Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Try and see Anna Karenina and Madame Bovary. Those are good ones too. Ariadne I've read Anna Karenina and I have also read Stamp's posts. You are off the mark here and you still need to go back and read Stamp's posts and then come back and have an opinion. In fact I doubt it will help...some people just have one track mind.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 I don't understand why ANY of those dates you posted would prevent you from setting a date to end things with her if she's still with him. Just doesn't make sense to me. Nor does waiting months. That's just postponing when you have to 'man up' and take action. As far as him knowing she was with you on their anniversary...ok...we get it...he was probably an idiot. That doesn't matter. AT ALL. Stop dwelling on something that doesn't matter. Seriously...do you want to have control of your life again, or do you prefer to live in this situation? Its your call... All I am saying Owl, is that these next couple of months are kind of built in NC, makes it easier for ME to let the TIME that tehy need pass by, with some hard times in there that might brings some things to light for them, AND ME.. Come spring time, the birds and bees will be, well, you know...
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 I've read Anna Karenina and I have also read Stamp's posts. You are off the mark here and you still need to go back and read Stamp's posts and then come back and have an opinion. In fact I doubt it will help...some people just have one track mind. what are you saying TC..? am I being stubborn?? I feel better, I am starting to have a plan, it's taking shape, but as someone just said, I'm ONLY into DAY FREAKIN' 9 here.... I thought I was doing a little better... I can go back to felling bad again if that would help... j/k
whichwayisup Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Just so EVERYBODY knows.. There is NO WAY in hell that I am waiting another year.. NO WAY. She has had her time, to reflect, to look, listen, feel, whatever the hell she needed to do.. BUT RIGHT NOW, today, this is what I will do. I can not tell you the exact date that my time will run out, but let's go over a brief calendar, shall we?: Good to hear. There are too many on here who are still with their MP and waiting for him/her to divorce, and they haven't yet. Stamp, I think TC was referring to Adriane, not you.
Owl Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Ok...I'll buy that, SD. Makes sense when you put it that way. And, I realize that we've been coming down on you pretty good this morning. You've got to realize something tho...most of us have been through one side of the situation you're going through now. We know how this tends to play. We know the pain that everyone's going through. And most of us have been posting on this site (or others) for years. And that means we've seen the foot-dragging, postponing, fear of making a choice in others sooooooo many times. And we know that dragging it out really only hurts everyone involved. Dragging it out never improved the situation. So you get what appears to you as a mad rush of advice, with expectations that you'll implement it NOW. On a seperate note...something I'm just curious about. Does anyone else but you, her, and now her H know about the affair? Your son? Your family/friends, her parents/friends/etc...? Have you given thought to how all of this will play out with them when they find out what's been going on between the two of you (assuming of course, they don't know already)?
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 what are you saying TC..? am I being stubborn?? I feel better, I am starting to have a plan, it's taking shape, but as someone just said, I'm ONLY into DAY FREAKIN' 9 here.... I thought I was doing a little better... I can go back to felling bad again if that would help... j/k Not at all Stamp I am saying that Adriane is off the mark, not you silly! she is telling you to go read some novels as if that's the answer to your situation, it's goofy. You are on target my friend, I have been telling you that all along and you are moving past this as you should, I would not have been saying that to you and come back now and tell you otherwise. But of course you don't know that because you don't know me
OWoman Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Stamp if I had to take the kind of advice often doled out here, I'd have NC with my MM for the next 2 to 5 years, since that's how long divorce takes to finalise in his country. But I can see the progress we're BOTH making towards getting all the logistics sorted for living together full-time PERMANENTLY instead of the months-long chunks we do now as far as our visas allow. And so I know that that kind of advice, however well meant and however intensely lived, is not appropriate in my situation. You'll know how long you're prepared to wait for your MW, and what markers of progress you're looking for. It's the principle that's important, not the detail. Stuckness with no signs of effort, or all the effort coming from one side alone... might need boundaries. Or it might need patience and tolerance if there are mitigating factors - but ultimately that's your call, based on how much YOU'RE prepared to put up with and how long YOU'RE prepared to wait. Strength. If you're committed, as you sure seem to be, then waiting a little longer is a small price to pay. And if she's all you think she is, she'll deliver.
norajane Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I just don't get it.. Maybe I'm a just a simple man. Seems to me, it would mean more to her that I stood strong.. Maybe I am missing something. I know I dont want to be available to her needs when she needs them WITHOUT doing things on her end, I dont want that, NOT AT ALL.. I will stand strong and pat her on the hiney as I send her back packin', hopefully to get packed... She has no impetus to make a decision any time soon if she doesn't believe she has anything to lose (you) by stringing this out indefinitely, if she is certain you will wait for her as long as she takes, however long that is.
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Stamp if I had to take the kind of advice often doled out here, I'd have NC with my MM for the next 2 to 5 years, since that's how long divorce takes to finalise in his country. Your situation is very different from his. Your man is getting a divorce, his woman isn't.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Ok...I'll buy that, SD. Makes sense when you put it that way. And, I realize that we've been coming down on you pretty good this morning. You've got to realize something tho...most of us have been through one side of the situation you're going through now. We know how this tends to play. We know the pain that everyone's going through. And most of us have been posting on this site (or others) for years. And that means we've seen the foot-dragging, postponing, fear of making a choice in others sooooooo many times. And we know that dragging it out really only hurts everyone involved. Dragging it out never improved the situation. So you get what appears to you as a mad rush of advice, with expectations that you'll implement it NOW. On a seperate note...something I'm just curious about. Does anyone else but you, her, and now her H know about the affair? Your son? Your family/friends, her parents/friends/etc...? Have you given thought to how all of this will play out with them when they find out what's been going on between the two of you (assuming of course, they don't know already)? It's all OK, EVERYBODY is doing fine with me.. Remember, I lurked for months and saw the patterns.. I'm a big boy! Again, with ME, YES!!!!! I love her, I want her, I miss her, BUT, she has had her time. IF she can't make a decision, I will make one for her. There IS something that "haunts her", actually a couple of things, but in this case, someone told her that if she's not careful, she will wind up without EITHER of us.. So, while she knows that I AM waiting, she knows that I am NOT waiting forever.. She has a feeling it's Spring.. whether that's good or bad, I don't know.. I just have a "GUT" feeling that it's gonna be OK for me here, but by then, enough TIME for me and "signs" will have gone by to make it easier...
norajane Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Just so EVERYBODY knows.. There is NO WAY in hell that I am waiting another year.. NO WAY. She has had her time, to reflect, to look, listen, feel, whatever the hell she needed to do.. That's fine that you know that. But SHE does not. Therefore, she has no impetus to make a decision. She came over this week to get reassurance that you were still there (the whole, she didn't want you to 'forget' she loved you, thing). She got her reassurance that you would wait. You didn't tell her that you won't wait indefinitely.
OWoman Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Your situation is very different from his. Your man is getting a divorce, his woman isn't. yet. whether she does or doesn't, or does or doesn't anything, needs to be seen, and Stamp needs to decide how long he's prepared to wait for evidence of progress and what kind of evidence he's looking for. My MM is getting a divorce, yes. But for many of the posters here, that's not enough. Until he has the final divorce order in his hand, the original and not a photocopy (can't remember whose thread that was on) he's still as good as married to his W, and I should NC him. Different strokes... but my point is just that talking in absolutes misses the nuances of each situation. Stamp needs to set his limits and his boundaries, and then abide by them. The principles are sound, but the details need to be flexible to fit each particular situation.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 yet. whether she does or doesn't, or does or doesn't anything, needs to be seen, and Stamp needs to decide how long he's prepared to wait for evidence of progress and what kind of evidence he's looking for. My MM is getting a divorce, yes. But for many of the posters here, that's not enough. Until he has the final divorce order in his hand, the original and not a photocopy (can't remember whose thread that was on) he's still as good as married to his W, and I should NC him. Different strokes... but my point is just that talking in absolutes misses the nuances of each situation. Stamp needs to set his limits and his boundaries, and then abide by them. The principles are sound, but the details need to be flexible to fit each particular situation. I yeah I must admit I see a lot of this too, the stipulations are strict very strict. When you can go to any dating site or singles bar and meet a petson who is legally separated for yrs and never filed for divorce yet both parties are redoing their lives and technically "they are still married" If you are living apart paper or no paper you are not together.
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 he's still as good as married to his W, and I should NC him.I mainly recommend it to knock someone off the fence. Yours is already knocked off, so what's the point.
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 And while I may not agree with all situations, I do understand the reality of them.
OWoman Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I mainly recommend it to knock someone off the fence. Yours is already knocked off, so what's the point. I don't think mine was ever on the fence, though he was chained up inside the yard at one point... But point taken, reboot.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 I agree with Reboot, she WILL be back.. She will break NC.. It will happen... Then I can make my boundaries clear... OWoman is correct too. I AM LOOKING for signs of progress. Examples will be her meeting with Counselor alone, and telling TRUTH's She hasnt done that yet.. She will tell me what is talked about, she always does, even if it hurts, and I DO believe her... Actions, like, looking for a job, getting a job, seeing an attorney OR him seeing an attorney OR the other way.. THEM TRYING.. That'll do it for me, as I will NOT GO THROUGH THAT PAIN!!!! NO WAY Her mind and heart are churning and I am singing, "Churn baby churn, Stampdaddy's waiting.. Churn baby churn..." (it's Friday, so what the hell...?) Her words the other day (among many) were: I am a zombie, I feel dead, until I think of you, and seeing you, breathing you in, unzips JOY inside of me. You are my Joy, you are my future.. and I cannot see my life without you.." All I could be at that moment was silent...
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 She will tell me what is talked about, she always does, even if it hurtsMeaning you're ok with breaking NC?
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Meaning you're ok with breaking NC? NO I am not, but when she knocks at my door, and I stand on my porch (not letting her in) and lay down the law, it may come up, when I explain that I DO NOT want an affair with you anymore, and honestly, what have you done in the mean time that would even show me that is what you don't want either? Have you told H you want a D? (forget filing, have you even brought it up again?? for the record, she has 3 times... but he didnt buy it), Have you seen an attorney? Have you looked for a job? Have you done this have you done that?? DID YOU EVER HAVE YOUR ONE-ON-ONE with the Counselor like you said you would..? NO, well, GOODBYE
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 That will take a lot of courage, but it IS the right thing to do for everyone involved.
Owl Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 but my point is just that talking in absolutes misses the nuances of each situation. Stamp needs to set his limits and his boundaries, and then abide by them. The principles are sound, but the details need to be flexible to fit each particular situation. I've been on this board, and on other 'infidelity/recovery/marriage' boards for about three years. One thing that I have seen is that the 'nuances', the 'details'...don't matter. There is a standard 'script' to these things. Same with SD's case here. There's nothing new or surprising in his situation to me. And the way to 'manage' these things follows a same 'script'. That's why the advice almost always looks the same...because the situation is the same. The details don't need to vary much at all. The cause and effect in these relationships is pretty constant. Again...in SD's case, here's how it will break down: If NC is held in place...the affair will end, she'll reconcile with her husband. She will likely fight this over the next few months to find a way to resume BOTH the affair and the marriage. If she resumes contact with SD during that time, then its almost garaunteed that will happen. If NC is maintained through that time, there is a good chance that they will successfully reconcile over the next 2-3 years. There is a SMALL chance that her H will get fed up with things now, and kick her out and file. Its SMALL. There's a MINISCULE chance that she'll file on her own any time soon. The odds are greatest that however it plays out, SD is going to end up hurt when she decides to reconcile with her H. He may continue to have an off-again/on-again affair with her over time, until her H catches that the affair went deeper underground or until SD decides that he's tired of the waiting. Even if she D's her H and marries SD...the odds of a long term marriage remain miniscule. Her ex is going to remain in the picture forever...because of the kids. The odds are that this will place a huge continued strain on SD's and her marriage. And...over time and repeated contact with her "ex", its still probably that romantic feelings for him will resume. (The most common "OM" tends to be an 'ex somebody') Not rocket science.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 NO I am not, but when she knocks at my door, and I stand on my porch (not letting her in) and lay down the law, it may come up, when I explain that I DO NOT want an affair with you anymore, and honestly, what have you done in the mean time that would even show me that is what you don't want either? Have you told H you want a D? (forget filing, have you even brought it up again?? for the record, she has 3 times... but he didnt buy it), Have you seen an attorney? Have you looked for a job? Have you done this have you done that?? DID YOU EVER HAVE YOUR ONE-ON-ONE with the Counselor like you said you would..? NO, well, GOODBYE What if she says yes to all those things Stamp?
whichwayisup Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Her words the other day (among many) were: I am a zombie, I feel dead, until I think of you, and seeing you, breathing you in, unzips JOY inside of me. You are my Joy, you are my future.. and I cannot see my life without you.." And your response to that (as it really is pointless of her to tell you that to begin with) should be: "I can't do anything about that, only you can. If you want me, then divorce him and be with me." Her telling you that type of stuff is for what reason? Does she not know that it is unfair of her to put that on you seeing as you two were supposed to be in NC mode? It's selfish of HER to do that as the bottomline is, she is SUPPOSED to be trying to get you out of her system so she can give her husband and marriage a chance to work. SHE is NOT doing all that is necessary to make that happen because she hasn't decided yet if that is what she wants...And because of that, yes, she WILL contact you again and this is where YOU have to be strong and as hard as it will be, don't engage in those types of conversations with her as it only makes it worse for you and harder on her to make the final choice. NC is NC, and when she breaks it again, you don't have to react to it, all you have to do is tell her "we can't talk at all, talk to me when the papers are signed." See, the thing is, WILL she still get that divorce if you aren't in the picture? That remains to be seen and honestly, this is where the NC is so important because it forces her to actually sit and think, to be honest with herself. She hasn't done that yet at all, her actions prove this.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Even if she D's her H and marries SD...the odds of a long term marriage remain miniscule. Her ex is going to remain in the picture forever...because of the kids. The odds are that this will place a huge continued strain on SD's and her marriage. And...over time and repeated contact with her "ex", its still probably that romantic feelings for him will resume. (The most common "OM" tends to be an 'ex somebody') Not rocket science. The kids are grown who cares if he is in the picture in terms of fathering them and what needs to be share with her, they are not children that need of both parents, I don't see that as a problem. It will be a strain until they fine tune their own pattern and how things will work it will be a growing curve that happens in any relationship that happens from divorced partners. As per what you have seen here or in other boards similar to this, with all due respect but people come here because they are in crisis not because things are fine. the people who rode off into the sunset and lived happily ever after, GUARANTEED have no time for this.
Owl Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 As per what you have seen here or in other boards similar to this, with all due respect but people come here because they are in crisis not because things are fine. the people who rode off into the sunset and lived happily ever after, GUARANTEED have no time for this. What am I, chicken liver??? (Just kidding!!!) :D :D Sorry...living in the sunset now, my friend. You'll find that many people do come back to places like this...with the sole intention of HELPING OTHERS.
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