Author cj1988 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 Michael, the thing is you are hurting your S by staying of there is NO passion and love as before. It is like you are trying to do them a favor, but you are not. I would much rather we split and he find someone he can be passionate/loving with again than stay and not have that part. The passion and love are GREAT and no one should settle for less. He was happier and so was I when we were in love, we are not happy now, just settling and I am not like that. That is selfish to do to both ! Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 Let me say he can live this way ( unhappy ) I cannot. I want what we had and it is all or nothing. That is who we were.....when we were happiest we were making love all the time, smiling laughing....hell now he will not even call me during the day or come home, but he wants to live this way because he has invested 13 years in us.....whatever....that is just wrong. We do not have children togther either which makes it more foolish ! He keeps telling how bad I was and still am etc....I said you have to be the biggest fool on the planet or the dumbest to stay with a woman as horrible as you describe to me.....he said maybe I am....I said ok then, let me go..... Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Let me say he can live this way ( unhappy ) I cannot. I want what we had and it is all or nothing. That is who we were.....when we were happiest we were making love all the time, smiling laughing....hell now he will not even call me during the day or come home, but he wants to live this way because he has invested 13 years in us.....whatever....that is just wrong. We do not have children togther either which makes it more foolish ! He keeps telling how bad I was and still am etc....I said you have to be the biggest fool on the planet or the dumbest to stay with a woman as horrible as you describe to me.....he said maybe I am....I said ok then, let me go..... Yes, it does seem that some people are happy living without passion and others have a real need for it. I think you should do what will make you happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 I am not happy, so yes.....I am leaving him ! I love him very much, but he is not the man I married. Link to post Share on other sites
Mustang Sally Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 If anyone's willing to indulge me, I'd like to hear others respond to this question, too. michaelk - I wish I had the one-size-fits-all answer to the question you posed. Hell, I'd settle just for the answer that fits my situation! Unfortunately, that is the exact reason I am here, on LS. Don't have the answer yet... Let me know if you figure it out for you, will you? Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 michaelk - I wish I had the one-size-fits-all answer to the question you posed. Hell, I'd settle just for the answer that fits my situation! Unfortunately, that is the exact reason I am here, on LS. Don't have the answer yet... Let me know if you figure it out for you, will you? *sigh* I suspect this is an unanswerable question, one of those aspects of life that tests us by giving us no clear 'right' way to go. Anyone else willing to chip in here? Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 If anyone's willing to indulge me, I'd like to hear others respond to this question, too. I'll chime in even if I've only skimmed through most of this thread. I've been working on myself through IC and plan on leaving because I do not like having a roommate who thinks he can still control me. He is not even as nice as a sister/brother. MM says his R is very much sister/brother yet cannot leave. We both have similar characters and want to do the least damage but my sitch is much worse than his. At least his "sister" is nice, good-natured, and giving. Pick my brain if I haven't answered your question completely, MK. Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellnoFire Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 For men, it's probably physical. For me, it would be physical as well because I would assume they had both a physical AND emotional attachment. My partner doesn't just have sex with ANYONE. Link to post Share on other sites
MrsHellnoFire Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Well I would say that it is much harder to get over a EA than it is for a PA. With a PA it is just about sex and nothing else. At least that's what it was for me when I cheated. A EA is a very strong emotional connection. One in which makes the wheels in your head start thinking about leaving your actual comfort zone and taking that step towards leaving all the familiarity behind for a new start. So I'd definitely say a EA is very hard. Then again it also depends on the person. All people are different. Yeah, but if the emotions were that strong, why did sex NEVER take place? I just don't buy it unless it's an INTERNET thing which I would take over him having sex with someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Yes, it is like someone you love in a family or a friend when you fall out of love. I know from experience, I have been on both sides. When my H told me last February that he loved me very much, but was no longer in love with me, I knew what he meant. He no longer wanted to sleep with me, but cared for my well being as a person. His passion and lust so to speak for me were gone. I still believe he feels the same now, but is in denial. When you are in love with someone you are sexually attracted to them and do want to make love to them, kiss them etc.....when you fall out you do not want nor require that kind of intimacy anymore. I am not saying you have to want them 24/7, I am referring to the big picture. You still want them in a sexual way, not just a friendly way. Funny how all that works, but we are complex animals! Excellent post, CJ. I hope that you will continue to "evolve" and eventually get to the point to where he is attracted to you once again... but he cannot have you because you have simply grown so far beyond him it would be impossible to go back. Okay. So if this is how its supposed to work, then what's the proper thing to do when you reach that realization? Do you stay with your spouse because you've built a life together, even though there is no attraction, essentially giving up passion in exchange for another brother/sister figure in your life? Or do you seek passion with someone new who you do find attractive, knowing that it will hurt the spouse you love and leave behind? I think this happens a lot in LTM's, and a lot of people choose to "settle" and try to be content with what they have. To me, it would be a death sentence. But each individual weighs it out for themselves, and makes choices they can live with. But I think you already know this, michaelk... Yes, it does seem that some people are happy living without passion and others have a real need for it. I think you should do what will make you happy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Thank you ALL for the comments, I love coming on here and seeing the different sides to life. Openbook, yes I have evolved and he is still the same. It is not only the attraction he lacks towards me it is all intimacy including the daily conversation. As much as I have tried to get US back on track, I have come to realize there is no US to him. Just his hate and resentment towards me and his own selfish thoughts. I will be fine now. I have tried to seperate in a civil manner through long talks in which he disregards as "go read another book" or "the world does not revolve on how you want things" so, I guess I will have to be the bad guy and just hurt him and leave without an explaination. I have tried to get him to open up, it is not happening, he is the most miserable person I know around ME, just me. So, why stay???? I do not understand why he would want to at this point and how he can say he loves me UNCONDITIONALLY and has always been in love with me....his excuse as usual "you killed the man I was, period" ok then f---- leave me you fool ! Link to post Share on other sites
bish Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 In my experience...both are about the same...it really doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, BOTH are cheating and one is just as bad as the other. As far as getting over either one? Not a problem from here on out. Upon discovery of either one...I'm outta there. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya. Link to post Share on other sites
Sleeplesstoo Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Okay. So if this is how its supposed to work, then what's the proper thing to do when you reach that realization? Do you stay with your spouse because you've built a life together, even though there is no attraction, essentially giving up passion in exchange for another brother/sister figure in your life? Or do you seek passion with someone new who you do find attractive, knowing that it will hurt the spouse you love and leave behind? Michael, I will indulge you. You very nicely put what I have been struggling with for awhile now. I have 20 years invested in this marriage to my H. Add to that, he is my "only" family, all of my relatives are dead, I am an only child, and I have no children. So, I am really struggling with that. Oh, BTW, I am the dumba$$ who got involved with the online EA. I have a thread that pretty well explains my situation. I guess that was my "innocent" solution to the question you pose. Only it wasn't so innocent. What I did not know is how destructive and all emcompassing something like that can be. It was the "salve" for the lack of passion and lack of emotional closeness I have had in my marriage for a long time. And because of that it has had one of the strongest emotional pulls on me that I can ever remember in my life. Very weird indeed. I still feel it, and even though he was a "fraud" I still miss him, or maybe I am missing whatever it was he filled up in me. My H and I are working on our marriage, but the jury is still out as to if it is possible to rekindle some passion. If we can't then my choice is exactly as your question poses. If I knew the answer to that one, I would not be here right now. If you know the answer, please share. LOL:) Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 As I told my H this morning, living the way live now compared to the way we were UNTIL his EA, it is like a slow death and I cannot handle it anymore. I would rather it be cut off now and be a fast cut to my heart instead of what we have now.....of course he does not feel the same because he LOVES making me miserable and bringing the past up to cover his flaws....he is the type that has an excuse for everything he does and everyone else is f---- up...... !So, he can kiss my little a--- good bye..... Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Go by the bookstore and pick up a copy of the "The Five Languages of Love". Read chapter #3 which talks about the "different kinds of love". There is a BIG difference between the temporary "in love" feelings at the beginning of a relationship, and the long term love in an established marriage. If all you want are the "in love" feelings...you can expect to be in an out of relationships your whole life...because by nature those feelings ARE transitory...they last on average about 2 years (tho can be longer in the event of an affair). If you think that you're being "short changed" by this somehow...perhaps you might want to learn a little bit about how "love" really works. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Well spoken OWL, I believe you correct. In my case, I just want to know he cares at all......nothing is the same between us, but was for 11 years??? He only changed after what I believe was EA on his part.....so you see I guess mine is a bit different. He is not the same man I married or feel in love with many years ago at all.......he said that man is dead as an excuse to torture me and get away with it.....too bad, he lost ! Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Excellent post, CJ. I hope that you will continue to "evolve" and eventually get to the point to where he is attracted to you once again... but he cannot have you because you have simply grown so far beyond him it would be impossible to go back. So you want him to become attracted to her again, not so that they might rebuild their relationship, but as some sort of revenge? I think this happens a lot in LTM's, and a lot of people choose to "settle" and try to be content with what they have. To me, it would be a death sentence. But each individual weighs it out for themselves, and makes choices they can live with. But I think you already know this, michaelk...I know that each individual makes the choices they can live with. But in terms of specifics, I'm only familiar with how I've dealt with it. So I'm looking for others who've been in that situation and maybe had a different take on it, because I know I can always gain new insights. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Michael can I ask you a question in private? Do you mind if I send you a PM? Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Michael, I will indulge you. You very nicely put what I have been struggling with for awhile now. I have 20 years invested in this marriage to my H. Add to that, he is my "only" family, all of my relatives are dead, I am an only child, and I have no children. So, I am really struggling with that. Oh, BTW, I am the dumba$$ who got involved with the online EA. I have a thread that pretty well explains my situation. I guess that was my "innocent" solution to the question you pose. Only it wasn't so innocent. What I did not know is how destructive and all emcompassing something like that can be. It was the "salve" for the lack of passion and lack of emotional closeness I have had in my marriage for a long time. And because of that it has had one of the strongest emotional pulls on me that I can ever remember in my life. Very weird indeed. I still feel it, and even though he was a "fraud" I still miss him, or maybe I am missing whatever it was he filled up in me. My H and I are working on our marriage, but the jury is still out as to if it is possible to rekindle some passion. If we can't then my choice is exactly as your question poses. If I knew the answer to that one, I would not be here right now. If you know the answer, please share. LOL:) Sleepless, I'm pretty much in the same boat you are, just further down the road (I think). I reached the point of misery in my marriage and struggled for a long time. I was too bound by obligation (kids) to leave and too cowardly to confront my wife with my unhappiness. I stumbled around for a while and eventually engaged in an affair that gave me 'what I needed'. But like you, I didn't realize how strong my feelings would be, or indeed how far I would go. My wife and I have been working on our marriage, and I have been in therapy as well. I am much happier at home now, and although I can't say I've fallen 'in love' with my wife again, I do love her and the kids and we're all doing very much better. She and I are even sharing the best sex we've ever had together! So know that it is possible to bounce back from such a monumental screw-up as an affair. But I've continued to be bothered by the question I posed. No, I don't have the answer. I think, as OpenBook pointed out, the answer depends on each of us individually. And to some extent I think we should do what will make us happy, but what about the people who won't be happy unless they leave and cause unhappiness to their loved ones? Such a dilemma. I wish you the best in rebuilding your marriage and, ultimately, in finding happiness. MK Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Michael can I ask you a question in private? Do you mind if I send you a PM? Sure! Anyone is welcome to message me anytime. Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 You just answered my question.....but here is another, were you in love with the OW and are you still? You say you and your W are having amazing sex BUT you are still not in love with her yet, why not? What is holding you back from that? Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 perhaps you might want to learn a little bit about how "love" really works. That's exactly what I'm trying to do, partly through therapy and partly through interacting with others here and elsewhere. For reasons going all the way back to my childhood, I think something is lacking in my understanding of love and I want to fix that. I'm sure this would make a good thread all by itself! lol Link to post Share on other sites
Author cj1988 Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Mine goes back to child hood as well, that is too weird for me....but I should have known, I guess I was in denial. Had a rough time, but I am a big girl now and need to act like one. I am not sure if I will ever love again the way I loved my H, that was an unhealthy love that was based on looks, lust and pure fun....now I have grown up and he remains the same....13 years not wasted, but down the drain now. I just hate that it is now going to get ugly ( he wants all my material assests, too bad) and that will kill whatever we have left as humans towards each other.....I am too tired to fight, hiring aa lawyer ! Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 You just answered my question.....but here is another, were you in love with the OW and are you still? You say you and your W are having amazing sex BUT you are still not in love with her yet, why not? What is holding you back from that? Yes, I was 'in love' with the OW. I think that is part of the 'fix' that made the affair so addictive. It supplied a wonderful feeling I hadn't had in almost 20 years. I haven't seen OW in nearly a year, and I'm no longer in that cycle of 'feeling addiction'. My feelings for my wife have gone from nothing (before the affair) to love (now). I love her as the closest family I have, bar none, and as the mother of my wonderful children. However, I don't know what, if anything, is holding me back from having those 'in love' feelings for her. Owl pointed out that feeling 'in love' is transitory. If that's the case, then I expect I'll never feel that way for my W again, but apparently that's natural and to be expected. Link to post Share on other sites
michaelk Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Mine goes back to child hood as well, that is too weird for me....but I should have known, I guess I was in denial. Had a rough time, but I am a big girl now and need to act like one. I've been surprised to learn how much of my adult behavior is driven by childhood experiences. I don't think it's as simple as saying 'I'm grown up and need to act like it'. If you don't examine and understand the reasons for your behavior, and work it through, I think you're doomed to continue with negative behaviors. Yet another good topic for a separate thread! We're wandering all over the map here, aren't we? lol Link to post Share on other sites
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