Florida Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Here is my humble opinion. If your too selfish to have kids... that's fine, but please, please, please get into some kind of therapy, because I'm tired of having to work around all the self absorbed career women/men. If you know you are going to make a crappy parent... it's probably because you are a crappy person. Go fix that! You dont need to have kids... Actually we have an overpopulation problem as is. Parenting should be a privelage not a right. Ok, I apologize for the short rant. I just have to work with some bitter career women and they drive me up the wall. There are so many things being said here- I see the part about don't have kids if you'll be a crappy parent-okay-agreed. But then it sounds like you may be saying being into a career and not wanting children is the cause of the annoying self absorbed people around you. And I have to respectfully disagree, as I see no cause and effect between not wanting kids, for various reasons, and being annoyingly self absorbed or bitter. I get the feeling you summarized a lot of points so I don't mean to sound accusatory! Personally speaking- I am not so well off financially, so having a child to me means I would have to accept being totally financially dependent on my (future) husband, for support of the family-which is a scary prospect for me. So it makes me rethink my position. Wealth is related to having children, I would want to give them many good choices, not say "you're 18-get out! Good luck! I hope that does not make me an absorbed bitter career woman!
Trialbyfire Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I dunno. As an adult who survived child abuse and has grown up and gone through therapy in order to develop an adult relationship with their abusive parent I wouldn't necessarily say all abusive parents need to be lined up and shot. IME, just my experience mind you, my parent was abusive because she had issues of her own that needed to be attended to. The funny thing was that even as a child I was aware of this and in many cases I forgave her even while she was hurting me, knowing that she was a flawed woman who was too afraid to face her own internal demons. I feel compassion and pity for abusive parents. You and I differ on this point. My parents are fantastic and have provided the pattern that I will generally raise my child/children with. While you won't pattern your parenting in the manner that you were raised, too many do, because they repeat the abusive cycle due to not addressing their personal issues. If you read a number of the posts on LS, many of the adults that post, still blame their parents for everything. It's a two-fold issue. Their parents should never have been parents and sooner or later, each person has to grow up and stop blaming their parents.
Cobra_X30 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Whoah Cobra, that's a load of what-what. I agree that parenting should be a priviledge but not wanting any, doesn't mean you need to get issues fixed. It's okay to be childless, male or female. Well to be honest... everything I said was directed to those who are too self absorbed to be good parents! Didnt say anything about childless people in general. I've met some nice poeple who dont. There are so many things being said here- I see the part about don't have kids if you'll be a crappy parent-okay-agreed. But then it sounds like you may be saying being into a career and not wanting children is the cause of the annoying self absorbed people around you. And I have to respectfully disagree, as I see no cause and effect between not wanting kids, for various reasons, and being annoyingly self absorbed or bitter. I get the feeling you summarized a lot of points so I don't mean to sound accusatory! Personally speaking- I am not so well off financially, so having a child to me means I would have to accept being totally financially dependent on my (future) husband, for support of the family-which is a scary prospect for me. So it makes me rethink my position. Wealth is related to having children, I would want to give them many good choices, not say "you're 18-get out! Good luck! What part of this could even begin to be viewed as self absorbed! You dont want to have kids because you dont feel that you can provide for them! Thats not selfish at all. I'm not really going to get into it... but believe me when I say, there are more than a few people out there who dont want kids, because they cant take the focus of thier lives off themselves. I work with a few... and dealing with them is absolute misery! Hey Hey now... I'm not too selfish to have kids. Why does it become a matter of selfishness,over a matter of personal choice? And I do not believe I need therapy. I don't even have a "power career" to be a self absorbed career person. I also dont think I'd make a crappy parent. Matter of fact, I think I'd be pretty good at it. I just DONT WANT to! I just like my life free of the burden of children. I can travel to exotic destinations, go out on dates with my boyfriend and stay out all night, not worrying about the kids or the baby sitter. IMO, its people like you who are jealous of the childless because you yourself are regretting your decision to have kids. It is a personal choice. I'm telling you that not all reasons for making that personal choice are created equal! Besides... I don't have kids! So, I'm definitly not jealous of your "lifestyle". Ever notice that people who have kids relate better to each other? Well people who dont have kids do the same. Based on what I have to deal with on a fairly regular basis... your not going to be in good company. I hope it's different where you live!
Florida Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Poor Coby getting all attacked by entering the den of women ! I can see TBF, cairodancer, KA, myself and all the others on this thread-We're all sitting with our bear fur clothing gnawing on dinosaur meat, clubs by our feet in the flickering cave light! haha I make myself laugh! Don't worry it's just a joke, internet humor never really works, does it?
Trialbyfire Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Nah Florida. I'm far more civilized than that. I prefer guns and knives.
Author nashua Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 Well to be honest... everything I said was directed to those who are too self absorbed to be good parents! Didnt say anything about childless people in general. I've met some nice poeple who dont. What part of this could even begin to be viewed as self absorbed! You dont want to have kids because you dont feel that you can provide for them! Thats not selfish at all. I'm not really going to get into it... but believe me when I say, there are more than a few people out there who dont want kids, because they cant take the focus of thier lives off themselves. I work with a few... and dealing with them is absolute misery! It is a personal choice. I'm telling you that not all reasons for making that personal choice are created equal! Besides... I don't have kids! So, I'm definitly not jealous of your "lifestyle". Ever notice that people who have kids relate better to each other? Well people who dont have kids do the same. Based on what I have to deal with on a fairly regular basis... your not going to be in good company. I hope it's different where you live! Hi Cobra. I didnt meant to disrespect you, and my apologies for assuming you had kids. i just thought your posting was a bit to generalized thats all. i have noticed that people without kids do get along better with each other, and vice versa... We just dont have babies to talk about all day and all night. My bro just had a baby, and I swear its ALL he and his wife talk about. I actually feel kinda bad for them. They have no life other than "ooh, baby pooped, ohh, baby feeding time, ohh, baby crawling...I guess to the non parents, we find it boring. Atleast I do. I could care less what the baby's favorite toy is, and how many times she woke in the night. Being the aunt of a newborn really makes me less likely to have kids because I see how much of your life disappears. It used to tkae my bro about 20 minutes to drive to my house. Now it takes over ana hour for them to load the car, get the baby in, make sure they have all the baby stuff....it sure sounds unappealing to me.
MissMaris Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I laugh at my friends who swore they never wanted kids but ended up having them. Some have even become stay at home mothers, something else they swore they would never do. Your body does and will attempt to dictate that it's time to breed. If you're in a secure relationship, you might be surprised at how easy it is to change your mind about kids. As for myself, I've always wanted kids and will at least have one, with or without a partner. That's an interesting point of view because I've heard it all my life, "When you find the right one, you'll want children" Well, I had the 'right' one and were in a long term relationship. Niether of us wanted kids. Never once did either of us feel differently about that. My body is not interested in 'breeding'! Trust me. The sexual urge is a very powerful one, but the urge to 'parent' is either there or it isn't. I have no urge to be a mom. I'm 41 so the 'wait until you're older' thing doesn't apply. I have mom friends and I like their kids plenty. Just glad to see them go home at the end of the day! One of my friends who has two kids once told me that if she could do it over, she would have just been the aunt. Parenting is very difficult and not everyone wants to tackle it.
Cobra_X30 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I can see TBF, cairodancer, KA, myself and all the others on this thread-We're all sitting with our bear fur clothing gnawing on dinosaur meat, clubs by our feet in the flickering cave light! haha I make myself laugh! Don't worry it's just a joke, internet humor never really works, does it? LOL... that is funny! Nah Florida. I'm far more civilized than that. I prefer guns and knives. The cave, Bear fur, and Dinomeat are all pretty accurate though! We just dont have babies to talk about all day and all night. My bro just had a baby, and I swear its ALL he and his wife talk about. I actually feel kinda bad for them. They have no life other than "ooh, baby pooped, ohh, baby feeding time, ohh, baby crawling...I guess to the non parents, we find it boring. Atleast I do. I could care less what the baby's favorite toy is, and how many times she woke in the night. Being the aunt of a newborn really makes me less likely to have kids because I see how much of your life disappears. It used to tkae my bro about 20 minutes to drive to my house. Now it takes over ana hour for them to load the car, get the baby in, make sure they have all the baby stuff....it sure sounds unappealing to me. I try to keep posts short. I was really just ranting a bit about a specific group of people! Don't look down on people with kids! It gives a different meaning to thier lives, and different does not equal bad. My overall point is that people like you and I who dont have kids... we should be more than willing to help those in our lives that do! That means babysitting for your brother when he needs it... ect. I dont think that choosing not to have kids provides us license to selfishly persue our own interests only. We need to make sure that we put effort into making our communities better... because we have the time and the resources free!
MissMaris Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Here is my humble opinion. If your too selfish to have kids... that's fine, but please, please, please get into some kind of therapy, because I'm tired of having to work around all the self absorbed career women/men. If you know you are going to make a crappy parent... it's probably because you are a crappy person. Go fix that! You dont need to have kids... Actually we have an overpopulation problem as is. Parenting should be a privelage not a right. Ok, I apologize for the short rant. I just have to work with some bitter career women and they drive me up the wall. "Too selfish to have kids" ??? Please. Having kids is far from 'unselfish' People have kids because; 1. They want their DNA to go on 2. They want someone to take care of them when they're old 3. They want to fit in 4. They want to please their parents by giving them grandchildren 5. They want to feel that their life has some meaning 6. Some women have admitted to me, "I had kids so I had an excuse to quit working" Sure, there are exceptions. But I've seen plenty of selfish parents. So give me a break!
Author nashua Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 "Too selfish to have kids" ??? Please. Having kids is far from 'unselfish' People have kids because; 1. They want their DNA to go on 2. They want someone to take care of them when they're old 3. They want to fit in 4. They want to please their parents by giving them grandchildren 5. They want to feel that their life has some meaning 6. Some women have admitted to me, "I had kids so I had an excuse to quit working" Sure, there are exceptions. But I've seen plenty of selfish parents. So give me a break! I agree to this! my mother actually said to me, "what are you going to do when you're 50 and have noone to care for you?" I replied by asking...."so you think i should have kids so i'm not alone at 50?" and she said "Absolutely" I think my mother was off her rocker! Talk about being selfish. it seems like she only wants me to have babies so she can have more grandkids (she already has 3)
allina Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 "Too selfish to have kids" ??? Please. Having kids is far from 'unselfish' People have kids because; 1. They want their DNA to go on 2. They want someone to take care of them when they're old 3. They want to fit in 4. They want to please their parents by giving them grandchildren 5. They want to feel that their life has some meaning 6. Some women have admitted to me, "I had kids so I had an excuse to quit working" Sure, there are exceptions. But I've seen plenty of selfish parents. So give me a break! I agree with the above. Also I wanted to point something out. In the past when I mentioned not wanting to have children people have gotten super angry and responded with "well too bad your parents didn't feel the same!" To me this is a psychotic and irrelevant response. I never said that people should not have kids, I simply stated that my choice is not to have them, what does that have with my parents choosing to have a child? My reasons for not wanting children is mainly that I dislike children and feel zero desire to have one.
Trialbyfire Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 That's an interesting point of view because I've heard it all my life, "When you find the right one, you'll want children" Well, I had the 'right' one and were in a long term relationship. Niether of us wanted kids. Never once did either of us feel differently about that. My body is not interested in 'breeding'! Trust me. The sexual urge is a very powerful one, but the urge to 'parent' is either there or it isn't. I have no urge to be a mom. I'm 41 so the 'wait until you're older' thing doesn't apply. I have mom friends and I like their kids plenty. Just glad to see them go home at the end of the day! One of my friends who has two kids once told me that if she could do it over, she would have just been the aunt. Parenting is very difficult and not everyone wants to tackle it. Some people don't feel the need to breed and if so, most definitely, better that you don't. Kids need to be wanted and treasured.
Author nashua Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 I agree with the above. Also I wanted to point something out. In the past when I mentioned not wanting to have children people have gotten super angry and responded with "well too bad your parents didn't feel the same!" To me this is a psychotic and irrelevant response. I never said that people should not have kids, I simply stated that my choice is not to have them, what does that have with my parents choosing to have a child? My reasons for not wanting children is mainly that I dislike children and feel zero desire to have one. i know! whats up with others getting angry for our decision to not procreate? We non mothering types really have to defend ourself when we tell others our choice to not have babies. People tend to not take you seriously, think you need to settle down, and disrespect our choice to not have kids. Why is that? How can we, as women who choose not to have kids, spread the word that it is not only okay to feel that way, but to embrace your life. There's a book i've been meaning to get called "baby not on board. A celebration of life without kids" Anyone ever read it?
Trialbyfire Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 i know! whats up with others getting angry for our decision to not procreate? We non mothering types really have to defend ourself when we tell others our choice to not have babies. People tend to not take you seriously, think you need to settle down, and disrespect our choice to not have kids. Why is that? How can we, as women who choose not to have kids, spread the word that it is not only okay to feel that way, but to embrace your life. There's a book i've been meaning to get called "baby not on board. A celebration of life without kids" Anyone ever read it? Where's the anger? There's no anger in any of the posts beyond a touch of ranting about bad parents. If you don't want kids, please, please don't have them.
Author nashua Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 I was responding to the quote by Allina...but in my experience, it seems people tend to get a bit angry or defensive when I tell them I'm not interested in having kids.
allina Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Where's the anger? There's no anger in any of the posts beyond a touch of ranting about bad parents. If you don't want kids, please, please don't have them. I wasn't talking about anger in this thread. I was talking about what I have experienced in the past by stating that I don't want children. And it's not like I went up to a pregnant woman with 2 other small children on her side and said "sucks to be you!" I've responded to people asking my thoughts on kids by saying I didn't plan on having any and they got super angry/rude.
Florida Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I've noticed that too, there is this moment of eye widening and-well-suspiciousness! I can't decide if I don't want one, or it's because I am afraid of having a child out in the world who could be maimed, murdered or raped and I can't do anything about it if it was to happen. The early years are the vulnerable years, and I would want to be with them everywhere-therefore I could see myself as the overprotective mother who ruins her child's life. But yes-I have much fear around the thought of having children over all.
LoveLace Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 ALL of my friends have kids...the kids are great and so are the friends...but I HATE it when I'm the only single chick, while the rest sit there and exchange stories about their kids and husbands, all I can do is nod and smile, have nothing to contribute, can't say I understand, and no one is asking me about MY life...I don't think they understand how out of place it makes me feel (weather I want kids or not). It's like you know, they talk to each other about this sh*t all of the time, why can't they cool it a bit while I'm there for once? But I guess maybe it's all they have to talk about, since it fills up their lives... AND all of the "parties" I get invited to turn out to be "couples" gatherings...Not their fault if I feel out of place, again, OMG drives me nuts...that's off the thread sorry...
Florida Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Married people tend to talk about the wedding and married life, parents only talk about their kids diaper and sleep cycles, singles only talk about funny dating stories and careers plus outside interests maybe, couples are like singles except substitute dating stories for communication issues. When I'm around parents I accept they don't care to know too much about my outside life, it must seem so trivial to them as they have a little human to tend to, I imagine. It is like different planets, honestly. That's why people start making friends based on where they are in that spectrum for full compatability. Ever noticed how the marrrieds don't stay friends with the singles so much? And vice versa?
sb129 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Parenting should be a privelage not a right. . This is true. Parenting is a personal choice, and I respect that people may or may not want to make that choice. There are millions of people all over the world who have kids for the wrong reasons (some of which are listed above). It must be very tough for the thousands of parents out there who WANT children but can't have them. They are the ones who I feel really sorry for- the ones who have the choice taken away from them. Personally, I am one of the ones who has changed their mind about having kids now that I have got the career established, and met the right person. I really do want them, lthough having said that sometimes the idea of it still scares the shyt out of me. My career isn't anywhere near as 'fulfilling' as I thought it would be, and I don't have any desire to get another one at this stage of my life. I love my fiance very much, and I hope we will be good parents. I know that he will be great at it. I respect the people that don't want them, and envy them in many ways that they are so certain. Its one of those decisions that requires a degree of conviction really, because on the one hand, changing your mind at the wrong time may mean you miss out anyway, on the other- you can't send kids back if you aren't satisfied with the merchandise....
Trialbyfire Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I wasn't talking about anger in this thread. I was talking about what I have experienced in the past by stating that I don't want children. And it's not like I went up to a pregnant woman with 2 other small children on her side and said "sucks to be you!" I've responded to people asking my thoughts on kids by saying I didn't plan on having any and they got super angry/rude. I would say it to a pregnant woman with two little ones in tow. Diaper duty would be incredible. Kind of unrealistic, in my mind.
blind_otter Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I would say it to a pregnant woman with two little ones in tow. Diaper duty would be incredible. Kind of unrealistic, in my mind. Hah, both my older sisters have 3 kids under the age of 7. One of them had twins and then about 2 years later had another little one. I always say that they sort of lost their minds and never came back to sanity. I suppose to have a bunch of little ones all at once you DO have to be mildly insane. One is enough for me, thanks.
Florida Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 you can't send kids back if you aren't satisfied with the merchandise.... Oh my that just put a disturbing visual in my head!
LoveLace Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Married people tend to talk about the wedding and married life, parents only talk about their kids diaper and sleep cycles, singles only talk about funny dating stories and careers plus outside interests maybe, couples are like singles except substitute dating stories for communication issues. When I'm around parents I accept they don't care to know too much about my outside life, it must seem so trivial to them as they have a little human to tend to, I imagine. It is like different planets, honestly. That's why people start making friends based on where they are in that spectrum for full compatability. Ever noticed how the marrrieds don't stay friends with the singles so much? And vice versa? Your right Florida. Maybe I'm just jealous because all the couples have each other, but the pool of single friends is shrinking rapidly, while their group only grows. It starts make me feel like something's wrong with me for being so behind...it's humiliating when I introduce a new BF I'm excited about only for them hear the rumor a month later that I've yet lost another one. I know FOUR pregnant couples right now on their SECOND kid....not only can I not relate anymore, it throws off any social opportunities with them...by the time their kids are old enough to leave home alone they'll all be out together having fun, while I'm stuck at home because I just started breast-feeding. Ugh! They have each other, I'll have no one, not even a man at the rate I'm going....saddens me!
Trialbyfire Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Hah, both my older sisters have 3 kids under the age of 7. One of them had twins and then about 2 years later had another little one. I always say that they sort of lost their minds and never came back to sanity. I suppose to have a bunch of little ones all at once you DO have to be mildly insane. One is enough for me, thanks. Give your sisters my condolences. Your body never has the time to recover from being pregnant, which isn't fair to the ones that come after the first or to yourself. Also, you run around like nutcase, taking care of all their needs. I don't think one person has enough energy to focus on everything.
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