Cheaters, is it harder to get over a EA or just a PA?

[cj1988]

I am just curious. I have a friend (female) that was in an EA (her H is not really the emotional type) but it is now over (her H does not know about it). She made the comment recently that she believed it would have been easier to get over him if it were just for sex, a PA...NOT an EA ! Remember they never slept together, had the chance, but thought that would be CROSSING the line, imagine that crap !

 

That made me start thinking. Is it easier to get over a physical attraction than an emotional connection ONLY, no sex?

 

For those who have been in one or the other, NOT EA and PA together, what is your opinion?

[Sierra Sunrise]

Well I would say that it is much harder to get over a EA than it is for a PA. With a PA it is just about sex and nothing else. At least that's what it was for me when I cheated. A EA is a very strong emotional connection. One in which makes the wheels in your head start thinking about leaving your actual comfort zone and taking that step towards leaving all the familiarity behind for a new start. So I'd definitely say a EA is very hard.

 

Then again it also depends on the person. All people are different.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I truly think it depends on how the bs views things. And how the affair progresses.

 

Both types of affairs are harmful to the marriage and or relationship.

 

I mean if it's an ea with no sex. If she snaps outta it in time and recommits to me. I may be able to forgive her.

 

But if she has sex with him and comes back to me saying I'm sorry and whatnot and it's a mistake. I would spit directly in her damn eye and call her a trifling bitch!

 

Why?

 

She stepped over the line. If it gets to the point of where she's willing to have no respect for me, our relationship and her self and her body, placing herself and me for risk of STD's AIDS or anything else?!!!

 

And she comes back over something saying she didnt know and she was in a fog. I would be infuriated beyond no end. Because cheating is a choice!!!

 

She made the choice to destroy us. She couldnt control her emotions and have loyalty and respect over the man she supposedly love (Me!) So why would I take her back, much less forgive her???

 

Hell no!!!

 

I could forgive her in time but I'm not really gonna be with her anymore, kids or no kids, love or no love. You cross the line. No matter how I feel about that woman, I would do what must be done.

 

Exposure, Seperation, Dark Plan B & GAL.

 

I will move forward.

[bish]

Well I would say that it is much harder to get over a EA than it is for a PA. With a PA it is just about sex and nothing else. At least that's what it was for me when I cheated. A EA is a very strong emotional connection. One in which makes the wheels in your head start thinking about leaving your actual comfort zone and taking that step towards leaving all the familiarity behind for a new start. So I'd definitely say a EA is very hard..

 

and this is why when the betrayed partner finds out, they need to just simply kick them to the curb. Why give a 2nd chance to anyone that has a hard time letting go of the other person?

 

I say let the OP have them...let the cheater be their problem.

[Cobra_X30]

I hear you CB!

 

100%

[cj1988]

Thank you both for your input. I have known her 11 years and have never heard her H tell her he loves her, he is always flirting with other women (she said he is harmless) and I believe she was only in the EA to get some kind of attention. She said she feel for him hard, BUT does not believe in cheating. I tried to tell her that was cheating, they were talking all the time and telling each other they loved one another, but it was going to be there secret. She finally quit when the W of the OM heard something or read something and suspected it was more than just friends.

 

If not, she would still be talking to him. The OM actually just slowly stopped taking her calls or changing the nornal conversation to what it should have been, normal, not about them ! She finally got the hint and stopped calling, but she has not been the same ever since. She has dreams about him and is getting more and more distant to her H. Her H mentioned that she has changed and she said it was just a little depression. So, my advice to her was to give it some time (has been about 4 months of little or NC) and see how she feels.

 

She has to get out of the FOG and move on, he has with his W. She said she is depressed when she looks at her H because she does not really feel guilt or remorse like she thinks she should. She knows loving another man is WRONG, but feels since it was not a PA as well, that she really has nothing to feel bad about at the same time. She is having a hard time deciding as to whether she can fall back in love with her H or not or is it just love for him (together 14 years, no kids together) I do not feel bad for her because she has now set herself up for this, you cannot be IN LOVE with 2 poeple at the same time.

 

Her H has made some changes in the last few months (feels her distance and scares him) but she either does not or cannot see it now, I do not know why. I feel bad for him although he is a butt a lot, because he does love her and is now trying......does the love come back after you have loved another? I do not think so. because she loved her H like that for years, but this was more to her inside. So, I do not think someone can come back around and it be real again.....maybe I am wrong......

[Chrome Barracuda]

I think alot of time and focus they can get it back on track, but they need to get the issues out on the table. The husband has hurt her for a long time for flirting with other women! That's an EA waiting to happen right there!

 

And she has hurt him with the EA.

 

I think they got a shot but they need to turn to each other. Right now!!!

[Dazed1]

Personally;

 

I think love is a conscious choice. Not infatuation, not attraction, not lust, (these are physical) but real love is a choice that people in a relationship have to make on a constant basis.

 

Your friend believes that she has seen the other side and it's better than what she has. In her head, she has re-written reality to some extent. Further, because she has made that decision, has shut herself down from experiencing all that her husband is trying to offer.

 

Absolutely she can get back the love she held for her husband, and it can be even better... but she has to decide that she wants it to be. If she can remove the outside inflences (work, bills, illness, etc) and just truly look at what she loves about her husband and decide that these are great and amazing traits, she can do it, and they can be happy again. The other trick is that her husband has to keep on with the changes he has made to show his love and affection for her. (He can't win her back and then go back to being a lump).

 

If she holds her resentment, and somehow blames him for NOT living up to her image of OM, then they are doomed to fail. She has only the best of OM, while she has all of her experiences w/ her husband to draw from. the fact is, OM gets morning breath, is sometimes cranky, belches and farts, leaves the seat up, forgets the cap from the toothpaste sometimes, and gets the flu. She has probably not seen that side of him, and so in her mind he is so perfect....

 

Anyway, just my .02

 

-Dazed

[SueBee3490]

I truly think it depends on how the bs views things. And how the affair progresses.

 

Both types of affairs are harmful to the marriage and or relationship.

 

I mean if it's an ea with no sex. If she snaps outta it in time and recommits to me. I may be able to forgive her.

 

But if she has sex with him and comes back to me saying I'm sorry and whatnot and it's a mistake. I would spit directly in her damn eye and call her a trifling bitch!

 

Why?

 

She stepped over the line. If it gets to the point of where she's willing to have no respect for me, our relationship and her self and her body, placing herself and me for risk of STD's AIDS or anything else?!!!

 

And she comes back over something saying she didnt know and she was in a fog. I would be infuriated beyond no end. Because cheating is a choice!!!

 

She made the choice to destroy us. She couldnt control her emotions and have loyalty and respect over the man she supposedly love (Me!) So why would I take her back, much less forgive her???

 

Hell no!!!

 

I could forgive her in time but I'm not really gonna be with her anymore, kids or no kids, love or no love. You cross the line. No matter how I feel about that woman, I would do what must be done.

 

Exposure, Seperation, Dark Plan B & GAL.

 

I will move forward.

 

I so agree with this. My H can't understand why I can't get over it because he's not cheating now! He claims to have only cheated (both ea & pa) on me while we dated but thinks I should be so "proud" or "happy" that he would NEVER cheat on me now because we are married but somehow I should just get over the times he cheated behind my back while leading me on (2 1/2 yrs) to believe he was monogamous with me. I was also at risk for AIDS, etc. and it infuriates me to think about it.

 

As far as the original question, I don't know what's worse because an ea would be that emotional connection with the other person, they would share all those intimate talks and possibly dreams with each other. But then again a pa would be you playing that movie of them together (especially if you know what the OM/OW looks like) over and over in your head constantly wondering what they did together, etc. Both are hard to get over.

 

I know I dealt with pa's in my relationship and a few where they were leading up to a pa so I assume it's just in the emotional stage at that point but either one is a deal breaker for me.

[cj1988]

I hope so, but I feel like his so called emotional absence for all these years has been in grained so to speak inside her. She said why could he have been this way BEFORE I feel for someone else. Why did he have to wait until I was no longer in love with him, then she cries. She is so sad because she really wants to feel that way again about him and is trying, but she said it is not the same now, she loves him but mainly the "atrraction" is gone.

 

I suggested a break, but she said he would know something was up for sure because that is so not like her.....(she was the one that loved him to death for years, wanted him sexually etc) now she said it is idle chat and like normal for him, but she does not want him intimately as much and feels empty inside. She did mention that it is not so much the feelings for the OM, but more less the lack Of for her H now that she has felt the extreme bond with the OM it does not compare....that is why she feel she will never be happy with just her H anymore, it is to her far less than what she felt for the other man without sex.....sad, she is living in her own h---! I believe her H will figure it out, she avoids sex now and or does it less, when he gets pushy about it, because he feels something is wrong....

[cj1988]

I am afraid resentment is what she feels right now as well as, maybe I am with the wrong person. She knows that the OM is gone and she is alright with that part, although she misses the closeness she has longed for years now. She has always been the one to walk a straight line, never consider cheating and was shocked when all this went down the way it did. She has been addressing issues over the years with her H, telling him she wanted and needed more sex, respect etc.....NOW he wants to do all that and it basically pissed her off. She has told him even this week that it may be too late for them now, not telling him why (the EA with OM helped move it along, opened her eyes to what she could have with someone) She cries all the time and has trouble sleeping, seems confused and trapped so to speak inside herself, wanting more now that she has had a taste of it. I watch her H now try so hard to be kind and please her, touch/kiss and show her attention that she always wanted...then he will leave the room and she cries and says " I cannot feel it now" to me. I have talked to her for hours and believe she is just in that "FOG" from what she had ( not real) I have told her that and what she has settled for all these years.

 

You take resentment, confusion even anger, mix it all together and you have her inside, not her nature at all. She knows she wants her H, but said the harder he tries, the more she does not feel it ! I do not understand that part at all......this is what she wanted, now she doesnt, get that......

[Dazed1]

I hate to say it, but this not all that uncommon. Most of us know what we want from our partner or spouse, and when we finally start getting it, we resent that we had to wait for it.

 

I'm not going to sit here and make a case for the husband because if he knew about his wife what you have shared w/ us, then things would change drastically yet again.

 

I have learned you have to say "I want...". It's an assertiveness technique that allows you to actually see your own thoughts much more clearly. It's not about demanding, ultimatums, etc. But just because you had to ask for something does not make the obtaining any less enjoyable or meaningful.

 

She has stuck herself in a fantasy world and refuses to see any real truth, and that saddens me. "why couldn't he have done this before...." Because he didn't think the need was real. "No matter how I try i can't feel it..." because she refuses to actually allow herself to feel it. It's all about what they want, and deciding to want what they have....

 

Stepping down from my soapbox now, lol.

 

-Dazed

[Crestfallen_KH]

My ex-husband's EA was worse. The PA that started after we split was definitely painful, but it hurt a lot more to know that some other woman so quickly became my husband's partner, advisor and friend. To be replaced in that way was the worst betrayal for me personally. Imagining him sitting there with her, laughing, sharing and talking like we used to do was worse than any sexual image that popped into my head.

[Cobra_X30]

I hate to say it, but this not all that uncommon. Most of us know what we want from our partner or spouse, and when we finally start getting it, we resent that we had to wait for it.

 

Stepping down from my soapbox now, lol.

 

-Dazed

 

Carrying anger and resentment does two things. I buffers you against emotional injury, and provides a form of satisfaction in punishing.

 

The trick is in showing someone when they need to let go!

 

Sometimes I swear... You and WWIU, and some of the other posters here...

 

I sit at your feet and learn!

[cj1988]

I told her from my experience with my H, that she is chosing to NOT feel what she did before. That she is in another world, but low and behold as in my situation, the minute the H starts to stop, give in and get out, she will regret it. She is causing her own pain and cannot see that right now. As much as I have tried to tell and she listens because she has been there for me, she just cries.

 

She said that she feels like she loves him, but the WANTING feeling is gone. She spent so much time WANTING him that it was all she concentrated on for years. Now, the OM gave her just that, attention, conversation and most of all a feeling that someone loved her unconditionally and she was speical. Although her H is trying to do that now, she cannot see it or accept it. I think it may be her guilt that she claims to not feel and or remorse that keeps her stale and distant now.

 

I have told her to do some soul searhcing and some thinking about what made her fall in love with her H years and what made her fall for the OM. What was the difference, who gave her what and when etc....she thinks that she did not cross a line, but in fact I believe she crossed the worst line, the heart. When it is JUST sexual, it is just that SEX. But, when you fall for someone and love with heart and soul (she felt he was her soulmate) that is far worst to get past. That is why I ask all the cheaters out there that have been through this, which is easier to get past and move on and which really KILLS a marriage, slow death so to speak.

 

She cannot tell him about the EA because it was someone they both know and love (family friend) and the W does not know either. Beginning to end of the EA was about 4 months, but they have known each other for years. It started while planning his W B-day party and it was small conversations here and there. Then more and more conversations and before you know they confessesd what they were feeling after almost 3 months of constant communication. They agreed it could never be physical, but the feelings were there and they found the ONE ! Both felt guilty, but it did not stop them. They both still think it was OK, because it was not a PA, but how can that be, she is not happy, he seems to be fine. I think he led her on and now he is back to nornmal with his W or he says he is...she is kind hearted and very BIG hearted, he acted as if he was and may be, but he was more than ready to go NC, she was not.

 

I do not know what to tell her, I just know she will be lost without her H and cannot see that right now and if she keeps it up as my H will not have a choice !

[cj1988]

I wnt to lunch with her today and she said one more thing that through me off and I have heard it before.....she said when she makes love to her H, she feels like there are 3 of them in her bed.....him physically, her and the OM in her head. I said you have not slept with the OM , she said " I know but he is who is in my head and heat and I cannot switch it off now...and that is why I do not want to sleep with H now" I said you have got to be F---- kidding me, you selfish butthole. She was shocked that I said that, so I explained. You have man yes that is NOT perfect by NO means, but he is who YOU chose to marry for life. Now, you have always told me how much you love your H and how he was the only one that you wanted in bed (she said he is good in bed) but now you avoid him because your P--- is not as wet.....you are a BRAT.

 

She laughed and said I cannot believe you just said that BUT I CANNOT get aroused with just my H anymore, my head is with the other.....I said the other one that may S--- in bed and you may hate, it is a FANTASY you goober.....she laughed again and said, you are right ! So, lets see what she does with that now. I do not believe that someone that was all that and a bag of chips she wanted all the time, does nothing for her now, ONLY BY CHOICE !

[Sleeplesstoo]

I am reading your friend's story and your friend could be me. I have just in the last couple of days ended an EA via the internet, we never actually met. I like your friend got involved in something I would have never believed of myself. Totally out of charater for me. I too have always walked the staight line.

 

I really wonder if with your friend it was not so much a case of being in love with 2 men but more a case of falling out of love with the first thus the involvement with the 2nd.

 

It would not surprise me if your friend was not like me in my marriage, maybe very tolerant, go along to get along, and ignor what you need for a long time because it's easier. Then one day it all bubbles up and you can't ignor it any longer. Maybe that is where your friend is too. She is torn between an investment of many years, a glimpse at how she thinks it can be, and a need to try and stay with it and make it happen in her existing marriage. I don't know, I am asking myself the same questions. My husband is behaving much the same way her's is in that after years of very little attention he has become much more attentive, and I am not really feeling it and wondering if you can ever get those old feelings back.

 

So to answer your question, I think that hands down the EA has the potential to be much more harmful and much harder to get over than the PA. I have never had a PA, but that is my guess, especially for a woman because we are such emotional creatures. I agree with dazed in that what complicates the EA is it is the best of the best. No real life problems just pure, positive, emotion that quickly seeps in and seems to fill up all the things that have been missing. In my case this was especially true because I wasn't even in love with a real person, just a phantom who was half of my making and half of his.

[cj1988]

Sleepless, sorry to here you are in this too. Yes, I believe she really loves her H, but how I can say, I am not her. Maybe she did all these years and it has been too hard of a struggle and now she sees it as what it is, a continuous struggle. She said that is why she is so confused right now. She WANTS so badly to feel what she did for H again, but in fact at this time that may not have been as real as she believed wither.

 

I know in my case, my H had plenty of time to get his EA out of his system (said it was not an EA or PA) over a year now, but he is still like my firend, that is why I know her situation so well. In my case, I finally gave up 2 weeks ago after begging, pleading and wishing and hoping he would feel and act like he use to.....but he waited until the end to start any kind of attention, now it was too late for me. I love him, but I do not want to be with someone that can ignore my needs and wants and treat me like I do not exist for months over an accusation !

 

I believe in my heart that my H was and still may be in love with the OW, but that is NOT why I am leaving, it is because he was not man enough to see what he did was wrong and make it better for US now. My H like Beth has a BIG heart and was crushed by me and now probably her, but I cannot live with the fact he loved another. So, my advice to her is not just what I have read, it is my own life experiences !

[Dazed1]

I guess my big question and I'll try not to offend those in Sleepless' and your friend's position....

 

I have years of experience with infidelity, research, some counseling, reading, and inter-personal sharing with others. Hell, I even once wrote a book on the subject.

 

I have asked it before, and lots of tap-dancing, but noone has ever actually faced the million dollar question:

 

Why is it that folks who have affairs only realize they are "out-of-love" with their spouse after they begin an affair?

 

I have only seen a couple of times out of thousands "I went looking for an affair because i knew he/she wasn't right for me." The vast majority are "I didn't mean for it to happen..."

 

I have my theories, and have tried to express a couple of them in this thread, but they are far more complex than the intellectual little answers we all try to give.

 

At the end of the day, we make choices, and live with the results.

 

-Dazed

[cj1988]

Dazed that is the MILLION dollar question. I believe that most are NOT in love with the S way before it happens and knows it down deep, but chose to live in denial or the "comfort zone" Then someone comes along and sweet talks them, like when you first started dating your S and then WOW I cannot believe it "I AM NOT IN LOVE WITH MY SPOUSE ANYMORE".

 

They knew it all along and the A just put it all into prospective for them and a little too late. That is why I still believe things happen for a reason, good and bad. The sad part is people should be adults and get out first before they move on and save the pain of an A. Splitting up hurts but add infidelity to the mix and it is horrible !

 

I will never CHEAT on anyone EVER ! The worst thing you could ever do to another human espeically sonmeone you supposedly LOVED so much at one time. Love is NOT a light switch you can turn on and off, it is a constant choice of Good, respectful behavior !

[Lizzie60]

for sure.. no emotions are involved...

 

In an EA, it's a totally different ball game... but usually they both go together EPA... (Emotional Physical Affair)

 

In most cases, men can separate PA and EA.. most women can't.. they usually have an EA before it turns PA.. men usually start with a PA and it ends up into a EA or EPA...

[cj1988]

I know what you are saying Lizzie. My H and I started as a PA and ended up in a EPA.....he like my friend is very emotional and gets attached easily. I can see how both could end up in just a EA and be ok with it and think it was not crossing the line.

 

I was listenign to SAVAGE NATION last night and the hour topic was about cheating, it was great. I found out MOST people think that cheating is a MAJOR characte flaw and people look down on cheaters, period. I also sadly found out that MOST think if there is no PHYSICAL act it is not cheating....most of them I am sure have not suffered through an EA.

[feelingtorn]

Dazed, I think for me, OM showed me the qualities my H was lacking. When I chose to marry H, I knew his flaws - nobody is perfect, including myself!!!-, but thought I could live with his flaws and accepted them as part of him.

[Lizzie60]

I have slept with a lot of men.. I don't mind saying it.. LOL and it's surprising how many think that, unless there is 'penetration' it's not even a PA..

 

They felt 'guilty' only after the 'penetration' took place... for a lot of them, a BJ or even masturbation is not a PA especially if it's a ONS. Weird.. but I met quite a few who were thinking that way.

 

So, in their mind, if they have BJ or masturbation, they're not 'cheating'.. amazing isn't it?

[cj1988]

But as you said you KNEW about them before you married him, so why go back on your word now? Just because someone has different even better qualities than your S, does not give you the right to cheat and justify it.....my H had a lot of qualitites and still does that get on my LAST nerve, BUT I would never cheat on him if I see someone with better. I have met a lot of men that have more money, better sense of humour, better dresser, better looking even, BUT I chose to be faithful and ONLY love the one I SWORE to love for better for worse, he did not !

 

I was the one that everyone told for years, YOU CAN DO BETTER, I said " Whatever, I love him" so, as you see it does not matter who has better qualities in the end....cheaters are selfish PERIOD, TERRIBLE quality to have !