How to reconcile personal happiness with...

[General Jack]

... the "greater good," of staying married. I just discovered this forum and it looks like it could be very helpful. So here's the story...

 

I'm 32, been married for 8 years and my wife and I have a 2 year old daughter. I feel like I'm at a crossroads in my life because I've had a steadily growing dissatisfaction with my marriage. It focuses primarily on emotional needs and sex life. I am one of what appears to be many married men whose wives have a lack of interest in sex. Our sex life consists of sex about once every two weeks with the theme being "lets get it over with" (she actually has said this - not any more after I told her that upset me). There is typically very little foreplay and oral sex is extremely rare. Its really not that much fun. Sex is basically an obligation - to her credit, she realizes that I should "get some" every once in a while - but I would much prefer it to be something that she is excited about and wants to do... Whats more, I never get to instigate it, I just have to wait until she's drunk on red wine and the requisite couple of weeks have passed so she either feels guilty or is scared that I'll seek it out elsewhere.

 

The other details... I love my wife, she is a great person - thoughtful, pretty astute, great mother. She does set very high expectations for herself and those that she loves - which is good and bad. She also has a pretty short temper (some cajun blood). She is also pretty attractive, not a knockout, but not bad. She gained a bunch of weight during the pregnancy but has lost most of it through working out, etc. She looks good, and I tell her that quite a bit. When we met, we had a pretty good sex life... but that's been 9 years ago now... I have told her in the past year (finally) that I don't think we have a very good sex life. That offends her, she says that most women don't like to have sex and thats just the way she is. She does say if I would romance her more, she might be more receptive - but honestly I think thats BS. Some women like to have sex, some don't. My wife doesn't.

 

Overall our life is very good. We don't have big financial stresses. Our health is good.

 

My daughter is a joy, she is a sweetheart and my little girl. She is 2 and has her moments, but she is perfect, happy, healthy, etc. Couldn't ask for anything more...

 

Part of my problem I think is that in popular culture we are just bombarded with sexual inuendo(sp?) and sexy, sex, me me me, etc. I see beautiful women everywhere, hear talk about sex all the time, and frankly, it makes me very bitter that I'm missing out on all of the fun. Doesn't help that my very attractive single sister in law tells me that she is a "very sexual person" and a very attractive staffer of mine tells me that "she loves to have sex." These girls like sex, why can't my wife?? Its not fair!

 

OK, to sound very selfish, I am now the most marketable I have ever been. I've recently put 20 pounds of primarily muscle on my trim/athletic frame, most women would say I'm fairly attractive, I'm a nice guy and come from a great home, I'm a good listener, and I make good money. I used to even be a great romantic, writing poetry etc. If I were single, I am confident that I would have a lot of fun dating - and have a much better sex life than I do currently.

 

I have not cheated on my wife other than a couple of kisses all of which were in a drunken state, and I'm 99.999% sure she hasn't cheated on me.

 

Both of us have parents in their original marriage, and our parents would be heartbroken if we got divorced. I don't want my daughter to have divorced parents.

 

However, I'm at the point a trying to determine whether or not I should consider separation or worse... and I can hardly believe that I would even consider it - but it just feels like the years will keep slipping away and I don't want to get more bitter and waste years of my life. So what it boils down to... am I just spoiled and selfish? I have it pretty well in most regards, its just passion and intimacy that are lacking. Unfortunately, other than food, shelter and safety, intimacy and passion are some of man's most primal needs! So at the end of the day, am I fair in wanting more personal happiness when it could come at the expense of others... or should I just suck it up and stick with the status quo?

[whichwayisup]

Tell your wife that the no sex thing is really upsetting you and that you two need to somehow get that passion and intimacy back. This isn't just about "sex" it's about the intimacy and feeling, sharing in bed. Get some marriage counselling in, maybe that will help both of you too.

 

Don't go kissing other women, especially when you're drunk, that's just asking for trouble and it's wrong. I mean, if you found out your wife was kissing other men, I'm sure you would be hurt and pissed off.

 

You have a right to feel the way you do, just like she has a right to feel the way she does - All I can say is, communicate and listen to eachother, and I mean really put yourself in her shoes, and ask her to put herself in your shoes - Maybe once you both 'understand' eachother that way, things will get better and more effort will be made to make the marriage better and be more intimate.

[reboot]

Get a copy of "His Needs/Her Needs" and read it together.

[General Jack]

I realize that counseling is an option... I actually mentioned it a couple of months ago and she treated that like an insult too. For better or for worse, my wife is very stubborn. I don't know whether counseling would work or not... any type of data on sucess rates? A big part of what has bothered me is that she seems very deadset on the position of "women don't like sex" and "times change, people grow up, we're not going to have fun like we used to."

 

I think part of what I'm curious to learn on this site is how much truth there is to those little anecdotes.

[addicted2love]

I say print out your post and make her read it!

 

I can only wish that my H had told me exactly what you've said here instead of having an A. A letter like that would have had my attention in a hot second!

[whichwayisup]

Both my husband and I have had our dry spells, there are times when he just isn't into it and then there are times I'm not into it. Recently our dry spell ended and we've been having some really good sex, early morning sex actually....

 

If you take a step back and try not to focus on the sex and how often you're not getting it, try to work on other parts of your marriage, like having fun together and enjoying eachothers company, the rest will just happen naturally. I mean, when was the last time you and your wife got dressed up, went out for a nice dinner. When was the last time you and your wife were laughing and silly together, just let loose and had some fun?

 

The other thing is, daily stressers. Kids, work, life, inlaws, family etc...What are the outside pressure cookers in your lives? How is her health? It could very well be that she has a thyroid problem or another small health issue that is affecting how she feels about sex. Counselling CAN help, if both of you are willing to go and be open minded...What one puts into therapy is what you get out of it.

[reboot]

A big part of what has bothered me is that she seems very deadset on the position of "women don't like sex" and "times change, people grow up, we're not going to have fun like we used to."

Excuses. Men and women both like sex. Women don't share the same drive that men do usually, and keeping them interested sometimes takes some work, but there's no good reason couples can't find a common ground if they both want to (IMHO).

[Kasan]

Well to be honest with you, there were times in my marriage when sex wasn't that important for me either and it had nothing to do with liking sex or times changing.

 

When I think back to the days that sex wasn't important to me was when the kids were young. Working, taking care of the kids, and housework put my husband number four on the list. Was it right and was it fair--most definitely not!

 

The kids got older and sex reappeared to the delight of my husband and myself! I didn't realize how much I missed it until it became a regular part of my life again.

 

Women are trained to be good multi-taskers, and are able to prioritize what we feel is important--unfortunately in a lot of cases we neglect our husbands and ourselves.

[whichwayisup]

That could be it too - She's not feeling very sexual and stuck in "mommy mode." This has nothing to do with you, it's something inside of her...

 

So, do the smaller things, not because it COULD lead you to sex, but because it's just a nice thing to do for your wife - Give her a backrub, a tickle, run a bath for her and make her feel good. In the long run that does help with intimacy...

[Frances]

... the "greater good," of staying married. I just discovered this forum and it looks like it could be very helpful. So here's the story...

 

 

She does say if I would romance her more, she might be more receptive - but honestly I think thats BS. Some women like to have sex, some don't. My wife doesn't.

 

It's not bs, women want romance. Romance does not have to be wine and dining. Just doing little things that please her. Making sure she is not tired out from looking after a two yo and hwork.

Having sex does not start in the bedroom ( anyway as your child is only two it does not have to be always in the bedroom.)

 

When did she stop wanting sex?

 

 

Part of my problem I think is that in popular culture we are just bombarded with sexual inuendo(sp?) and sexy, sex, me me me, etc. I see beautiful women everywhere, hear talk about sex all the time, and frankly, it makes me very bitter that I'm missing out on all of the fun. Doesn't help that my very attractive single sister in law tells me that she is a "very sexual person" and a very attractive staffer of mine tells me that "she loves to have sex." These girls like sex, why can't my wife?? Its not fair!

 

Believe half of what you see and very little of what you hear.

 

or should I just suck it up and stick with the status quo?

 

No you do not suck it up. You discuss it in a calm manner how you would like to have a better sex life, something like what you had before. Buy that book Mars and Venus in the Bedroom read it and ask your wife to read it, or just leave it around. She will get the message that sex means more to you and you are not unusual in this.

 

I was put off at times if my h was cranky with the kids or me over something stupid and then after he calms down expected me to be in a sexual mood later. No way.

[General Jack]

If you take a step back and try not to focus on the sex and how often you're not getting it, try to work on other parts of your marriage, like having fun together and enjoying eachothers company, the rest will just happen naturally. I mean, when was the last time you and your wife got dressed up, went out for a nice dinner. When was the last time you and your wife were laughing and silly together, just let loose and had some fun?

 

I'll admit, we don't do this as much as we should.

 

The other thing is, daily stressers. Kids, work, life, inlaws, family etc...What are the outside pressure cookers in your lives? How is her health? It could very well be that she has a thyroid problem or another small health issue that is affecting how she feels about sex. Counselling CAN help, if both of you are willing to go and be open minded...What one puts into therapy is what you get out of it.

 

Her daily stresser is our 2 year old daughter, who is actually a fairly well behaved and sweet 2 year old, but still a problem for my wife because of her ultra high expectations. For example, we are struggling with potty training, but making good progress. This is a continuous source of grief for my wife. She is a stay at home mommy and a very good mommy, almost too good - because she invests so much into her mothering that I'm left out of the equation! She did have a thyroid problem which we discovered a few years ago. It has been treated through daily meds and has had the side benefit of helping her to lose the weight. Otherwise, no big issues, family and in-laws are good, etc.

[General Jack]

When I think back to the days that sex wasn't important to me was when the kids were young. Working, taking care of the kids, and housework put my husband number four on the list. Was it right and was it fair--most definitely not!

 

The kids got older and sex reappeared to the delight of my husband and myself! I didn't realize how much I missed it until it became a regular part of my life again.

 

Women are trained to be good multi-taskers, and are able to prioritize what we feel is important--unfortunately in a lot of cases we neglect our husbands and ourselves.

 

There is ALOT of this at play... So how do I ride out the decade-long storm?

[General Jack]

That could be it too - She's not feeling very sexual and stuck in "mommy mode." This has nothing to do with you, it's something inside of her...

 

So, do the smaller things, not because it COULD lead you to sex, but because it's just a nice thing to do for your wife - Give her a backrub, a tickle, run a bath for her and make her feel good. In the long run that does help with intimacy...

 

I do some of that... but my impression is that she really just doesn't like sex. So I can invest the effort in doing these things more often, but it may not address the root of the problem.

[whichwayisup]

I'll admit, we don't do this as much as we should.

 

Then, start doing! Trust me, things WILL change in the sense of you making the extra effort for her. Just do nice little things that will melt her heart..Bring her home flowers, or a favour snack once in a while. As well as making special 'adult' time for eachother. Get a sitter, or ask a family member to babysit and go on a date night with your wife.

 

Her daily stresser is our 2 year old daughter, who is actually a fairly well behaved and sweet 2 year old, but still a problem for my wife because of her ultra high expectations. For example, we are struggling with potty training, but making good progress. This is a continuous source of grief for my wife. She is a stay at home mommy and a very good mommy, almost too good - because she invests so much into her mothering that I'm left out of the equation! She did have a thyroid problem which we discovered a few years ago. It has been treated through daily meds and has had the side benefit of helping her to lose the weight. Otherwise, no big issues, family and in-laws are good, etc

 

So, she doesn't have much of a life OUTSIDE of the house, she's stuck in mommy-mode...There is part of the problem, and yes, her having high expectations too.

[whichwayisup]

I do some of that... but my impression is that she really just doesn't like sex. So I can invest the effort in doing these things more often, but it may not address the root of the problem.

 

Just change your approach abit...If you are doing this SO you can get laid, it won't happen...If you do it because you know it will relax her and just make her feel happy, and she feels this from you, then maybe the timing will be right and she'll want to have sex.

 

There's nothing worse than mercy sex. Sure, it feels good to get off, but when you're having sex for the sake of pleasing other person and you're not into it, well, it hurts and actually makes the sex LESS enjoyable.

[General Jack]

No you do not suck it up. You discuss it in a calm manner how you would like to have a better sex life, something like what you had before. Buy that book Mars and Venus in the Bedroom read it and ask your wife to read it, or just leave it around. She will get the message that sex means more to you and you are not unusual in this.

 

I was put off at times if my h was cranky with the kids or me over something stupid and then after he calms down expected me to be in a sexual mood later. No way.

 

Her sexual appetite slowed down tremendously after we got married. I also carry some resentment because I've planned a couple of romantic outings (one to the beach, the other to a very nice hotel in town), but both times I was shot down. The beach because we weren't staying at the "right" place, the hotel, because she complained it was raining that day and we couldn't enjoy the city.

 

For a while, because of my upbringing, I was somewhat ashamed to admit to her that I wasn't happy with our sex life. However, I'm not keeping it built inside any longer... I have told her that I'm not really happy with it. She counters with "needing" more romance, but I truly believe the fact of the matter is that she just isn't interested, and invests too much effort in other aspects of her life to have any energy left for me.

[Frances]

 

 

Her daily stresser is our 2 year old daughter, who is actually a fairly well behaved and sweet 2 year old, but still a problem for my wife because of her ultra high expectations. For example, we are struggling with potty training, but making good progress. This is a continuous source of grief for my wife.

 

I have a lot of kids, potty trained the first early but after that took my mother-in-laws advice. Waited until nearly three depending which time of the year, easier in the warm weather. Had no problem then they were finished in less than two weeks night and day. Anyway that is only a side issue which will pass. Not a big deal unless you make it one.

 

Try the books that was mentioned and see to your sex life as that is important .

[whichwayisup]

The beach because we weren't staying at the "right" place, the hotel, because she complained it was raining that day and we couldn't enjoy the city.

 

She needs to loosen up and not be such a control freak and just go with the flow.

[Kasan]

I'll tell what really helped a lot. My husband got injured at work so was on Workmen's Comp for 5 weeks. He got to walk a mile in my shoes as he was left at home while I went off to work--he carted the kids all over, cooked, cleaned and finally got the message that I had been trying to give him. Now he was a man that always "helped" but he realized the difference between helping and doing.

 

He stopped complaining about the lack of sex and really pitched in--which took the pressure off me.

 

We also made an effort to go to lunch every Saturday (because luncheon specials were cheap) and we talked about everything. There at lunch I saw him as a man and not just daddy. I could appreciate the time away from the house, kids, dogs, and I really appreciated him.

 

Now the kids are grown and gone, but we still go to lunch every Saturday.

[General Jack]

She needs to loosen up and not be such a control freak and just go with the flow.

 

I agree... its just the way she is. She actually is a very good person at heart, just very difficult... so here I am trying to reconcile between my personal discontent, which largely manifests itself in the form of my sex life, and the greater good and/or status quo.

[General Jack]

I'll tell what really helped a lot. My husband got injured at work so was on Workmen's Comp for 5 weeks. He got to walk a mile in my shoes as he was left at home while I went off to work--he carted the kids all over, cooked, cleaned and finally got the message that I had been trying to give him. Now he was a man that always "helped" but he realized the difference between helping and doing.

 

He stopped complaining about the lack of sex and really pitched in--which took the pressure off me.

 

We also made an effort to go to lunch every Saturday (because luncheon specials were cheap) and we talked about everything. There at lunch I saw him as a man and not just daddy. I could appreciate the time away from the house, kids, dogs, and I really appreciated him.

 

Now the kids are grown and gone, but we still go to lunch every Saturday.

 

 

I help quite a bit around the house... I wash dishes a couple nights a week, and bathe and read to our daughter before bed a few other nights. Probably only 1-2 nights a week that I get to come home and just kick back from the outset. I also vacuum from time to time, yardwork, etc. I'm not perfect and I'm not a saint, but I'm certainly not a lazy bum of a husband who sits his butt on the couch and drinks beer every night.

 

To the second point, the lunch dates would be nice. The obstacle we face is lack of readily available baby sitters (no family in our town).

[Kasan]

I wasn't implying that you didn't help around the house. My husband helped around the house but was unaware of what really went on in the house day to day.

 

Call your local high school and talk to them. I am sure that they have a list of available baby sitters. Get their names and check their references.

[Frances]

For a while, because of my upbringing, I was somewhat ashamed to admit to her that I wasn't happy with our sex life. However, I'm not keeping it built inside any longer... I have told her that I'm not really happy with it. She counters with "needing" more romance, but I truly believe the fact of the matter is that she just isn't interested, and invests too much effort in other aspects of her life to have any energy left for me.

 

 

 

Is she taking her meds for the thyroid problem?

 

 

Try the book I mentioned and the one Reboot suggested

 

His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage by Willard F. Harley Jr. Check out Harley's other books for parents and you may get over to your wife how important sex is in a marriage and you may find alot to help you help you both.

 

The fact that you are looking to change things instead of just throwing in the towel should mean alot to her. Tell her you love her and you want a good marriage not a middling one that you just get along okay.

 

Life is not a rehersal.

 

You do not stop laughing when you are old, you get old when you stop laughing. I think the same goes for sex, use it or lose it.

[kerious1]

Do you remember the days you and two were dating? Those special moments which made you fall in love? It may help to recreate some of those times. =)

 

best wishes.

[General Jack]

I wasn't implying that you didn't help around the house. My husband helped around the house but was unaware of what really went on in the house day to day.

 

 

Sorry, didn't mean to make my response sound like a direct rebuttal.