Online Emotional Affair

[Sleeplesstoo]

Mr. W and Owl, it's interesting to have a man's perspective on things.

 

Owl, I will take a look at your posts and see where you are coming from here.

 

Mr. W I am feeling we have some real fundimental differences on how we see the world in general. No offense but you seem to have a rather rigid way of looking at life. I do not operate from that perspective, as I said things are not that black and white and this forum is proof of that. Honestly, reading some of the stories here is quite depressing and even dark at times. Having gray areas in life is not as simple as not knowing the difference between right and wrong. We have a very complex legal system that is truly a testament to that fact. We should all be so lucky if life would be so simplistic, but it's not.

 

I guess I will get down and dirty here and tell you the root of my dilemma. I wasn't being funny when I say that I suffer from seperation anxiety. I am an only child from a small family and I am childless myself. I have 1 living relative, my father who I don't have a good relationship with. I am in a marriage that is so sexless there was no sex for what I thought was 1 year but my husband tells me was 3 years. I have been married for 20 years. That is a long investment in time. My husband is basically my only family member. When my mother died 5 years ago I no longer felt achored to this world. I went through a period of weight gain, a lot of weight. I got fat, and I got unattractive. It took me 5 years but with a lot of dieting and exercise I lost the weight and kept it off. My husband was very turned off by me and let me know it, and said a lot of things I just cannot get over. I felt unattractive and unloved and not very sexual as a result. Well as you might imagine, after losing the weight I got a lot of attention from men. I began to feel sexual again, but at that point sleeping with my husband would have felt like sleeping with a total stranger. Reaching the 1 foot across the bed might as well have been 1 million miles. That is how it felt. I couldn't make myself reach. He is not agressive and didn't reach either and told me he was not going to beg. I don't want him to beg, I just want him to ask. One day when I finally did reach he was like a deer caught in the headlights. Without going into details things didn't work out well.

 

So you see, I probably should leave, but I can't, because I can't be totally alone in the world. I know that sounds crazy but it is my greatest fear and I can't get past it. I also can't seem to get past this sexual thing either. Besides the sexual thing there is also the lack of emotional intimacy. I am trying to work on that and I think he is now trying to work on it, but there has been a lot of neglect on both sides and I can tell you the garden is really full of weeds.

 

So in my mind, I am stuck between my fear of being totally alone (remember I have no family) and my needs for sex and emotional intimacy, and trying to resolve my resentment over past issues. Don't get me wrong, it took two of us to get to this point so I am not making him out to be the bad guy. I guess in my eyes his biggest sin was lack of balance in his life. His was all focussed on his business, his hobbies, and then finally our time together. So as I see it, the best answer is to try and make this work. But you cannot will the heart to feel something it does not. Do I love my husband as a person, yes, do I feel and passion or in love feelings for him, no. Can I ever get that back, I doubt it, but I want to try. To get that back offers the best possible outcome for my situation. But I don't think you can will love to return. I am a romantic and loving person and I really need to have those things in my life. I have 3 dogs that I have absolutely kissed the ears off of because for a long time they were my only outlet for physical affection. I know I am pathetic, but this is just kind of pouring out of me and I am speaking from my heart.

 

So, "true confessions" would only be a minor part of it except to say "take that you SOB, you wouldn't give me what I need in spite of me shouting it in your ear, so this is what I did." The by the book answer of course is, I should have just gotten a divorce 10 years ago when this all took seed, but I didn't, so here I am, and frankly I don't know what to do about it. That is why I am here.

[Sleeplesstoo]

MrW and I know each other from another forum, where we often disagree.

 

But he's dead on the money about pretty much everything he's said. He's right about the source of the harm in the marriage, and he's on the money with all the reasons he's given you to take the steps you need to to fix your own situation.

 

The only point I don't agree with him on is the subject of EA's "really" being an affair or not. But that's irrelevent here.

 

Give some thought to what he's suggesting to you. He and his wife have been there.

 

As far as an online emotional affair...so have I. My wife got involved online with a man about three years ago. Our marriage is happily recovered. Do a search for threads started under my name from the Oct 04 timeframe and you'll find my thread here.

Owl,

 

I tried to find your posts but they only go back to '05 under your name. I also tried a couple of key words but no luck. But it sounds like you were on the opposite side of the transaction from me. You were the person who was cheated on. Of course that makes your pespective interesting from my point of view.

[BetrayedMM]

The advice to come clean is coming from that perspective, not a moral stance. It has nothing to do with morals- it is what is necessary to rebuild a broken marriage.

 

 

You didn't like my tone (and yes, I AM bitter), so you rejected my advice. That's ok, it's your choice to make. But, I am telling you from the perspective of someone who has been cheated on- It would make all the difference in the world if my wife would just come clean... There can be no beginning of reconciliation until she finds the courage to take that one minimal step. I'm sure she has all kinds of convoluted rationalization to justify her refusal to be honest, as well as the affair(s) itself... and your posts have given me a peek at what some of that may be about... For instance- I'm sure she's convinced herself that I won't divorce her. She is mistaken- since she refuses to take even the first step towards reconciliation, she has left me with little choice. The holidays are almost over...

 

I can agree that there are grey areas in life- where it's hard to know the right thing to do. This is not one of them.

[Sleeplesstoo]

The advice to come clean is coming from that perspective, not a moral stance. It has nothing to do with morals- it is what is necessary to rebuild a broken marriage.

 

 

You didn't like my tone (and yes, I AM bitter), so you rejected my advice. That's ok, it's your choice to make. But, I am telling you from the perspective of someone who has been cheated on- It would make all the difference in the world if my wife would just come clean... There can be no beginning of reconciliation until she finds the courage to take that one minimal step. I'm sure she has all kinds of convoluted rationalization to justify her refusal to be honest, as well as the affair(s) itself... and your posts have given me a peek at what some of that may be about... For instance- I'm sure she's convinced herself that I won't divorce her. She is mistaken- since she refuses to take even the first step towards reconciliation, she has left me with little choice. The holidays are almost over...

 

I can agree that there are grey areas in life- where it's hard to know the right thing to do. This is not one of them.

 

I am sorry that you are so bitter, but I understand. As far as your tone goes, I have always been sensitive to that and I try to be empathetic with people. I hope that you and your wife have not gotten so far down that road that you have reached a point of "no return" because if that is what you wanted I'm guessing you would have already left by now.

 

Well this is going to surprise you and the others who gave much the same advise as you did, I actually did come clean this week-end. I confessed. I did not do it out of guilt (I'm sorry I just don't feel guilty at this point) but I did do it because after mulling the whole situation over for a few days and settling in I decided that it would be productive and needed to be done. My EA was a wake up call for me and it needed to be a wake up call for DH as well. So if anything good can ever come out of something like this then I guess it has.

 

I told him what I did was wrong and I really had "no business" talking to a man on line and letting things get to the point that they did. I told him I was "lonely" and this online man was fullfilling the needs that he (my husband) had ignorred, and that we were getting so far down the road that if we did not do something "now" then we could live in a loveless marriage for the rest of our lives or we could work on it and enjoy what we have together "now".

 

Surprisingly, he was very uninterested in any of the details, and asked for no other information then what I gave him, and was "NOT MAD". He agreed with everything I said, and that he had let our marriage become last to everything else that goes on in his life.

 

So we had a wonderful holiday filled with a lot of closeness, talking, and good sex (which had been missing for the last 3 years). We talked a lot about our problems and the things that brought us to this point in our marriage. We both agreed that the "grass is not greener" on the other side of the fence, and that what we have is worth saving. What was so great is that we really talked and NOT argued and fought and shouted over one another. That is very unusual for my husband. I think he knew that I was truly at the end of my rope and since we have never had issues like this one before that there were things that were in need of immediate attention. I also think that my husband is probably one of those people who do not consider an EA as truly cheating, so he can justify the situation somewhat in his mind. I have to say that until this experience I never even heard the term "emotinal affair" and would not have thought of it as cheating. But after being in one, I have to say that I think in many ways it is "more damaging" and much harder to let go of, and probably a "worse cheat" than a PA. I say that because for many, sexual satisfaction and encounters are relatively fleeting, but when you give you heart to someone that is lasting, and in some cases for a lifetime. In some ways I am lucky because the person I thought I was in love with does not really exist. However, I think my cyberguy was moving in for the old "bait and switch" thing and was actually after a physical affair in the near future. And who knows, maybe by that time I would have been so hopelessly in love that I would have gone for it. STUPID!!

 

Betrayed, I am sure you have a thread somewhere, but I am not fully acquinted with your situation. Is it possible to start a dialog with your wife about the "affair" (I don't know if it was PA or EA) without the point being to extract a confession?

 

I know you need to hear her say the words but sometimes there is such a thing as coming in the back door. What you really need to know is "why" she had the affair. What was going on between you both that caused her to look elsewhere for attention? Having said that I do believe there are some who will never be monogomous under any circumstances and if she is one of those, then you need to end it now. However, if she is not, then you need to get to the bottom of why it happened. Things do not happen without a reason and a motivation. For a woman (at least for me) it is usually not feeling loved, not feeling "heard", feeling taken for granted, and all of those add up to needing some attention and fullfillment even if it's from another man. We have psychological needs that "must" be fulfilled and they are the things that you fullfilled in us when we decided to "marry" you.

 

Betrayed, I am not being hard on you in any way, because I don't know your situation, I am just trying to throw some things out for you to think about before you "pull the trigger" on the D. It doesn't sound like that is what you want. You sound frankly devastated by the whole thing. I guess I'm just trying to say ( and you may have done this already) approach your wife with a "what's wrong and how can we fix it attitude" rather than a "you must confess" mindset. I really think that if you can get a soft dialog going, she just might confess at some point. You have to communicate, and you have to start somewhere. Laying blame is not a good place to start, because I can tell you if she was fooling around, she probably feels entitled because 'A' she is so mad at you and has been mad for such a long time she can't think straight, and 'B' she has been so unfulfilled for so long, she thinks nothing more of what she is doing than if she had not eaten for a week and happened on a big meal. I know that sounds crazy, but that is how some of us think. It is called resentment and it is a wholly destructive emotion. If she if finally getting something she has needed for a long time, she does not want to stop, because at that point it is like a drug that soothes some long standing pain. What I have said may be complete and total BS and does not apply to you at all, but there was something that attracted you to my thread so I'm thinking you are seeing some similarities somewhere.

 

As for my DH and me, we have not only mended some fences, but we are in the process of planning a day every week that will be "our time" and only our time. My husband said he thought it was important to plan carefully, because if we did not fulfill our promise to make that time, it would put us in a worse place than we are right now.

 

I am lucky in that I think my situation is going to have a happy ending, but it is going to take work not to slip back to our former situation.

 

Betrayed, please think about some of the things that I have said, and while they may not totally apply to you and your situation, I hope that at least one thing will be of some help to you. Good luck to you and God Bless!

[Owl]

Went and dug this up, for your reading pleasure.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/

[Sleeplesstoo]

Went and dug this up, for your reading pleasure.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/

Hi Owl,

 

I must say that was very interesting reading and interesting in the way it unfolded over time. One thing I have noticed from reading these threads, is that these online EA's are not coming from the "kids" as one might think , but from those of us who have been married a long time. Interesting. Maybe a troublesome part of midlife crisis. I don't know.

 

The greatest contrast that I can see between your story and mine is the depth of "hurt" that you are feeling. Of course in my case it never got as far as actually packing my bags and leaving for a "new life" with what really is a total stranger. I was surprised at the pain you felt with each and every anniversary of the event. It seems excessive to me until I read your post further into the thread where you talked about coming home and your wife spending the night at "some single guy's" place because she fell asleep. I have to think that even though you never consciously thought about that time over the years that it was not in the back of your mind and maybe magnifying the more recent events because of the implication that this was not the first time. Later on I see that both you and your wife went back to the "scene of the crime" with the gaming site. I don't know about your type of gaming, but I have to ask, is that the only site that you can enjoy that type of gaming on? If I were you or her I would probably never want to revisit that site again. Believe me when I say what happened with me really took the "shine" off of my site and I will probably not return to participate there again. It really leaves me with a bad feeling, kind of like not wanting to drive by the "site of a bad accident" you witnessed in the past. As far as not knowing when you are "crossing the line" I have a problem with that too. Believe me, I knew when I was crossing the line because I wanted and needed what was being offered. So I'm not buying that for a minute.

 

I have never had an addictive personality in my life, no drugs, booze, cigarettes, nothing, but I was totally addicted to my cyberlover. He had such a hold on me I can't even begin to explain. Owl, believe me when I tell you that no man can compete with the "cyberlover". I guess in a strange sort of way it is akin to emotional masturbation in that the feedback is almost perfect. It is a living fantasy in which in some ways you get to play both parts. Of course he is perfect because much of him is an invention of your own mind. He is your soulmate because he knows all of your wants and needs. He is the best of the best because he embodies only the romantic cerebral side of a relationship with none of life's real problems and cues to get in the way. You know everything is always better in our minds. So having said that, Owl, you have got to let go. No one and I mean no one can ever compete with that. No real totally flesh and blood person can ever give you what the keyboard phantam can give you, because a lot of it is really what you are giving to yourself and who knows what you need better than you. It is a dangerous phenomenon that is so new that I don't think

unless you have been there you can even begin to understand the implications. I'm not being dramatic here. Just think back to the kind of withdrawal your wife went through. I am going through it now and sometimes it grabs me just like "grief" from the loss of a loved one, and my guy really wasn't even real in that he made up his circumstances and life. But I still miss the communication that we had and I miss the closeness. In many ways I am probably really missing "talking to myself". While I have not exprienced a PA I think in many ways this is much harder to shake because it is not real in so many ways whereas the PA is, and subject to all the same problems that any "real" relationship faces. The "cyber affair" is so seductive that you cannot even imagine. It usually begins with an anonominity factor (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) and that opens Pandora's box. You feel free to talk about most anything and do, and that is exactly how intimacy is built in the real world, except without the restraints of the real world intimacy is built much fast and much stronger and there is where the danger lies. We as humans (especially women) love to feel connected, and trust me when I say there is no connection like it.

 

So Owl, there is a pretty much complete "no holds barred" description if the EA Cyber Affair from a woman who has had one, and since your wife is a woman she may have felt all of the things I have described to you. Is it right, absolutely not. But knowledge is power and I'm hoping that seeing the other side through the eyes of a woman who has been there, will help you to heal.

 

In a nutshell, it's not real life, it's more like a fantasy, and of course you could not compete with that, no matter what. So the biggest question you have is "why" she felt compelled to begin that relationship and I'm sure that is being addressed in counciling.

 

I hope I have helped you to gain some understanding and maybe some perspective that will free you from this "hold" this thing seems to have on you. I hope that soon you will be able to move on.

[Owl]

No problems, my friend.

 

Actually, there's been pretty much nothing but good for us over the last year. Back when I'd started to have doubts was about a year ago...but things have pretty well turned around since then, and we've done well since.

 

I'd come to many of the same conclusions you have about the nature of online emotional affairs.

 

An having helped nurse my wife through her withdrawl and recovery...and then managing my OWN recovery as well as that of our marriage...I've got a decent handle now on how affairs in general work, and have been trying to help others learn how to cope and recover from them.

 

Many people don't truly 'get' the whole online affair thing...and because of that, its pretty insiduous. Its an easy trap to fall into, because its one you're never taught how to gaurd against.

 

On the online gaming thing...we'd quit gaming for a good while. When we did start back up, it was with a whole new set of rules for ourselves.

 

And eventually, we did move to an entirely different form of gaming so that it wasn't like returning to the scene of the crime.

 

I can tell you...it does get easier for you to deal with. Given time, and given effort and work put into healing and recovering your marriage, you really can see when things start to improve. They say it takes about two years to recover from cheating...I think that's pretty true. The last rough time I had was around that mark. This year, it wasn't nearly that tough.

[Owl]

Looking back through your thread, I don't see much mention of your marriage, of your relationship with your husband.

 

Does he know about your cyber affair?

 

I also know that you've been urged to contact OMW and tell her what's gone on.

 

It might make more sense to have your H contact her, if he's aware of the affair. If he's not...that's your first step. She's more likely to believe him than she will you...while not fair, its a common response.

 

Where is your marriage at in recovery right now?

[White Flower]

Things do not happen without a reason and a motivation. For a woman (at least for me) it is usually not feeling loved, not feeling "heard", feeling taken for granted, and all of those add up to needing some attention and fullfillment even if it's from another man. We have psychological needs that "must" be fulfilled and they are the things that you fullfilled in us when we decided to "marry" you.

 

This was such a good point. You should copy this and put it into a card for your H to keep by his bedside to read every night before going to bed.

 

The words you wrote get magnified a hundred times over because of your postition in this world as having no family. I feel I am in the same or similar position by having lost everyone, except I do have children. A husband is supposed to make his W feel secure and loved especially when he is all she has left in this world.

 

Sleeplesstoo, I'm glad you told your H about the EA and that he acted positively on it. I could not do this because I know my H would not have acted the same way. That is when I knew it was over. So, I'm happy for you.

 

I know I posted on this thread but my post seems to have been deleted. Does anyone know why?

[OWoman]

I know I posted on this thread but my post seems to have been deleted. Does anyone know why?

 

Maybe it got lost in the data corruption on Saturday?

[Sleeplesstoo]

Looking back through your thread, I don't see much mention of your marriage, of your relationship with your husband.

 

Does he know about your cyber affair?

 

I also know that you've been urged to contact OMW and tell her what's gone on.

 

It might make more sense to have your H contact her, if he's aware of the affair. If he's not...that's your first step. She's more likely to believe him than she will you...while not fair, its a common response.

 

Where is your marriage at in recovery right now?

Owl, yes I did confess. I told him it was a wake-up call for both of us and we now have a plan to try and get things back on track. We BTW had a very good week end filled with a lot of talking, touching, and good sex. Surprisingly he was not mad, did not ask very many questions and agreed that we did have a problem that needed to be addressed and NOW! I told him that what I did was wrong, that I felt it was wrong, but that I was very lonely, and that I should have never been talking to a man online. I told him it was a wake-up call for me and should be for him too. Had I have felt there was nothing positive to be gained from it I would have never told him, but in my case there was.

 

As far as our marriage goes. We really let it go to seed for the last 8 or 9 years. It was more about working all the time, making money, being successful, and then there were his hobbies and interests that always came before our marriage. I gave up and retreated and found my own hobbies and then one day that just wasn't enough so I crossed the line. Trust me it was a lot more fun and fulfilling than my hobbies. Telling someone to find a hobby to sublimate what is mssing in their life is total BS and will never replace love, closeness, and intimacy. So ours is a simple story and I suspect a common one of growing apart because not enough effort was made to grow together.

 

As far as telling the "other man's woman", I'm sorry but she is responsible for her marriage, not me, and he is responsible to handle it in whatever manner he deems appropriate. I don't know the dynamics of their relationship so I feel for me to meddle has just as much potential for harm as it does for good. So it's a "crap shoot" that I don't want to get involved in. I truly believe she knows anyway without me telling her.

 

I am glad that you and your wife have gotten things together. For me it will not take 2 years to get past it and I believe my husband is pretty much already past it. Why the disparity in time, compared to your situation, I don't know.

 

I do know that I am no "Pollyanna" and I know that there is still much work to be done and much vigilence to be kept to guard against anything like this happening again. So that is my story. I have to say that this forum has helped me tremendously and I am glad people like you have shared your advise and perspective and now I am sharing mine and hopefully will pass the torch on to someone who is lost and needing some help.

[Sleeplesstoo]

This was such a good point. You should copy this and put it into a card for your H to keep by his bedside to read every night before going to bed.

 

The words you wrote get magnified a hundred times over because of your postition in this world as having no family. I feel I am in the same or similar position by having lost everyone, except I do have children. A husband is supposed to make his W feel secure and loved especially when he is all she has left in this world.

 

Sleeplesstoo, I'm glad you told your H about the EA and that he acted positively on it. I could not do this because I know my H would not have acted the same way. That is when I knew it was over. So, I'm happy for you.

 

I know I posted on this thread but my post seems to have been deleted. Does anyone know why?

Well I'm glad to hear I am not "losing it" because I thought some things had disappeared. I posted to an entire thread that seems to be MIA.

 

White Flower because it was right for me to "confess" doesn't mean it is the right thing for everyone. You know your situation better than anyone. Just the difference between Owl's situation and mine are proof that there is a huge spectrum of reactions between different people.

 

You are right it really does make you a little crazy having lost all of your family and "yes" those things mean so much more when you are in that situation.

 

Did you and your DH end up getting a divorce? If so, I am sorry that you could not have worked things out. Was your affair an EA, a PA, or online?

[bestadvisor]

Sleeplesstoo, I guarantee you that if you cross into a PA, your husband would not "just forget about it" like he did, because it was a EA. You should count your blessing that you did not meet up with this OM. Even if your H is able to forgive you if you had a PA, it will haunt you for a long time and you might not ever forgive yourself.

[Sleeplesstoo]

Sleeplesstoo, I guarantee you that if you cross into a PA, your husband would not "just forget about it" like he did, because it was a EA. You should count your blessing that you did not meet up with this OM. Even if your H is able to forgive you if you had a PA, it will haunt you for a long time and you might not ever forgive yourself.

This is haunting me now and I won't ever forget it. To me this was probably worse than if I would have just picked someone up for fling or a one nighter. I don't think I ever would have done that because that is not what I needed, I needed the emotional connection. That is not to say that the EA could not have escalated to a PA/EA affair, I think it could easily have done so. But for me the emotional componant was the most important.

 

It's funny, but I think men have a harder time forgiving a PA than a EA. If the roles were reversed I've always said I could deal with him having an affair and I would not divorce him if it was only physical. If however, he loved her, or it was emotional it would be a deal breaker for me. Pretty ironic isn't it.

[bestadvisor]

Your H kinda brush it off because it was an EA. I can't say the same if it's a PA. He would probably deciding whether to divorce you or not if that's the case. If he left you because of your affair, it will haunt you much more severely than it is haunting you now and you will be living with the fact that your H divorce you due to your infidelity and you would always be known as the cheater. That's why I said to you that you should count your blessings.

[BetrayedMM]

Hey, I'm glad to hear it worked out or you! You did the right thing for the right reasons. Now ya have to keep working... so you both don't get complacent again...

 

Betrayed, I am sure you have a thread somewhere, but I am not fully acquinted with your situation. Is it possible to start a dialog with your wife about the "affair" (I don't know if it was PA or EA) without the point being to extract a confession?

 

I know you need to hear her say the words but sometimes there is such a thing as coming in the back door. What you really need to know is "why" she had the affair. What was going on between you both that caused her to look elsewhere for attention? Having said that I do believe there are some who will never be monogomous under any circumstances and if she is one of those, then you need to end it now. However, if she is not, then you need to get to the bottom of why it happened. Things do not happen without a reason and a motivation. For a woman (at least for me) it is usually not feeling loved, not feeling "heard", feeling taken for granted, and all of those add up to needing some attention and fullfillment even if it's from another man. We have psychological needs that "must" be fulfilled and they are the things that you fullfilled in us when we decided to "marry" you.

 

Betrayed, I am not being hard on you in any way, because I don't know your situation, I am just trying to throw some things out for you to think about before you "pull the trigger" on the D. It doesn't sound like that is what you want. You sound frankly devastated by the whole thing. I guess I'm just trying to say ( and you may have done this already) approach your wife with a "what's wrong and how can we fix it attitude" rather than a "you must confess" mindset. I really think that if you can get a soft dialog going, she just might confess at some point. You have to communicate, and you have to start somewhere. Laying blame is not a good place to start, because I can tell you if she was fooling around, she probably feels entitled because 'A' she is so mad at you and has been mad for such a long time she can't think straight, and 'B' she has been so unfulfilled for so long, she thinks nothing more of what she is doing than if she had not eaten for a week and happened on a big meal. I know that sounds crazy, but that is how some of us think. It is called resentment and it is a wholly destructive emotion. If she if finally getting something she has needed for a long time, she does not want to stop, because at that point it is like a drug that soothes some long standing pain. What I have said may be complete and total BS and does not apply to you at all, but there was something that attracted you to my thread so I'm thinking you are seeing some similarities somewhere.

 

As for my DH and me, we have not only mended some fences, but we are in the process of planning a day every week that will be "our time" and only our time. My husband said he thought it was important to plan carefully, because if we did not fulfill our promise to make that time, it would put us in a worse place than we are right now.

 

I am lucky in that I think my situation is going to have a happy ending, but it is going to take work not to slip back to our former situation.

 

Betrayed, please think about some of the things that I have said, and while they may not totally apply to you and your situation, I hope that at least one thing will be of some help to you. Good luck to you and God Bless!

 

I never told the whole story. It would take many hours to type, and be extremely long. I'm not sure if it would do any good, the general conclusion would be that divorce is the appropriate action for me to take. I don't think even one person would suggest reconciliation if I were to spell out every sordid detail...

 

Yes, there is good advice there, and I appreciate the intent, effort, content... Hell, I basically agree with you!

 

I also know this- the emptiness inside my (soon to be ex)wife cannot be filled by me. It does not come from me. I am not the cause, nor am I the solution. I have made every effort over the years to attempt to meet her emotional needs, none of it was appreciated, none of it made any difference, nothing was ever enough, nor could it be. You see, I'm the attentive, inclusive type that actually likes to 'talk about things', to take an interest, to 'be there'. I enjoy it. It makes absolutely no difference when you are dealing with a cake eater though.

 

As far as communicating, the 'backdoor' approach, the 'be careul not to sound accusing and be understanding' approach, the 'let's figure out why' approach, I've tried all that, many times. She is willing to talk about literally everything else. At this point, if any subject matter even gets into the neighborhood of her affairs, honesty, trust, loyalty, anything at all like that she just shuts down completely. Then I'm talking to a wall- the one she has built around her lies.

 

Ya see, unlike you, she has done much that she does indeed feel guilty about. She has a history of this, this is not the first time she has done this to/with me, and her latest affair turns out to actually be 2 guys she was fooling around with(they didn't and do not know about each other, but both certainly know me.) One of them was/is her friend's husband, who in turn has himself just been caught sleeping with yet another man's wife. My wife's friend still does not know my wife was screwing her husband, she thinks it was only this other woman, and my wife is in what must in be one hell of a stressful situation desperately trying to keep all her involvement swept under the rug(and shocked to find out about the other other woman)... And also desperate to hide the full extent of her involvement with yet another guy who in his own way was also insanely and grossly inappropriate...

 

At this point, I'm just watching... It's getting SO ridiculous that it's almost amusing. Jerry Springer. Soon it will all catch up with her, but she is currently digging herself into a very deep hole with quite a few folks. In the meantime, I've consulted with a lawyer, and since this is not a no-fault state, I am in the process of building a pretty good case.

 

Think maybe it would be wise of her to come clean? LOL!

 

As far as what I want- I can't have what I want. I really don't see any way to work on our relationship effectively, when this issue is off limits. I see it as at this point all other issues are irrelevant, because there can be no marriage until these issues have been seriously addressed. So, although you may think of me as a guy who neglects his wife's needs, even if that were the case(and it's not), the reason my marriage has fallen apart is because my wife has decided her sex life is none of my business. She is self destructing, and sure won't accept any help from me about this... I would like to help her, but she won't listen. At all.

 

Make sense? Still identify with her? Now maybe you understand why I maintain that there is absolutely no excuse for an affair under any circumstances.

 

My posts were a stern warning, because these things start the way yours did, and can easily go past the point of return. When that happens it destroys lives. If you want to know where it leads, read the "I lost everything" thread...

 

For my wife, I'm afraid it will be even worse... but this is an active choice that she is making. Even if I for some reason don't divorce her, and I NEVER expose her affairs, they are being slowly exposed anyway, and she has a very large price to pay that actually has nothing to do with me at all. There is of course one thing that she could do, or more accurately could have done... but she doesn't have the courage. You did. Congrads!

 

Yes, our situations are very different, but the one thing that would make the biggest difference is exactly the same, as you found out.

 

I hope you don't make the same mistake again... It probably won't have a happy ending the second time.

[Sleeplesstoo]

Hi Betrayed,

 

I don't want to sound like I am standing on high holy ground here a "paragon of virtue", but I just can't even believe some of the nightmares I have been reading here. I guess the problem I am having is not just the cheating but the cheating with "multiple partners". That really gets me for some reason. Maybe it's because my needs were more emotionally based. To me this stuff in your case and another I read today sounds more like a sexual addiction which certainly has more pathalogical implications and certainly something that "YOU" cannot fix or be responsible for any more than if your wife was bi-polar or had cancer. You did not make that happen. That is something instinsic that resides in her. It sounds like you have been living with a "train wreck" and you deserve a medal. And you are right that kind of need cannot be filled by you and in her case even 2 lovers. It cannot be filled by anyone until she really finds out just what it is she needs.

 

There are reasonable expectations that we have for a marriage and what it can provide for us and then there are unreasonable expectations. We ultimately are all responsible for our own happiness. Happiness is not something that is given to us by others but something we give to ourselves. I would have to guess that your wife because of her behavior (and God knows it would probably take a lot of money and a lot of hours of therapy to figure out what drives that) is incapable with providing you with a normal marital relationship as in fulfilling her vows to you. It is her that is broken, not you.

 

You sound like a sensitive caring man or you would have been gone long ago. It's time for you to find someone who can give that back to you and who appreciates your "all in" approach to marriage. It really sounds like it is time for you to move on and begin a new chapter in your life. You can't fix everything or everyone. At this point it's time to take care of yourself.

 

As for me if I slip back into that behavior again then I didn't really address the problem and at that point I will deserve what I get. If we can't put it back together again then it's time to leave not cheat.

[BetrayedMM]

Oh, btw, what attracted my attention to this thread....

 

I saw what appears to be an intelligent and conscientious person who got caught up in a really bad situation... and was wondering what to do about it. In my situation, from my perspective, the answer was and is crystal clear. If you want to connect with your husband, if you want an improvement in the relationship, honesty, baring and sharing your soul with him is the direct route, in fact it's the only way. It's not a game, and competition won't work.

 

Most folks who cheat and post about it just aren't as articulate at expressing their case. I thought that maybe in your case the logic of doing the right thing would become clear. It seems it did. So, even though I'm not inclined towards sympathy under the circumstances, and I don't sound or feel very diplomatic, in my own cynical, abrasive way... I was actually trying to help you! You see, I see potential in you, that in your rare case you might actually 'get it' in time, before it's too late.

[BetrayedMM]

My wife is bipolar. Promiscuity happens to be a symptom of that. Sad, but true.

[Sleeplesstoo]

Betrayed, thanks for your what I guess is "faith" that some of us will get it. I appreciate the compliments and what I was here for, was not to be told "you poor thing, you had every right to feel the way you did". I can get that from my girlfriends. I was here to get some real "raw" perspective on things, and that is what I got. Had I not have come here, I'm quite sure I would have never told him, and then what I did would have definitely been destructive on all fronts. I really do feel in some ways it was a positive thing because without it, and this, we would have never begun the dialog that we have recently begun. I would have been miserably living in what I considered to be a loveless sterile environment or I would have been euphorically living my double life on the internet. By the way, the reason I used the word euphoric and not "happy" is because I can honestly say that the 3 months that the EA went on, I did not sleep. 4 hours a night, and that was it. It was euphoric, and exciting, and very uncomfortable. I have been sleeping like a "baby" once again since it ended.

 

I think that old thing about "men are from Mars and women are from Venus" is really true so I think it helps all of us here to get some perspective from the opposite sex.

 

I am somewhat "intuitive" with people (sorry if that sounds crazy) and I am not surprised to hear of your wife's bipolar condition. I know first hand that sort of sexual behavior is part and parcel to that condition. My husband has a friend who's wife is bipolar and the first time I met her was at a company Christmas party. She was coming on to every man in the place and outrageously so. I always thought she was just drunk out of her mind and did not learn until several years later that she was bipolar. Then it all made sense.

 

I cannot begin to tell you how "shocked" (for lack of a better word) I am at what some people are willing to accept as "normal" in their lives. As the stories begin to unwind throughout these threads they are literally peppered with huge red flags. Not a single indiscretion or two but literally dozens of big, red, flags. My problems are so simple by comparison. Many of these problems, such as yours are so complex and probably very difficult to unwind, if that is a possiblity at all.

 

My heart really goes out to you, and it goes without saying that I appreciate your input and perspective as it relates to my very "simple" problem. I truly believe there is something much better down the road for you, but you have to continue to travel the road to get to it, and I suppose that is really the hard part for you now. I'm sure in many ways you just want it to be over and yet I'm guessing a part of you is not wanting to let go. Best of luck to you my friend and God Bless!!

[Sleeplesstoo]

I am sitting here feeling very lonely right now. I miss my internet relationship. I have a void of time and emotion that I need to somehow fill, so I will not be tempted to get involved in that whole thing again. I'm sure in spite of everything I could establish contact with him once again, since I am the one who broke it off. I know what I am feeling is my "addiction" calling to me. There is a little bit of a let down because the holiday is pretty much over and I think that is contributing to my feelings as well. It doesn't help that I keep dreaming about the whole thing too. Believe it or not I email in my sleep all night long. I really want this "craving" to let go of me, but so far it is not, or maybe I am not letting go of it, I don't know. I keep trying, but I keep dreaming, and I can't control what I dream. I read somewhere that it can be particurally hard to rid yourself of these memories because according to this "expert" you are dealing with a "ghost lover" who can sometimes haunt you because of the part of your brain those kinds of memories reside in. Maybe because in many ways he was never a flesh and blood person since I never actually met him. He has the luxury of remaining the perfect person that I created in my mind.

 

My husband has committed to the "rebuilding" process and he is really trying and I am really trying as well. I cannot betray that. If I did then I would really "HATE" myself. It would be immoral and wrong on every level.

So I am trying to use the time spent writing to OM to learn more about EA's and infidelity and internet infidelity in particular, because I think it is really a "different animal" in the big scheme of things. I am also trying to learn how to rebuild my marriage and the reasons why we got so off track.

 

Having said all of that, if you are reading this because you have been on either side of an "internet affair" here is a link to some excellent information on that subject.

 

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5028_qa.html

 

I believe marriagebuilders has been mentioned here before, but this particular part of the site was very helpful to me and as I said if you are having similar problems it will be helpful to you.

[White Flower]

Well I'm glad to hear I am not "losing it" because I thought some things had disappeared. I posted to an entire thread that seems to be MIA.

 

White Flower because it was right for me to "confess" doesn't mean it is the right thing for everyone. You know your situation better than anyone. Just the difference between Owl's situation and mine are proof that there is a huge spectrum of reactions between different people.

 

You are right it really does make you a little crazy having lost all of your family and "yes" those things mean so much more when you are in that situation.

 

Did you and your DH end up getting a divorce? If so, I am sorry that you could not have worked things out. Was your affair an EA, a PA, or online?

No, I've been asking for a D for over a year now and H just can't and won't accept it. He's not in love anymore but says we have to stay together until the youngest is 18. Funny, huh? He still needs to control me even after I've told him it's over and I want out. I'm in therapy and getting stronger every day. I think if I had some kind of family to fall back on I would have been out by now but as I've said I have no one.

 

My PA continues. I had decided to end it because the lows are just crazy low for me but I've decided to hold off for now. I know it cannot continue forever, but it's hard to let go of one of the few joys you know. Right now, he is my only strenth and support besides a few girlfriends.

 

I read about those books you suggested on CJ's thread and think I'll look into them. You and I seem to have similar personalities. Being sensitive unfortunately seems to benefit others in our lives and rarely ourselves. Then when we ponder the idea of death we reach out for our own joy before it's too late. But, what a difficult path that is!

[Sleeplesstoo]

Then when we ponder the idea of death we reach out for our own joy before it's too late. But, what a difficult path that is!

 

How strange you should say that. I have never mentioned that in my posts, but you are exactly right. The idea of getting old and dying and never having the joy weighs very heavy on my mind as well and is also really a big part of what is going on with me right now. I know exactly what you mean. I guess it's normal in middle age to look back and wonder about the "road not taken", and if you have done the right things with your life.

 

I'm sure if I were to want a divorce my DH would be the same. He really does love me and has said many times this will be the only marriage for him. That makes it harder doesn't it. I do not have children, but I know that must certainly complicate matters for you.

 

Sensitivity is really a mixed blessing. It's good in that we laugh and feel joy in what may be a more magnified way then our "not so sensitive" counterparts, but we really feel the "pain" on the flip side. I'm like you, had I have had some family I probably would not have stayed either.

 

I can imagine your attachment to your OM, so I certainly cannot judge you for that. As far as the lows, I felt those as well with my cyberaffair and it was really torment. It is torment now.

 

Do your love your OM or is it just a stop gap on the way to somewhere else?

[White Flower]

How strange you should say that. I have never mentioned that in my posts, but you are exactly right. The idea of getting old and dying and never having the joy weighs very heavy on my mind as well and is also really a big part of what is going on with me right now. I know exactly what you mean. I guess it's normal in middle age to look back and wonder about the "road not taken", and if you have done the right things with your life.

 

I'm sure if I were to want a divorce my DH would be the same. He really does love me and has said many times this will be the only marriage for him. That makes it harder doesn't it. I do not have children, but I know that must certainly complicate matters for you.

 

Sensitivity is really a mixed blessing. It's good in that we laugh and feel joy in what may be a more magnified way then our "not so sensitive" counterparts, but we really feel the "pain" on the flip side. I'm like you, had I have had some family I probably would not have stayed either.

 

I can imagine your attachment to your OM, so I certainly cannot judge you for that. As far as the lows, I felt those as well with my cyberaffair and it was really torment. It is torment now.

 

Do your love your OM or is it just a stop gap on the way to somewhere else?

Well, your post has my crying now. I thought I read that in your post, but since we are so similar I must have read between the lines.

 

Yes, I am deeply in love. If anyone were custom made for me spiritually, emotionally, and physically it would have been him. I wish I could take credit for his design because he is just perfect.

 

The first time our hands accidentally touched, there was electricity. At that point I thought I would never see him again and also thought, yes, he may be just a stop gap to somewhere else. It did put the idea in my head that I could feel that way again. That surge of energy...I thought that only came with youth. It surprised the hell out of me. It also gave me a strong will to begin the D process even though it had been on my mind for a long time.

 

But he chased me. It was friendly in the beginning and it took a long time to grow. It took him more than a year to kiss me and I didn't see it coming. Pretty cautious, both of us. I guess we were just fighting it but it finally got the best of us. It is the perfect romance except that we are both married.

 

He knows I have nobody and sometimes I wonder if he feels he can't back out because of this. I wish I'd never told him that. He has a hero sort of character and wants to be there for me. I should tell him a long lost aunt has left me some money or something, lol. Then maybe he wouldn't feel so bad for leaving me should he want to. I will probably have to do that just to set him free without him feeling guilty. I know it's not his place to feel guilty for the OW, but he would for me. That's just him. I'm sure you can see why I'm so attached.