curious_chimera Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 I've been married 27 years and am feeling more on the brink of divorce than ever before. My wife and I have been in separate bedrooms for years and are basically at the "roommate" stage (no sex for years). This might have gone on indefinitely but we are at a crisis with our adult son (age 23) who is a convicted felon and a heroin addict. He is up for parole this spring and he wants to move back in with us. I do NOT want him living with us ... he lies and steals constantly and won't stop using drugs or make any serious attempts to get clean. But my wife is in a codependent/enabling relationship with him. I tried being firm and saying "no way" but she told me, point blank, that if I don't like this then I can leave. No problem, right? He moves in, I leave. Simple? No. We've been at this point several times in our marriage and I know, from experience, that my wife would rather eat broken glass covered with battery acid than get a divorce. She once told me that a phony "marriage of convenience" would be more palatable to her than a divorce (think "American Beauty" here with Kevin Spacey living in the garage). Keeping up appearances is HUGELY important to her. So I know that her threat is just that, a threat. A couple of times in the past she has said "get out" and when I start packing a bag she freaks and begs me to stay. Also, every time divorce has come up in the past, she immediately accuses me of having a girlfriend. Not true. The idea that I might just be unhappy in the relationship doesn't figure into her thinking at all. So I feel stuck. If she lets the addict kid back into the house and I move out, she'll go bananas and pull out all the stops to get me to come back. Then if I don't, it'll be "who's your girlfriend?" UGH. I think the marriage is basically over anyway, but she wants to keep up the illusion of a happy family at all costs. I am sick of faking this. The kids are grown up, her mom is dead and her father has Alzheimer's, so I don't see any big upside to maintaining this illusion AND housing a kid who is watching me like a hawk to see if I forget to take my wallet with me when I take a shower.
LakesideDream Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 I feel for you. I too had a child with drug problems (not "issues"), who thankfully grew out of it. If your marriage is truely as dysfunctional as you say, there is no reason for you to stay any longer. Pack your bags and hit the road. If you were female, you wouldn't even be worrying about the decision, you'd have a support system in place and a new lover waiting in the wings. Be an insperation to men everywhere and play the "walkaway" card ! Oh, please don't forget to deliver the "I need space" and "It's not you it's me" speach as well.
Crestfallen_KH Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 "Pack your bags and hit the road. If you were female, you wouldn't even be worrying about the decision, you'd have a support system in place and a new lover waiting in the wings." Wow, bitter much? You know, men cheat on women too (prime example here). My ex had a lover "waiting in the wings" and delivered the "ILYBINILWY" speech too. Stereotyping women in this way says a lot more about you than it does about women. Chimera, I certainly wouldn't expect from your post that I would have all of the information needed to make an accurate supposition of whether you should stay or go, but I do think you should hold firm to not letting the son move back into the home. I do agree that would not be in his or your best interests and it seem you have made repeated attempts to help him. I might suggest that you talk to your wife about your feelings. If you have tried in the past and she hasn't heard you, then try a different way. There's got to be some way that she would listen and you might want to even consider marital counseling. In all fairness, we're just getting your side here. What you say may be 100% accurate and true, I can't know that - none of us can, which is why I wouldn't even dream of telling you to leave OR stay. I think that's only a question you can really answer for yourself.
Trimmer Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 With all due respect to Lakeside, the operative consideration here isn't whether to stay and "take one for the team" or leave and "strike a blow for men everywhere..." This is about you and your decision, you don't need the added pressure of being an inspiration - or anything else - in anyone's eyes. It appears to me that you are in a position of power, only you don't recognize it, because you have yielded that power within your relationship. Look, leaving is NEVER easy. It is hard, painful, heart-wrenching, costly, etc... The list goes on. If you are hoping for the ability to walk out the door immediately into a sunny new life where everything is calm and tidy and orderly right away, that's not how it works. But the fact is, sometimes if you decide that you've exhausted all other possibilities, and that leaving is the thing you need to do, then you buckle down, and you say: I'll do the hard, painful work of getting through this so that I can build a different life that I believe in. So if you decide that leaving is what you need to do, what is your obstacle to accomplishing this? As carefully as I read and re-read your post, it sounds like it all boils down to her reaction, doesn't it? You haven't described any other leverage she holds in this situation. Is that really all that stands in your way? I'll return to my earlier point: splitting up a marriage is hard, under even the "best" and most civil of circumstances. Don't expect it to be easy, but do consider your life some distance down the road. Can you imagine yourself fulfilled in any of these scenarios in one or two or five years: (1) Still with the wife, son living at home - are there any conceivable chances for rehabilitation, treatment, etc? Any chances for reconciliation within the marriage? (2) Somehow, son doesn't live at home (perhaps you take a stand that she finally believes,) and you stay married. Let's say she "gives you this one" and doesn't allow your son to move back in. Is there any chance the two of you might work together on reconciling the marriage within this scenario? If not, can you forsee being fulfilled maintaining the status quo. (In other words, if your son wasn't part of the equation, would you just continue on as you are now?) (3) You leave, you deal with a tempest for some period of time, but even as that difficult work is going on, you also immediately begin working towards a new life for yourself on your terms. I realize that my comments read a little biased, so you can probably tell which way I'm leaning from what little I can infer from your first post. In the end, though, it is a decision you have to make, but consider the possible scenarios and where you want to end up in life. Just to reiterate: if you do decide to leave, I'm not saying it will be easy, and I don't mean to minimize the difficulty of that decision and its aftermath. But I also think there's a large degree to which you are seeing a big obstacle in front of you which is really a mirage, and which consists of little more than her responses to the situation. Are there any other pertinent details you can share? Any other kids in the equation? Extended family pressures or problems? Financial issues, in terms of who supports who? Is there anything other than her reaction preventing you from walking out, should you decide that's your preferred course?
White Flower Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 I feel for you. I too had a child with drug problems (not "issues"), who thankfully grew out of it. If your marriage is truely as dysfunctional as you say, there is no reason for you to stay any longer. Pack your bags and hit the road. If you were female, you wouldn't even be worrying about the decision, you'd have a support system in place and a new lover waiting in the wings. Be an insperation to men everywhere and play the "walkaway" card ! Oh, please don't forget to deliver the "I need space" and "It's not you it's me" speach as well. I agree he should leave, but disagree about the support system and someone waiting in the wings for women in general. When it boils down to the nitty gritty we don't always have it all.
marlena Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 CC, In my opinion you have a bigger problem than deciding on whether or not to divorce your wife. What I find most alarming is your son's addiction and criminal record. Twenty three is a still a very young age. When he gets out of prison, he will need a lot of support, love and guidance. Perhaps, you and your wife could set aside all personal problems for the time being and join forces in an effort to help your son deal with his drug problem and criminal proclivities. This, I think, should be your overriding concern right now. He needs you BOTH now more than ever. Could this be an impetus to work with your wife towards a common goal? You never know. In so doing, you and your wife just might move closer to one another. I think this is a time to rally around your son and give him the help he deserves. Please, don't give up on him at such a difficult turning point in his life. There is time to think about divorce after you have done all you can to help your son escape from the nightmare that has become his life. MArlena
LakesideDream Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 Bitter? Sure I am, never said otherwise. Wrong, maybe, I'm not perfect. I've said many times that you don't get over betrayal (25 years of marriage in my case), you learn to live through it. As for my "waiting in the wings lover / support system" comment. Franky, women are much more likely to do just that than men are. Women are much more likely to have alternatives in place before making a move. In General.... Also, "In general" men are more likely to act on impulse. No doubt many men are cheating scumbags. I've known a few and don't choose to associate with them. In my experiance though, men are more prone to stay in the original relationship often because they realize they have no other place to go. That same experiance has seen that women create a place to go from the get go. By the time they are ready to leave they usually have a whole new life planned out. I could be wrong, heck, I'm just a bitter old man.
nittygritty Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 Has the fear of her reaction to legally divorcing really been the only reason you have not physically left? I ask because your post sounds like emotionally the two of you have already been living like your divorced for some time. The painful problems with your son will still be there. Whether you legally divorce or not. Its understandable why you would not want your son to move back home after he gets out. Nor would it probably be whats best for his recovery. Good professional counseling may help you and/or your wife find solutions to handling the painful family problems associated with having a son who suffers with drug addiction. Al-Anon is helpful as well.
Phateless Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 I've been married 27 years and am feeling more on the brink of divorce than ever before. My wife and I have been in separate bedrooms for years and are basically at the "roommate" stage (no sex for years). This might have gone on indefinitely but we are at a crisis with our adult son (age 23) who is a convicted felon and a heroin addict. He is up for parole this spring and he wants to move back in with us. I do NOT want him living with us ... he lies and steals constantly and won't stop using drugs or make any serious attempts to get clean. But my wife is in a codependent/enabling relationship with him. I tried being firm and saying "no way" but she told me, point blank, that if I don't like this then I can leave. No problem, right? He moves in, I leave. Simple? No. We've been at this point several times in our marriage and I know, from experience, that my wife would rather eat broken glass covered with battery acid than get a divorce. She once told me that a phony "marriage of convenience" would be more palatable to her than a divorce (think "American Beauty" here with Kevin Spacey living in the garage). Keeping up appearances is HUGELY important to her. So I know that her threat is just that, a threat. A couple of times in the past she has said "get out" and when I start packing a bag she freaks and begs me to stay. Also, every time divorce has come up in the past, she immediately accuses me of having a girlfriend. Not true. The idea that I might just be unhappy in the relationship doesn't figure into her thinking at all. So I feel stuck. If she lets the addict kid back into the house and I move out, she'll go bananas and pull out all the stops to get me to come back. Then if I don't, it'll be "who's your girlfriend?" UGH. I think the marriage is basically over anyway, but she wants to keep up the illusion of a happy family at all costs. I am sick of faking this. The kids are grown up, her mom is dead and her father has Alzheimer's, so I don't see any big upside to maintaining this illusion AND housing a kid who is watching me like a hawk to see if I forget to take my wallet with me when I take a shower. My only question to you is - why on earth didn't you leave years ago? It sounds like you get nothing out of this relationship. Get the hell out!! Screw her, you don't owe her anything at this point. You should respect yourself more than that.
Author curious_chimera Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. Here's some more information: I also have a daughter, age 18, still living at home and attending college locally. She recently got engaged and her fiance seems to be at our house all the time. Sometimes I think I should stay until she is married to him and out of the house, but they don't seem to be in any hurry to set a date. My wife and I both work and make a good living. I make about twice as much as she does, however. Without my income she is going to have problems with the mortgage payments. She also showers our daughter with money (she recently gave daughter her own credit card, without consulting me first, and has generally discouraged her from working). That will also be a problem if I leave. To the person who mentioned that we should devote all of our efforts to saving our son: That's what we've been doing for the past six years -- two expensive stints in rehab, thousands of dollars for bail and attorneys, thousands of dollars setting him up on a "new life" every year. It hasn't worked. All the counselors we've consulted say we should just let go and let him handle his own life, but my wife refuses to do that; she's a codependent. To the person who thought women always had a support system when they leave: I don't know if that's true but I do feel I have no place to go. I have no relatives or close friends in the area. My head is spinning trying to think of where I'd live after I was gone. I haven't rented an apartment in 20 years. This part scares me to death. What if I leave and my wife closes our bank account? I should also add that my wife entered counseling a couple of years ago and started taking Zoloft. The result of that is that she's always weirdly cheerful and insists that our dysfunctional marriage is wonderful. Somehow that makes this even harder. If she was constantly angry or moping this would somehow be easier. I still don't know what to do but I think I need to talk to a counselor.
redblack66 Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 To the person who mentioned that we should devote all of our efforts to saving our son: That's what we've been doing for the past six years -- two expensive stints in rehab, thousands of dollars for bail and attorneys, thousands of dollars setting him up on a "new life" every year. It hasn't worked. All the counselors we've consulted say we should just let go and let him handle his own life, but my wife refuses to do that; she's a codependent. I would search on the Web "tough love" and research this topic. It applies to children, not only spouses.
Phateless Posted December 12, 2007 Posted December 12, 2007 Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. Here's some more information: I also have a daughter, age 18, still living at home and attending college locally. She recently got engaged and her fiance seems to be at our house all the time. Sometimes I think I should stay until she is married to him and out of the house, but they don't seem to be in any hurry to set a date. My wife and I both work and make a good living. I make about twice as much as she does, however. Without my income she is going to have problems with the mortgage payments. She also showers our daughter with money (she recently gave daughter her own credit card, without consulting me first, and has generally discouraged her from working). That will also be a problem if I leave. To the person who mentioned that we should devote all of our efforts to saving our son: That's what we've been doing for the past six years -- two expensive stints in rehab, thousands of dollars for bail and attorneys, thousands of dollars setting him up on a "new life" every year. It hasn't worked. All the counselors we've consulted say we should just let go and let him handle his own life, but my wife refuses to do that; she's a codependent. To the person who thought women always had a support system when they leave: I don't know if that's true but I do feel I have no place to go. I have no relatives or close friends in the area. My head is spinning trying to think of where I'd live after I was gone. I haven't rented an apartment in 20 years. This part scares me to death. What if I leave and my wife closes our bank account? I should also add that my wife entered counseling a couple of years ago and started taking Zoloft. The result of that is that she's always weirdly cheerful and insists that our dysfunctional marriage is wonderful. Somehow that makes this even harder. If she was constantly angry or moping this would somehow be easier. I still don't know what to do but I think I need to talk to a counselor. This will probably be the single hardest thing you've ever gone through in your life... Which is exactly why you need to go ahead and do it. This will prove to you, irrevocably, that you can handle anything and you will be 100 times better on the other side. All that stuff is scary, but you can do it. You just have to stand up for yourself and be a man. What's going on isn't right. Also, watch the movie "i think i love my wife" it's about a similar situation.
Author curious_chimera Posted December 12, 2007 Author Posted December 12, 2007 It appears to me that you are in a position of power, only you don't recognize it, because you have yielded that power within your relationship. I think you're right about this. I have constantly yielded power in our marriage and the result is that I feel like I have no say over anything except what shaving cream I use. The weird thing is that I'll sometimes overhear my wife talking to her sister on the phone and she makes me sound like the bossiest person alive. So if you decide that leaving is what you need to do, what is your obstacle to accomplishing this? As carefully as I read and re-read your post, it sounds like it all boils down to her reaction, doesn't it? You haven't described any other leverage she holds in this situation. Is that really all that stands in your way? Pretty much true. My wife holds a lot of psychological power over me and I'm sure that when I say "I'm leaving" she'll try to make me feel like a selfish, spoiled child. And this will work; I'll feel deeply ashamed for even bringing it up. We have fought over these issues recently and the gist of her response to me is "Stop thinking about yourself so much." At those times I feel that she just wants to eradicate every last trace of my will.
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