Sleeplesstoo Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Thanks Michael. Maybe it is a question that will never be answered. I am glad you have found maybe not the "perfect" place to be, but a good place in your life. I am hoping to find the same, and we are willing to do the work. I hope that mindset will continue as life and it's problems creep in and this whole EA becomes more of a distant memory. Another thought I have is that the old adage "the grass is always greener" may also play a part in my thoughts. There are no perfect relationships, except of course on the internet. Just kidding!! As Owl said things change as a relationship matures. So there needs to be a degree of realistic expectations as well. I guess in my case, we became so bankrupt in the "connecting" department that I could no longer bear it, but I couldn't leave 20 years behind either. A true conflict!! It's funny, but whenever I read about someone wanting to PM someone else (no offense CJ), I cringe LOL, because my EA was carried out almost exclusively via PM's. At this point PM's scare the hell out of me. Pavlov's dogs I guess. Even to the point of, my computer makes a little popping noise whenever a popup is being blocked. On the site we posted whenever you signed on and you had a PM my computer would make that popping sound. So now when I am surfing the net and I hear that popping noise it actually kind of "freaks" me out, and makes me feel sad. Isn't that crazy!! Thank so much michael and again I am glad you are in a better place. There is hope for me!
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 Funny Sleepless, I only ask that if I think my questions my be to personal to answer for the other person, not me.....I never want to embarass someone or make them feel weird here.......some have PM me and I am glad they did....they wanted to get a womans point of view and it was a bit too personal for them to ask EVERYONE, you know what I mean? I never hit on people here, we are kinda family and unlike my H (LOL, I can make jokes about it now, that is cool) I am not into incest !
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Yes, I was 'in love' with the OW. I think that is part of the 'fix' that made the affair so addictive. It supplied a wonderful feeling I hadn't had in almost 20 years. I haven't seen OW in nearly a year, and I'm no longer in that cycle of 'feeling addiction'. My feelings for my wife have gone from nothing (before the affair) to love (now). I love her as the closest family I have, bar none, and as the mother of my wonderful children. However, I don't know what, if anything, is holding me back from having those 'in love' feelings for her. Owl pointed out that feeling 'in love' is transitory. If that's the case, then I expect I'll never feel that way for my W again, but apparently that's natural and to be expected. Michael, I sometimes wonder if I am just in love with the "feeling" of being in love. I am really an emotionally driven thinker, not an intellectualizer, and I need "emotional love", and I need that sort of "soulmates" thing to be going on in my life. I have actually had periods of "winning" in that I have been successful in shutting down those feelings completely. Unfortunately the side effects are asexuality and a general feeling of being completely dulled out to everything in life. It's not me, so I couldn't live that way forever and of course the core you eventually comes back. When it did I was not prepared for the direction I allowed it to take me. I guess the pengelum swung too far in the other direction. I am sounding pretty "--cked up" to myself right now, so I can imagine how I must be sounding to others. I guess the point being that maybe people like us just have much greater expectations for "being in love" because of our emotional make-up. Maybe that goes back to that book Owl is talking about. You said the sex was better than ever, and I have experienced the same thing. Going from pretty much no sex for 3 years to more sex than I've had in the last 3 years was unexpected to say the least. It's almost as if the "lover" opens those pathways for you again and you transfer it to the spouse. For me I found that a little surprising, but hey, whatever it takes to "get you going again", I guess you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Funny Sleepless, I only ask that if I think my questions my be to personal to answer for the other person, not me.....I never want to embarass someone or make them feel weird here.......some have PM me and I am glad they did....they wanted to get a womans point of view and it was a bit too personal for them to ask EVERYONE, you know what I mean? I never hit on people here, we are kinda family and unlike my H (LOL, I can make jokes about it now, that is cool) I am not into incest ! CJ, LOL:laugh: I wasn't accusing you of anything, really! I was just relating my experience to everyone. Given the subject matter here, it is perfectly understandable. So please don't think I meant anything else by that. It's just ironic because some best intentioned PM's for me turned out to be a very intimate experience. When my cyberlover's PM's crossed the line I could have simply disconnected and that is what I should have done, but didn't for all the reasons I have gone into earlier. Sorry if I offended you.
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 You did not offend me at all I knew what you meant. I like making jokes now, it makes me laugh at me Best medicine ever ! My brother had a cyber A and it about killed his W, now they laugh about it and how retarded he said it was. He to this does not know how he was telling a woman he never met that he loved her....he said it was like I was possesed or something and at the time felt real, untill I was caught then I was embarasses and surprised looking at in a REAL angle.
michaelk Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 I guess the point being that maybe people like us just have much greater expectations for "being in love" because of our emotional make-up. Actually, this really resonates with me and some of the discoveries I've been making in therapy. I came from a family where emotions are rarely expressed, and my mother was not a demonstrative or nurturing person. I've struggled with why this affected me as much as it did, given that lots of people have been raised in similar environments. I used to feel that I simply 'overreacted' to that environment and was 'too sensitive'. My therapist disagrees, though, saying that different people have different emotional needs, and whatever needs I had were simply not being met hence that affected me. You said the sex was better than ever, and I have experienced the same thing. Going from pretty much no sex for 3 years to more sex than I've had in the last 3 years was unexpected to say the least. It's almost as if the "lover" opens those pathways for you again and you transfer it to the spouse. For me I found that a little surprising, but hey, whatever it takes to "get you going again", I guess you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.You're exactly right, though. Being with another person does in fact increase your sexual attraction to your partner. There's even a name for this effect - perhaps someone can remind me what it is? But yours was an EA, right? And still you felt the increased arousal by your husband? Interesting.
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 You did not offend me at all I knew what you meant. I like making jokes now, it makes me laugh at me Best medicine ever ! My brother had a cyber A and it about killed his W, now they laugh about it and how retarded he said it was. He to this does not know how he was telling a woman he never met that he loved her....he said it was like I was possesed or something and at the time felt real, untill I was caught then I was embarasses and surprised looking at in a REAL angle. It's really true we have to sometimes laugh so we don't cry. I hope that I will someday be at the point your brother is where I can laugh as well. Actually today has been a really hard day for me. The addiction thing is striking back and I "need a fix". But I am not going to cave. I used to always preface a lot of things I said to my cyberlover with "I must be completely out of my mind for being involved in this" and I meant it. But it didn't stop me. I am a crazy person and I should invest some money in "therapy" LOL:laugh: I am actually glad I found this place. It has been good therapy for me. You were talking about childhood things leading to some of the problems we have now. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Sometimes it's just a matter of untangling the strings and making sense of all of it. I think posting is very helpful because for me the written word has a lot of impact and it sometimes helps to clarify things.
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 Sleepless you are NOT crazy, trust me. But, mayber you are ready to move on and that is why you cannot stop this addiction. To me A continue when you are not ready or happy to stay in your marriage. Is your marriage getting better or worse. I finally told my H I want out when I realized it was never or we were never going to be what I needed in a marriage. When the respect and love are gone or hanging by a thread it does not take too much more to realize it is over. I am not a cold person, just tired and worn out. I do not sleep well, my H does not either, he is just content living in QUIET hell, I am not. I want love and passion and most of all my best friend back and that man died a while back, he is a shell now ! I truly love him and hope he gets rid of his so called demons ( he has many and has even before me) he can be a great man, just not with me. We treat our dogs better than we treat each other......we say ugly things that make my skin crawl to each other, that is when you know it over. YOu do not treat someone you love like we do.....sad but true. I am no innocent I helped wreck this marriage too.....I wish I could turn the clock back and do a lot of things over again, BUT would he and I survived, something tells me NO. We have been fighting for years everyone was surprised when we decided to tie the knot after of 11 years of crap....but we did ! Now look !
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Posted December 28, 2007 Sleepless this is too FUNNY ! I went to send you a PM to make you laugh and it said you cannot recieve them, it cracked me up LOL !!!!
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Actually, this really resonates with me and some of the discoveries I've been making in therapy. I came from a family where emotions are rarely expressed, and my mother was not a demonstrative or nurturing person. I've struggled with why this affected me as much as it did, given that lots of people have been raised in similar environments. I used to feel that I simply 'overreacted' to that environment and was 'too sensitive'. My therapist disagrees, though, saying that different people have different emotional needs, and whatever needs I had were simply not being met hence that affected me. Michael in my case it was my father I had issues with. No sexual abuse or anything like that. Just manipulation and total dominance. I was always trying to please him and just never could. As I grew up I realized that my mother's entire life was about trying to keep him under control. He is actually still living, but for me he is dead. After my mother died and I had to assume the balancing role in his life I became more and more aware of what I was dealing with and how it affected my life and perceptions. I have basically always been drawn to domineering, controlling men, and often did not realize that what I was getting involved with what was the same type of guy over and over again, he just came in a different package from time to time. My husband is very driven, critical, and a micro-manager and tries to control every aspect of my life. Unfortunately for him, I grew a pair, LOL:eek: and of course that really rocked the apple cart. That was the beginning, followed by the basic shutdown I described, and the rest is history. As far as the sensitive part, I am very sensitive, very emotional, and always have been. What is too sensitive? Who's to say. We just are and it is a part of us and it cannot be controlled. It is a trait we have. You might want to pick up a couple of books, I don't remember the author, but the titles are, "The Highly Sensitive Person" and "The HIghly Sensitive Person in Love". While you may not see yourself in every aspect the books describe, I'm guessing you will see some of yourself there. As far as the sex goes, yes it was only a EA, but it had sexual components. My online lover used to say that talking about sex was almost as good as having it, and he was right, it was. We had a lot of those sorts of conversations, and in many ways they were far more exciting and satisfying than the real thing because they were what you wanted them to be, and so much of it was created in my own mind, and who knows your needs better than you. It actually did help to put me in touch with my own sexuality and what I needed. I can imagine that sounds strange, but true. One of the things this has done is made me more dominant and less of a "pleaser". Of course that might also account for some of the "falling out of love" thing because maybe I am no longer attracted to the same type of person. This is something that began quite awhile before the EA started. I think I deserve to have the things I need from my partner, and I am no longer willing to take just what I am given. It's a whole new dynamic and whether it works or not remains to be seen. So far so good! As far as the relationship with your mother, I have heard that our first love relationships are with our mothers or fathers and they tend to form the way we relate to those that come later in our lives. I can see how that might relate to your relationship with your wife and how maybe the "other woman" gave you the things that your wife and mother did not or could not. Maybe the other woman was "wired" more like you are. I know my cyberguy was very much "wired" like me and that is why we became so intimate so fast.
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 28, 2007 Posted December 28, 2007 Sleepless you are NOT crazy, trust me. But, mayber you are ready to move on and that is why you cannot stop this addiction. To me A continue when you are not ready or happy to stay in your marriage. Is your marriage getting better or worse. I finally told my H I want out when I realized it was never or we were never going to be what I needed in a marriage. When the respect and love are gone or hanging by a thread it does not take too much more to realize it is over. I am not a cold person, just tired and worn out. I do not sleep well, my H does not either, he is just content living in QUIET hell, I am not. I want love and passion and most of all my best friend back and that man died a while back, he is a shell now ! I truly love him and hope he gets rid of his so called demons ( he has many and has even before me) he can be a great man, just not with me. We treat our dogs better than we treat each other......we say ugly things that make my skin crawl to each other, that is when you know it over. YOu do not treat someone you love like we do.....sad but true. I am no innocent I helped wreck this marriage too.....I wish I could turn the clock back and do a lot of things over again, BUT would he and I survived, something tells me NO. We have been fighting for years everyone was surprised when we decided to tie the knot after of 11 years of crap....but we did ! Now look ! CJ to answer your question, I don't think enough time has passed yet to give me the perspective I need to figure those things out. The marriage for now seems to be headed in a better direction. I have to figure out what are realistic expectations for this marriage, and what are not. As I said I'm not ready to ditch 20 years of my life only to later get a new perspective on things and realize that I had made a huge mistake. My husband loves me very much, I just need to fall in love with him again. But love does not come with a steering wheel so I am looking for answers about just how to do that. Who's to say if I moved on that I would not end up right back in the same place with someone else. I have to figure "me" out first and then act accordingly.
Planofool Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 michaelk You're exactly right, though. Being with another person does in fact increase your sexual attraction to your partner. There's even a name for this effect - perhaps someone can remind me what it is? But yours was an EA, right? And still you felt the increased arousal by your husband? Interesting. During my wife's EA, which was over the phone long distance, we had some of the best sex we have had in 26 yrs. I have told her it makes me sick to think of that time because I told her I thought it was driven by their conversations. First she said they never talked about sex then she finally admitted he did but she didn't!!!!!!!!!!! SURE. So are they thinking of their spouse while having sex or the OM/OW?
Author cj1988 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Posted December 31, 2007 Planofool, I can tell you that I do NOT think they are thinking about the S at all when they are sleeping with them.......I believe that YES when they are screwing the S they are thinking of the lover.....that is why people have GREAT sex during an A sometimes. They MIND is some where else. When I had an A many years ago, the only reason I could get through sex with my H was to think and wish I was with the OM....BUT, I did not love my H at all, so it was easy to do that! I also thought is my H thinking of her and my answer is still YES, that is why I do not want him now !
michaelk Posted December 31, 2007 Posted December 31, 2007 During my wife's EA, which was over the phone long distance, we had some of the best sex we have had in 26 yrs. I have told her it makes me sick to think of that time because I told her I thought it was driven by their conversations. First she said they never talked about sex then she finally admitted he did but she didn't!!!!!!!!!!! SURE. So are they thinking of their spouse while having sex or the OM/OW? In most cases, I'm sure they're thinking of the OM/OW. My A spurred my wife and I both to open up and try more things, though, which was beneficial after the A, because we had gotten a kickstart on improving our sex life together. And sex between us continues to be better now than it ever has been.
Author cj1988 Posted December 31, 2007 Author Posted December 31, 2007 just because my M is not working out does not mean it is that for everyone. My H is not trying so that is WHY. It definitely shows it takes two not one to reconcile......I do not care now and that is a shame, not my nature. Oh well, life goes on and I know things will be better soon ! Besides, I think everyone thinks of whatever when they are making love, not always the S even if there was no infidelity. I know I think about whatever turns me on at the moment, not particularly a person, but just sexual things.....
Planofool Posted January 1, 2008 Posted January 1, 2008 You're exactly right, though. Being with another person does in fact increase your sexual attraction to your partner. There's even a name for this effect - perhaps someone can remind me what it is? I call it "TEASER PONY AFFECT"
White Flower Posted January 2, 2008 Posted January 2, 2008 During my wife's EA, which was over the phone long distance, we had some of the best sex we have had in 26 yrs. I have told her it makes me sick to think of that time because I told her I thought it was driven by their conversations. First she said they never talked about sex then she finally admitted he did but she didn't!!!!!!!!!!! SURE. So are they thinking of their spouse while having sex or the OM/OW? When my A was just an EA, I thought of MM all the time during sex. Once it became PA, I just couldn't bare to be with H anymore. I asked for a separation and we live in separate rooms. Now, with MM, my mind is only on him.
Author cj1988 Posted January 3, 2008 Author Posted January 3, 2008 WF, so after it became a PA you did not like making love to your H anymore? How did it make you feel when you did, guilty or sick? I am asking for a reason, not to be ugly. You are helping me.....my H started acting that way, but said it was because I accused him of the A and he no longer felt the same towards me since then.....but the few times we did make love in those terrible months, he would cry like a baby after and would not tell me why.....he even cried during one time.....I think it was guilt and shame or because he could not feel the same now and was hurt. When I asked why, he said it was because I changed it all and he was battling what happened and was very hurt.....I think it was because he broke his vows and felt guilt and shame because he was thinking of her now and did not want to......that it was all screwed up and he was so lost......I guess I will never know. He still has a problem with intimacy now and it has been over a year since D DAY.....he said that I need to give him time to rebuild what I killed in him and to be patient,......he does not talk to the OW at all anymoer and has not for months.....so,that is why I am asking !
Author cj1988 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 So, when do people actually fall out of love with the S? Before or after the affair? They never seem to be able to say or did not say before the A " I am sorry I am not long IN LOVE with you that way" but they sure can after the A, why is that ????? Does it take feeling for someone else to make you realize it was it always there?
michaelk Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 So, when do people actually fall out of love with the S? Before or after the affair? They never seem to be able to say or did not say before the A " I am sorry I am not long IN LOVE with you that way" but they sure can after the A, why is that ????? Does it take feeling for someone else to make you realize it was it always there? I've said this before. I was out of love with my W before my A and clearly knew it. I honestly didn't care whether I hurt her or not. We had drifted that far apart. The fact that I didn't say it before the A came from fear. I didn't want to turn my back on my family and related responsibilities, otherwise I would have said 'it's over'. I couldn't bear the idea of leaving my children with divorced parents, or of being seen as a father/husband who had walked away. Of course, once the A is discovered, you have to deal with all the issues you're trying to avoid anyway, so in the end it was just prolonging the inevitable.
Author cj1988 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 I see....I think that most people that have A finally realize it then....they ignored or were in much denial for years on what they really felt all that time. I believe you can have an EA and it wake you up to just how unhappy you really were or are in the M, what do you think? What I am saying is that many do not have to FALL IN LOVE with another to realize they are not in love anymore with the S......
michaelk Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I see....I think that most people that have A finally realize it then....they ignored or were in much denial for years on what they really felt all that time. I believe you can have an EA and it wake you up to just how unhappy you really were or are in the M, what do you think? What I am saying is that many do not have to FALL IN LOVE with another to realize they are not in love anymore with the S...... Yes, I think an EA can wake you up to just how unhappy you are. That was my OW's experience. And yes, I think that many do not have to fall in love to realize they are no longer in love with their spouse - as I did. Each situation is a little different, no doubt.
Author cj1988 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 Hello Michael, I know what you are saying. I knew I was no longer in love with my H before I met my H now.....I even told him several times that I was very unhappy and was basically looking to move on.....but should have waited until I was divorced......hate that I did it that way !
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