Came face to face with my MM and his wife

[OWoman]

So, when one person decides that sex is no longer necessary, he or she has essentially broken the marriage vow. And as a consequence of this broken vow, the helpless partner chooses an affair or alliance with such a lady as Lizzie, can he be faulted for breaking HIS marriage vow when his wife may have done so first?

 

James I'd disagree that the partner is HELPLESS, but I do agree that people have to be consistent: sex is either important (in which case, deliver on your marital obligations!) or it's not (in which case, allow the other party to go outside).

 

Personally though I hate the thought of sex as a duty, or something that someone HAS to provide for another. If the desire is not there, I'd hate someone to oblige me just because I had needs and they were under some contract to provide.

[JamesM]

James I'd disagree that the partner is HELPLESS,

 

The partner is helpless in the sense that he or she has no choice but to wait for the "sexless one" to change his or her mind. As a man who has been doing everything, I know that there are many options to pursue, but still...ultimately it is the one who denies sex that is in control. This lack of control is what drives many angry spouses into affairs.

 

Personally though I hate the thought of sex as a duty, or something that someone HAS to provide for another. If the desire is not there, I'd hate someone to oblige me just because I had needs and they were under some contract to provide.

 

I agree. I am not into pity sex. But yet think about it...there are many things we do in a marriage that are not what we want to do. My wife and I go out to lunch at least once a week. I enjoy it, but it is not as important to me as it is to her. She likes the time alone when we can talk with no interruptions. Now this is not a direct comparison to sex, but in the same way, the one who does not like sex should consider the fact that "since sex is important to my partner, then I should find out why I do not find it so important. And if I don't enjoy it and it is important to my marriage, then it is necessary that I discover how I can be interested in it."

 

Back to the comparison...if I really did not like lunch dates and my wife needed a lunch partner, would I tell her that while I don't like lunch, I would feel betrayed if you went out to lunch with someone else? No. Why? Because it is important that I be her partner in every way that she needs me. This is an expression of my love to her...spend time with her and listen to her problems/plans/desires.

 

To me this is the reason why Lizzie has an MM who will stay with her. His wife may be a beautiful woman to him, but what is it about her that drove him to the choice of visiting a "professional masseuse?"

[child_of_isis]

I think this is all where it begins.

 

Women are pushed to have sex for the sake of sex. It doesn't matter if she is tired, feels unattractive, has a headache. These are nothing but "excuses"...they are not valid to anyone but her.

 

No thought of her needs/issues are taken into consideration or delved into.

 

Maybe hubby has let himself get out of shape. Maybe he farts in the marital bed. Maybe she needs music, candles and a back rub.

 

Afterward, they are left with a feeling of being used. Sex becomes something you "owe" instead of something you share.

 

..so they shut down even more so in the sexual department.

 

Been there done that, got the t-shirt.

 

 

 

 

Personally though I hate the thought of sex as a duty, or something that someone HAS to provide for another. If the desire is not there, I'd hate someone to oblige me just because I had needs and they were under some contract to provide.

[Havn_a_life]

As a husband who is in a nearly sexless marriage, I KNOW that sex is not what marriage is about. Yet I cannot help wonder why someone who is married would not want to engage in sex with their partner.

 

Sex is an expression of love between two married people. It is intended to be a sign of commitment to one's spouse. When one person decides (a physical disability is not a decision to abstain from sex and is excluded) that sex is some sideline recreational activity that has no bearing on the status of the marriage, then it is a certain sign that this marriage is not strong. In fact, this marriage is nothing more than a very good friendship and partnership that is together for say...children or similar reasons.

 

When I vowed to be faithful to my wife, it was understood that one of the main things I meant by that was...sex was to be with her only. But when she vowed to be faithful to me, this was also understood. So, when one person decides that sex is no longer necessary, he or she has essentially broken the marriage vow. And as a consequence of this broken vow, the helpless partner chooses an affair or alliance with such a lady as Lizzie, can he be faulted for breaking HIS marriage vow when his wife may have done so first?

 

If sex is not important to marriage, then why is it so awful if a man or woman strays from his or her marriage for sex? Because sex IS the expression of marriage that sets it apart from a great friendship. Without sex, husbands and wives become roommates and friends.

 

Wake up people. Affairs are usually the result of something and the symptom of something much greater than simply a man feeding his hunger for sex. While I think I have made it very clear that I am not in favor of affairs (or I would not be here), I also have a problem with people who seem to think that sex is somehow not linked to marital happiness. It may not be the only measurement of happiness, but it is certainly an important one.

 

I didn't say I didn't have sex with my H. I just stated it isn't numero uno on my list of priorities to make my M work.

 

If my H's A yrs ago was because he wasn't getting any at home, I know for a fact that's a crock of sh*it.

I just think that being said, he strayed, and I forgave and he returned to our M. He now understands, our M isn't all about him getting a piece.

[Havn_a_life]

James I'd disagree that the partner is HELPLESS, but I do agree that people have to be consistent: sex is either important (in which case, deliver on your marital obligations!) or it's not (in which case, allow the other party to go outside).

 

Personally though I hate the thought of sex as a duty, or something that someone HAS to provide for another. If the desire is not there, I'd hate someone to oblige me just because I had needs and they were under some contract to provide.

 

I quite happily delivered the goods before the A.

he made it an issue that he needed to stray.

I don't owe my H sex now, just because we've worked the M out.

 

To us both, his straying showed us that our M shouldn't be about sex 100%.

We're alot happier now than before his A.

[OWoman]

The partner is helpless in the sense that he or she has no choice but to wait for the "sexless one" to change his or her mind. As a man who has been doing everything, I know that there are many options to pursue, but still...ultimately it is the one who denies sex that is in control. This lack of control is what drives many angry spouses into affairs.

 

OK, I get you. Yes, there are options, but when they run out you're pretty much down to the wire. Is it a big enough deal to split over, or do you just have to bite the bullet? The neglected partner is pretty much held to ransom by the other.

 

 

I agree. I am not into pity sex. But yet think about it...there are many things we do in a marriage that are not what we want to do. My wife and I go out to lunch at least once a week. I enjoy it, but it is not as important to me as it is to her. She likes the time alone when we can talk with no interruptions. Now this is not a direct comparison to sex, but in the same way, the one who does not like sex should consider the fact that "since sex is important to my partner, then I should find out why I do not find it so important. And if I don't enjoy it and it is important to my marriage, then it is necessary that I discover how I can be interested in it."

 

OK I'm really struggling with this notion that people can love each other and not want to jump each other's bones. How does someone's libido just dry up? And surely if there's libido there, and someone you love, you make the connection?

[OWoman]

I think this is all where it begins.

 

Women are pushed to have sex for the sake of sex. It doesn't matter if she is tired, feels unattractive, has a headache. These are nothing but "excuses"...they are not valid to anyone but her.

 

Don't they WANT sex? Don't their libidos leave them thrashing around in bed, climbing the walls, ready to jump the cucumbers at the grocer's? I can't imagine a woman's own needs not pushing her to crave it as much, if not more, than a man's. After all, women have hormone cycles and some times the craving speaks!

 

No thought of her needs/issues are taken into consideration or delved into.

 

Maybe hubby has let himself get out of shape. Maybe he farts in the marital bed. Maybe she needs music, candles and a back rub.

 

Afterward, they are left with a feeling of being used. Sex becomes something you "owe" instead of something you share.

 

..so they shut down even more so in the sexual department.

 

Been there done that, got the t-shirt.

 

CoI those are RELATIONSHIP issues - surely the way to deal with those is through MC, or just better communication? Not only sex would suffer from that, that's a whole relationship going down the toilet, IMO...

[JamesM]

 

Women are pushed to have sex for the sake of sex. It doesn't matter if she is tired, feels unattractive, has a headache. These are nothing but "excuses"...they are not valid to anyone but her.

 

 

 

..so they shut down even more so in the sexual department.

 

Been there done that, got the t-shirt.

 

I agree that women can and do have many good reasons for not wanting sex, but is it then the man's job to solve every possible "excuse" for her before there can be sex? And not to be arrogant, but if you ask my wife, she will tell you that I have tried...as many men have done...to set the mood and make her happy, but then along comes a phone call or some other uncontrolled event which then shoots everything to pieces. Should it be that way ALL the time?

 

It is amazing to me how many times her feelings ARE taken into consideration. When I read here of the so many things men do to get sex at home, I am amazed at how so many women just don't get it. And then when someone like Lizzie mentions her MM, she is jumped on for breaking up a home.

 

Afterward, they are left with a feeling of being used. Sex becomes something you "owe" instead of something you share.

 

The fact is...in the marriage ceremony, both partners vowed to be faithful. SO, yes, we owe it to each other to make that possible. How can a man be expected to abstain from sex simply because his wife decides to abstain? She knows full well that if she had said at the ceremony that she would decide sex is not her thing, then that ceremony would have never happened. And if during the dating days she had said that sex would one day be unnecessary, then do you think she would have found a husband? No, because most couple realize that sex is an expression of love and to keep it as that, it is an essential part of marriage. In that sense, yes, each person owes his or her partner sexual intimacy.

 

Maybe hubby has let himself get out of shape. Maybe he farts in the marital bed. Maybe she needs music, candles and a back rub.

 

Yes, there are many things a woman "needs" in order to have sex. She "may" need this or she "may" need that. Funny thing is...all of these maybes get kinda confusing and frustrating after awhile. And then when a back rub is given or the candles are lit, "and I suppose you want sex now?" No, the husband wants love. He wants this expression of love that he has committed to keeping within the marriage.

 

First off, my wife is the one who farts in the marital bed. And that does not inhibit my sexual desires. And since when has the marriage vow excluded any changes in our partners...good or bad? So, when I gain weight or my wife gains weight, we are allowed to withhold love? I do understand what is meant here, and I agree. Men and women need to stay attractive for one another, but as many men and women can attest to here, this is not the magic pill. Having lost 20 pounds in the past year, I can say that this had nothing to do with my sex life, nor did it improve it....and no, I did not do it for that reason.

 

Afterward, they are left with a feeling of being used. Sex becomes something you "owe" instead of something you share.

 

And yet, they feel that they have been betrayed when the husband gets exasperated with jumping through oh so many hoops just for an expression of love....which should so freely be given. And then they wonder why he no longer feels close. What I never get is...if a woman desires candles and back rubs or lunch dates for her happiness in a marrige, then why would she not "reward" her husband with what HE ants in a marriage? If he feels thats sex is the way to validate his manhood or his love, then why would his wife not want to make him happy? Why make him jump through so many hoops to make her "in the mood?"

 

Tell him that he is a farter. Tell him that he needs to lose weight. Communicate with him. "Oh, but I do all of the time." DO you? Is he hearing you? The fact is in any communication, we may talk and say we communicated something, but if the intended receiver does not understand or hear us, then we have not truthfully communicated it to him properly.

 

..so they shut down even more so in the sexual department.

 

And yet, they feel betrayed if their husband becomes interested in another woman who simply enjoys sex and freely expresses that love with him.

 

NO, not all affairs happen for this reason, but so many do.

 

The fact is...marriage is a two way street. Simply shutting down in the sex department as a reaction to perceived problems or because all of the proper requirements are not met is the most damaging passive aggressive way a person can ruin his or her marriage.

[JamesM]

 

If my H's A yrs ago was because he wasn't getting any at home, I know for a fact that's a crock of sh*it.

 

I just think that being said, he strayed, and I forgave and he returned to our M. He now understands, our M isn't all about him getting a piece.

 

I do not know what caused your husband's affair. It could simply be that he strayed with no reason other than he chose to do so. This does happen, but in many cases, there is a reason that brings a person to the point of choosing an affair. And no, it is not always about sex. There could have been another reason that brought him to this point...or none at all.

 

While most BS like to think that they are completely innocent when their spouse strays, this is usually not the case. Marriage takes two.

 

Marriage is not about "getting a piece," but yet sex seems to be that one bargaining tool that makes or breaks a marriage. Bad marriages can have good sex, but it is rare that a good marriage has bad sex.

[NoIDidn't]

James

It really sounds like you are heading down the path of justifying affairs from a "needs" based place.

 

I disagree with you. Bent may be able to back me on this one because I am going to use my religious text. It says to agree to abstain for a period so that neither will become tempted or disheartened, but it doesn't say that sex is a requirement in the marriage.

 

Yet, I am going to contradict myself, it says it should be agreed upon. I know of couples that have abstained for 3 years willingly to work on the other areas of their coupleship. Or at least that's what they told me.

 

I guess what I am saying is, marriage is still marriage without sex. Whether a partner is deprived or not. I was once that deprived partner and never stepped out or even thought that I had a right to. And like OWoman says, I was literally a prisoner wanting what he would not give me. I know its the worse and it does damage a R when one wants it but the other adamantly doesn't.

 

I don't think that a friendship based marriage is as bad as a sexually based one. At least the friends have the option of being sexual. The sexual group may make it to friendship but a R based only on sex is not going to last very long.

 

Another thought then is that sex in a marriage has to reach a balance between the needs/wants of the two people in it. And just because one isn't wanting sex, I don't see that as a breaking of the vows. I don't recall saying anything about vowing to have sex with my H, but I did say "for better, or worse". And being sex deprived is certainly worst.

[marlena]

I do not know what caused your husband's affair. It could simply be that he strayed with no reason other than he chose to do so. This does happen, but in many cases, there is a reason that brings a person to the point of choosing an affair. And no, it is not always about sex. There could have been another reason that brought him to this point...or none at all.

 

 

 

I was in a bad marriage for 15 years that thank goodness ended up in divorce. I was emotionally and physically deprived for the last five years of that marriage. I often thought about having an affair, not for the sex per se, but for the emotional bond that I SO yearned to feel with someone. Emotions are expressed through physical touch. People need to be touched, caressed, embraced, kissed. This is what makes us human.

 

Bad marriages can have good sex, but it is rare that a good marriage has bad sex.

 

Exactly. There is sex ...and then again, there is sex. Not all sex is the same. Sex is as vital to a good marriage as is understanding, compassion,tolerance and patience.

[luvmy2ns]

I do not know what caused your husband's affair. It could simply be that he strayed with no reason other than he chose to do so. This does happen, but in many cases, there is a reason that brings a person to the point of choosing an affair. And no, it is not always about sex. There could have been another reason that brought him to this point...or none at all.

 

While most BS like to think that they are completely innocent when their spouse strays, this is usually not the case. Marriage takes two.

 

Marriage is not about "getting a piece," but yet sex seems to be that one bargaining tool that makes or breaks a marriage. Bad marriages can have good sex, but it is rare that a good marriage has bad sex.

 

I've talked about this guy on LS before, but here goes: He brags to anyone who cares to listen that he has the "perfect wife." She takes care of him (in all the ways you can imagine), the kids, the house, is beautiful... but he's a skanky whoremonger. He is constantly sniffing around for fresh meat. It's positively disgusting. So is his wife at fault ?

[White Flower]

Liz, you are too old to be believing everything these men tell you about their wives. We all know they lie for sex.

 

You should know that better than anyone.

 

And going back to the standard OW thought of "but he doesn't/wouldn't lie to me, he hasn't any reason"....we all know better than that also. We see it everyday at LS.

 

While we are at it, let's cover the standard OW thought of "but this/me/MM is different"...we know that is not the case either.

 

Again...we see it everyday here.

 

You may be ahead of the game some concerning your A's with MM...but you still carry the thought patterns of the average OW.

There is a popular saying, "confession is good for the soul". People, including men, really do want to pour their heart out to someone who will listen without judgement. MM wish they could do that with their wives, but if they can't they'll do that with the OW, priest, bartender, barber, or anyone who will listen.

 

This MM doesn't have to lie to Lizzie to get sex; he'd get it anyway.

 

Just because some men lie everyday doesn't mean all men lie or lie to everyone.

[White Flower]

LOL He wasn't. Guess he had a bad experience.

I have to say, I rather agree with him. And I'm M. lol

I should go and read all your posts because I am sincerely curious as to why you seem to not like sex. Btw, I do agree that marriage is not totally about sex, but feel it is important.

 

Have you any physical or psychological issues with sex that you can share with us?

[White Flower]

Because sex IS the expression of marriage that sets it apart from a great friendship. Without sex, husbands and wives become roommates and friends.

 

Wake up people. Affairs are usually the result of something and the symptom of something much greater than simply a man feeding his hunger for sex. While I think I have made it very clear that I am not in favor of affairs (or I would not be here), I also have a problem with people who seem to think that sex is somehow not linked to marital happiness. It may not be the only measurement of happiness, but it is certainly an important one.

People tend to forget that sex is the ACT of marriage. You're right about the sexless marriage being nothing more than a friendship. A lot of MM tend to feel that their Ws are more like sisters even and sex can become a chore, unfortunately. But I digress...

[White Flower]

 

 

OK I'm really struggling with this notion that people can love each other and not want to jump each other's bones. How does someone's libido just dry up? And surely if there's libido there, and someone you love, you make the connection?

Ohhhh, here it comes! It seems a lot of women have the libido problem and I would like to hear from them. I want to prevent that from ever happening to me, so please, please answer (to those who lost desire).

[White Flower]

 

Yes, there are many things a woman "needs" in order to have sex. She "may" need this or she "may" need that. Funny thing is...all of these maybes get kinda confusing and frustrating after awhile. And then when a back rub is given or the candles are lit, "and I suppose you want sex now?" No, the husband wants love. He wants this expression of love that he has committed to keeping within the marriage.

My H was one lucky man. I never got the candles or drawn bath and soft music. If I were to get this, I'd willingly be a sex slave.

[qoute=JamesM;1453641]

And yet, they feel that they have been betrayed when the husband gets exasperated with jumping through oh so many hoops just for an expression of love....which should so freely be given. And then they wonder why he no longer feels close. What I never get is...if a woman desires candles and back rubs or lunch dates for her happiness in a marrige, then why would she not "reward" her husband with what HE ants in a marriage? If he feels thats sex is the way to validate his manhood or his love, then why would his wife not want to make him happy? Why make him jump through so many hoops to make her "in the mood?"

 

James, have you thought of giving your wife any books on the subject of how a man expresses his love through sex? There is a really good one by John Gray called Mars and Venus in the Bedroom. It's short and a fun read. Your wife may learn about the reasons why a man needs sex from this book and seeing it from the psychological POV could help her change her actions in the matter.

[NoIDidn't]

Ohhhh, here it comes! It seems a lot of women have the libido problem and I would like to hear from them. I want to prevent that from ever happening to me, so please, please answer (to those who lost desire).

 

I agree. Lots of things cause it too. A low functioning thyroid. Hormonal changes and imbalances. Physical exhaustion from being a caretaker to many. And the stress that comes along with it. Its funny that stress makes most men want a sexual release, but it tends to make women want to sleep it off.

 

And sometimes it just the fact that their partner has taken them for granted and no longer treats them as "cherished" which IS a marriage vow for us traditionalists.

 

Sex is icing for the marriage, IMO. It is NOT the stuff of the marriage. That's why it is one of the first indicators that something is off in one or both of the partners.

 

Women are faulted for being frigid often by selfish men who use their bodies without regard for the woman's pleasure. There is nothing worst than having your SO ask you if you can skip foreplay tonight because he's too tired for it (or to please you, in translation).

 

Sex just seems to be the issue that no one can really agree on all the time. It does not make or break a R. What breaks it is the one putting pressure on the other for it. Then communication breaks down. Then the insults start. Then the resentment builds. Instead of working towards what can work sexually, there is always someone demanding what they want with no compromises. That's how sex gets blamed.

 

No one has ever died from lack of sex. Ever.

[NoIDidn't]

And yet, they feel that they have been betrayed when the husband gets exasperated with jumping through oh so many hoops just for an expression of love....which should so freely be given. And then they wonder why he no longer feels close. What I never get is...if a woman desires candles and back rubs or lunch dates for her happiness in a marrige, then why would she not "reward" her husband with what HE ants in a marriage? If he feels thats sex is the way to validate his manhood or his love, then why would his wife not want to make him happy?

 

It is exactly this attitude that earns a man a sexless marriage. What does "freely given" mean really? That you don't want to have to work at pleasing her to get her to please you? A woman's body is not a "reward", its a "gift". Is "free sex" the reason that men marry? If so, no wonder it gives women headaches.

 

Why make him jump through so many hoops to make her "in the mood?"

 

Biological differences. Any man that refuses in this department deserves what he doesn't get.

 

Can anyone tell that I am a little testy today? Trying to tone it down. Maybe I need some coffee. Hormonal spike or something. I AM pregnant you know.

[JamesM]

James

It really sounds like you are heading down the path of justifying affairs from a "needs" based place.

 

No, the road I am heading down is...cheating is done two ways: having extramarital sex or withholding sex while in a marriage.

 

I disagree with you. Bent may be able to back me on this one because I am going to use my religious text. It says to agree to abstain for a period so that neither will become tempted or disheartened, but it doesn't say that sex is a requirement in the marriage.

 

Let me quote the whole passage in 1 Corinthians 7 to which you are referring. I think it is very clear that sex is a part of marriage.

 

7:3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection owed her,

and likewise also the wife to her husband.

7:4 The wife doesn't have authority over her own body, but the husband.

Likewise also the husband doesn't have authority over his own body, but the wife.

7:5 Don't deprive one another, unless it is by consent for a season,

that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer, and may be together again,

that Satan doesn't tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

 

 

I don't think that a friendship based marriage is as bad as a sexually based one. At least the friends have the option of being sexual. The sexual group may make it to friendship but a R based only on sex is not going to last very long.

 

Marriage must be based on friendship but cannot exclude sexual intimacy if it is to survive...unless when both partners vowed commitment, they knew that sex was excluded.

 

Another thought then is that sex in a marriage has to reach a balance between the needs/wants of the two people in it. And just because one isn't wanting sex, I don't see that as a breaking of the vows. I don't recall saying anything about vowing to have sex with my H, but I did say "for better, or worse". And being sex deprived is certainly worst.

 

We agree on many points. What I don't agree with you on is that when one person decides FOR BOTH that marriage is somehow no longer necessary. Then we have a big problem. Again, if there is a physical reason or even a temporary emotional illness, then this is when the "for better or for worse" comes into play.

 

Also, if there are problems and strife within a marriage causing one not to feel loving and sexual, then this is another area that needs to be addressed. But the unfortunate thing is that many partners do not communicate why they no longer feel sexual to the other, and so the one who is not privy to that information becomes frustrated and angry.

 

Good marriages require communication and openness and honesty. Sex is an expression of the love between two people. It is an act that should be kept within the marriage. It is an act that should not be withheld in a marriage.

[JamesM]

It is exactly this attitude that earns a man a sexless marriage. What does "freely given" mean really? That you don't want to have to work at pleasing her to get her to please you? A woman's body is not a "reward"' date=' its a "gift". Is "free sex" the reason that men marry? If so, no wonder it gives women headaches.[/quote']

 

I agree...relax. On the other hand, this "gift" seems to come with many requirements. If I have to work at pleasing my wife, then sex does become a reward. And no, I did not marry for free sex. I did expect that sex would be enjoyed by both when both felt the love. Having sex less than once a month because..."well, you want it, so I will oblige" is not what I would call an expression of love.

 

Biological differences. Any man that refuses in this department deserves what he doesn't get.

 

Trust me, I know. And I can accept that. If a man asks for sex every day irrelevant of his wife's feelings, then he has a problem. But if a man has to fulfil many requirements and even then she is "not in the mood" once a week, then there is something wrong that is not being communicated.

 

 

Can anyone tell that I am a little testy today? Trying to tone it down. Maybe I need some coffee. Hormonal spike or something. I AM pregnant you know.

 

Sorry. I did just read recently that you were pregnant. Congratulations! Hope all goes well with the pregnancy.

[Cobra_X30]

Marriage is not about "getting a piece," but yet sex seems to be that one bargaining tool that makes or breaks a marriage. Bad marriages can have good sex, but it is rare that a good marriage has bad sex.

 

Well as I see it James, you are bieng too nice.

 

There comes a point where you have to stop saying please... stop jumping through hoops like a trained seal.

 

Demand what you want... if it doesnt come... leave. It's usually in that leaving part that I find women respond to best.

 

No woman will ever find you more attractive than the one you just dumped!

[EnigmaXOXO]

Good marriages require communication and openness and honesty. Sex is an expression of the love between two people. It is an act that should be kept within the marriage. It is an act that should not be withheld in a marriage.

 

I agree. I would also like to add that “affection” is also just as important as communication and the act of “sex” when it comes to expressing Love.

 

I feel REALLY lucky that I have a male partner who is physically affectionate and is comfortable ... even ENJOYS and initiates cuddling, hugging, holding hands and kissing on a constant basis without it always being a prerequisite to intercourse. It fills all the moments in between and keeps you intimately connected making the “sex” part all the better when it happens.

 

I think a lot of men sometimes forget that a slap on the butt and a boob grab at the kitchen sink doesn’t always constitute as foreplay. Nor does complaining or berating at inopportune moments. That’s the quick road to making a women feel like sex is a chore. Foreplay is something that should happen with MORE frequency than the act of sex and it’s the love you make outside your bedroom that makes it all the more rewarding inside the bedroom.

 

There’s a lot to be said for the perpetual tease right at home.

[NoIDidn't]

James,

 

I said I was testy. I haven't had that coffee yet.

 

So it seems we mostly agree, just I misread your "manspeak". LOL.

 

I didn't say that one person can decide for both concerning sex in the marriage. But that goes both ways as well. One can't decide that they want it all the time knowing their partner does not feel the same way.

 

I don't completely agree or disagree with the premise that the gift should be your reward for doing your part. Sometimes a woman just wants the affection, and should say so up front. What hurts is when the SO refuses that when he realizes he won't get the intercourse that he felt should go with it. Its a horrible cycle. And it doesn't have to be. And I know it goes both ways. The man who just wants a quickie, but the W wants foreplay and so refuses.

 

That's why I say balance is so important.

 

I was reading a report about mismatch libidos not being so mismatched afterall though. Just body rhythms can be different. As in, I might feel "in the mood" more often in the afternoon - but my H is at work then. And he may feel amorous at night - but after a long day of children and house/home/cook work I am too exhausted. It made sense. Some people have used this line of thinking to open up the possibilities for their sexlife.

 

This is a HUGE TJ, sorry guys. I gotta go get that coffee and a snack now.

[child_of_isis]

I think that is the whole point. She doesn't find him sexually attractive. I think that is the whole issue with women who no longer wants sex with their H.

 

It is just that simple. That being said... the reason behind the non attraction, could be quite complex.

 

And no offense to you, James, but your "she owes me" mentality comes across quite clearly in your posts. That in itself is enough to turn a woman off.

 

(Stealing from GEL)....you are focusing on the person instead of the problem.

 

 

No woman will ever find you more attractive than the one you just dumped!