Nice Guy rant taken from Craigslist

[Phateless]

My buddy emailed this to me and I got a kick out of it so I just thought I'd post it. I'm aware that it's not true with every girl, but I still think every girl should read it. I do most definitely agree with the sentiments. A few girls that ripped me apart because of my nice guy nature are the reason I see so many girls now.

 

*Curse words have been removed and replaced with (euphemisms) to appease Tony.*

 

 

 

"What Happened to All the Nice Guys?"

 

Reply to:

Date: 2007-11-19, 3:52AM

 

I see this question posted with some regularity in the personals section, so I thought I'd take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven't figured it out.

What happened to all the nice guys?

The answer is simple: you did.

See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He'd tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn't feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were (sleeping with) treated you.

At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were "just friends." Besides, he totally wasn't your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn't know how to dress himself, or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.

Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you werent dating him. More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren't the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship. So, now, you're single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, "What happened to all the nice guys?"

Well, once again, you did.

You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy. You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion. You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive "just-a-" friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life. He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren't really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you're upset; or hold you when you cry. He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he'd have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an (A hole) than he ever wanted to be.

Fact is, now, he's probably getting laid, and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I'm sorry that it took the complete absence of "nice guys" in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.

So, if you're looking for a nice guy, here's what you do:

1.) Build a time machine.

2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.

3.) Take a look at what's right in front of you and grab ahold of it.

I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don't really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men. In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.

If you were five years younger.

So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you've (screwed) yourself over. You're getting older, after all. It's time to excise the bull(crap) and deal with reality. You didn't want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn't (F ing) want you, now.

Sincerely,

A Recovering Nice Guy

• Location: LA
  
• it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

Original URL: (link removed to appease tony )

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[Phateless]

The original rant can be found on Craigslist using the best of feature.

[Florida]

Interesting, but it would be more valid if he was writing about being the nice guy who got dumped in the context of a relationship.

 

This particular nice guy does not have my sympathy so much because he chose to lay himself out for a friend, why the bitterness? It was his call to stick around, especially in the role of friend. And then to say he is not a nice guy anymore and it was because he wasn't appreciated?? What? She told him he wasn't a candidate, why all the bitterness?

 

So now he is no longer a nice guy-but why didn't he take responibility and try to actually find a girl that would reciprocate and date him?

 

No, you can't just choose someone, try wooing them for years once they set you straight, then say you will never be a nice guy to some other girl in the future because they don't deserve it . This sounds pathological.

[Phateless]

Interesting, but it would be more valid if he was writing about being the nice guy who got dumped in the context of a relationship.

 

This particular nice guy does not have my sympathy so much because he chose to lay himself out for a friend, why the bitterness? It was his call to stick around, especially in the role of friend. And then to say he is not a nice guy anymore and it was because he wasn't appreciated?? What? She told him he wasn't a candidate, why all the bitterness?

 

So now he is no longer a nice guy-but why didn't he take responibility and try to actually find a girl that would reciprocate and date him?

 

No, you can't just choose someone, try wooing them for years once they set you straight, then say you will never be a nice guy to some other girl in the future because they don't deserve it . This sounds pathological.

 

Well that's the lesson I learned from being in that situation many years ago. The issue is that the girl knows full well that he wants more, but never outright tells him it's not gonna happen. She just enjoys the attention and doesn't really care that he's in love with her. If she said "I will never want to be with you" he might go away.

[Florida]

That's just wrong of the girl, the way you described it phateless.

 

But if she used the words "just a friend" that is tantamount to I most likely never want more than this now or in the future, if she didn't and was ambivalent while not atually deciding anything one way or the other that's just cruel. What a tease!

 

But re-reading the above post, I still feel like if he wanted the girl he really had to lay it out and decide one way or the other, it is both their faults for letting it get strung on. In the above post, not you Phate.

[lindya]

This particular nice guy does not have my sympathy so much because he chose to lay himself out for a friend, why the bitterness? It was his call to stick around, especially in the role of friend. And then to say he is not a nice guy anymore and it was because he wasn't appreciated?? What? She told him he wasn't a candidate, why all the bitterness?

 

So now he is no longer a nice guy-but why didn't he take responibility and try to actually find a girl that would reciprocate and date him?

 

No, you can't just choose someone, try wooing them for years once they set you straight, then say you will never be a nice guy to some other girl in the future because they don't deserve it . This sounds pathological.

 

Absolutely. I've got male friends. Male friends will sometimes fancy a crack at you after a few drinks or if they're in a horny mood. What they won't do is store up bitterness, hostility and resentment for years afterwards if you say no. Just like any friend, they'll be genuinely concerned and angry if some guy treats you like crap. They won't sit around gloating because you were the girl who knocked them back a couple of years ago.

 

That's the difference between a genuine friend and a pseudo-nice-guy who doesn't actually like women very much. Who's just using the veil of friendship in the hope that there will be some sexual outcome to it all. Who isn't honest enough to let women know straight up what it is he really wants.

 

This Craigslist guy exemplifies one of the main reasons a certain type of "nice guy" get such a bad press. We don't trust them. We don't believe they're nearly as nice as they portray themselves to be. Often there's a certain sliminess we can't quite put our fingers on. That post captures the essence of it.

[Florida]

Absolutely. I've got male friends. Male friends will sometimes fancy a crack at you after a few drinks or if they're in a horny mood. What they won't do is store up bitterness, hostility and resentment for years afterwards if you say no. Just like any friend, they'll be genuinely concerned and angry if some guy treats you like crap. They won't sit around gloating because you were the girl who knocked them back a couple of years ago.

 

That's the difference between a genuine friend and a pseudo-nice-guy who doesn't actually like women very much. Who's just using the veil of friendship in the hope that there will be some sexual outcome to it all. Who isn't honest enough to let women know straight up what it is he really wants.

 

This Craigslist guy exemplifies one of the main reasons a certain type of "nice guy" get such a bad press. We don't trust them. We don't believe they're nearly as nice as they portray themselves to be. Often there's a certain sliminess we can't quite put our fingers on. That post captures the essence of it.

 

 

Exactly, so now he is out to hurt and sleep with as many women as possible to show this girl who tossed himself, the nice guy aside.

 

He should look into himself first to ask why he never put it out there for her, in the form of "I like you-where is this going?" but then grew to hate all women afterwards for the supposed bad treatment.

 

Or, like you said, mr. nice guy was not so nice to begin with.

[Trialbyfire]

Don't take this personally Phateless. This is for the "nice guy" in Craigslist.

 

Translation:

 

I'm a victim. It's everyone else's fault that I suck at life so I'm going to be cynical and nasty to every woman I meet in the future. After all, what one woman did to me, is all your fault.

[Phateless]

Exactly, so now he is out to hurt and sleep with as many women as possible to show this girl who tossed himself, the nice guy aside.

 

He should look into himself first to ask why he never put it out there for her, in the form of "I like you-where is this going?" but then grew to hate all women afterwards for the supposed bad treatment.

 

Or, like you said, mr. nice guy was not so nice to begin with.

 

To me, it's not about being rejected once when drunk. That's stupid. NOW, I know that if I am in love with a friend, it's my own decision on what to do, but a few years ago I didn't. I thought because of her mixed signals that I could one day win her over, because that's how nice guys are raised.

 

It's like the movie "just friends". He was always in love with her but she was oblivious, either genuinely or because she wanted to be.

[KittenMoon]

This is great- guys should take note, NOT to be like this, because girls know when you have an ulterior motive, and we don't respect you for having it and playing the concerned puppy dog. Guys like this make me wanna hit them.

 

Then again, I've done this once as a girl- I'm still appalled at the what the guy pulled on me (though we were never passed the friend line). Fortunately, I turned it around on him right quick, and it's a rather amusing story now.

 

But seriously, if a guy wants to be a friend, be concerned. If you want a f--k, pursue, then leave if you get a "no".

[bish]

Don't take this personally Phateless. This is for the "nice guy" in Craigslist.

 

Translation:

 

I'm a victim. It's everyone else's fault that I suck at life so I'm going to be cynical and nasty to every woman I meet in the future. After all, what one woman did to me, is all your fault.

 

Well..that guys rant was pretty pathetic...but there is still some truth in it there.

 

I hear alot of women on these boards say that they were highly attracted to the "bad boys"....and as they got older they learned better....but basically its like they ignored the guys that would treat them well....until later on in life when they will simply "settle" for a nice guy.

 

So that is still what nice guys have to put up with....they are being settled for and aren't really a woman's first choice.

[Phateless]

Don't take this personally Phateless. This is for the "nice guy" in Craigslist.

 

Translation:

 

I'm a victim. It's everyone else's fault that I suck at life so I'm going to be cynical and nasty to every woman I meet in the future. After all, what one woman did to me, is all your fault.

 

There is a middle ground. I know NOW that if I let it go on that way for long enough it's my fault, but at the time I got taken advantage of by a girl who didn't care. Lesson learned.

[Trialbyfire]

Well..that guys rant was pretty pathetic...but there is still some truth in it there.

 

I hear alot of women on these boards say that they were highly attracted to the "bad boys"....and as they got older they learned better....but basically its like they ignored the guys that would treat them well....until later on in life when they will simply "settle" for a nice guy.

 

So that is still what nice guys have to put up with....they are being settled for and aren't really a woman's first choice.

Here's what I see. Boy likes girl and pretends to be her friend, to get close to her. Girl makes it clear she's not interested. Boy gets bitter because she refuses to reciprocate his desire.

 

Better to state your desire upfront and if you have issues with non-reciprocation, don't pretend to be her friend. Move on.

[Trialbyfire]

There is a middle ground. I know NOW that if I let it go on that way for long enough it's my fault, but at the time I got taken advantage of by a girl who didn't care. Lesson learned.

While I agree that there are predatory women out there, who will take advantage by leading a guy on, I don't see it in the Craigslist example. What I see is that this guy attempted to control the situation by pretending to be her friend. It was his choice to remain close to her with the understanding that it was solely a friendship. She's not responsible for his actions.

[Phateless]

Here's what I see. Boy likes girl and pretends to be her friend, to get close to her. Girl makes it clear she's not interested. Boy gets bitter because she refuses to reciprocate his desire.

 

Better to state your desire upfront and if you have issues with non-reciprocation, don't pretend to be her friend. Move on.

 

That's not what I see at all. I see a boy who develops feelings for a friend and pines for her for years with no idea how to take it to the next level. He's afraid of rejection and hopes they'll end up getting together one day but has no clue how to make that happen. Meanwhile, she knows he has a crush on her but hangs out with him anyway.

[Trialbyfire]

That's not what I see at all. I see a boy who develops feelings for a friend and pines for her for years with no idea how to take it to the next level.

Okay. Let's look at it from your spin.

He's afraid of rejection and hopes they'll end up getting together but has no clue how to make that happen.

How is this her issue? Must she reciprocate and make it happen for him?

She knows he has a crush on her and hangs out with him anyways.

Is this her fault for him having a crush on her? Is she responsible for his additional feelings? Maybe she likes him as a friend and enjoys his company. Is this such a bad thing?

[Phateless]

Okay. Let's look at it from your spin.

How is this her issue? Must she reciprocate and make it happen for him?

Is this her fault for him having a crush on her? Is she responsible for his additional feelings? Maybe she likes him as a friend and enjoys his company. Is this such a bad thing?

 

No I'm not saying it's her issue. I'm just saying that women should be aware of how devastating this is to guys. If one of my friends was in love with me and I didn't return the feelings, I probably wouldn't feel comfortable hanging out with them so much and so intimately because it's unfair to send mixed signals.

[Trialbyfire]

No I'm not saying it's her issue. I'm just saying that women should be aware of how devastating this is to guys. If one of my friends was in love with me and I didn't return the feelings, I probably wouldn't feel comfortable hanging out with them so much and so intimately because it's unfair to send mixed signals.

I get the feeling sometimes that some men feel women are responsible for all things relationship related. I find this attitude a total cop-out, just like some women believe that men should always provide for them. Welcome to the 2000s...

[Mustang Sally]

Oh for cripe's sake.

 

If you want to date asssh*les, then act like an assh*le and hang around with them.

 

If you want to date nice people, then be a nice person, and hang around with nice people.

 

There are some sh*ts out there (in every gender, shape and size), and we have ALL ran into a few from time to time. Likely, eventually, they will get theirs.

 

Grow up already, consider it one of life's lessons learned, and pull your balls back out of your abdominal cavity from whence they retracted!

 

Jeebuz.

 

As an aside, I do not really think most sane women really relish BAD guys.

We just like men who can be men.

 

Know what I mean?

 

Men who are not afraid to be confident...or have a bit of an attitude from time to time...or tell us what we need to hear when we need to hear it.

 

If I was interested in pussies, I would have dated women.

 

Capiche?

[Phateless]

I get the feeling sometimes that some men feel women are responsible for all things relationship related. I find this attitude a total cop-out, just like some women believe that men should always provide for them. Welcome to the 2000s...

 

Agreed. Like I said, I can relate to this rant, but *I* would never allow this sort of thing to happen to me again because I know better. But it still hurt when it did happen.

[Trialbyfire]

Agreed. Like I said, I can relate to this rant, but *I* would never allow this sort of thing to happen to me again because I know better. But it still hurt when it did happen.

No doubt it did hurt, just like it hurts when any relationship doesn't work out.

 

It's a lesson to be learned, that if you allow yourself to be a doormat, you will be treated as one. This can be applied to familial, friendship or romantic relationship. Learn to give and take. Just don't get bitter about it and try to take more than you give because that just sets up another form of relationship failure, if you're looking for one.

[Phateless]

No doubt it did hurt, just like it hurts when any relationship doesn't work out.

 

It's a lesson to be learned, that if you allow yourself to be a doormat, you will be treated as one. This can be applied to familial, friendship or romantic relationship. Learn to give and take. Just don't get bitter about it and try to take more than you give because that just sets up another form of relationship failure, if you're looking for one.

 

Right, I know all that now. It still sounds to me as if the girl from the rant was taking a lot more than she was giving.

[lindya]

Right, I know all that now. It still sounds to me as if the girl from the rant was taking a lot more than she was giving.

 

 

From the rant:

 

You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy.

 

Emotional intimacy is common in female friendships. Some men gravitate towards women for friendship because they're looking for some level of warmth/emotional intimacy that they don't get from their male friendships. Maybe they also have a sexual attraction to the woman in question, maybe they don't - or perhaps they're sporadically attracted to her.

 

Let's say I have a f*ck buddy relationship with a guy, develop an emotional attachment to him and start getting agitated because the love isn't reciprocated. Is anyone really at fault in that situation? Taking it a step further....if I were to enter into that then later complain that the guy just used me for sex, that would suggest that sex was never the motivating factor for me. That I entered into a f*ck buddy situation prima facie for sex, but really with the hidden agenda of wanting a boyfriend.

 

Either I would have to admit to that, or I would have to confess that I enjoyed the sexual aspect too...and that I also, therefore, got something positive out of being a f*ck buddy. That there might have been a price to pay insofar as the situation inspired emotional needs that didn't get fulfilled....but that doesn't detract from the fact that physically I did get something out of it.

 

I see the same situation with the nice guy who fancies his female friend - who fails to reciprocate. He gets something out of the platonic friendship. Some emotional need gets filled. The price is that being with her fires up physical desires that, due to the nature of the friendship, don't get fulfilled.

 

Whether it's the f*ck buddy situation or the platonic one, people will stay in these things for as long as the good seems to outweigh the bad...or the satisfaction of certain needs outbalances the frustration of others. They might moan about it for attention, venting or the sheer joy of listening to themselves complain, but if they're staying in it then you can bet they're getting something out of it.

 

Once you start feeling truly resentful and unappreciated, it's time to either talk that through to see if it can be remedied/the relationship can be put on a different footing - or, more probably, just accept that it's time to get out. I think that as long as a person remains clogged up with "I gave far more than I got" resentment, it's a sign that they either failed to recognise those warning signs in good time, or refused to act on them. Either way, storing up vast amounts of resentment against the other person for that personal failure is a bit unfair. It's also human, of course.

[Trialbyfire]

Love it lindya. "What's your currency and what's mine?"

[Phateless]

Lindya - I think you're right. The way I would play it now is that as soon as I realize I want more I have to make an executive decision on what to do, and not resent her for it. I can try for more or I can stop hanging out with her. I have to be mature enough to make the call.