stampdaddy Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 Well, kinda how I pictured it. There she was, standing at more door, wet from the rain, crying and sad.... Of course I brought her in, BUT, I kept hearing all of YOUR voices (God, was that eerie: "kick her ass out!, hold her! give her 5 minutes! give her forever! tell her to go! tell her to stay! AND who was that that screamed, "kiss her ya fool...") Anyway, she did'nt know why she was here, but then she did.. They had a "meeting" yesterday and she was all beat up.. The topic of the letters around her house came up and I guess the H and counselor were waiting for her to burn them in a bucket or something, but she said NO.. She laid around this morning just sobbing before H went to work, and then after.. She came to tell me that she loves me and was afraid that I would forget that. She knows what she is doing NC is right, and that's when I said, "then why are you here?" She completely broke down.. I told her YES, I have put all of my eggs in this basket of ours, I love you. BUT, you are right! You MUST do this NC. I DO believe in you, I DO believe in me and I DO believe in US. I have alot to hold onto here. I have alot of work to do. I have alot of responisibilities, and SO DO YOU.... NOW GO TO WORK, and do not come back until you can come back... She told me that in counseling that she was flat out asked where she is at, and she replied, "my body is here, but my heart is with him (me), I LOVE HIM AND I DO NOT LOVE H" Anyway, I hope I made some of you proud about telling her to not come back until she can.. Sorry to others upset with me for letting her in the door...
whichwayisup Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 What she is doing hasn't changed..Giving you hope, and still trying to work on her marriage. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR HER to keep the door open with you and try to fix her marriage..And you just confirmed this for her by saying, "You MUST do this NC. I DO believe in you, I DO believe in me and I DO believe in US. I have alot to hold onto here. I have alot of work to do. I have alot of responisibilities, and SO DO YOU.... NOW GO TO WORK, and do not come back until you can come back... She told me that in counseling that she was flat out asked where she is at, and she replied, "my body is here, but my heart is with him (me), I LOVE HIM AND I DO NOT LOVE H" She isn't being honest with her husband at all, and her not doing what he asked, to burn the letters, just shows him she isn't serious about ending the A with you, let alone get over you. You encouraged her as well, not to go to him, but to work things out so she can come back to you. How can she work on her marriage and not let go of you? She's in a bad spot, by choice, so I'm having abit of a hard time with giving her sympathy because she still isn't being honest.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 What she is doing hasn't changed..Giving you hope, and still trying to work on her marriage. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR HER to keep the door open with you and try to fix her marriage..And you just confirmed this for her by saying, "You MUST do this NC. I DO believe in you, I DO believe in me and I DO believe in US. I have alot to hold onto here. I have alot of work to do. I have alot of responisibilities, and SO DO YOU.... NOW GO TO WORK, and do not come back until you can come back... She told me that in counseling that she was flat out asked where she is at, and she replied, "my body is here, but my heart is with him (me), I LOVE HIM AND I DO NOT LOVE H" She isn't being honest with her husband at all, and her not doing what he asked, to burn the letters, just shows him she isn't serious about ending the A with you, let alone get over you. You encouraged her as well, not to go to him, but to work things out so she can come back to you. How can she work on her marriage and not let go of you? She's in a bad spot, by choice, so I'm having abit of a hard time with giving her sympathy because she still isn't being honest. Well, I love her, BUT I don't have much sympathy either. Actually, I encouraged her to go work on whatever it is she's going to work on, but just don't come back until the job is done (or don't come back..) soory to confuse
whichwayisup Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 I DO believe in you, I DO believe in me and I DO believe in US. I have alot to hold onto here yeah, but when you tell her stuff like this, you're encouraging her to NOT let go of you. You need to stand up and be stronger, NOT talk to her about it as now her marriage isn't your business, not that it was to begin with. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, I guess because you do have invested interest in this, she shouldn't be talking to you about her marriage and any details of what's going on. Infact the next time she shows up or calls you like she did today, you should send her back home and not have the conversation with her that you had today..
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 yeah, but when you tell her stuff like this, you're encouraging her to NOT let go of you. You need to stand up and be stronger, NOT talk to her about it as now her marriage isn't your business, not that it was to begin with. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, I guess because you do have invested interest in this, she shouldn't be talking to you about her marriage and any details of what's going on. Infact the next time she shows up or calls you like she did today, you should send her back home and not have the conversation with her that you had today.. Thought I made myself clear.. DONT COME BACK UNTIL YOU CAN COME BACK
Meaplus3 Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 Thought I made myself clear.. DONT COME BACK UNTIL YOU CAN COME BACK That's not making it clear at all! She's cheating on her spouse "CAN COME BACK"? She's a cheat I'm VERY sure she will come back even though she can't understand? Your beign lead on here and your leading her on as well. Don't you smell the hurt that is to come from this? AP:)
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 yeah, but when you tell her stuff like this, you're encouraging her to NOT let go of you. You need to stand up and be stronger, NOT talk to her about it as now her marriage isn't your business, not that it was to begin with. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, I guess because you do have invested interest in this, she shouldn't be talking to you about her marriage and any details of what's going on. Infact the next time she shows up or calls you like she did today, you should send her back home and not have the conversation with her that you had today.. Listen WW, I am NOT an expert, that's is why I am here. I didnt ask her to show, she did though.. I gave her 1/2 an hour or so, and that's it. She could have stayed all day, BUT, i got her out of the door. DONT BEAT ME UP, I do love her, I do believe in her, I do believe in me, and YES, I DO BELIEVE IN US, IF we are ever US. RIght now we are not, and if one day she comes back, WHEN she can come back, then we WILL be us... Quit slapping me around..
Ms. Red Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 SD, I've been reading your story. I don't post much because I'm here to learn things for my situation. So, if I do post, I think it out & make sure I really feel what I'm saying. I had a thought while reading one of your other threads & have that thought again. I knew early in my marriage it was not good. But, I hung in there for our son. I was pregnant before our first anniversary. I lived for years like a room mate with my H because I didn't want to be the one to break up our son's home. I despise divorce & was determined to have our son brought up with Mommy & Daddy in the home unlike so many children today. So, I did everything I could to make my H miserable in this marriage so HE would be the one to break up the family. Well, he felt the same way as I did & he didn't want to be the ONE who broke up the family. We lasted like that for 13 years! He finally betrayed me so bad 15 months ago (not an A, but a family related issue) that I told him to get the F*** out during a heated fight regarding the issue. Once I said that, he was able to leave and tell everyone that I had kicked him out. He doesn't look like the one who broke up our son's family now. He let's everyone know the "I" kicked "him" out. What if your MW & her H are doing the same thing? I can't help but think that may be the case when she refused to burn the letters. Or, she blatantly says her heart is with you. What if they both stay stubborn for the children's sake? I may be completely off but, I just wanted to give you my thoughts.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 SD, I've been reading your story. I don't post much because I'm here to learn things for my situation. So, if I do post, I think it out & make sure I really feel what I'm saying. I had a thought while reading one of your other threads & have that thought again. I knew early in my marriage it was not good. But, I hung in there for our son. I was pregnant before our first anniversary. I lived for years like a room mate with my H because I didn't want to be the one to break up our son's home. I despise divorce & was determined to have our son brought up with Mommy & Daddy in the home unlike so many children today. So, I did everything I could to make my H miserable in this marriage so HE would be the one to break up the family. Well, he felt the same way as I did & he didn't want to be the ONE who broke up the family. We lasted like that for 13 years! He finally betrayed me so bad 15 months ago (not an A, but a family related issue) that I told him to get the F*** out during a heated fight regarding the issue. Once I said that, he was able to leave and tell everyone that I had kicked him out. He doesn't look like the one who broke up our son's family now. He let's everyone know the "I" kicked "him" out. What if your MW & her H are doing the same thing? I can't help but think that may be the case when she refused to burn the letters. Or, she blatantly says her heart is with you. What if they both stay stubborn for the children's sake? I may be completely off but, I just wanted to give you my thoughts. Cute puppy... Anyway thanks for the RARE post.. I'm flattered.. I am VERY SORRY for your situation. Are you familiar with DAZED? He has been here a long time, and he posted the other day (see Update from Dazed on Infidelity), and his Ex did the same.. Anyway, Yes Maam, in a way, you could be correct. I know the MW does not want to "look bad" as THE ONE, and the H despises Divorce, thinks ONLY LOSERS get divorced. So yes, this is a challenge.. She did say to me when I approached her with "similar" worry, that she WOULDNT be "selfless" she wouldnt "sacrifice" herself... So, we'll see.. Thanks for the post. And how are YOU doing hun??
norajane Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 She came to tell me that she loves me and was afraid that I would forget that.She came over to check up on you and make sure that you were still on the other end of her leash, waiting and waiting and waiting for her. And you reassured her that you would wait and wait and wait for her. That's all that happened.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 She came over to check up on you and make sure that you were still on the other end of her leash, waiting and waiting and waiting for her. And you reassured her that you would wait and wait and wait for her. That's all that happened. Where have you been NJ? Have been waiting for you.. Don't know what to say to that, EXCEPT THAT I FEEL BETTER ABOUT 'MY" TOMORROW.. And let me tell you, I DO NOT have much HOPE for US..... I think she will stay... How's that??
norajane Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 Where have you been NJ? Have been waiting for you.. Don't know what to say to that, EXCEPT THAT I FEEL BETTER ABOUT 'MY" TOMORROW.. And let me tell you, I DO NOT have much HOPE for US..... I think she will stay... How's that?? Do you really feel better about your tomorrow? Why?
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 Do you really feel better about your tomorrow? Why? Because at least I got out of her that she MAY stay because of the children... So, with all of the "stats", equations, spreadsheets, opinions, the weather, YOU, every body else here, every body else there, El Nino, Palm Readers, Tarot Cards, etc.... The sun will rise tomorrow, I will wake up NOT KNOWING A F****ING THING..... So my ONLY choice is to work hard, not get all wrapped up in this thing, and BELIEVE, that is her and I are meant to be, we will be. And if she chooses to stay with her children, then I will still love her and them..
Tomcat33 Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 WOW Stamp you did the right thing!! GOOD FOR YOU!! I don't know how much more clear you can be with her. You are not going to make her do anything she does not want or need to do, you laid your ground down as far as what concerns you and her the rest is up to her you have absolutely have no power over her situation with her H either way. I am so impressed you were that strong with her! Good going Stamp!! You let her know you love her but the rules are as they are. That is all you can do really concentrate on your rules with HER. If she thinks you are still there, she owns those thoughts/feelings you stick to your side of the bargain and be true to what you say and be firm. Maybe she needs to know that in order to determine what she needs to do. Lets face it if she loves her husband so much and really wants to work things out it doesn't matter that you are there or not she will go to it anyway. Look what she needs from you is irrelevant, it's what you give her that is. You go on with your life and stick to your guns if she wants to reach out to you she will at times you might respond but there will come a day when you will feel mighty strong and you will be able to say NO more. If she is only looking for something on the side well then she will eventually get the hint that your door is closed, but if she is looking to figure her heart out well she will be right back to you when the time is right. Again Stamp very impressed you handled it so well!
Ms. Red Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 Cute puppy... Anyway thanks for the RARE post.. I'm flattered.. I am VERY SORRY for your situation. Are you familiar with DAZED? He has been here a long time, and he posted the other day (see Update from Dazed on Infidelity), and his Ex did the same.. Anyway, Yes Maam, in a way, you could be correct. I know the MW does not want to "look bad" as THE ONE, and the H despises Divorce, thinks ONLY LOSERS get divorced. So yes, this is a challenge.. She did say to me when I approached her with "similar" worry, that she WOULDNT be "selfless" she wouldnt "sacrifice" herself... So, we'll see.. Thanks for the post. And how are YOU doing hun?? I'm doing good. Thanx for asking. I'm in a posting mood so it seems. This is my 4th post today. LoL I realized after my H moved out that we really were doing our son wrong. We were showing him what a marriage ISN'T. We had not slept in the same bed in so many years that our son didn't even remember when we did. We never did fight around our son. In fact the rare occasions where we did some yelling he would freak out because he wasn't used to seeing it. But, he was not seeing how a loving H & W treat each other either. My H ended up moving so close that our son who is now 12, can walk or ride his bike to & from our places. We let him choose where he wants to stay. And, he's happy with the situation. My H & I get along a lot better now. We are better co-parents than when we lived together as H & W. As for me, I'm taking a break from relationships. I've went from one relationship to the next since I was 15 years old. I am now 41 & need to just be with me, myself & I for the time being. Oh yeah, not familiar with Dazed. I will search & read up on that. It would be nice to hear a similar story. I could fit in so many categories on this site. That is another reason I mainly just read up & rarely post. I'm still sorting out my life inside my own head & not even sure if I need advice.
Tomcat33 Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 PS Stamp you are not responsible for what is going to happen in her marriage, she and her husband are responsible for that. All you can do is do your part, their marriage is their responsibilty you are not to be held accountable for their inability to make it work or ability to make it happen. It really is not your responsibilty. Sorry WWIU but I disagree if she keeps lying to her husband and is not willing to burn those letters it is NOT Stamps responsibility he did his part the rest is up to her and he cannot be held accountable for what the woman is willing or not to do to recover her marriage. that's not fair at all.
whichwayisup Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 I'm saying that she should not be telling him this stuff. Any stuff now that goes on in her marriage, detail wise, should not be shared with him. The less detail HE knows, the better off he is, that is what I meant. Maybe how I wrote it didn't read that way, sorry. I didn't say he is accountable for how she acts in the marriage, but he is accountable for his part in letting her know over and over again that he is waiting, he is loving her and talking about the "us" again. He is putting himself in place that will only hurt him by doing that. NID summed it up earlier. I think it was her, if not I will go back and check on that.
Tomcat33 Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 I'm saying that she should not be telling him this stuff. Any stuff now that goes on in her marriage, detail wise, should not be shared with him. The less detail HE knows, the better off he is, that is what I meant. Maybe how I wrote it didn't read that way, sorry. I didn't say he is accountable for how she acts in the marriage, but he is accountable for his part in letting her know over and over again that he is waiting, he is loving her and talking about the "us" again. He is putting himself in place that will only hurt him by doing that. NID summed it up earlier. I think it was her, if not I will go back and check on that. Ok I misundertood then I apologise. I dunnow speaking from my own experience and understanding the cycle of inner recovery, I think he handled it just fine. I know that from a BS stand point it may not be the ideal way to handle things maybe a BS would want Sample to just dissapear forver so that the marriage could be saved for good, but the reality is he exists and what they had exists what happens beyond this point is really left up to what is has to be. I have to agree if he keeps telling her over and over again that he is waiting that defeats the purpose of what he is doing. I missed that though....
whichwayisup Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 It just gives her more power, by him telling her I am here, waiting, I love you etc... She needs to see that he is busy, doing stuff with his life and not pining for her, waiting..
Tomcat33 Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 It just gives her more power, by him telling her I am here, waiting, I love you etc... She needs to see that he is busy, doing stuff with his life and not pining for her, waiting.. Agreed! "I love you" I think is fine but no more guarantees. She needs to understand his life is going on because they are broken up and because he needs to get on with his life. Which is why it is crucial that she sees that he is firm with his actions, but I do understand that it is hard to pretend when she reaches out now. It's still too soon. In a bit of time he won't have to pretend he will be fine and she can't dismiss his aura. Nothing says "instant attaction" more than a happy demeanour and a busy life. but it all takes time, again it's all too fresh.
JMC Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 SD, I've been reading your story. I don't post much because I'm here to learn things for my situation. So, if I do post, I think it out & make sure I really feel what I'm saying. I had a thought while reading one of your other threads & have that thought again. I knew early in my marriage it was not good. But, I hung in there for our son. I was pregnant before our first anniversary. I lived for years like a room mate with my H because I didn't want to be the one to break up our son's home. I despise divorce & was determined to have our son brought up with Mommy & Daddy in the home unlike so many children today. So, I did everything I could to make my H miserable in this marriage so HE would be the one to break up the family. Well, he felt the same way as I did & he didn't want to be the ONE who broke up the family. We lasted like that for 13 years! He finally betrayed me so bad 15 months ago (not an A, but a family related issue) that I told him to get the F*** out during a heated fight regarding the issue. Once I said that, he was able to leave and tell everyone that I had kicked him out. He doesn't look like the one who broke up our son's family now. He let's everyone know the "I" kicked "him" out. What if your MW & her H are doing the same thing? I can't help but think that may be the case when she refused to burn the letters. Or, she blatantly says her heart is with you. What if they both stay stubborn for the children's sake? I may be completely off but, I just wanted to give you my thoughts. I'm wondering if this is what is going on with my MM. Why do married couples sometimes do this? It is so hard for me to understand the complexities of a long-term marital relationship, because I haven't had one (had a short one long time ago). Why is it all so complex??!!!!!!! Why can't they (anyone, any "they" who's married) just freaking split??? Why is it like pulling teeth, or finding hen's teeth, or finding a needle in a haystack??? I don't understand and I want to....argh it's so frustrating. And Stampdaddy, haven't posted to you yet (I don't think?) but you seem awesome. I hate to admit this, but I'm jealous of your MW and don't think she deserves you!!!!! A lot of women prolly wish they could find someone like you: strong, devoted beyond belief, very expressive, in touch with feelings, romantic, etc. After reading so much of your story, my God I feel like just going up to your MW and telling her to just freaking leave already!!! ARRRRGHHHH!!!! I don't understand this limbo she's in. Can someone explain that limbo, or why couples don't want to be "the one" who breaks things up, as Ms. Red wrote about?
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 WOW Stamp you did the right thing!! GOOD FOR YOU!! I don't know how much more clear you can be with her. You are not going to make her do anything she does not want or need to do, you laid your ground down as far as what concerns you and her the rest is up to her you have absolutely have no power over her situation with her H either way. I am so impressed you were that strong with her! Good going Stamp!! You let her know you love her but the rules are as they are. That is all you can do really concentrate on your rules with HER. If she thinks you are still there, she owns those thoughts/feelings you stick to your side of the bargain and be true to what you say and be firm. Maybe she needs to know that in order to determine what she needs to do. Lets face it if she loves her husband so much and really wants to work things out it doesn't matter that you are there or not she will go to it anyway. Look what she needs from you is irrelevant, it's what you give her that is. You go on with your life and stick to your guns if she wants to reach out to you she will at times you might respond but there will come a day when you will feel mighty strong and you will be able to say NO more. If she is only looking for something on the side well then she will eventually get the hint that your door is closed, but if she is looking to figure her heart out well she will be right back to you when the time is right. Again Stamp very impressed you handled it so well!Thanks alot, I'm trying
Author stampdaddy Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 Agreed! "I love you" I think is fine but no more guarantees. She needs to understand his life is going on because they are broken up and because he needs to get on with his life. Which is why it is crucial that she sees that he is firm with his actions, but I do understand that it is hard to pretend when she reaches out now. It's still too soon. In a bit of time he won't have to pretend he will be fine and she can't dismiss his aura. Nothing says "instant attaction" more than a happy demeanour and a busy life. but it all takes time, again it's all too fresh. NOTHING BETTER COULD HAVE BEEN SAID!!! THANK YOU
Owl Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 I'm wondering if this is what is going on with my MM. Why do married couples sometimes do this? It is so hard for me to understand the complexities of a long-term marital relationship, because I haven't had one (had a short one long time ago). Why is it all so complex??!!!!!!! Why can't they (anyone, any "they" who's married) just freaking split??? Why is it like pulling teeth, or finding hen's teeth, or finding a needle in a haystack??? I don't understand and I want to....argh it's so frustrating. That's because a long term marriage/relationship has a lot of 'emotional weight' behind it. There is far more emotional investment in this relationship than there is in a shorter term, less committed one. The choice to split isn't something that should be lightly made...just like the choice to marry. Remember, love goes through a lot of changes over a long term relationship...that's why there's such a huge difference between the "in love" rush of feelings in a new relationship vs the 'love' feelings of a long term marriage. Its not 'new and exciting'...but it can be very familiar and comforting. And...a long term relationship always has its cycles of ups and downs. Sometimes it takes time to determine if this is just another "down" time vs a real indication that the marriage/relationship is truly facing its end. Does that help make things a little easier to understand?
Owl Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 I think you did pretty well, SD. I'd say that you need to start setting some stronger boundaries of your own with MW in the future, but for a 'first pass', you did pretty good. I know that its 'not your job' to keep her family or her H's welfare in mind...but given that their welfare is interwoven with MW's, it makes sense that you need to help her make the right decisions here. Remember...work on taking care of YOURSELF right now. And remember...in order for this NC to do any good, it needs to be in pace, uninterrupted, for at LEAST 30 days...with 45 being far more preferable. And tonite was a setback on that clock...it starts over from tonite. Hang in there friend...you WILL find things looking less bleak in the future. Its just hard to see it right now.
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