Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Hello all, I'd love to get some insight to a something that really surprised me. While having a conversation over coffee with a coworker, we started chatting about our personal lives. We are both single and in our mid 50's. Upfront I'll tell you that I would never consider dating her because I have a very strong "no fishing off the company pier" policy. During the conversation I asked her if she was ever married. Her response was no, but that she had been in a 21 year relationship. When I asked her why they never married, she stated quite openly that he wouldn't leave his wife and family. I was surprised to say the least. This woman is intelligent, attractive and hard working with a good balance in life. My question is why would someone like this, aside from being in love with a MM, be the OW for this length of time?? Why wouldn't you end it after a few years if you didn't see it becoming more?? I appreciate any insight any of you may have.
OpenBook Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Because contrary to popular belief (in the male mind, anyway), it is much easier and far more fulfilling for a woman to live her life without having to "take care" of a man like a wife does. Your co-worker got what she needed from the relationship. And she claimed the helm of her own life at the same time. Did she express regret for the A??
american-woman Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Does your wife know you talk with this woman?
Author Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Because contrary to popular belief (in the male mind, anyway), it is much easier and far more fulfilling for a woman to live her life without having to "take care" of a man like a wife does. Your co-worker got what she needed from the relationship. And she claimed the helm of her own life at the same time. Did she express regret for the A?? Hi OB. When she stated this, I distinctly remember her averting her eyes and looking down. I also sensed a feeling of sadness coming from her, as if recalling bittersweet memories of moments in the relationship. I don't doubt she took what she needed from the relationship, but I don't think she got what she wanted.
OpenBook Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Hi OB. When she stated this, I distinctly remember her averting her eyes and looking down. I also sensed a feeling of sadness coming from her, as if recalling bittersweet memories of moments in the relationship. I don't doubt she took what she needed from the relationship, but I don't think she got what she wanted. Really?? I may be wrong then.
Author Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Does your wife know you talk with this woman? Huh?? Did you read my post?? I'm not married. But I gotta ask, if I was married, what would that have to do with talking with a coworker??
Author Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Really?? I may be wrong then. Good insight tho'. Also please understand I'm not making any moral judgment about her. I'm simply wondering how long do you wait?? How many holidays and vacations do you spend alone?? How many stolen moments do you endure where the MM goes home to his W and family?? I can understand falling in love with a MM or MW and having an affair. What I'm trying to come to an understanding about is why you would stay in that limbo state for over 2 decades?? At some point don't you treat yourself better than that, get off the emotional rollercoaster and cut your losses??
Lyssa Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Huh?? Did you read my post?? I'm not married. But I gotta ask, if I was married, what would that have to do with talking with a coworker?? Yeah... made me wonder about that. I didn't know married (not that you are, Tripper) people are not allowed to talk to other people. Good insight tho'. Also please understand I'm not making any moral judgment about her. I'm simply wondering how long do you wait?? How many holidays and vacations do you spend alone?? How many stolen moments do you endure where the MM goes home to his W and family?? I can understand falling in love with a MM or MW and having an affair. What I'm trying to come to an understanding about is why you would stay in that limbo state for over 2 decades?? At some point don't you treat yourself better than that, get off the emotional rollercoaster and cut your losses?? That is pretty scary. I can't imagine myself being with a MM for 21 years! Is she still waiting or did she make peace with the whole situation and decided that she's happy with the way it is now? I can't imagine anyone being truly happy in an arrangement like this.
american-woman Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Huh?? Did you read my post?? I'm not married. But I gotta ask, if I was married, what would that have to do with talking with a coworker?? Im sorry I misread your post.
Lizzie60 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Hope... HOPE was her only motive.. I think. I was an OW for 11 yrs before his W finally booted him out... I was madly in love with him then... and I was emotionnally 'handicapped'. I fell hard for the first man that even 'looked' at me and paid attention to me... I was 15. He was in my mind 24/7. So my guess is that she probably 'sacrificed' her whole life waiting for a man. Sad... if that's the case. Now, it's different, I could go out with a MM for that length of time, cause I don't want anyone in my life... it would suit me very well.. now. In fact, that's what I'm doing.
noforgiveness Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Because contrary to popular belief (in the male mind, anyway), it is much easier and far more fulfilling for a woman to live her life without having to "take care" of a man like a wife does. Your co-worker got what she needed from the relationship. And she claimed the helm of her own life at the same time. Did she express regret for the A?? :laugh:You actually think it is more fullfilling to live in the shadows? To have a relationship you can't tell anyone about? that's fullfillment to you? Gosh you must be easily pleased.
Author Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Yeah... made me wonder about that. I didn't know married (not that you are, Tripper) people are not allowed to talk to other people. That is pretty scary. I can't imagine myself being with a MM for 21 years! Is she still waiting or did she make peace with the whole situation and decided that she's happy with the way it is now? I can't imagine anyone being truly happy in an arrangement like this. Ultimately she ended it and moved forward. Whenever we chat, I sense she has made peace with herself. When you think about it, L, you can't undo the past; it's gone forever.. you can't see into the future.. you can only live today to it's fullest.
Lyssa Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Ultimately she ended it and moved forward. Whenever we chat, I sense she has made peace with herself. When you think about it, L, you can't undo the past; it's gone forever.. you can't see into the future.. you can only live today to it's fullest. Oh gee whizz! I am having a lot of things on my mind! I didn't realise it was in her past. I'm glad she has moved on! But I would like to get married at least once in my lifetime... Right - we can't undo the past - don't we all wish we could!! It's a good thing she has moved on and she's only in her 50's - there is still time to find a man and if that's not what she wants right now, even better - not all women are cut out to be with a man for the rest of her life!
Author Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 So my guess is that she probably 'sacrificed' her whole life waiting for a man. Sad... if that's the case. Now, it's different, I could go out with a MM for that length of time, cause I don't want anyone in my life... it would suit me very well.. now. In fact, that's what I'm doing. You actually think it is more fullfilling to live in the shadows? To have a relationship you can't tell anyone about? that's fullfillment to you? Gosh you must be easily pleased. Not trying to take things out of context but these 2 quotes struck me as being obverse sides of a coin in a way. It really depends on where you are in your life. I was married for 23 years and would never have thought about having a being involved with a MW or in an affair. Post divorce and 8 years later, having done the work and matured, I can understand Lizzie's point of view. You can stand alone, not needing anyone in your life and be very selective as to who you want to let into your life and on what terms. If a MOP fills the want, then so be it... In the case of my coworker, over the two decades, she transitioned into a different frame of mind. Today she is still single and happy.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Huh?? Did you read my post?? I'm not married. But I gotta ask, if I was married, what would that have to do with talking with a coworker?? Some people are just programmed with one track mind make no bones about it Tripper! the second part I bolde is SO TRUE! I have to agree with OB though you say she feels nostalgic by her choices but I think it may have been a good run of that. I know women in their 50's and up who would not dream of getting married again, it is too much work and would not trade in their freedom/space to work at catering to a man, for their life.
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Because contrary to popular belief (in the male mind, anyway), it is much easier and far more fulfilling for a woman to live her life without having to "take care" of a man like a wife does.OB, it makes me sad to think what kind of men you've had in your life if you really mean this. I think sometimes you say things just to see the reaction, so I'm not sure. Aside from my mother when I was very young, no woman has ever "taken care" of me.
Lyssa Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Some people are just programmed with one track mind make no bones about it Tripper! the second part I bolde is SO TRUE! I have to agree with OB though you say she feels nostalgic by her choices but I think it may have been a good run of that. I know women in their 50's and up who would not dream of getting married again, it is too much work and would not trade in their freedom/space to work at catering to a man, for their life. TC!!! :love: My aunt gave up on Ms years ago. She said she's better off alone - I think that stems from her first M that didn't work out for long.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 OB, it makes me sad to think what kind of men you've had in your life if you really mean this. I think sometimes you say things just to see the reaction, so I'm not sure. Aside from my mother when I was very young, no woman has ever "taken care" of me. I guess what these women mean, or the women I have spokend to, is that they like the idea of dating a man and having love in their life but don't want to go down the path of having to cook, clean, and cater to a man day in day out. I know it's hard to hear for some men, but you have to understand that these are women that come from a generation perhaps of older values in what a marriage is supposed to be. Now a days young couples share everything all the duties and Mr Moms or Anthony Buttler is more common than it was for the women that say this, their roles of housewives and the man "bread winner" were more defined and not to mention they like the freedom of being able to retreat to their own quarters and be alone when they feel like it. It's not THAT bad what they are saying. I hear my mother for instance say stuff like "I am so tired of making dinner every single night, I don't want to have to do it anymore I've run out of ideas and energy for it...if it were up to me I would not even eat dinner anymore" And I say to her "but mom you don't HAVE to do that, dad's cool about it if you don't feel like cooking" and her response is "yes I do" It's this engrained sense of duty that she puts in her head that there is not convincing her otherwise...and some women do this to themselves so when faced with the idea that they can break free from that and still have the benefit of being with someone as a companion they eat it all up...no pun intended.
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I guess my house is dysfunctional then, 'cause I do more than my share of the household duties. And we aren't a "young couple". Most of my married friends are the same way. Are there really that many neanderthal men still out there?
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I guess my house is dysfunctional then, 'cause I do more than my share of the household duties. And we aren't a "young couple". Most of my married friends are the same way. Are there really that many neanderthal men still out there? yeah but Reboot you are also not in your 60s or late 50s, are you? Men are forced to do both now a days because both partners work outside of the home. Heck I know some couples where the wife works outside of the home, and so does the man and the grandparents take care of the kids and when the husband comes home he is STILL expected to be the one to make dinner because she is drained from work. And HE does manual labour where as she sits at her desk all day. I tell you men have been re-programmed that's for sure! Hey hey my dad's no neanderthal and he helps my mum around the house and even makes dinner BUT the typical defined role is my dad works my mum takes care of the home/children when we were young...different mentality back then and some of the women from that generation are exhausted by the end of it, as much as they loved catering to their loved ones it is draining to be the main person who caters to everyone's needs...now a days men are more like you because women put up with less and they work harder outside the home and demand more from their partners so the tasks are shared. but when a woman spends her life catering to her loved one's needs at the end of the rope they feel like if they want to be catered to for a change. and when you live alone and date a man you get the best of both worlds you don't have to worry about his well being when he is not around, and you get to enjoy him when you are around. I dunnow...sometimes I think marriages/relationships would have a better success rate if people lived in seperate homes
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Ok, I thought when you said "young" you meant 20s 30s. Never mind.
Cobra_X30 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 My question is why would someone like this, aside from being in love with a MM, be the OW for this length of time?? Why wouldn't you end it after a few years if you didn't see it becoming more?? I appreciate any insight any of you may have. I'm not sure anyone has brought this up yet. This correlates directly to self value. That is what she felt she deserved. More than likely he provided a great opportunity to increase her self-esteem. That never panned out as she hoped... so eventually she had to fix the issue on her own.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Ok, I thought when you said "young" you meant 20s 30s. Never mind. 40's is the new black....no wait 40's is the new 30's....brown is the new black.
Author Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 I guess what these women mean, or the women I have spokend to, is that they like the idea of dating a man and having love in their life but don't want to go down the path of having to cook, clean, and cater to a man day in day out. I know it's hard to hear for some men, but you have to understand that these are women that come from a generation perhaps of older values in what a marriage is supposed to be. It's this engrained sense of duty that she puts in her head that there is not convincing her otherwise...and some women do this to themselves so when faced with the idea that they can break free from that and still have the benefit of being with someone as a companion they eat it all up...no pun intended. Good points all. If I can add to this to clarify. I was born in the early '50's of immigrant parents and married in the mid '70's. The only behaviour I learned was that mothers stayed at home and maybe worked part time to supplement the family income and fathers were the breadwinners. Yep, we were sold the dream of Leave it to Beaver. My family was dysfunctional, my mother hated my father and the house was filled with yelling everyday. Not to mention the occasional plate of food tossed to the ceiling. But they stayed together for 45 years. Why?? Women in those days didn't have the choices they do today. Very few were educated beyond high school. They were slated to be "the girls at the office"; typists, nurses, secretaries.. If they left the marriage and took the kids they lived a life of near poverty and had the stigma of divorce. It wasn't until the '70's that much of this changed as women began to take more control of their own lives ie: the Pill, ability to go to University etc... During my marriage of 23 years, we role played as expected. My W did all the housework and I did all the yard work, house maintenance, repairs etc and was the major bread winner... What do you expect?? That's all we knew. Post divorce, 2 years of therapy and 8 years of being single I see things differently having reinvented myself. I'm currently in a LTR with the most amazing woman and both to our surprise are talking marriage (neither one of us thought we would go down this road again). In discussion about how it would work I stated that all work has to be shared and finished at the same time so that neither one of us felt overwhelmed and we both had time together and for ourselves to enjoy this stage of our lives. Total agreement from her. We both have careers and are looking to retirement in the next 5 to 8 years. It's not that there are more EMA today than there were 2 generations ago, (skeleton's in my families closet), failed marriages leading to a 50% divorce rate are only showing up because women today can make their own way in the world economically and make that choice. And married men better help around the house because in most cases women are pursuing their own careers.
Author Tripper Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 I'm not sure anyone has brought this up yet. This correlates directly to self value. That is what she felt she deserved. More than likely he provided a great opportunity to increase her self-esteem. That never panned out as she hoped... so eventually she had to fix the issue on her own. Hi Cobra, yeah I think you've hit on a big part of it. I thought of that later. She mentioned in a later conversation that she had lost a lot of weight and kept it off. I connected those 2 dots figuring she may have had self esteem issues. I didn't want to pry as she volunteered all this info and I took it to mean it was told to me in confidence.
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