Author cj1988 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Posted December 20, 2007 Yes Lizzie it is not only amazing, but sickening They all have the CLINTON syndrome called stupidity.....h--- I believe kissing is cheating, very intimate thing !
Scrivdog Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 I don't believe there is such a thing as a EA that lasts more than a month TOPS. A guy, unless he's a total milqueoast, will have sex with the OW or stop with the BS by then. Men don't get a whole lot of satisfaction out of a purely EA.
feelingtorn Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 But as you said you KNEW about them before you married him, so why go back on your word now? Just because someone has different even better qualities than your S, does not give you the right to cheat and justify it.....my H had a lot of qualitites and still does that get on my LAST nerve, BUT I would never cheat on him if I see someone with better. I have met a lot of men that have more money, better sense of humour, better dresser, better looking even, BUT I chose to be faithful and ONLY love the one I SWORE to love for better for worse, he did not ! I was the one that everyone told for years, YOU CAN DO BETTER, I said " Whatever, I love him" so, as you see it does not matter who has better qualities in the end....cheaters are selfish PERIOD, TERRIBLE quality to have ! I never thought I would cheat either. I used to despise cheaters. I used to say the same words. I was trying to explain what happened to me. The affair high totally blined me and killed all my moral senses. I am back to my oldself again and regretting the poor choice that I made.
Mustang Sally Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 I don't believe there is such a thing as a EA that lasts more than a month TOPS. A guy, unless he's a total milqueoast, will have sex with the OW or stop with the BS by then. Men don't get a whole lot of satisfaction out of a purely EA. I appreciate what you are saying, Scriv. But then how do you explain all of the examples here of the contrary? Like AnswerPlease's situation, as one that readily comes to mind. There are others, for sure.... These guys just had no balls? Or are they living in fantasy-land, thinking that what they are doing is not cheating because there is no physical line-crossing?
Cobra_X30 Posted December 20, 2007 Posted December 20, 2007 I appreciate what you are saying, Scriv. But then how do you explain all of the examples here of the contrary? Like AnswerPlease's situation, as one that readily comes to mind. There are others, for sure.... These guys just had no balls? Or are they living in fantasy-land, thinking that what they are doing is not cheating because there is no physical line-crossing? No, the action is a physical expression of the emotion. Some guys need the underlying emotion more than the physical expression! Therefore... the choice has nothing to do with his ability to take action.
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 I guess my big question and I'll try not to offend those in Sleepless' and your friend's position.... I have years of experience with infidelity, research, some counseling, reading, and inter-personal sharing with others. Hell, I even once wrote a book on the subject. I have asked it before, and lots of tap-dancing, but noone has ever actually faced the million dollar question: Why is it that folks who have affairs only realize they are "out-of-love" with their spouse after they begin an affair? I have only seen a couple of times out of thousands "I went looking for an affair because i knew he/she wasn't right for me." The vast majority are "I didn't mean for it to happen..." I have my theories, and have tried to express a couple of them in this thread, but they are far more complex than the intellectual little answers we all try to give. At the end of the day, we make choices, and live with the results. -Dazed Dazed, I did not fall into this EA and then realize I no longer loved my husband. I allowed myself to get involved in this EA because I no longer felt love or loved for that matter. It gave me pleasure, it fulfilled a need that has not been fulfilled in a long time and frankly it kept me from feeling so lonely. I NEEDED it!! Just like air, and food. I needed it. My story is on the thread Internet Emotional Affair in this sub-forum. It's too long to go into here. I can only speak for myself, but happy fulfilled people for the most part do not let themselves get sucked into any kind of affair, or go seeking one if they are getting what they need from their partners, emotional as well as physical. I almost think the emotional is even more important. People need closeness and intimacy in their lives, to feel connected is a basic need and I am not talking sexually although that is a part to be sure, but only a part, not the whole equation. Of course the complexity of different personality types can make that a very tall order and one that requires a lot of work and introspective thinking. I may be getting off track here, but I think there is culpability on both sides in that if there is emotional intimacy in a marriage, then I cannot believe that the one who has been cheated on is totally blind sighted to the unrest in their spouse. I think on some level people know when their spouse is nearing a point when adultery becomes a real possibility in a relationship. I'm probably going to be drawn and quartered for that statement, but I believe it to be true. I will admit that my opinion may be colored by the fact that I am an emotional "intuitive" thinker, but again I think people who are close would certainly have some red flags that things were not as they should be. So we are back to the personal responsibility thing on both sides of the fence. Just my opinion, and if I knew so much I probably wouldn't be here right now. LOL
Mustang Sally Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 Dazed, I think there is culpability on both sides in that if there is emotional intimacy in a marriage, then I cannot believe that the one who has been cheated on is totally blind sighted to the unrest in their spouse. I think on some level people know when their spouse is nearing a point when adultery becomes a real possibility in a relationship. I'm probably going to be drawn and quartered for that statement, but I believe it to be true. I will admit that my opinion may be colored by the fact that I am an emotional "intuitive" thinker, but again I think people who are close would certainly have some red flags that things were not as they should be. So we are back to the personal responsibility thing on both sides of the fence. Just my opinion, and if I knew so much I probably wouldn't be here right now. LOL No doubt, honey. Never underestimate the extreme power of D.E.N.I.A.L., however (it ain't just a river in Egypt, you know). Hell. I've seen it run rampant here on LS in some BS's even years after their SO went wayward... Just sayin.
LakesideDream Posted December 21, 2007 Posted December 21, 2007 I haven't read the whole thread, however it's logical to assume that the majority of Physical Affairs have an emotional component. Exceptions are booty call affairs.. without an emotional connection. I have a hard time imagining that they are that numerous.
Planofool Posted December 23, 2007 Posted December 23, 2007 Okay, here is the confusion for me. At the time my wife was involved in her EA we were going out to dinner, hugging alot, having great and frequent sex and things seemed great. If you asked me nothing was wrong, nothing was missing we were clicking on all cylinders. She has said she started talking to him as a form of revenge for something she felt I did that was dgrading to her and it blossomed from there. But that doesn't explain how great things were between us. She has said that she wants things to back to these times when we were happy and getting along so good. I told her those times only remind me of the affair. The emotion was being driven by her phone conversations with him in my opinion. Where did I go wrong?
Chrome Barracuda Posted December 24, 2007 Posted December 24, 2007 All I know is, if I have enough inside to forgive her and stay with her and not feel like it's an emasculation of my manhood and my family and my pride then we could make it better than ever. But if she's a serial cheater or she has other motives. Why stay? The person that cheated has to give you an incentive on why to stay and dont say for the kids. Because if you show children that that's how a marriage is you aint giving them the right example. One time discretion is something but more pain upon pain is enough for me to throw it away and no amount of crying or begging or pleading will force me to come back. Hey Plain, Focus on your recovery by yourself why are you still talking to her about things? let her come to you.
Planofool Posted December 24, 2007 Posted December 24, 2007 In my case if I wait for her to talk about it........it won't happen. She will now talk more about her past but I have to bring the affair into the conversation. I understand it isn't easy for her to talk about it. I also understand our relationship revolves around her more than I realized. There are alot of things that have surfaced because of the EA that may not have if it were a PA.
Frances Posted December 24, 2007 Posted December 24, 2007 In my case if I wait for her to talk about it........it won't happen. She will now talk more about her past but I have to bring the affair into the conversation. I understand it isn't easy for her to talk about it. I also understand our relationship revolves around her more than I realized. There are alot of things that have surfaced because of the EA that may not have if it were a PA. Of course they do not want to talk about it, they were cheating and do not want to admit it. In a way by talking to their spouse about it makes it real and their's was a fantasy world with the other person. Do you ever think you do not know this person you have been married to for years? I often wonder if someone has taken over his body because he is certainly not the person I thought he was.
Planofool Posted December 24, 2007 Posted December 24, 2007 Oh do I ever......this is deffinately not the girl I thought I married 24 yrs ago. Things have come to light that explain some things and confuse others. She has also confessed some things to me that are quite shocking about her past. Her Father had some cheating tendancies that I would have never dreamed would have crept into my wifes being. She is more like her Father in alot of ways and most of them aren't good.
LifesontheUp Posted December 25, 2007 Posted December 25, 2007 Oh do I ever......this is deffinately not the girl I thought I married 24 yrs ago. Things have come to light that explain some things and confuse others. She has also confessed some things to me that are quite shocking about her past. Her Father had some cheating tendancies that I would have never dreamed would have crept into my wifes being. She is more like her Father in alot of ways and most of them aren't good. Yeah I can understand that. My ex's father cheated on his mother and he disowned his dad.........he was disgusted by what his dad did, he was 19 at the time, there was a lot of aggro and he never spoke to his dad again. Then 20 years later, after being with me for 18 and married 12, my xH had an affair. He behaved exactly like his dad had previously, the one he detested and hated with a vengeance for cheating on his mum I think any affair is hard to get over whether emotional or physical. However, I think it depends on the type of person you are as to whether you would find an emotional one more difficult to get over than a physical or vice versa. Also the length of time probably has a big impact. Just my opinion.
Chrome Barracuda Posted December 25, 2007 Posted December 25, 2007 Oh do I ever......this is deffinately not the girl I thought I married 24 yrs ago. Things have come to light that explain some things and confuse others. She has also confessed some things to me that are quite shocking about her past. Her Father had some cheating tendancies that I would have never dreamed would have crept into my wifes being. She is more like her Father in alot of ways and most of them aren't good. So in essence she has told the truth??? What happened? I means what happens now. Where do you go from here? Do you reconsile or divorce. Is the issues bigger than you to fix, does she have the fortitude to fix them herself? Does she even want to come back? Or do you just want out, is the pain to much that you would rather start over with someone else?
Planofool Posted December 25, 2007 Posted December 25, 2007 Some truths have been told, other things have been skipped around or swept under the carpet. It is like the dripping faucet, bits of truth keep dripping out over time. As of right now.....I wouldn't say we are moving forward. I would say I am merely coping with things. It is hard to explain but, with her it is like it never happened. Some things are taking place, even yesterday, that make me think something is going on again. See that's what makes an EA so hard to deal with. During the affair anytime she got a chance to get away from me she was on the phone with him. If it would have been a PA she would have had to travel 1200 miles to hook up with him. Every free moment was spent on the phone with him. That is alot of emotional energy being drained from our marriage. In the past he lived closer to us and begged in every letter he wrote her to get together for a day, night or a weekend. From everything I read that never happened. But they still stayed in contact for 26 yrs off and on. She claims it was some kind of security for her in case I ever left her like her Dad did. And somehow she ties this all together to her first true love and husband.
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 26, 2007 Posted December 26, 2007 Of course they do not want to talk about it, they were cheating and do not want to admit it. In a way by talking to their spouse about it makes it real and their's was a fantasy world with the other person. Do you ever think you do not know this person you have been married to for years? I often wonder if someone has taken over his body because he is certainly not the person I thought he was. Frances, we are all different. I had an EA and confessed to my husband. In my case I wanted to talk about it, I needed to talk about it, because I wanted to find an answer for myself, for him, and for our marriage. The EA was a wake-up call that needed to be addressed by both of us. Things take on a life of their own and I think by not talking you continue to give it "energy". In his case he really did not want to hear about it and asked for no further details than I supplied to him. He wasn't even "MAD", if you can believe that. But it did lead to some very positive changes and a plan to prevent us from ever getting to that point again. I am amazed that I did talk about it because I wasn't going to, but I just felt compelled to do so, because I felt it would be productive. Having said all of that, I don't think that applied in every case, there are some times when it is better not to confess. But is it's an ongoing problem born out of need and dysfunction then I think it needs to be talked about. Just my opinion!!
michaelk Posted December 26, 2007 Posted December 26, 2007 Why is it that folks who have affairs only realize they are "out-of-love" with their spouse after they begin an affair? It isn't. I knew I was out of love with my W LONG before having the affair. I was profoundly unhappy. But I figured that with two small children in tow, I didn't have the luxury of saying "This isn't working anymore - I quit." So I went out looking for what was missing in my life. As they say, "Watch out what you wish for, because you just might get it." and I did.
michaelk Posted December 26, 2007 Posted December 26, 2007 The worst thing you could ever do to another human espeically sonmeone you supposedly LOVED so much at one time. Love is NOT a light switch you can turn on and off, it is a constant choice of Good, respectful behavior ! I respect your strong feelings about cheating, but it is by far not the worst thing you could do. I think someone who beats their wife, subjects her to long-term emotional abuse, or molests her children is doing much worse than having an affair. And let's not forget murder. Definitely worse. I also have to take issue with your definition of love. If it's merely a "constant choice of Good, respectful behavior", then how does marital love differ from love of a good friend or family member? There are emotional and sexual components to it, and these are not things you can simply choose to have. Either you do or you don't.
Author cj1988 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Posted December 27, 2007 Hi Michael, you are correct. The only difference as I have said before between being IN LOVE and loving someone is the physical attraction. So, when someone tells you they are no longer IN LOVE with you all they are saying is that I am not sexually and or physically attracted to you anymore. The sad part is I was beat by my son's father, cheated on and mentally and emotionally abused, BUT that was far less of a pain than with my H this time. I think that was because I actually was in love with my H this time. I married young the first time and quickly. This time I waited 11 years (lived with him all that time) to marry and then it went to S--- ! It seems like as soon as he FINALLY realized I was his, he became an idiot. We have and will never be the same again. I know I will NEVER marry again as long as I live !
michaelk Posted December 27, 2007 Posted December 27, 2007 Hi Michael, you are correct. The only difference as I have said before between being IN LOVE and loving someone is the physical attraction. So, when someone tells you they are no longer IN LOVE with you all they are saying is that I am not sexually and or physically attracted to you anymore. So once you've reached that point, then your feelings for your partner become like those for any close friend or family member? And this is how it's supposed to be? I ask because I truly find this 'love' vs. 'in love' thing confusing. Everybody uses the words, but no one ever defines them. The sad part is I was beat by my son's father, cheated on and mentally and emotionally abused, BUT that was far less of a pain than with my H this time. I think that was because I actually was in love with my H this time. I married young the first time and quickly. This time I waited 11 years (lived with him all that time) to marry and then it went to S--- ! It seems like as soon as he FINALLY realized I was his, he became an idiot. We have and will never be the same again. I know I will NEVER marry again as long as I live !I'm very sorry to hear that you were abused. I'm sure the reason you were hurt more by your H than your ex was your feelings for your H. If you don't open yourself to someone, they can only do so much emotional harm. But if you love them enough to be truly open you become vulnerable and any betrayal will hurt that much more. So I don't think comparing your ex's abuse with your H's cheating is really apples-to-apples from your perspective, because you had different feelings for each of them. Looking at it from the outside, I still think that violence against a loved one is worse than an affair.
Author cj1988 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Posted December 27, 2007 Yes, it is like someone you love in a family or a friend when you fall out of love. I know from experience, I have been on both sides. When my H told me last February that he loved me very much, but was no longer in love with me, I knew what he meant. He no longer wanted to sleep with me, but cared for my well being as a person. His passion and lust so to speak for me were gone. I still believe he feels the same now, but is in denial. When you are in love with someone you are sexually attracted to them and do want to make love to them, kiss them etc.....when you fall out you do not want nor require that kind of intimacy anymore. I am not saying you have to want them 24/7, I am referring to the big picture. You still want them in a sexual way, not just a friendly way. Funny how all that works, but we are complex animals!
michaelk Posted December 27, 2007 Posted December 27, 2007 Okay. So if this is how its supposed to work, then what's the proper thing to do when you reach that realization? Do you stay with your spouse because you've built a life together, even though there is no attraction, essentially giving up passion in exchange for another brother/sister figure in your life? Or do you seek passion with someone new who you do find attractive, knowing that it will hurt the spouse you love and leave behind?
Author cj1988 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Posted December 27, 2007 In my case I am trying to get my H to move on for him and me.....I do not think a marriage can survive without intimacy/sex. For example, my brother is married for the kids.....he loves his W and she loves him, BUT they do not have sex.....she wants it and gets it esle where and he does not care...that is BS and goes against marriage. In my case, I believe my H loves me and he was desperately in love with me for many years, but things are really different now. He wants to live together as we are now, less passion (ALOT) less sex (ALOT) and pretty much just live. He does not really spend time with me and when he does I can tell he does not want to be intimate like he was forever. I had to kiss/touch and initiate sex for the last year. It is like he is a shell in a way and I am NOT happy with this at all. I like love and passion etc....basically he is with me because he is content and comfortable, I am not and he does not care. He is nothing like he was before and tells me we will never be that way.....If you read the thread by LONELYANDTIRED, that is my H to a "T". He was so sweet and loving for years, now nothing or almost nothing. Hell the times we did make love in the last 6 months he was drinking and it was FUN sex, not making love anymore. I liked it, but it was not him......he was always sweet and passionate in bed, now it is spanking and dirty so to speak....I am ok with that if you are married, BUT the change has freaked me out. I could feel how much he loved me before when he would hold me, now it is just SEX. Of course he said I am crazy and if it not my way I am not happy (referring to everything in our marriage, not just sex) He hangs out after work instead of coming home and when I vocalize my concern about that, then he gets pissed and said "You are not in control and you cannot stand it" Instead of realizing I RUSHED home everyday to see him for him to stroll in when he wants, hours later....so you see as much as I asked him to help work on the marriage the more he does not and blames it all on me. Said we would not be where we are now if it were not for you all these years, but you just want me to put you first like you were for YEARS....too bad you had that, I am not doing that again ! That is why I have chose to leave for a while (he said if I do we are over for good) but why would I not....he does not act like he wants this marriage at all, but says he does or he would not be here, but he is not here if you know what I mean. I do not know what else to do......
michaelk Posted December 27, 2007 Posted December 27, 2007 Okay. So if this is how its supposed to work, then what's the proper thing to do when you reach that realization? Do you stay with your spouse because you've built a life together, even though there is no attraction, essentially giving up passion in exchange for another brother/sister figure in your life? Or do you seek passion with someone new who you do find attractive, knowing that it will hurt the spouse you love and leave behind? If anyone's willing to indulge me, I'd like to hear others respond to this question, too.
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