Had a visitor today...

[LifesontheUp]

Ok...........to me she came over because she'd argued with her husband and wanted comfort. Sorry, IMHO she was using you again. She keeps you on the side and I can see why stampdaddy, its because of all the wonderful things you do for her. Things that her husband should be doing.

 

I'm not sure how long you will allow this to go on for, this going around in circles. So I'll twist it around and ask you what she's done for you? How has she shown her love for you?.......its not by leaving to be with you. So how has she shown that she loves and respects you? when its now all out in the open.

 

I'm not getting at you at all. I just wanted you to think on a few things.

[stampdaddy]

Ok...........to me she came over because she'd argued with her husband and wanted comfort. Sorry, IMHO she was using you again. She keeps you on the side and I can see why stampdaddy, its because of all the wonderful things you do for her. Things that her husband should be doing.

 

I'm not sure how long you will allow this to go on for, this going around in circles. So I'll twist it around and ask you what she's done for you? How has she shown her love for you?.......its not by leaving to be with you. So how has she shown that she loves and respects you? when its now all out in the open.

 

I'm not getting at you at all. I just wanted you to think on a few things.

 

I'm trying to think of EVERYTHING

[reboot]

I guess you did ok this time. But please let us know what happens NEXT time. And there will be a next time, until you put your foot down. And you didn't do that, and you know you didn't.

[reboot]

And by the way, we all KNEW she was going to show up there. So did you.

[stampdaddy]

And by the way, we all KNEW she was going to show up there. So did you.

 

I have been looking out my window with "heart" hoping she would and "mind" knowing she shouldnt... She looked terrible, but God did she look so beautiful. It is SO hard.. She couldnt keep her hands off of my face, off of my heart. She loves me dearly.. I hope she loves me enough to be honest with him, and moreso, herself...

 

I know this the ONLY way.. DAY ONE....

[Owl]

Something to think about...

 

In my case, my wife's OM was someone she'd never met in person...but she was all set to fly off and live with him after they were busted on d-day.

 

And he was good with it too.

 

But, that last day that she was supposed to get on the plane, I showed up at her motel room, and we sat and talked. And it was the first time she LISTENED to what I was saying, and started to doubt what she was doing. OM called right in the middle of that conversation...and (I think) got angry and hurt that she was doubting her choice to be with him. He told her not to get on the plane. It hurt her VERY MUCH.

 

I took her home...she cried for hours.

 

She was screaming angry at me and the kids that whole weekend. We RUINED HER LIFE for not letting her go be with him.

 

The following week, contact resumed. And...we started marriage counseling.

 

And for the next four weeks, we started this strange pattern where she would 'break it off' with OM a day or two before counseling, show up at counseling and tell the counselor that NOW she's established NC...and the next day she'd resume contact and the cycle would repeat. We were going once a week.

 

This went on until I finally had enough...she'd treated me like doodoo one too many times, and I went and talked with a lawyer to find out the process for filing in our state. This was when she truly realized I was SERIOUS...I was not willing to let this go on indefinitely, nor was I willing to do a "seperation"...that really would have just resulted in her gradually becoming single and being with OM.

 

THAT was when she finally made her choice to reconcile our marriage. It was partially due to the fact that the affair was really suffering now that it was out in the open and they were forced to see what they were doing, and due to the fact that she absolutely knew that she'd lose me completely out of her life if things went on the way they were.

 

But, it gets better!

 

At that point, NC with OM was established and held for about a month. Then he sent her an email...which she showed me and ignored. BUT...he sent her a second one to her other account which she responded to. I was checking her email, saw it, but waited for her to tell me. For three days, she didn't. Then finally we got into a huge fight over it, and she sent an email asking OM for NC officially. It wasn't heartfelt...but it was sent.

 

She broke that same NC agreement 5 days later, by sending OM a Father's day e-card.

 

THIS TIME...OM responded with a polite "I respect what you and your H are trying to do. Please honor that and do not contact me again.".

 

That was the last contact we had with him...over three years ago.

 

Long post, but do you get the point I'm trying to make?

 

Its up to YOU to set your boundaries...to help her make the right choice here. You know what that choice is, as much as you hate it. Just like my wife's OM did, I'm sure.

 

YOU need to set the NC boundary. And YOU need to enforce it going forward. Not just for her sake...but for your own as well. Otherwise, you're just going to be stuck in this same loop over and over and over...until someone snaps. Could be you, could be her...could be her H. All you can know is that it will hurt EVERYONE when that happens.

 

The best thing you can do right now is to 'man up'...end the affair forever...and let her go and do what she needs to do to heal herself and her family. And let yourself heal from this all as well.

 

Make sense, my friend?

[Owl]

Here's a copy of the email I'd sent to OM immediately after my WW sent him the NC email:

 

OM,

I wanted you to know that WW shared the email she received from you as soon as she got it. We’re not hiding anything from each other anymore…we’re talking and working things out. We’ve begun rebuilding our marriage, and things are getting to the way they used to be WAY before all of this happened. We’re working hard to ensure that we don’t find ourselves back in the situation we’ve been in the last year or more ever again. WW has found that she truly is still in love with me…and that I really have never stopped loving her either. She’s come to realize that much of what happened was due to depression…she felt that she wasn’t getting any of the love and attention from me, so she accepted it from you instead. She’s seeing it from me now, and we’ve been happier together in the last few weeks than we’ve been in a long, long time.

Based on that, I want you to do something. I want you to walk away. I know that she’s said that she wants to have you remain as a friend. I know that she likes you, and that she does miss your conversations. But you know as well as I that I can never trust that friendship between the two of you again. Just seeing that email from you created a huge amount of strain between us that we’ve not had in weeks. I’ve told her how I feel on this…but you know as well as I that she will make her own decision. So, once again I’m coming to you to ask you to do the right thing.

With you in the picture in any sense of the word, rebuilding our marriage will be FAR more difficult. That’s not fair. It’s not fair to me, and it’s not fair to her either. She’s working hard to regain what we’ve lost, just like I am. I know that you feel that you love her. But you know as well as I do that your feelings for her are WRONG. She’s always been a married woman, to a man you thought of as a friend. You VERY nearly destroyed a love that has lasted for 18 years. I think I understand how you feel about her…and I know that you’ll never completely think of her as just a friend.

Walk away. Free her and I to continue to rebuild our marriage and our friendship with each other. No matter what, don’t come back. For as long as you continue to do so, you’ll be making the lives of two people you claimed as friends (and more) more painful than you can imagine. Walk away. Do so knowing that she’s happy again with her marriage, and that our family life is coming back together like it should. Do so knowing that you’ve done the right thing, and secure in the knowledge that there is the right man with her, who will ALWAYS fight to help her be the best person she can be, and will always love her and be there for her. Things got rough between us, and you did help to bring that out in a way that will make sure that we will NEVER let them get that bad again. Walk away, and find your own peace. Find the person you’re SUPPOSED to be with. It’s not WW. You two both did a lot for each other from what I’ve learned. You know that you can love again now. Go find where YOU are supposed to be, and leave WW and I free to be what we’re supposed to be.

 

I wrote this three years ago, when trying to save my marriage and my family from my wife's affair. I sent this to the OM, whom I'd gamed with online and who had claimed to be my friend (while conducting an EA with my wife).

 

I'm posting it hoping that maybe it contains a message that can help SD and other OP's here on the board. Its not meant as an attack...please don't take it that way.

[stampdaddy]

Thanks Owl.. I will think about it all.. VERY confused right now. NOT about NC, just about everything else

[Owl]

Last idea for you...

 

Right now, all you're going to want to do is 'think about it'.

 

You're going to be obsessing over every little nuance of the situation.

 

And truthfully, that's the LAST thing you SHOULD be doing.

 

What you NEED to do for yourself is to move on. Every time you start thinking about this whole thing...thinking about her...you need to catch yourself and FORCE yourself to do something else. You need to change the patterns of your thoughts.

 

Otherwise, you're going to sit here and do nothing but hurt...which isn't going to help you, her, or anyone else.

 

Get on that plan we discussed. Get BUSY...doing other things, working out, talk with friends...etc... Start filling that gap where you used to focus on her, focused on ANYTHING else.

 

Stop thinking...start doing.

 

Trust me...it'll work.

[JMC]

Owl, that did help me understand more, thank you.

 

It's sad, but I really have no strong ingrained references for what marriage is all about or what it's supposed to be.

 

My grandparents were all married a long time but I didn't see them much, and they fought anyway.

 

My parents played what I call "Musical Marriage/Divorce".

 

My own short marriage at 20 was very long ago...hard to remember. Wasn't married long at all.

 

So thank you for the info so I can understand why it is so hard for people to leave.

 

Yet to paraphrase Impudent Oyster, people will move heaven and earth no matter what, to be with someone they really want to be with.

 

My HUGE question is, would those same people do that (drop everything for someone) EVEN IN the face of a long, bonded marriage?? Is this thing she often says really realistic?!!!

 

AND even if they did drop everything and go to the OM/W forever, what would that say about their morals if there were children involved??

 

Is it truly a lose/lose situation as it appears? Owl?

[stampdaddy]

Owl, that did help me understand more, thank you.

 

It's sad, but I really have no strong ingrained references for what marriage is all about or what it's supposed to be.

 

My grandparents were all married a long time but I didn't see them much, and they fought anyway.

 

My parents played what I call "Musical Marriage/Divorce".

 

My own short marriage at 20 was very long ago...hard to remember. Wasn't married long at all.

 

So thank you for the info so I can understand why it is so hard for people to leave.

 

Yet to paraphrase Impudent Oyster, people will move heaven and earth no matter what, to be with someone they really want to be with.

 

My HUGE question is, would those same people do that (drop everything for someone) EVEN IN the face of a long, bonded marriage?? Is this thing she often says really realistic?!!!

 

AND even if they did drop everything and go to the OM/W forever, what would that say about their morals if there were children involved??

 

Is it truly a lose/lose situation as it appears? Owl?

 

Just so it's understood in MY case, MW wouldnt just drop "everything" and "run out the door on a wing and a prayer.." For us to be WE, it would still take MANY YEARS before that really happened.. I'd say up to 2 years before I met the children, 5 plus years before we married.. However, just the start of "every other weekends" would be such a relief for me... And if she thought I loved her NOW, how would she feel when she came home from work (to her new house), gathereing the kids, tired to find dinner in the oven, beds made, bathrooms cleaned and a note under her pillow saying goodnight....

 

I know it wouldnt be easy by any stretch, BUT, with things like what I just wrote, it would be easier...

[Tomcat33]

Last idea for you...

 

Right now, all you're going to want to do is 'think about it'.

 

You're going to be obsessing over every little nuance of the situation.

 

And truthfully, that's the LAST thing you SHOULD be doing.

 

What you NEED to do for yourself is to move on. Every time you start thinking about this whole thing...thinking about her...you need to catch yourself and FORCE yourself to do something else. You need to change the patterns of your thoughts.

 

Otherwise, you're going to sit here and do nothing but hurt...which isn't going to help you, her, or anyone else.

 

Get on that plan we discussed. Get BUSY...doing other things, working out, talk with friends...etc... Start filling that gap where you used to focus on her, focused on ANYTHING else.

 

Stop thinking...start doing.

 

Trust me...it'll work.

 

 

I'm sorry but I respecfully STRONGLY disagree with this. What he needs to do now is think, and purge all his thoughts and he needs to play things out in his head as much as he needs to and as LONG as it needs to in order to get to the other side. supressing what he wants to think about by trying to keep "busy" is not dealing with things and he can't grow from there.

 

Letting go takes time, a break up takes a lot of time to come to terms with and the pain needs to be lived out thorugh thought and through physical expression of pain. I respect what everyone are telling him to do but it is TOO SOON to expect so much from this man, he needs to ride out every emotion he is feeling right now and thinking is good even cutting yourself off a bit to be in your head is good as long as it does not become his life, he needs to do that. If he were 6months post breakup THEN it would be alarming but let's cut him some slack he JUST broke up with her he needs to process the emotions he can't just close the door on it all an pretend it's not there IT IS there and the only way it is going away is if he deals with it and faces it head on. You have to ride it out you can't pretend there is nothing there it IS there.

 

Sitting there and hurting does help because it is the only way the body knows to purge. pretending the pain is gone is only prolonging the pain.

 

If you walk past a box that is wrapped in shiny paper you might look at it and go "hm a box wrapped in shiny paper, away I go on my merry day..."

But if I say to you "whatever you do not look at what's inside that box you don't want to see that, just go on your merry way" OF COURSE you will totally want to see what's in it. I've just hightened your preception of need. By telling Stamp do not focus on your pain move on all we are doing is hightening his perception of need.

 

 

Stamp, writing here is good because you get to put out a lot of your thoughts but I strongly recommend journalling to yourself, write down your thoughts and write her letters if you have to tell he what you are feeling and thinking BUT DON"T SEND THEM, just get the thoughts out of your head it helps.

[luvmy2ns]

Actually, when I was going through a hard situation a few years ago I was first dwelling on it. I was too inside my own head for my own good, and it was affecting my life in not so good ways. I then said "F this" and began to try to forget by being with friends, going lots of place and doing lots of things, I did actually get over the situation. So I have to agree with Owl on this one.

[stampdaddy]

I write so much, I talk out loud. I scream so loud if you listened, you'd hear me.. You are both right, I am trying to keep busy, I've written out a list of goals, both big and small..I have alot of work to do at MY house, which will include starting to "purge" her things, which will be the hardest thing I've ever done... It's like she died. If you walked into my home, you would never know that she didnt live here.. A closet full of clothes. "Her side of the bed", pictures, statues (those Willow Tree things), her vanity and all of that type of stuff.. perfume, tampons, hair clips, make up, her hair brushes.. Then there are the boxes and boxes of "our" momentos.. cards, letters, souvenirs, ticket stubs, match boxes, wine corks with writing on them of the occasion (Bdays, Xmas, special dinners, trips, date nites, our first snow fight, our first overnite, the rooftop of the Peabody Hotel, etc...) There are Christmas ornaments on the tree already that I will have to take down. And finally, her picture by my bed....

 

SO, how can I not stay busy and thinking at the same time while I purge the love of my life????

[Tomcat33]

Actually, when I was going through a hard situation a few years ago I was first dwelling on it. I was too inside my own head for my own good, and it was affecting my life in not so good ways. I then said "F this" and began to try to forget by being with friends, going lots of place and doing lots of things, I did actually get over the situation. So I have to agree with Owl on this one.

 

 

you've just described exactly what I said!

 

He needs to come to his "f@#K this" day on his own, not because it's what's expected.

[Tomcat33]

I write so much, I talk out loud. I scream so loud if you listened, you'd hear me.. You are both right, I am trying to keep busy, I've written out a list of goals, both big and small..I have alot of work to do at MY house, which will include starting to "purge" her things, which will be the hardest thing I've ever done... It's like she died. If you walked into my home, you would never know that she didnt live here.. A closet full of clothes. "Her side of the bed", pictures, statues (those Willow Tree things), her vanity and all of that type of stuff.. perfume, tampons, hair clips, make up, her hair brushes.. Then there are the boxes and boxes of "our" momentos.. cards, letters, souvenirs, ticket stubs, match boxes, wine corks with writing on them of the occasion (Bdays, Xmas, special dinners, trips, date nites, our first snow fight, our first overnite, the rooftop of the Peabody Hotel, etc...) There are Christmas ornaments on the tree already that I will have to take down. And finally, her picture by my bed....

 

SO, how can I not stay busy and thinking at the same time while I purge the love of my life????

 

Satmp cut yourself some slack will you, you are trying to rush yourself through something you can't rush through. It is supposed to hurt, you are supposed to want it to pass already no one likes pain, and it is supposed to be confusing, you are right where you need to be. Just keep doing what you are doing and ride it out but know that you will come out of it it does get better and the cloud does lift.

[kchiapet95]

I don't mean to threadjack but...

 

Tomcat, you give the best advice. I remember when I first signed up on this site, and you gave me some of the most level-headed, kind, supportive advice I received. It wasn't just "what I wanted to hear" either, you were honest and direct. I really appreciate your posts.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm sorry. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Tomcat33]

Hiii Kchia!! How are you doing? Any updates on your thread? That is such a sweet thing to say and very touching to know I reached out to you in your time of need. I wondered about your story/outcome. Kchia if you are not updating your thread I hope you are doing well, I know things were very difficult for you a while back.

Kchiapet I see a lot of you in cormercials lately and it reminds me of you...the chiapet seems to be a real showcase for the holidays.. tee-hee!

 

Sorry Stamp don't want to take away from your thread so I will stop now but I had to respond to such a nice mention my way...hope you don't mind.

[OpenBook]

Tomcat, you give the best advice. I remember when I first signed up on this site, and you gave me some of the most level-headed, kind, supportive advice I received. It wasn't just "what I wanted to hear" either, you were honest and direct. I really appreciate your posts.

 

Yup, totally agree - The Lady Is A Champ!! But it's one of those rare times when I disagree with her advice to stampdaddy. Sometimes the pain is so unbearable you'll do anything to stop it... like, break NC and totally make a fool of yourself, and then regret losing control like that.

 

When you're feeling like that, it's best to put yourself on autopilot. I, Robot... Just go thru the motions. It's the only way to get through it. At least until the strength of these emotions subsides, and you can get your hands around them.

 

When I was going thru something similar, I would DWELLLLLLL on it and totally ignore the good things that were happening in my life. I was unable to, at the time. And I made some pretty poor choices as a result. What finally helped me was resigning myself to it (OK I love this person, can't help it, can't get around it) and realizing I was already at the bottom of the barrel and therefore had nowhere to go but up (OK FINE I'm totally unworthy and unloveable... so I got nothing to lose - take your best shot, it doesn't matter anymore).

 

Only MUCH LATER... when I had calmed down and removed myself from the environment that was stirring it all up, did I realize I wasn't any more unworthy/unloveable than the next girl. It was just "nothing but a thing." Something that happened... but a valuable learning experience nonetheless.

[Owl]

We're actually saying the same thing, Tomcat.

 

I'm simply telling him how to get to that point sooner.

 

Do I honestly expect he's going to get to that point immediately? No. But, if he starts TRYING to get to that point, he'll get there sooner.

 

The suggestions I've given him on how to handle the stress of the situation are exactly the same thing he'd get from a counselor to help him deal with things.

 

Rather than sit there and feel like the situation is hopeless, he'll be MUCH better off if he takes charge of the situation and manages it, rather than just react to it.

 

Make sense?

[stampdaddy]

I write so much, I talk out loud. I scream so loud if you listened, you'd hear me.. You are both right, I am trying to keep busy, I've written out a list of goals, both big and small..I have alot of work to do at MY house, which will include starting to "purge" her things, which will be the hardest thing I've ever done... It's like she died. If you walked into my home, you would never know that she didnt live here.. A closet full of clothes. "Her side of the bed", pictures, statues (those Willow Tree things), her vanity and all of that type of stuff.. perfume, tampons, hair clips, make up, her hair brushes.. Then there are the boxes and boxes of "our" momentos.. cards, letters, souvenirs, ticket stubs, match boxes, wine corks with writing on them of the occasion (Bdays, Xmas, special dinners, trips, date nites, our first snow fight, our first overnite, the rooftop of the Peabody Hotel, etc...) There are Christmas ornaments on the tree already that I will have to take down. And finally, her picture by my bed....

 

SO, how can I not stay busy and thinking at the same time while I purge the love of my life????

 

Had a better nights sleep, so that's a start for TODAY.

 

I am picking alot from EVERYBODY'S posts, so thank you to all, even if it realizing that I am executing some "wrong advise".. This by far is the hardest, most hurtful thing I have ever experienced. She loves me, and I love her, BUT.. I am full of HOPE, hope that somehow, I was building a future for us, laying the groundwork while things on her side came to a close (as they do sometimes), PATIENT enough to abide the time that would be needed for healing and adjustment, time it would take to slowly become WE and patient enough to deal with all that comes along with a situation that we are in, WISE enough from my roads traveled to help us sort through everything, know what is important and what is not as we moved forward, CARING enough to always have my eyes and ears open to her/their needs as we go through this tough period of adjustment and redefinement, LOVING enough to have a heart big enough for all of this, and I DO believe that my heart is big enough...

Now, to be standing here with all of that very powerful emotion just busting to get out, hurts VERY MUCH!

To my MIND: I go back and forth all day long trying to figure out what's going to happen, justifying, predicting by listening to stats, you guys, my friends, her encrypted words, HER HEART, etc.. This is what i CAN'T be doing. I need to work on ME, by working hard, focusing on my family, my house, my futre that may or may not include her. But if I do this and it DOES include her, all the better... It is the ONLY thing I can do.

 

See, my gut, my heart and sometimes my mind, sees her coming here. She wants to grow old with me too, and she sees NO JOY with him.. this has been stated over and over and over. Sometimes when I listen to the littlest and most basic things sparks the HOPE I need to BELIEVE..

 

So for now, I will not say F** it!, I will try to spend all of this energy on ME

[Tomcat33]

Open Book / Owl again we are all describing the same thing

 

I think my posts have been unclear and that's what's causing the confusion because I read what you are saying and I am thinking the same thing...

 

You can't dwell on pain forever, and you can go into autopilot and go through the motions and not deal with everything and miss out on "good opportunities around you" but it would not happen any other way. Think about it, what's to "miss a good opportunity around you?" Is it a possibility to be with someone that CAN make you happy? not a chance. your heart is not ready for that and you are not there emotionally the pain would go away immediately and then the deep unresolved sorrow would come again and ultimately you can doom the progress of the relationship.

If we are talking about missed opportunities in terms of work or terms of life changes, perhaps, but if we take on a big change in our life when we are going through the early stages of grief we might make everything worse. I guess it depends on the person. They say you should not make big changes when you are already going through a big change like a break up it is too much, and I can see why.

 

The bottom line really and what I have been trying to convey perhaps very poorly, is that we all have our times our length of time that we need to experience things. What I see for Stamp it is that it is still too too soon, he broke up a week ago?? Remember how you were a week a or even a month after a break up? I could understand the idea that you have to help yourself get out of the funk but it's like losing someone to death, in the early stages you can't force yourself to go out and face the world and take on new things as if nothing to keep yourself preoccupied you have to sit and cry yourself to sleep and walk around like a zombie and generally purge the feeling of loss, it is a huge shock to the system that needs to be dealt with. A break up is no different we need to process its end we need to process the idea that this person is gone and is not comming back.

 

Acceptance I am all for it, but even that takes little bit of time to reach.

 

Clear as mud?

[luvmy2ns]

you've just described exactly what I said!

 

He needs to come to his "f@#K this" day on his own, not because it's what's expected.

 

But I didn't even realize I needed a "f this" day until one of my friends rattled my cage and broke me out of my stupor (or should I say stupid?). People can dwell waaayyyy too long, much to their own detriment, if they don't just make the decision to stop. So no. I didn't describe exactly what you said.

[luvmy2ns]

So for now, I will not say F** it!, I will try to spend all of this energy on ME

 

When I said "f this" that's exactly what I meant. Quit spending your energy on her, i.e. dwelling on the past. Spend it on you!

[Tomcat33]

But I didn't even realize I needed a "f this" day until one of my friends rattled my cage and broke me out of my stupor (or should I say stupid?). People can dwell waaayyyy too long, much to their own detriment, if they don't just make the decision to stop. So no. I didn't describe exactly what you said.

 

 

 

Yeah but Stamp is reaching out and processing the advice that is being put forth discussing his situation with other people who have also been in his shoes. Where you also doing that two or three days post trauma?

 

I don't fear that he will let this drag on for the simple fact that he's reached out now.

 

Stamp does know he needs an F this day because he is assuring us he is taking it in, so yeah you two are different.