. Which is it? Fully resolved to leave her? Or still loving and wanting to work on it?

 

I vote for the latter, but then again I've never been one for playing chicken.

[Tomcat33]

Our cooling off period of 2 weeks is good for both of us and puts some distance from OM. (it is not that he is on vacation the entire time in another country - that is a misnomer). I am more than happy for her to have her space away from everything to think about her actions. Telling someone, here are my demands and you have 24 hours while they are unsure of their personal emotional assets and liabilities, is not a good negotiation tactic - It will cause someone to make an uninformed decision. (I speak from professional experience here, seriously).

 

 

Interesting because that is what you hoped to achieve from her by exposing the affair to the g/f of the OM.

 

At this point she doesn't have answers, only unsure of what to do. By backing off and letting her think about the ramifications - and the ability to do it without being influenced by him is great. Also, at this stage, us being around each other - we would just end up fighting which would not produce a positive result.

 

 

And you trust they are no longer in contact?

[Tomcat33]

It's not what I'm sayin'.

 

 

well good for you Micahel, it WAS what I was saying so why are you countering what I was saying with your thought. That was my thought which coincided with Norajanes is all I was pointing out.

 

 

 

Saying 'clearly you're not the one for me' is hard to reconcile with 'I love you and want to work things out'. Which is it? Fully resolved to leave her? Or still loving and wanting to work on it?

 

I vote for the latter, but then again I've never been one for playing chicken.

 

 

Well clearly for Nguy the fact she said "you are not the one for me" is no deterent, again are we advicing with our own agenda in mind or his? He doesn't seem to mind hearing that phrase so we advice working with that in mind.

 

Or did I misunderstand your point?