trying to sort this out

[rippedup]

So, here's my deal.

 

Basically, a year ago my wife of 15 years decided she needed to separate from me. We have two wonderful children, 8 and 11, who we both are very committed to. Making a long story short, it was a midlife crisis gone over the edge a bit. She hated where we lived, the stay at home mom stuff, etc. Also, the previous year she had fallen into an emotional affair with someone who she met through her hobby. She said she never got physical with him, but admitted to me she had fallen in love with him. My female friends say I'm crazy to believe her. Many of my friends say I'm crazy to still be in this thing, considering what she has put me through (especially considering the time she spent with this man, which many people sort of observed from afar with raised eyebrows).

 

She also raised the idea that we should see other people while separated. FYI I didn't do much of that for most of this past year.

 

Anyway, after the first 6 months of separation during which I tried to pull us back together, she said she was no closer to wanting to come back. I then went into a deep funk, and was fairly hopeless about reconciliation. But, I couldn't bring myself to take the next step to divorce, worrying so much about the impact on our kids, our financial future, etc. The kids do seem to have dealt with this pretty well (no school or behavioral problems) -- we have worked very hard to be amicable with each other and loving to them. Still, everything you read says that there is nothing but negative impact on the kids that comes from divorce -- and that kills me to think of hurting them. What did they ever do to deserve this?

 

Anyway, over the past three months, mostly at my urging, we have seen a very good new counselor, and have attempted to spend more time together, to see if we can make it work. It has been mostly positive, but with several bumps in the road. She has some fairly serious anger issues, and trust issues, much stemming from a broken family childhood. These tend to rear their head, and often I find myself trying to "dig out" of some hole she has put me in that I don't deserve.

 

I have never slept around on her, done anything to intentionally hurt her, yet she still has trouble trusting me, and often blows small things out of proportion. She can be frustrating and difficult, and often self-absorbed. And, she has created rifts with my family, putting me in the middle. Lastly, she has blown off a lot of friendships that we had with other couples, feeling that her women friends were not being supportive enough of what she was doing. And that really bothers me (this has been a pattern through her life). That being said, she has a lot of great qualities, is a great mom, is often a lot of fun to be around.

 

But, over these past three months, she has definitely changed her attitude about me, and us, and talks of reconciliation. So, here's my problem:

 

I was feeling fairly positive toward the idea of reconciliation, too, but must admit, due to the above issues I cited, I do have some pretty serious reservations about entering back into this. Same time, I feel so committed to my kids that I have strong feelings that I should do anything and everything to make this work -- even perhaps at the risk of my own happiness.

 

Add to all of this the following monkey wrench. About 3 weeks ago I met another woman, and we sort of fell into each others arms. She is younger, and is ending a relationship she has been in for some time. We did not have sex, but did get somewhat physical. She is mature beyond her years, beautiful, and I find myself thinking about her all the time. We email and call a lot, and I am extremely intrigued by her. I also find that since meeting her, I am questioning even more the prospect of reconciliation.

 

So, my question is, does this sound like just an infatuation with someone new and exciting that is clouding my perspective? Or should I take it as a sign that emotionally I have moved on? We all know what relationships are like when they are new -- everything seems amazing. Then, after some time, the fascination wears off a bit, and you get into the nitty gritty. Everyone has issues, and every relationship has problems. But, I can't say that the idea of a fresh start, with someone new and interesting, isn't something exciting to consider. Same time, giving up on my marriage - where we have actually come quite some distance over the past three months -- is a very daunting prospect (especially considering the kids).

 

Anyway, any advice people might have would be most appreciated. Thank you.

[LakesideDream]

There is the problem with "seperation" in a nutshell. If one or both of the partners aren't already cheating.. living apart, sepererate lives increases the chances the one or both will meet someone else.

 

Now the question is "what to do"? My opinion, if you are concerned with your children and their well being you should stick it out and try to make it work with your wife. Your children will be well served.

 

That being said, you may not be well served personally. If you do get back together, 10 years from now when your youngest is an adult, you may face the same situation again (that's what happened to me). Your attitude, and future possibilities may be much different ten years for now.

 

If you are feeling selfish (which might be fine in your situation) you may choose to look back and say it was your wife's decision to seperate, her suggestion to see other people, and but for her actions you wouldnt be in the situation you now find yourself in. That it's her actions that have forced you to make a decision, and that your decision isn't in her favor. I for one wouldn't fault you for that decision either.

[jesslindy]

Dude, you have obviously come to a decision point. How hard that decision is something you will have to figure out.

 

Your wife sounds alot like mine, great mom, nice person. But when she feels hurt, watch out. She blames you, even when you don't deserve it. I know the feeling. All to well. Unfortunatly, she has probably always been this way and there is a very good chance she always will be. Mommy and Daddy issues in woman are very hard for them to overcome. For some reason it stems hurt and pain throughout there lives in everyone that loves them. And it is unfair. A person who blames is a selfish person. A person who cheats is a selfish person. Do you want to be that guy?? A selfish person. It is a horrible trait, it is very hurtful to other people. Don't do that to your wife. Don't cheat. Even if she has done it to you. Don't do it. Its not acceptable. If she has done it to you, and you are looking for revenge. Thats not right.

 

Dude, your happiness doesn't lie in the arms of another woman, it doesn't lie in the arms of your wife, it lies in you. Figure that out and you will be fine.

 

She needs to make a decision, no halfways. So do you. Take it from there. Her personality traits will make it VERY hard on you if she has no capability of looking at herself. Keep that in mind. Take a look at your self and see what you have done as well. If you can admit it, fix it, and sustain change, you've done your part. If she cant, it was over before it started.

 

Long story short, my advice is fix your family. Although it might not be possible, it is worth a shot. Of course to do so you have to cut everything off completely with the OW and she has to do the same. THERE IS NO CHANCE AT SAVING YOUR MARRAIGE WITH SOMEONE ELSE IN EITHER PICTURE!!! That's a straight fact. Good Luck

[mystic_pizza]

Oh boy, this is a tough one. Your concerns are all very valid.

 

I agree with LakesideDream on this for the most part. But, you also mentioned that you are in MC and the counselor is good...is this the reason your wife is considering reconciliation? Or is it because her "EA" (highly unlikely it was an EA) with the other guy fizzled out? These are two important questions. If the former is the case, then give the counseling a good try before throwing in the towel, it may work out. If it is the latter, then you will end up being resentful and I am sure you are already aware of the reasons.

 

As far as the kids go, yes divorce is hard on them, but they also know when a parent is not happy too. Ask any adult child of parents who "stuck" it out for the kids. Almost 100% of the time, the kids say they wish their parents spared them the agony and got divorced instead. Also, kids deserve to have good relationship role models right along with everything else caring parents provide. If there is a chance the two of you can get past your issues and be good relationship role models as well, then go for it. If not, its okay to find someone you can be happy with, they will see that too.

 

Sorry you are going through such a tough patch right now. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[polywog]

Great advice, above....

 

But there is one caveat that no one mentioned.... that new woman is just coming out of a LTR so you may be a rebound, not a lasting relationship!

 

Unless your post is just addressing the whole idea of that world all being open to you again...

[rippedup]

Thank you all for your great insights. So much to respond to as a result. It seems that jesslindy has dealt with a lot of things that I can relate to, and had great insights into the kind of person I am dealing with. She has always had a bit of a self-absorbed streak; and knowing her mother, I know where she gets it from. I believe much of her actions have been as a result of, frankly, being selfish, and an inability to be flexible and roll with the punches a little bit. The focus of our existence in many ways has been driven by how life affects her. In some ways, I blame myself, because my default mechanism is to try to take the path of least resistance, and avoid conflict, and try to make everyone happy (even at the expense of my own interests). Unfortunately, by doing so, you end up not pushing back when perhaps you should. This only serves to further embolden a personality who will use anger and vitriole (or the implied threat of such) to push their own agenda.

 

I think the most insightful comment made in all of this was: "Her personality traits will make it VERY hard on you if she has no capability of looking at herself." She has always had difficulty in this regard. However, owing to Mystic's comment about whether the MC is the reason she is considering reconciliation, I can answer yes. I do believe that the counselor has forced her to look at herself, as have the comments I have made in counseling and otherwise. She has admitted that her bombastic personality can really run roughshod over others, and can be hurtful and damaging -- especially to those closest to her. She has committed to try and work on that, and in general has been better about it. BTW, the EA guy is completely out of the picture, and out of the state. I truly don't think this is why she is considering reconciliation.

 

With respect to her self-absorbtion and brusque personality, and her ability to look at herself, a huge issue with us is how she has treated my family over the years (she has often been rude and inconsiderate, and has done little to try to cultivate a relationship with them. The relationships essentially have to be on her terms, and it doesn't seem to bother her that the rifts that exist between her and my family really bother me). She seems unwilling to accept that she ought to perhaps be the one to extend the olive branch and try to patch things up with them. I admit that in the past I have put probably too much emphasis on my family -- at times ahead of what she wanted. I have admitted that to her and have committed to being much more cognizant of this in the future. At the same time, if for no other reason, I believe a spouse should, out of respect for their spouse, work to try and have a positive relationship with his/her family -- even if it means swallowing your pride once in awhile. Good god, her family is a DISASTER, yet even after they have burned us repeatedly, and done some inconcsionable things to me and my family, I have still found it in myself to be accepting of them. (I don't want to make myself out to be a saint, by the way, because I know there are things I have done, decisions I have made, that were mistakes. But in general, I do consider myself a pretty grounded person). Anyway, this is something she seems absolutely unwilling to do. I have to say that the prospect of a future where there is stress in this area really gives me pause. But my question is, am I putting too much emphasis here? I know my immediate family needs to be my focus, and I do believe sometimes I have put too much of my effort towards ensuring my family is "OK with everything." Sometimes, I think, I probably just need to not worry about that so much.

 

One last item -- jesslindy mentioned cheating. Should what I did with the OW be considered cheating? Separated at her behest, encouraged to see other people, etc? Just wondering what others opinions are on that. Either way, though, please know it is not out of revenge that this took place. I'm not about that.

 

But I do understand, very much so, that if I want to patch this up then the OW needs to be out of the picture.

 

Thank you all again so much for taking the time to respond.

[redblack66]

I think the most insightful comment made in all of this was: "Her personality traits will make it VERY hard on you if she has no capability of looking at herself." She has always had difficulty in this regard. However, owing to Mystic's comment about whether the MC is the reason she is considering reconciliation, I can answer yes. I do believe that the counselor has forced her to look at herself, as have the comments I have made in counseling and otherwise.

 

"Looking at herself" seems difficult for such people. About the MC: have some dose of pessimism. The counselor cannot force her to look at herself. She should have some reason for doing so. My experience is that one has to end up in a crisis, or hit rock bottom, to start looking at herself/himself.

 

She has admitted that her bombastic personality can really run roughshod over others, and can be hurtful and damaging -- especially to those closest to her. She has committed to try and work on that, and in general has been better about it. BTW, the EA guy is completely out of the picture, and out of the state. I truly don't think this is why she is considering reconciliation.

 

Make some effort to watch e-mails and phone calls. These things do not go away so easily. I am dealing with OM in Australia.

 

One last item -- jesslindy mentioned cheating. Should what I did with the OW be considered cheating? Separated at her behest, encouraged to see other people, etc? Just wondering what others opinions are on that. Either way, though, please know it is not out of revenge that this took place. I'm not about that.

 

Some people will consider it cheating and some will not. It depends how you feel about it in your world of values.

 

But I do understand, very much so, that if I want to patch this up then the OW needs to be out of the picture.

 

I may take a different view. You need to bring the passion in her towards you. This works at a subconscious level, not by being the nicest person in the world. Being with OW may be damaging if you want to make things work, but it may light her fire. Who knows.

I think there is a subtle psychological moment there.

[nitelifeguy]

So, here's my deal.

 

Basically, a year ago my wife of 15 years decided she needed to separate from me. We have two wonderful children, 8 and 11, who we both are very committed to. Making a long story short, it was a midlife crisis gone over the edge a bit. She hated where we lived, the stay at home mom stuff, etc. Also, the previous year she had fallen into an emotional affair with someone who she met through her hobby. She said she never got physical with him, but admitted to me she had fallen in love with him. My female friends say I'm crazy to believe her. Many of my friends say I'm crazy to still be in this thing, considering what she has put me through (especially considering the time she spent with this man, which many people sort of observed from afar with raised eyebrows).

 

She also raised the idea that we should see other people while separated. FYI I didn't do much of that for most of this past year.

 

Anyway, after the first 6 months of separation during which I tried to pull us back together, she said she was no closer to wanting to come back. I then went into a deep funk, and was fairly hopeless about reconciliation. But, I couldn't bring myself to take the next step to divorce, worrying so much about the impact on our kids, our financial future, etc. The kids do seem to have dealt with this pretty well (no school or behavioral problems) -- we have worked very hard to be amicable with each other and loving to them. Still, everything you read says that there is nothing but negative impact on the kids that comes from divorce -- and that kills me to think of hurting them. What did they ever do to deserve this?

 

Anyway, over the past three months, mostly at my urging, we have seen a very good new counselor, and have attempted to spend more time together, to see if we can make it work. It has been mostly positive, but with several bumps in the road. She has some fairly serious anger issues, and trust issues, much stemming from a broken family childhood. These tend to rear their head, and often I find myself trying to "dig out" of some hole she has put me in that I don't deserve.

 

I have never slept around on her, done anything to intentionally hurt her, yet she still has trouble trusting me, and often blows small things out of proportion. She can be frustrating and difficult, and often self-absorbed. And, she has created rifts with my family, putting me in the middle. Lastly, she has blown off a lot of friendships that we had with other couples, feeling that her women friends were not being supportive enough of what she was doing. And that really bothers me (this has been a pattern through her life). That being said, she has a lot of great qualities, is a great mom, is often a lot of fun to be around.

 

But, over these past three months, she has definitely changed her attitude about me, and us, and talks of reconciliation. So, here's my problem:

 

I was feeling fairly positive toward the idea of reconciliation, too, but must admit, due to the above issues I cited, I do have some pretty serious reservations about entering back into this. Same time, I feel so committed to my kids that I have strong feelings that I should do anything and everything to make this work -- even perhaps at the risk of my own happiness.

 

Add to all of this the following monkey wrench. About 3 weeks ago I met another woman, and we sort of fell into each others arms. She is younger, and is ending a relationship she has been in for some time. We did not have sex, but did get somewhat physical. She is mature beyond her years, beautiful, and I find myself thinking about her all the time. We email and call a lot, and I am extremely intrigued by her. I also find that since meeting her, I am questioning even more the prospect of reconciliation.

 

So, my question is, does this sound like just an infatuation with someone new and exciting that is clouding my perspective? Or should I take it as a sign that emotionally I have moved on? We all know what relationships are like when they are new -- everything seems amazing. Then, after some time, the fascination wears off a bit, and you get into the nitty gritty. Everyone has issues, and every relationship has problems. But, I can't say that the idea of a fresh start, with someone new and interesting, isn't something exciting to consider. Same time, giving up on my marriage - where we have actually come quite some distance over the past three months -- is a very daunting prospect (especially considering the kids).

 

Anyway, any advice people might have would be most appreciated. Thank you.

 

Hi rippedup..Yeah the way you describe the situation with your wife is scarily similar to mine..She also is a stay at home mom who hated where we lived..Was very depressive for most of the time...Had insecurity and trust issues that finally came to a head when she asked for a divorce almost 2 months ago saying that she "fell out of love" with me and no further explanation..I went through the anger stuff as well for 4 weeks as I was on the receiving end of the outbursts..And I found out all of it had nothing to do with me..I was told that she felt worthless in the marraige in all aspects and realized that she couldn't make me happy no matter what she tried..We were having financial problems and I guess that she blamed herself for not being able to be the hero for the family as I was going through a temporary adjustment to depression healing myself..So she turned to the social networking sites as an outlet to her pain over it all and possibly had an EA with someone...I think it was just limited to friends for the most part..

 

It seems that even having a hobby didn't help much in your wife's situation..it gave her the 'outlet' in which to find someone who could make her feel good about herself again..Just like my W used the MySpace outlet for the same reasons...This has to do with her needs and really doesn't have much to do with you..I discovered answers to these issues with my W and it really opened my eyes to the complexities of female self-esteem and self-worth which a lot of men don't understand at first before talking with people who have been in similar situations..

 

But yes..Your counselor was right...With abandonment issues..She wants to to feel the pain as well..to as you said,put you "in a hole" that you don't deserve..I didn't deserve this as well but as I mentioned,these are complex issues that she needs to address on her own..You really can't help her with her past...If she wants the marraige to work again she needs to confront her issues and continue to get therapy for them for any chance for it to work...

 

Keep us posted and good luck!

[mystic_pizza]

Quote:

But I do understand, very much so, that if I want to patch this up then the OW needs to be out of the picture.

I may take a different view. You need to bring the passion in her towards you. This works at a subconscious level, not by being the nicest person in the world. Being with OW may be damaging if you want to make things work, but it may light her fire. Who knows.

I think there is a subtle psychological moment there.

 

I have to agree with redblack66 on this one. Nothing motivates a woman more than some competition. However, it could work out for the best or it could end up only working out for a little while and then you are back to square one. Especially if she is not working on her issues in therapy. Meaning, the competition could scare her into really making an effort in both the relationship and therapy...a "wake up" call so-to-speak...or it could motivate her for a short time and once she conquers you and gets the OW out of the picture, she goes back to her old ways of dealing with the relationship.

 

But the reality is, rippedup, is that YOU need to do some soul searching and figure out what it is that you want. If keeping the family together is important to you and you feel the other issues can be worked out then give it a shot. Continue with the MC and really make an effort to build a better relationship with your wife. If it doesn't work out after you have made a honest effort then at least you will be able to walk away knowing you really tried. And, by going to counseling, you will be in a stronger position with your next relationship.

 

The cheating question, well, that's purely a personal thing and is based on your own belief system. I don't consider it cheating because you were encouraged to see other people, but that's just my opinion.

 

Good luck to you what ever you decide. You appear to have a good head about you, so I think you will end up being just fine.

[redblack66]

I have to agree with redblack66 on this one. Nothing motivates a woman more than some competition. However, it could work out for the best or it could end up only working out for a little while and then you are back to square one. Especially if she is not working on her issues in therapy. Meaning, the competition could scare her into really making an effort in both the relationship and therapy...a "wake up" call so-to-speak...or it could motivate her for a short time and once she conquers you and gets the OW out of the picture, she goes back to her old ways of dealing with the relationship.

 

This is so interesting. A non-standard marriage counselor was telling me exactly the same. Women drop their man when the man drops the OW.

This MC was telling me all the time: DATE. I say no way. He said:

'You have been doing so many things? Does it work? No.'

I said: 'I will lose my wife if I date.' He said: 'Your fear is talking. You are f*****g scared of losing your wife, and you will lose her.'

Think about the above.

[mystic_pizza]

This is so interesting. A non-standard marriage counselor was telling me exactly the same. Women drop their man when the man drops the OW.

This MC was telling me all the time: DATE. I say no way. He said:

'You have been doing so many things? Does it work? No.'

I said: 'I will lose my wife if I date.' He said: 'Your fear is talking. You are f*****g scared of losing your wife, and you will lose her.'

Think about the above.

 

It's true; it's karma. If you are doing things out of fear then your fears will come true. What you put out there comes back to you in the same way it went out.

 

The key is to stop trying if she has walked out. Let her see what life is like without you and at the same time live your life for you. Take the time to do some soul searching and figure out what it is you want instead of what she wants. Detach and heal and become an individual. Start doing the things you have always wanted to do for you. You have that right.

 

By taking this approach it gives her time to be alone with her thoughts. She will begin to wonder why you aren't panicking and trying to get her back. She will even start to ask why. Don't ignore her when she asks, just tell her you are giving her the space she wanted to think things through. It forces her to take responsibility for her choices in a healthy way. At the same time you are respecting her as a person, which is what we all should be doing anyway...right?

 

Many men think that if they just do what their wife wants it will win her back...the truth is it doesn't. Women are very intuitive and view that as a lazy attempt to save the relationship. We see right through it. If you detach and come back as an individual on your own terms instead of hers, she will respect you. Then your relationship has a fighting chance.

 

I hope this helps provide some insight into the mind of woman.

[mystic_pizza]

One more thing redblack66, regarding the OW competition. Not all women drop the man when he drops the OW. The outcome depends on whether or not she is in love with her husband. This sounds harsh, I know, but it is the truth. If a woman walks out because she is confused and needs to find herself, but is still in love with her husband the competition could motivate her to want to work on the marriage. If she has fallen out of love and is beyond the point of no return, it may motivate her to come back to reassure herself that she is indeed not in love anymore.

 

This is why you should just respect her wishes, give her space. You know the saying, "If you love someone let them go, if they come back they are yours and if they don't they weren't to begin with."

[mystic_pizza]

Many men think that if they just do what their wife wants it will win her back...the truth is it doesn't. Women are very intuitive and view that as a lazy attempt to save the relationship. We see right through it. If you detach and come back as an individual on your own terms instead of hers, she will respect you. Then your relationship has a fighting chance.

 

 

What I meant to say here is that many men think that if they just do what "they think" the wife wants, like do the dishes or buy her flowers, it will win her back. That is what I meant to say. Men immediately go into "good behavior" mode and say "see see" I have changed...let's get back together. Instead, they just need to pull back and give her space.

[redblack66]

It's true; it's karma. If you are doing things out of fear then your fears will come true. What you put out there comes back to you in the same way it went out.

 

The key is to stop trying if she has walked out. Let her see what life is like without you and at the same time live your life for you. Take the time to do some soul searching and figure out what it is you want instead of what she wants. Detach and heal and become an individual. Start doing the things you have always wanted to do for you. You have that right.

 

By taking this approach it gives her time to be alone with her thoughts. She will begin to wonder why you aren't panicking and trying to get her back. She will even start to ask why. Don't ignore her when she asks, just tell her you are giving her the space she wanted to think things through. It forces her to take responsibility for her choices in a healthy way. At the same time you are respecting her as a person, which is what we all should be doing anyway...right?

 

Many men think that if they just do what their wife wants it will win her back...the truth is it doesn't. Women are very intuitive and view that as a lazy attempt to save the relationship. We see right through it. If you detach and come back as an individual on your own terms instead of hers, she will respect you. Then your relationship has a fighting chance.

 

I hope this helps provide some insight into the mind of woman.

 

I find your postings very deep and insightful.

I will be very thankful if you can give some insights based on my thread http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t133240/

I have done quite a few things "wrong" and "right",

I believe.

I am wondering if you would enable your Private Messaging.