Author stampdaddy Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 I have grown to really respect your style in a short amount of time OWL your posts are super insightful! I have to pipe in though that though in an affair you may not take care of your honey while they have the flu or fight over who pays the bill or who should pick up the children after school, having lived with two different men in my life in two long term relationships I can totally appreciate what you are saying about the day to day grind. HOWEVER the day to day grind to me was peanuts in regards to having to deal with the trauma, stress fighting and push and pull of the "where is this relationship going and what are we doing here?" that an affair creates. I know because that is what destroyed me in my relationship with my ex guy, we were living out our relationship like a normal one out in the open and dating as two single people bUT he was still married and his W did not know about us, it was SUPER stressful to say the least. SO while no I did not fight with him over who gets to pay the bills like I might have in a past relationship I had my share of stressful moments that we had to deal with in a very similar manner. Honestly it is not all that different. Plus in Stamp's place it's three plus years you know a lot about a person in three years, my goodness some religions don't even let people meet before they marry and they make it work anyway once together. Some people date for 4 yrs and never live together or spend significant amounts of times in each other's spaces...some people in this day in age in our Western world still dont live together before they marry, yet they marry and have a fair go at it anyway. Would we say to them, well you haven't REALLY taken care of each other and seen the nitty gritty of what a couple goes through day in day out so you cannot marry? no! we wish them the best and away they go. Re addiction....when we fall in love it is also compared to temporary insanity and it is, according to the brain waves...yet we do it anyway and it is the best feeling in the world. The addiction one feels in an A is no different than any addiction we feel when we have something that feels good. Three years is hardly an addiction it is a full on relationship. It's like saying to any BS well you are just addicted to your cheating spouse let them go...it's no different. WOW! WOW! Thanks TC.. Thanks... I am open to ALL posts, but this one hits the nail on the head! It is VERY true.. We have had our ups and downs for sure. STupid things, normal things that couples go through, started the day I moved into my condo 3 weeks after meeting her. She was there to tell me "that picture above the mantel is hung too high..." nag nag ANyway, yes, extreme pressures on different levels and we have grown by going through them.. We have been able to recognize when a problem is "starting" to arise and start to deal with it. We have a "Chalkboard" that we use to write down our thoughts/feelings of an issue and get it all out on that chalkboard and when we reached a point where we were "done" with the problem, we were able to "erase" what the issue was, and it usually proved to be "silly". If it wasnt "silly" or needed additional attention, we took further action, including going to counseling. As far as the addiction: I have dated, I have been married, I have "fallen in love", and can understand, BUT, I have never thought anything, but WOW, look at how beautiful she looks.. even when she is covered with sweat and dirt.. Matbe that is addiction, but I will never by it. I LOVE every ounce of this woman's soul
Owl Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Wanted to add... The "in love" stage of a relationship is often extended during an affair. The "illicit relationship", the thrill of the sneaking, the fun of getting away with it...those all actually ADD to the addiction. And they extend the "in love" period...along with the lack of 'reality invasion' that tends to hit a normal relationship in the 2-3 year mark.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 Wanted to add... The "in love" stage of a relationship is often extended during an affair. The "illicit relationship", the thrill of the sneaking, the fun of getting away with it...those all actually ADD to the addiction. And they extend the "in love" period...along with the lack of 'reality invasion' that tends to hit a normal relationship in the 2-3 year mark. On the path to mature love, these three stages blend into one another. One does not stop and another begins. In fact occasionally, they all three take place simultaneously. For example, you can still create romance in the second and third stages. Remember the draw of the first stage, where there was the element of surprise and the unknown? To create some romance, change your routine and bring in the element of surprise and unpredictability. You might create a date night once a week, where you go out and do fun things together. Use your imagination. Likewise, during the third stage it is still important to bring up issues that get in the way of experiencing a good relationship. Communication is important in all stages, as is working on your own issues and building awareness. Knowing these three stages helps people be realistic about relationships. Rather than giving up during the tough times of the second stage, it is helpful to know it is normal and there are things you can do to make the way easier. Good relationships take time, awareness, risking, and good communication skills, to name a few, and require lots of practice. Each relationship is unique and incomparable.
Tomcat33 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I would agree...except...you're gonna love this... The BS isn't addicted to their WS!!!! See...I told you that you'd love it. Please...seriously...make a run to the nearest Borders (or Christian bookstores have them too), and grab a copy of "The Five Languages of Love". Get a cup of coffee and sit and read Chapter #3. It talks about the "in love" vs. the "long term love". Somewhere around here I did a long post on the 'stages of love' in a relationship...but I'm too lazy and tired to retype it right now. There is a HUGE difference between the feelings felt for an OP in an affair...or the feelings for anyone in the BEGINNING of a relationship (normally 2-3 years), and the feelings felt for that same person in a later phase of the same relationship. And its those "in love" feelings that are the source of the chemical addiction. Do an internet search, and you'll probably find what I'm talking about. Well OWL a BS may not be addicted to their partner but then the same could be said for the affair people. I also speak from my own experience that what I felt with my ex was no different than what I felt with the men I loved most in my past, the love feelings where the same, the hopes of a happy future were the same, the consumption of thoughts about my loved one were the same, the feeling of familiarity when I ferquented a place we had been together or the idea that I wante to run to tell him all about something great that happened to me in the day were all the same, the feeling of comradery you get when you see something silly that reminds you for your honey, are exactly the same...I still don't get what this addiction is? we are talking about a relationship affair VS a fling right? I think what Stamp lived with his woman was very real and you can't just brush it off as trying to overcome and addiction. some people are in long distance relationships and make due of their time when they see one another the best they know how and they see each other in intervals of days or weeks over three or four years, and so do we say to them if they break up...well that wasn't a real relationship you were just addicted your history was limited therefore you have no idea what it would be like to part from someone who was in your life day in day out. Still don't see how they are so different? There is a HUGE difference between the feelings felt for an OP in an affair...or the feelings for anyone in the BEGINNING of a relationship (normally 2-3 years), and the feelings felt for that same person in a later phase of the same relationship. And its those "in love" feelings that are the source of the chemical addiction. it's ok I know about the stages of love, I'll save you the trouble... yes the first three years are crutial in the stages of the addictive feeling but don't forget that your marriage actually started thanks to the the two or three years that these addictive feelings were cemented. something to think about.... If someone would have said to you then, walk away you are just addicted to that person would you have said "yeah you're right this isn't love it's just an addiction". ?
whichwayisup Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Stamped, to you the affair was your everything. We all understand that, but for her, she has a whole other life built on MORE than what you two have had in the past 3 1/2 years...You weren't her 'everything' you were a 'part of it' but not all of it. Sorry, I don't want to hurt your feelings and I'm not trying to diminish what you two have shared... Take care of you, make some arrangements with some buddy's and GO OUT somewhere. See a hockey game, shoot some pool, just forget about all this stuff for a while. Sitting and focussing on it 24/7 is not going to help you in the long run.
Tomcat33 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Wanted to add... The "in love" stage of a relationship is often extended during an affair. The "illicit relationship", the thrill of the sneaking, the fun of getting away with it...those all actually ADD to the addiction. And they extend the "in love" period...along with the lack of 'reality invasion' that tends to hit a normal relationship in the 2-3 year mark. I hate to be a Debbie Downer but in all honesty and call me immature, call me naive, call me selfish, but if you could do it right and it didn't take an affair WHO WOULDN'T like to extend the period of being "in love" it's the best part of a relationship. BUT all these descriptors are fine so long as the couple never has to deal with the emotional aspect of the "where is this going and what are we doing" the sneaking around might be exciting for some it might feel great to know you are getting away with something sneaky and illicit, but when push comes to shove a lot of pain and anguish hangs over the "fun-filled fantasy" that everyone seems to think these relationships are all about. Take it from the horse's mouth with all the emotional upheavel it is DAMN hard to enjoy any of the pros of what an affair is supposed to grant you and the reason why a lot of them end on their own due to one or two of the parties not being able cope is because they simply can't sustain under wraps the level of pain that's incurred. It is exhausting emotionally, you cannot imagine how draining it is and how stressful it can be. there is NOTHING unreal or fantasy about that. The affiars that are atypical must be the ones that fit the bill of fun and excitement and illicit naughtiness the rest are all a pile of exhaustion. Sounds a lot like being married really when you think about it
whichwayisup Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 there is NOTHING unreal or fantasy about that. Maybe for the OM or OW, but it is a fantasy for the MW/MM. They are escaping their own lives. A marriage isn't hidden away and living in secret, an affair is.
Tomcat33 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Stamped, to you the affair was your everything. We all understand that, but for her, she has a whole other life built on MORE than what you two have had in the past 3 1/2 years...You weren't her 'everything' you were a 'part of it' but not all of it. Sorry, I don't want to hurt your feelings and I'm not trying to diminish what you two have shared... Is being someone's "everything" where you are physicall or where you are in head and emotion? I know you'll say both but when and affair happens neither is getting both so we need to debunk that right off the bat. Personally I beleive that where a person is in head and emotion is where they are no matter where the body is. Like if I knew my partner was with me every day but not there in head and emotion what good is his body to me...well it's good but you know what I mean (where is the little devil face smiley when you need one?)
Tomcat33 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Maybe for the OM or OW, but it is a fantasy for the MW/MM. They are escaping their own lives. A marriage isn't hidden away and living in secret, an affair is. Sure they are escaping their OWN lives with their spouses but they are very real and present in the other life so what is fake about the life he/she has with the OP. See what I mean?
whichwayisup Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Is being someone's "everything" where you are physicall or where you are in head and emotion? I meant, he included her in every part of his life in everyway and she didn't do that for him. There was tons of stuff that he wasn't included in and a part of in her life.
Tomcat33 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 A marriage isn't hidden away and living in secret, an affair is. Spare the moral lesson I know what an affair is I know what marriage is, the comparisson is they are both exhausting!
Author stampdaddy Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 Stamped, to you the affair was your everything. We all understand that, but for her, she has a whole other life built on MORE than what you two have had in the past 3 1/2 years...You weren't her 'everything' you were a 'part of it' but not all of it. Sorry, I don't want to hurt your feelings and I'm not trying to diminish what you two have shared... Take care of you, make some arrangements with some buddy's and GO OUT somewhere. See a hockey game, shoot some pool, just forget about all this stuff for a while. Sitting and focussing on it 24/7 is not going to help you in the long run. WW, I hear you.. Youre OK I am better, I will be OK.. I was her "everything", but not her everything.. I know the difference. I know she depends on him, sure she does. AND SHE WILL CONTINUE, but not as her "room and board", not as her "meal ticket", but as the Father of their children.. Of course this is IF they D.. But I was the man she wanted to share things with, that she would call when something was on her mind, good or bad, when one of the kids was sick, any reason really.. THEY wouldnt talk all day long.. Have any of you guys ever known what it was like to go to the Hallmark store, trying to find a card for someone, and you could stand there all day long, and just couldnt find one that said what you wanted to say? That's where she has said she has been with him for MANY years...
Tomcat33 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I meant, he included her in every part of his life in everyway and she didn't do that for him. There was tons of stuff that he wasn't included in and a part of in her life. But there are a ton of things some people don't include in each other's lives while they date and they date anyway. I don't see it so cut and dry. Just because he didn't get to have dinner with her and her parents all around a christmas tree does not make their experience any less real, some people are completely alone in this world no family at all, and the reality is that is what Christmas would be every year, a dinner without the family and friends. I dunnow there are so many examples of non traditional unions that do their thing in their own way but is their reality and less because it is not like everyone else? And I know...I know... everyone else is not sneaking around BUT you HAVE TO if you want to form a tie with someone that is not available, so it is par for the course. still does not make their moments together less real.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 I meant, he included her in every part of his life in everyway and she didn't do that for him. There was tons of stuff that he wasn't included in and a part of in her life. I wouldnt say tons... You'd be suprised how much of her life I was a part of...
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Ummm... bad analogy. Have any of you guys ever known what it was like to go to the Hallmark store, trying to find a card for someone, and you could stand there all day long, and just couldnt find one that said what you wanted to say? That's where she has said she has been with him for MANY years... Yes, I've done that many times. Looking for the PERFECT card. Because I had so much to say, not too little. And if I couldn't find the perfect card, I'd buy a blank one and say it in my own (not so poetic) words.
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 And I know...I know... everyone else is not sneaking around BUT you HAVE TO if you want to form a tie with someone that is not available, so it is par for the course. still does not make their moments together less real. TC, speaking for myself, and probably most of the people commenting here, I don't doubt his love for her, and maybe not even her love for him. He seems really sincere, and I don't think you can fake what he's describing, so I'm sure the relationship, such that it is, IS real. But... she's home with her husband, and stampdaddy is crushed. That is also quite real.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 TC, speaking for myself, and probably most of the people commenting here, I don't doubt his love for her, and maybe not even her love for him. He seems really sincere, and I don't think you can fake what he's describing, so I'm sure the relationship, such that it is, IS real. But... she's home with her husband, and stampdaddy is crushed. That is also quite real. Yup I totally agree. That is indeed the reality! On a side note, and forgive me for saying this and I don't mean any disrespect for anyone, but how in the world do these long term affairs go on? I just don't get it? I don't get a how a person in the cheater's shoes can lead a double life for years like that? I don't get how a marriage can be lived for years with another relationship on the side and I just don't get how a person in the OP shoes can have a relationship with someone for that long of a time not knowing what's what. It really baffles me, and I am not being a hypocrite or anything because I was there at one point but it was just too much too handle just a year I can't imagine years of that for all involved. It really makes me wonder what is happening at home vs what is happening in the new relationship. Seriously if we honestly take a hard look at that it can't be so cut and dry as well the cheater loves them both, you can't be loving two people at the same time if your spouse is oblivious to another life outside of them for so long? Can you? On another other side note: is anyone having difficulties accessing back posts when you click on a member? I keep getting this weird message!?!?
reboot Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 On another other side note: is anyone having difficulties accessing back posts when you click on a member? I keep getting this weird message!?!?They have everything that has anything to do with searching disabled right now. And that's a function of the site's search engine.
Tomcat33 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 They have everything that has anything to do with searching disabled right now. And that's a function of the site's search engine. Ooohh ok thx!! I thought it was something to do with the system but wasn't 100% no consipiracy against Tomcat then. Though you all could have had a lot of fun on my expense..
Lyssa Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 On a side note, and forgive me for saying this and I don't mean any disrespect for anyone, but how in the world do these long term affairs go on? I just don't get it? I don't get a how a person in the cheater's shoes can lead a double life for years like that? I don't get how a marriage can be lived for years with another relationship on the side and I just don't get how a person in the OP shoes can have a relationship with someone for that long of a time not knowing what's what. It really baffles me, and I am not being a hypocrite or anything because I was there at one point but it was just too much too handle just a year I can't imagine years of that for all involved. It really makes me wonder what is happening at home vs what is happening in the new relationship. Seriously if we honestly take a hard look at that it can't be so cut and dry as well the cheater loves them both, you can't be loving two people at the same time if your spouse is oblivious to another life outside of them for so long? Can you? TC - You took the words out of my mouth! If things didn't turn out the way it did for both of us, I don't think I could go on for another year or two. I have always wanted to know how some did it for 3 - 10 years! As for myself, I can't see myself cheating on my partner because I know how a partner feels if he were to find out. Plus I don't think I can ever take a chance on wrecking something good that is going on. If things were not good between us, there is always an option to either end things or get into counseling. It isn't as easy as doing it... but I believe everyone should at least try...
Owl Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I'd say that their moments together were real... But they were limited to MOMENTS... Which isn't a complete picture of what a full time relationship with that same person will be like. That's the point I've been trying to make. And the bottom line is simple...regardless of whether SD or anyone else agrees with what I've described of an affair relationship or not...the practical advice I've given stands. I don't know that there's much else I can say or advise here. SD will have to decide what he's doing from here. Personally, I think he'd be better off realizing where his relationship with her is headed...and end it on his own terms and come to grips with it. I think he's prolonging his own pain. And I think this pain has been pretty much inevitable since this all started over three years ago. Its just taken this long to arrive. Same with the pain that she's going through, and the pain that her husband is suffering right now as well.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 I'd say that their moments together were real... But they were limited to MOMENTS... Which isn't a complete picture of what a full time relationship with that same person will be like. That's the point I've been trying to make. And the bottom line is simple...regardless of whether SD or anyone else agrees with what I've described of an affair relationship or not...the practical advice I've given stands. I don't know that there's much else I can say or advise here. SD will have to decide what he's doing from here. Personally, I think he'd be better off realizing where his relationship with her is headed...and end it on his own terms and come to grips with it. I think he's prolonging his own pain. And I think this pain has been pretty much inevitable since this all started over three years ago. Its just taken this long to arrive. Same with the pain that she's going through, and the pain that her husband is suffering right now as well. I hope you're wrong, Wise Old Owl, my friend
whichwayisup Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Wise Old Owl, Sorry to threadjack here, but I told ya so OWL!! I'm not the only one...
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Yup I totally agree. That is indeed the reality! On a side note, and forgive me for saying this and I don't mean any disrespect for anyone, but how in the world do these long term affairs go on? I just don't get it? I don't get a how a person in the cheater's shoes can lead a double life for years like that? I don't get how a marriage can be lived for years with another relationship on the side and I just don't get how a person in the OP shoes can have a relationship with someone for that long of a time not knowing what's what. It really baffles me, and I am not being a hypocrite or anything because I was there at one point but it was just too much too handle just a year I can't imagine years of that for all involved. It really makes me wonder what is happening at home vs what is happening in the new relationship. Seriously if we honestly take a hard look at that it can't be so cut and dry as well the cheater loves them both, you can't be loving two people at the same time if your spouse is oblivious to another life outside of them for so long? Can you? On another other side note: is anyone having difficulties accessing back posts when you click on a member? I keep getting this weird message!?!? I will tell you our situation.. H was TOTALLY oblivious to just about EVERYTHING except his work... Where do I start? hasnt slept with his wife in 3 yearshasnt had a "date" in longerhasnt EVER taken a day off of work to say, hey honey, let's do whateverthought he was "givng her space" to make her happy. BEFORE MEnothing in common except kidsDIVIDE AND CONQUER with kidsskipped family vacation this yeartypical H works, W cooks (half meals were from me)no friends for him, except 1Many friends for her, Girls Nite Out (with me)etc, etc, etcTOTALLY NOT IN TUNE
Author stampdaddy Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Ummm... bad analogy. Yes, I've done that many times. Looking for the PERFECT card. Because I had so much to say, not too little. And if I couldn't find the perfect card, I'd buy a blank one and say it in my own (not so poetic) words. OK, besides the "perfect card" buy a blank one, have you ever been with someone that, even if you bought a blank card, you wouldnt know what to say? "um, you're a great dad, now that you realize that you have kids, at least the first two.. I admire how hard you work, at work, and I don't want to see anything bad happen to you and wish you hapiness..." Anything like that? cause that's what she feels...
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