I'm starting to resent my wife

[noirx]

Well, as some had predicted, I am back here on LS. I had posted a thread back in July about the issues with my fiance and (against all your intelligent suggestions) opted to proceed with my wedding anyway. Now, it has been a few months and I feel like I am starting to resent my wife.

 

My basic issue with her is that she has no passion. It has been a sticking point since the beginning of our relationship. She treats sex with me like it is a priority right beneath making sure the towels in the bathroom all match. I on the other hand have tried to make her feel like I desire her with every fibre of my being. She just rejects me, like it is all a joke. I can assure you it is not. We went on our honeymoon, and sex was pretty much like it has been at home. It is like I'm on a union schedule that it can only happen between certain hours, never in any other room but the bedroom. Because of her rejecting me or telling me "We just had sex y-day/this moring" (this is on our honeymoon, mind you) we would never have sex more than once a day. Finally on our honeymoon, I just resorted to masturbating, rather than even trying anymore. Like I said, it pretty much mocks what happens at home. She says the same kinds of hurtful things to me, "You just got some y-day/the day before/this morning what are you whining about?!" Which when I tell her that it makes me feel like I'm a dog and I'm only good enough for whatever scraps she'll dole out to me, she just laughs and says, "You know I'm just kidding when I say that kind of thing". Only I don't find it funny, AT ALL. Especially, when it is true. Or, I get told, "we'll have sex later" and then it never does. The evening ends with her watching TV till she's asleep or telling me later that it is too late. In the morning, sex is a battle, because it is going to make her late for work or she didn't sleep well (if we set the alarm) and wants to go back to sleep. So, basically, I get told it is going to happen and then it doesn't. She doesn't make up for it, she just (and only within the last three months) apologizes kind of like "Oh, I'm sorry - live with it". In the meantime, I think about it and get more frustrated with her. This primarily due to the fact that we're both in our early 30s, we have no kids (yet). I don't think if you really love someone and are passionately in love with them that there should be any boundaries or "only when it is convenient" rule to it.

 

When I bring it up to her that I don't feel like a basic need in the relationship (my need for physical contact and for her to want me) is being met, she always gets defensive and says I'm just trying to make her feel awful and like she is nothing. This is the defense, whether I ask it as a harmless question, try to spark a conversation about it at dinner, or get so frustrated that I start a fight. No matter what, she gets back on her haunches and tells me, "Oh yes, I'm such an awful person. Sorry I'm not perfect like you! Sorry I'm not this perfect little picture of a person you think I should be! You're just interested in making me feel like dirt and that I can't ever do anything right!!"

 

Now, if we were married for 20 years I could see our sex life dwindling, but really it has been this way all along. I could also see this kind of behavior out of her if I wasn't a romantic person. I think I treat her pretty well - flowers, cards, dinner plans, gifts, I do 70% of the housework and yardwork - all on a regular basis. She on the other hand thinks I treat her poorly and that I am an "*******" (to quote her). I've done everything she has asked me to to make her happy; endure time with her friends and family (who she knows I don't like), gone to events I couldn't care less about, etc. to try and show her that even though it is painful, I'll do it because I love her. But this doesn't seem to be enough. She just takes it for granted and isn't passionate towards me. 99% of the time I start any kind of physicality between us, and like I said it has to always be on her terms. Which, I understand - who really wants to have sex when they're not in the mood? But when I am trying to start things with her and she's more interested in the TV, it hurts me. She just says I'm being overly sensitive. When I ask her why she doesn't show any physical passion towards me (or things surrounding that), I get the same answer that she doesn't know and "things don't always have to have a reason, you know!"

 

To compound things, we're expecting next year. So, she's now using that as a scapegoat for all the issues. She's completely oblivious to the fact that they were all there before. Her defense when I try to talk to her about them is the same, now it is just "well, you know I'm pregnant!"

 

I'm pretty miserable at this point and really don't know what to do. I don't want to get divorced a few months into this thing, especially now that we are expecting. I do know that I refuse to live a life without passion (which she just responds with, "I'm just never going to be enough to make you happy, am I?") We've tried counseling, but it always seems like she takes it seriously while we there. Then, shortly (a week or so) later, it's right back to the same thing. Then I get frustrated because I'm doing what I know will make her happy (because it is important to me) but she won't reciprocate. Then I try to discuss it with her, we fight, she says she'll do better, does for a week or so...rinse, repeat. Like I said in the beginning, nothing has been resolved at any point we fight. It always goes back to the way it was and now I have a lot of resentment towards her for all of these unresolved situations. Stuff that she used to do in the past (like oral sex - last time that happen was April) is pretty much non-existent. When I ask her about it, she says it is because she is pregnant. When I then say, "You haven't been since last April" then she uses the wedding planning as the excuse. That's all I get now when it comes to intimacy is excuse after excuse, "Well, the grass needs mowing", "I'm pregnant", "I'm sleepy", "Well, we couldn't have sex on Sunday afternoon, because I had laundry to fold."

 

I finally asked her today, "Do you not want to be married to me? Do you want me to feel unloved? Do you want me to say I want a divorce so you don't have to be the bad guy? Do you want me to cheat on you?" She says, "No, I want us not to argue and get along." Which pretty much conveys to me, "Look, if you'll just do whatever makes me happy and knock off with discussion about passion, things will fine. You suffer without and our lives will be perfect." But as I said, I don't want to live without passion, suffering in silence. I love her very much and I want this to work. But not at the expense of turning into a bitter person...

 

Sorry for the novella. Thanks for listening to me vent. I'll look forward to your replies and suggestions.

[whichwayisup]

I wish you two had worked all this out before getting married...Unfortunately, you knew going in that this was a problem. Did you two get counselling together? If not, go now, otherwise this issue WILL become bigger and bigger and that resentment will turn into rage which might make you want to cheat on your wife.

 

Bottomline is, speak up, speak from your heart and sort this out now together, or end the marriage before it gets worse and both of you get hurt.

[Tomcat33]

Oh my god why in the world did you marry this woman?

 

That sounds absolutely horrible!! I am so sorry for your serious mistake.

[curiousnycgirl]

I see counseling as the only option for you guys, and not just for a session or two - long term counseling. These habits/behaviours have existed for a long time - they won't just go away with one or two sessions.

 

If she responds to the counseling sessions appropriately - as you indicate above - and then slacks off, that is exactly when you two need to next be meeting with the counsellor!

 

The only way to change a bad behaviour (and I would include the way you two react to eachother in this category) is to confront it as it happens, take responsibility/ownership and change it. It is hard work and often very difficult, like quitting smoking, but in the end so very worth it.

[Tripper]

There seems to be 2 issues here. One is the lack of sex and the other is the lack of passion.

 

The lack of sex or perceived lack of sex is less problematic. You need to discuss what her sexual needs are. For example she may be happy with once per week. You on the other hand may want it everyday. Most MC will tell you to find a compromise ie: 3 to 4 times per week. Yeah, I know compromise is a b*t*h.

More to the point is her lack of passion. From reading your thread it sounds like you kinda knew this going in.

Now I must ask, do you or her understand the difference between passion and sex. Passion doesn't always have to lead to sex. Perhaps she's so used to you becoming passionate and then wanting sex, she simply shies away from passion because she doesn't want to have sex. Maybe you need to spend some time on being passionate but not demanding sex. I'm not choosing sides, just throwing out some ideas.

At this point you may want to find a good MC (they're not all equally competent) and really delve into this. There are definite issues here, but it's pointless unless you both open up honestly and completely.

[michaelk]

I'll add my voice to those saying you need counseling. If she goes back to her old behaviors after a week or two, then you need to see the MC every week. Anything less shows a lack of commitment on her part to solving the problem.

 

When I ask her why she doesn't show any physical passion towards me (or things surrounding that), I get the same answer that she doesn't know and "things don't always have to have a reason, you know!"

This is BS. There is a reason for her lack of physical interest, even if she doesn't know what it is. Yet another reason for counseling, although you may find that individual counseling or sex therapy are needed to get to the core of her problem.

 

I think I treat her pretty well - flowers, cards, dinner plans, gifts, I do 70% of the housework and yardwork - all on a regular basis. She on the other hand thinks I treat her poorly and that I am an "*******" (to quote her). I've done everything she has asked me to to make her happy; endure time with her friends and family (who she knows I don't like), gone to events I couldn't care less about, etc. to try and show her that even though it is painful, I'll do it because I love her. But this doesn't seem to be enough.

Even if you didn't have the sex issue, it sounds like you've got other problems that need addressing. You feel you bend over backwards, doing more than your share of work in the marriage, yet she says you treat her poorly and calls you names. What's wrong with this picture? You two have such drastically different views of what's going on, and she seems unwilling to talk about it, giving you a dose of guilt instead. So not only do you lack physical intimacy, you lack emotional intimacy, and this is at least as important if not more so. Why is she so closed off? Why does she get so defensive when you want to talk? Without answers to these questions, I don't see you two having much of a marriage.

[noirx]

Thanks all for your replies.

 

Yeah, I wish we would've worked this out before we got married (or pregnant) as well. You're all absolutely right - I knew this going in and proceeded anyway. So, I guess that I should blame myself for, and is likely where some percentage of the depression (on top of the resentment) is coming from.

 

I've tried to speak up and be perfectly clear with her. The issue is that she doesn't listen. She only hears and focuses on the "I'm criticizing her, trying to make her feel like sh*t" not the issue at hand. Which is, "How can we go about fixing this, together?" She's more focused on the action (sex, passion) and not the result (a need I have in the relationship which makes me happy). Which is what makes me resentful - I ultimately feel like she only cares about my happiness when it is convenient for her.

 

As I've stated, we've tried counseling before we were married. And not just for two sessions, we went for months. He basically said we were going to continue to need therapy and it wasn't something we could fix before we were married (we started in April, went till about Aug, got married in Sept.). So, basically her logic became, "Well, if we can't fix this, then why do you want to postpone the wedding. Either you marry me now or forget it. If you don't believe in my ability to make you happy, then you don't believe in me or us." Again, being the idiot I am and believing we'd be in counseling fixing things, I believed in the two of us and proceeded to get married. Then it became, "Well, we can't go, we just got back from the honeymoon and we haven't been home." Then it became, "We can't go because I'm pregnant." (the golden parachute for every argument). I also have my own therapist I have seen all along. Mainly, I see him because I always feel bad like I am being selfish because she makes me feel like I'm asking too much of her. Originally I had started seeing him because I was a "conflict avoider" which I can assure you I am not these days. I really don't see how much more open, blunt, direct, clear I can be with her. Like I said, I am and she doesn't hear it. She's worried about getting defensive more than how I feel.

 

As for the sex Vs passion thing, I understand they are connected but not mutually exclusive. I would see passion as her thinking about me during the day and how excited she is to see me when she gets home. Or kissing me and saying "Good morning". Her answer to thinking about is, "I'm busy all day at work, I think about you when I have time" The only time she misses me at work (she has told me) is when she is bored, then she calls me because she pretty much has nothing better to do (that's how I feel about it, anyway). As to the kissing me in the morning and saying good morning, that is about like the sex. If I say, "You know it would be nice if you said good morning to me, instead of me having to do it all the time" she says, "I don't see why that is important. So what if I don't say good morning to you. You're way too wrapped up in that kind of stuff." On the other hand, she feels the need to make a point about me saying good night and kissing her. If I doze off, she says, "Um, I didn't get a kiss goodnight" like she's 12 and can't just kiss me and say goodnight. I tried to argue that point (Vs the Good Morning for me) and she says, "well, you always just do that, so I've come to expect it. I haven't always said good morning." On the sex side of the passion fence, that's pretty much non-existent. I don't always want passion to lead to sex. I want to know that she is passionate about me; that I'm wanted and important to her. And not just whenever it happens to cross her mind because she's not focused on something else.

[Tripper]

Thanks for the additional clarification, noirx.

It really sounds like you two are very different people when it comes to passion, sex etc and from what you've written it doesn't sound like she is going to change. Nor does she want to change.

 

You are definitely between the proverbial rock and hard place and I see a moral dilemma coming into your life in the future.. Wish I could be more helpful. Good Luck

[BettyBoop]

She only hears and focuses on the "I'm criticizing her, trying to make her feel like sh*t" not the issue at hand.

 

"I don't see why that is important. So what if I don't say good morning to you. You're way too wrapped up in that kind of stuff."

 

"Um, I didn't get a kiss goodnight" like she's 12 and can't just kiss me and say goodnight., "well, you always just do that, so I've come to expect it. I haven't always said good morning."

 

I read a few things into this. First of all, your W has always gotten away with not giving you sex or passion - so she's come to expect you to tolerate whatever she says or does towards you. If you object, she makes up excuses.

 

Children are a blessing, sure, but in this case - you might just end up with a split but not whole family. You should NEVER bring children into a troubled/broken relationship! The issues that you have now will only get worse as she can from birth say "Oh I'm REALLY too tired" and she REALLY won't have the time. Because with the pregnancy - she will for once have a VALID excuse to be too tired or not in the mood. Sex will most likely become non-existent. Was the pregnancy planned or what where you thinking?

 

It sounds like she just wants it her way, and since you've let her get away with it before, she will not change because she knows you will not leave her. Sometimes, you need to make people wake up into reality. She needs to understand that this is NOT a healthy situation and that you will NOT accept this any longer. You need to speak in a language which she will understand. Because at the moment, you two seem to be speaking completely different love languages.

 

I would suggest an ultimatum. But I know others will say councelling, so I'll go with that as well.

 

Best of luck.

[serial muse]

Wow, that's rough, noir. I know others have already suggested counselling, and it sounds like you've tried to talk to her about this in every way you could - so I don't have much to suggest there.

 

Instead, I'll ask this - clearly, you're really upset and angry and hurt at this point (understandably so). And she's not listening or trying to meet your needs. It could be that she's just selfish and thoughtless, and it certainly sounds that way from what you're saying - but I can't help wondering why you love her and married her, if that's so? So the question is - you know her well, far better than we do - why do you think she's acting this way? Assuming she does love you and want to be with you, why is she so resistant to hearing and meeting your emotional/physical needs?

 

I don't have an answer, and I'm certainly not implying that you've done a single thing wrong. But I'm curious about your own insight into your wife. Putting aside your hurt and frustration for a moment, and just getting inside her head - what do you think is really going on with her??

[confused39]

Wow. I'm dealing with the very same problems with my bf of 2 years. He has no passion for me...no desire...and it has seriously screwed with my self-esteem. And it's so confusing, because they say they LOVE us, yet they KNOW how their decision to not do anything about this problem makes us feel...how can that be love? I thought part of love was about figuring out what makes your partner tick, and then making them tick like crazy. Sigh. You, like me, just want to be WANTED. Seems simple to me. But it seems as difficult for them as trying to speak English to someone who speaks Chinese. Anyway, there are different "love languages" and it seems that you've married a foreign speaker. I'm sorry. Find a way to make her understand how serious this is for you.

[michaelk]

I also have my own therapist I have seen all along. Mainly, I see him because I always feel bad like I am being selfish because she makes me feel like I'm asking too much of her. Originally I had started seeing him because I was a "conflict avoider" which I can assure you I am not these days. I really don't see how much more open, blunt, direct, clear I can be with her. Like I said, I am and she doesn't hear it. She's worried about getting defensive more than how I feel.

 

It's good to hear you're in therapy. I'm sure it gives you a valuable forum to help work out these issues. From your posts, it sounds to me like you're definitely not a selfish person! You're doing the bulk of the housework, and you're doing the bulk (or all) of the work on the relationship. How much more giving can you be?!?

 

When I started therapy, I had the same issue, and it was pointed out to me that just because you have your own desires and express them does not mean you're selfish. Perhaps deep down you felt you didn't deserve to have your needs met, but now I hear you articulating what you want to your wife and setting aside the fear of conflict. That is great!

 

Perhaps your wife liked the old you better - the one who didn't raise issues for fear of conflict. She got to have things her way, and never had to care about your needs. Well, things have changed and you're growing as a person. She's stuck in her arm's-length approach to intimacy, and unwilling to even see that there's something wrong with your relationship.

 

Since you've done some counseling and were told it would take time to resolve this issue, you both need to put in the time. If she continues to make excuses, let her know that this is a deal breaker for you. Do you want your child to grow up with a miserable father and a mother who can't be nurturing because she's emotionally detached? I know what that's like, and believe me it sucks.

[noirx]

Thanks again to all for the valuable input.

 

We are definitely two VERY different people when it comes to perspectives on sex and passion. Someone had mentioned that I may need to compromise with my wife, specifically when it comes to sex. Trust me, I've done a lot of compromising. One of the first things we discussed in couples therapy was our drives for sex. Mine was about five or six times a week, whereas her's was one or two. She actually told the therapist that she could live with once a month. We agreed to compromise at 4 times a week. In her words, "Well, yeah - definitely once during the week, then at least each day of course over the weekend." I thought we were set on that and had an agreement. Then, it pretty much was one or two times a week. When I inquired about this a few weeks later, she said, "Well, really two or three is fine with me." Since I complained, of course it became a fight and once the fight was over we started having sex about 2 or three times a week. After about two weeks, it tapered back off to 1 or 2 times a week. When I questioned this again, it became a fight (again, I'm trying to control her, I'm trying to manipulate her, blah, balh blah) and she promised she'd try harder. That very day I was told that we could have make-up sex and she conveniently fell asleep that evening. We didn't have sex the whole weekend. I just became further frustrated and stopped talking to her about it. I pretty much lived with once or twice a week until the honeymoon because I got tired of listening to her being a martyr and got tired of feeling like I was being a broken record. Plus, like I said, she always made me feel guilty about bringing it up. Finally, I decided to try a different approach: I just point-blank asked her why it was that I needed to say something to her to get her to show passion to me? She never had to do that to me, and it occurred to me if there is someone you're going to spend the rest of your life with, there should be no boundaries and LOVE should make you want to do these things. Her answer: I DON'T KNOW. Like I said, after awhile I just left it alone because it wasn't even worth it.

 

The pregnancy was definitely unplanned. One of those cases of botched math and the calendar... Looking back on it now, I wish it would've never happened. I mean, I am excited to be a parent, but I wish I wasn't (as someone said) bringing an innocent bystander into this jacked up situation.

 

It is ironic that someone used the word "selfish" for her, as that's exactly how I feel about her. It occurs to me that she wants it her way or no way at all. She says the same about me, though (since I've done pretty much anything and everything she's asked - and even some things she hasn't) I don't see myself in that light. My female friends have said the same thing - they all think she's pretty much just a "selfish b*tch" (to quote them).

 

Why does she act the way she does? Well, that's the $1,000,000 question, now isn't it? She blames it on her past relationships, her mother, her dad... Past relationships because she doesn't think her boyfriends were very nice to her. I believed this in the beginning, but now I wonder how much of that she brought on herself because of her behavior. Her mom, I can see a bit of that. Her whole family seems like they're in competition and use success as a yardstick. Now, that is not to say they are material. It's really more of a "how can I become the favorite" kind of thing. The way she describes her mom, it sounds more like she was a protector than a nurturer. What I mean is that her mom made sure she had shelter, clothing, etc. but didn't really say I love you or show my wife that in a nuturing way. I can see this in her mom and the relationship her mom has with my wife's stepdad. My wife's real father was never around much; he'd say he was going to spend time with her, then he'd not show to pick her up for the weekend and never visited much, never paid child support, etc. Now, I can see where her real dad (because he's similar to me) would not want to be around her mom, because she's someone that saw love as a utilitarian act, rather than an emotional act. But, I've never known my real dad and I have no issues with emotions, so I've pretty much written that off. My wife had a good stepdad, much like me, and could've picked up that in the same way I did. I have my theories on my wife and her mom's relationship, too. Her mom said that my wife was a very difficult child; she always had to get her way. I believe this, because I've seen my wiife this way as an adult. So, much like the relationships, I wonder how much of this my wife brought on herself through her treatment of others. All of us have had relationships that have went bad, parents that were not 100% nuturing, disappointments, etc. It's part of life - you have to learn how to take a punch. In her case, I think she's still that child inside and thinks she still has something to prove to the world and has to be in complete control to do so. Whereas the rest of us have set that baggage aside and grown into adults.

 

Why do I love her? Well, the initial things were that she was beautiful and very smart. Intelligent woman have always been extremely attractive to me. Throw in that every now and then I'd see a glimpse of her making very intent efforts to try to be romantic, and that's what made me want to be with her. The problem now is that I look back at the pattern of those occasions, and I can only remember once that it didn't take me saying something to impel her into action. I watched my grandfather, uncle, and my brother (in his first marriage) be whipped down to nothing. I always vowed that that would be me, hence why I waited till I was in my 30s to be married. And look where I am now... X^|

 

Thanks for the kudos about therapy. I think that is one of the other things that bothers me. I know she needs therapy, she thinks she can do this on her own. She makes jokes about how she doesn't see the need for it and we're just wasting money... Money is a whole other sticking point, as like I said, she's inherited that as a source of control from her mother/mother's side of the family. I honestly think she thinks she is normal in keeping me at arms distance enotionally and physically. She says she's working on it, but we've been fighting about this for almost 2 years off and on. Like I said, she always has to get her way and I'm trying to manipulate/control/disrespect/change her as a person if I say anything. She doesn't see therapy as a means of behavior modification, she sees it as someone forcing their demands on her. So, as some of you have asserted - yeah, I am sure she did like me better when I was kow-towing to everything she wanted and feeling unloved. She got to be happy - why would that be an issue for HER?

 

confused39 - I am sorry you're in the same (but reversed situation). I have a friend who has the same problem with her bf of two years. I don't understand how a guy can be like that - it makes absolutely no sense. It is funny you should bring up the "love languages" thing. Our couples therapist talked to us about using those. Her top one was gifts of timewas spending time, mine was passion/romance/sense of touch/sex (if I recall those were all in the same cat.). So, I went about making sure I "spoke" her language and spent time with her watching TV, going to movies, going to events (whether I liked them or not), going for walks by the lake, etc. It did no good (obviously) - she still didn't want to try to speak my language. When I brought that up, it always turned into, "Well, I'm not perfect. I'm trying, of course that will never be good enough for you, because that doesn't match exactly what is in your head!" She would try to cite getting me candy at the store or implying she'd like to have sex with me as an effort. Buying candy when you're already at the store is something anyone would do for a friend. While it is nice, it isn't something that you allege is "passion for your companion". And saying you want to have sex later (especially when you don't follow through with it) is not passionate. Saying that and then sitting around waiting for your spouse to start things doesn't convey passion. It conveys (to me anyway), "Look, I can talk a good game, but don't make me make good on my word. That will take me out of my comfort zone and you're not worth that distance to me." I must be crazy - I always thought love and passion, by their very nature, were extending ones comfort and ego boundaries? Like I said, maybe I've got it all wrong, though....

[norajane]

Why did SHE marry you? Did she want a baby? Do you have a lot of money? Was she worried that she was unmarried and in her 30's? There must be a reason, there must be something she gets out of being married that made her want to do this even though she had no passion to begin with.

 

And with no passion to even start with, you two set yourselves up for a lifetime of misery by getting married.

 

Get a divorce. She's not trying, and you're both miserable. One of my friends has been married a couple of years and it was a mistake. They decided to divorce and then found out they were pregnant. They waited until the baby was born and now they have filed and both are much happier.

 

You don't have to live with your mistakes forever. If you two had married and everything was great and then years later started experiencing problems, I'd say work on it. But you two really have no foundation for a marriage, so why prolong the agony?

[jmargel]

well, you always just do that, so I've come to expect it.

 

There is your answer.

 

She has come to expect you to do these things, so she places no value on the relationship, or better yet she has gotten so comfortable in the relationship that she has taken you for granted. She manipulates you into her way of thinking. Trust me, I am there now. Like you, after the wedding the sex went downhill big time. Though it wasn't just the sex, it was the passion she had in here, was gone. It's more like a roommate then anything, and you get tired of asking/talking about sex. When it does occasionally happen it doesn't feel special because it feels like you had to drag it out of her.

 

Like yours, my wife is pregnant, and let me tell you my wife has the same mind-track as yours. It's been over 3 months since we had sex. I am at the point that I don't even care/want it anymore. It does truly distance you from your spouse, since us men equate sex with love. It's not a ritualistic act like women imagine it to be for us men. It's the one thing we do with them that we don't do with anyone else and yet they throw it out like yesterday's garbage.

 

Realize that this is not you, this is issues within her and it will not be resolved without counseling. However you can't force her into counseling, otherwise she'll just resent you more and just go to say she's going, not to listen and take the advice.

 

You are not being selfish for acting this way, I have told my wife that it feels a little like 'false advertising' everything that she would do while we were dating she won't do. It's not even about the sex, it's the vibe you get from them. Feels more like they settled with us because we were the most logical choice at the time.

 

I personally won't live the rest of my life like this and I have told her this. She just doesn't comprehend it, no matter who I try to explain it to her. However I cannot and will not be her counselor/psychologist so unless she digs deep and truly finds that she needs counseling for herself to fix her issues, I will be leaving the marriage.

 

Every relationship changes from when you first meet, date, marry, however I believe through that process there always needs to be that desire, that 'want'.

 

Check the marriagebuilders.com site, show it to her. Maybe that might spark something inside her. Sounds like she is thinking more of you like her father than a husband. She also sounds like she's acting like a teenager, especially with the control statement. When you talk to her about the sex, all she feels is disappointment, which is something a person hates to feel. That is the reason why she gets defensive. Approach it from another angle.

[BettyBoop]

Sounds like she is thinking more of you like her father than a husband.

 

If that is the case, then I can tell you that she will not want to have sex with you at any cost. I once dated a guy who I ended up having absolutely no passion for and it was like kissing/having sex with a brother!!

 

Once you feel that way about someone, you will do anything in your power to avoid physical intimacy...

 

However, I don't think your therapist was fair on her saying "you should have sex 4 times/week"...she will like it even less if she feels forced to have it a certain number of times. Because then even if she makes it to 3, she will get no credit for it because it wasn't "4"...and NOTHING turns a woman off more than hearing things like "you need to have sex with me X more times to fill the quota"...just the way I'd be feeling if it was me.

 

Sex should never be forced to a number. That only makes it less desirable.

[noirx]

norajane - I asked her that very question. She said, "I married you because you are my best friend. I married you because you're the person I want to talk to about things." I thought this was quite telling in how she sees our relationship. Nothing said of passion, "I couldn't stop thinking about you", "When I think of love, the way you make me feel is the very definition of that"...nothing like that. So evidently, she sees me as more of "buddy" than a "life companion". It is very disconcerting that she couldn't just say one thing (even if it was third on her list) something that had to do with romance or passion. Yeah, our therapist said that was our core problem - we have no foundation. She doesn't see it that way - she says, "Well our relationship just doesn't fit the mold everyone else's does. That doesn't make the way we interact wrong" Which I understand that everyone is different, but there should be some fundamental similarities in our emotional interaction that I just don't see.

 

jmargel - I've went the route of telling her I won't live my life with someone that doesn't have passion for me. I've told her this many times. Her response is always, "Well, why don't you just leave me then. Obviously I'm horrible and you'll never be happy with me!!" Like I said, she's not focused on what is broken,she's focused on being defensive. I agree with you that to some degree, she sees me having sex with her as an excuse for me just to get my rocks off and not as how I feel like we're close to one another. It doesn't occur to her I guess that if I just wanted to that, I could go get that anywhere. But it is SPECIAL to me and something I want to do only with her, hence why I married her. And to some degree, I've asked myself if she settled a bit because I have a good job, and so nice to her, etc. Like I fit all the mold she needed for someone to provide for her and a family, but never too the intimacy investment in as part of her equation. I appreciate the suggestion for marriagebuilders. Personally, I'm not going to force her to do anything she doesn't want to on her own. I'm a little beyond tired of being the one who has to bring up solutions. She can obviously see that we have a huge roadblock as well as I can. Her lack of motivation to fix it makes very clear to me her stance on the importance of me being in her life. I don't think she sees me as a parent of sibling, I think she sees me more as a "buddy" or a roommate.

 

BettyBoop - Like I said, I don't think she sees me as a sibling/parent. She sees me as a "buddy". Which is fine - I think it is important that you're friends in your marriage, as well as companions. I think you may have misread the post - the therapist didn't say "You should have sex X times a week". The therapist asked and my wife said, "I think we should have sex X times a week." And it isn't that I'm holding her to some sort of metric, it is more that I'm trying to understand why she doesn't have some kind of passionate interest in me more often.

 

Another telltale sign I should've mentioned (and should've been a huge flag) the way she handles sex reminds me a lot more of how a young guy would. (because I can remember being a young guy, not from personal experience...) It always feels very compartmentalized. It always seems like she's in a hurry to get done, there is little to no foreplay. Then when we're done, she gets up, goes to the bathroom, then immediately comes back to bed and puts all her clothes back on and 98% of the time immediately flips on the TV (if she ever turns it off to begin with). She has actually told me before (while I was trying to take my time and enjoy making love to my wife), "C'mon, hurry up - we're going to be here all night!". Of course, when I told her that hurt, she just said the same thing as usual that "Oh, you know I was kidding - you always have to be so sensitive." I've always considered myself to be very brilliant, but reading all that I've posted, I'm starting to see how really stupid I've been here.

[michaelk]

noirx, I was raised by a mother who was great at taking care of us physically (clean house, clean clothes, food on the table) but provided no emotional nurturing at all. My dad is a very quiet man, and also provided little positive emotional input. Add to this the fact that I did what was expected of me, and I was pretty much left on autopilot. My siblings got in trouble and so they got attention. Me - not really.

 

The upshot of all this is that I've had real problems my whole life with emotional intimacy. I wasn't raised with people who expressed emotion, or cared about my feelings. So, I acted the same way when I got into relationships. And it's taken decades for me to deal with this.

 

It sounds as if this might be similar to your wife's upbringing, and it might explain why she has no clue how to be emotionally intimate. It seems clearer than ever that not only do you need more MC, she needs therapy herself. Sounds like she's closed to that, though. Very unfortunate.

[jmargel]

You are at a point that I think you know what you have to do. You have to ask yourself, what are you really getting out of this marriage? Yes, you may love her but there is alot more needed in a marriage than that. When she refuses to get the help that she needs or at least keep an open mind that there might be emotional problems in her that are causing this, then you need to decide if you really want to stay in this marriage.

 

I think you might be asking us is it morally ok to leave a marriage that is in this type of situation. I would say if you exhausted all options and she refuses to budge in any possible way to recify this, then yes it is ok. I think one of the main issues here is also the communication between you two. I don't believe she really grasps the seriousness of this. Everything so far has been words, something that has gone in one ear and out the other with her.

 

Try this approach. Become distant with her, not mean but don't be around all the time. Don't be the first to say 'I love you' and when she finally realizes that something is awkward or wrong, and she asks you what is wrong, tell her 'I am just thinking about some things', then let it go. When she presses for more info, just tell her 'I don't want to talk about it right now'. Let her have her temper trantrums, which I can guarantee she will have, don't respond to them. This type of 'tough love' approach will take awhile to get working but it will start to make her think some.

[Deanster]

I mean this in the kindest, and most positive way, but you're ****ED.

 

As someone who has been married to a physically distant woman for 13 years now, and has spent much time researching, listening, and viewing relationships (not a professional, merely an enthusiastic amateur), I have three thoughts to share:

 

1) you are almost certainly in the most sex-filled and passionate portion of your marriage. 10 years from now, this will be the time your therapist asks you to refer to as the most-promising and positive time in your relationship.

 

2) right up until she got pregnant, you had some options for fixing the situation. You had everything from divorce to therapy to ultimatum to psychological warfare available. However, with the little one on the way, you have a much larger responsibility in hand, and major changes in your relationship coming down the pike. I'm a very happy father of two, but I often describe the process of having kids as 'tearing away everything you care about in life, everything that supports you, and everything that you enjoy. Once that's done, you have an opportunity to rebuild an amazing relationship with your spouse, a life for yourself, and a life for your children that is positive and fulfilling for everyone involved. How good a job you do is up to you."

 

3) with the kid on the way (congratulations!) you should fully expect to be moving into a period of your life/marriage where Mom and the child, their needs, preferences, and well-being are the center of focus for three to five years. Yours aren't really on the table, and that's largely as it should be. Your wife may choose to include your needs and preferences in her plans, or she may not. Bitching about, or trying to force her to do so will instantly make you a 'cruel and controlling husband', and result in an overwhelming outpouring of support from other mothers and women everywhere for how she manages to live with your selfish cruelty.

 

I don't mean to be harsh, or even negative, but the sooner you adapt to the realities of the changed situation, the sooner you'll be in a position to make some good decisions. Go read some of the (many, long, painful) 'sexless marriage' threads, and do some decision-making about who you are, and what you're all about. Update that to add 'father', and consider the four basic choices of the 'sex/passionless marriage'. 1) Fix it through talk and therapy - obviously everyone's first choice, but it can be outstandingly difficult if both partners aren't interested in fixing it. If you're willing/able to get your pregnant wife/new mom into therapy on this topic, you're a bolder man than I. 2) Adopt a celibate lifestyle for the foreseeable future. 3) Divorce - probably what I would have advised prior to the pregnancy - I think it's acceptable to cut and run from an adult, but I think doing so with a child in the picture is a whole different thing. Only you can decide, but leaving your pregnant wife because you're not having enough sex/intimacy isn't likely to be the sort of thing which you'll see much support for. 4) Have sex/intimacy with women other than your wife. Affairs, escorts, etc. Obviously fraught with problems, and not exactly a solution.

 

I wish you the best of luck, and I hope and pray that you find a solution.

 

Final item - If you're not already involved in some form of religious group, I highly suggest going and finding one. I'm not personally religious, but we found a super-liberal, non-denominational 'center for spiritual living', and I'm shocked how much warmth, intimacy (non-sexual, obviously), support and caring it introduced into my life. It doesn't 'solve' the problem, but the community of positive, caring people has done more to fill that gap in my life than I could have imagined. There's shockingly little support out there for a new father who is struggling with the changes in his role, and doubly so for one who is struggling with his relationship at the same time. Finding some NOW, before your son/daughter arrives, might change the next few years from 'hellish' to 'very hard'.

[Tripper]

"I married you because you are my best friend. I married you because you're the person I want to talk to about things."

 

"C'mon, hurry up - we're going to be here all night!". Of course, when I told her that hurt, she just said the same thing as usual that "Oh, you know I was kidding - you always have to be so sensitive." I

 

 

Good Lord!!! noirx, I really feel for you. If it wasn't for the baby that's on the way, I'd tell you to walk... The only words her statements bring to mind are selfish, self centered and insensitive..

[michaelk]

Update that to add 'father', and consider the four basic choices of the 'sex/passionless marriage'. 1) Fix it through talk and therapy - obviously everyone's first choice, but it can be outstandingly difficult if both partners aren't interested in fixing it. If you're willing/able to get your pregnant wife/new mom into therapy on this topic, you're a bolder man than I. 2) Adopt a celibate lifestyle for the foreseeable future. 3) Divorce - probably what I would have advised prior to the pregnancy - I think it's acceptable to cut and run from an adult, but I think doing so with a child in the picture is a whole different thing. Only you can decide, but leaving your pregnant wife because you're not having enough sex/intimacy isn't likely to be the sort of thing which you'll see much support for. 4) Have sex/intimacy with women other than your wife. Affairs, escorts, etc. Obviously fraught with problems, and not exactly a solution.

 

He's tried #1, and now that she's pregnant she seems willing only to make excuses rather than continue. He can keep trying, but it sounds as if he's already banging his head against a wall here.

 

#2 is only going to make him more resentful than he already is, given that he clearly knows he doesn't want a 'life without passion'.

 

#3 is an option if he feels his child will be in a better environment as a result of divorce. Otherwise, it's running out on his new baby.

 

#4 will lead to his infidelity being discovered at some future date, at which point his wife's shortcomings will be forgotten and he will become the bad guy. Also not a good example to set for his new child.

 

No clear 'best' solution. Nothing but tradeoffs.

[Deanster]

He's tried #1, and now that she's pregnant she seems willing only to make excuses rather than continue. He can keep trying, but it sounds as if he's already banging his head against a wall here.

 

#2 is only going to make him more resentful than he already is, given that he clearly knows he doesn't want a 'life without passion'.

 

#3 is an option if he feels his child will be in a better environment as a result of divorce. Otherwise, it's running out on his new baby.

 

#4 will lead to his infidelity being discovered at some future date, at which point his wife's shortcomings will be forgotten and he will become the bad guy. Also not a good example to set for his new child.

 

No clear 'best' solution. Nothing but tradeoffs.

 

 

Yup, thus the original header of my post, which was 'you're BLEEP-ED'.

[noirx]

Yeah, banging my head against the wall is a good way to put it. It was very interesting y-day when I said, "We obviously still have issues, but I'm the only one going to a therapist." Now, my intent here was not to accuse her of anything but just try to understand she didn't suggest we both go before I decided to head back to my own therapist (which I'm doing today). She said, "Why do you have to put words in my mouth? Why do you always have to twist things around and blame me?" I tried to remonstrate to her that it seems just as important that we solve these things together and by me going alone isn't going to help either of us. Once again, she just got defensive. She doesn't seem to understand that a person should not have to ask for emotional connection and passion (especially at this stage in the game). The funny thing is that she'll tell me she has issues (one of her many excuses) yet she has made zero attempt to pursue therapy for that on her own. She also doesn't seem to realize that almost 2 years of frustration aren't taken away by one good deed. She seems to be more interested in "moving on" than understanding why I am bitter. So, she gets to get unlimited mulligans and I get no closure.

 

To the 1-4 items, yes it would appear that I am kind of backed into a corner. I'll absolutely not live a life without passion. And as I've stated, I'm not interested in being someone's teacher at this age in my life. Now, that's different than being someone's partner; if she was interested in taking ownership of the things that only she can fix and discussed a compromise plan that didn't completely ignore my needs, I'd be all for that. I think that's part of being a good support in a relationship. But no one likes to do all the rowing on the boat.

 

No, I'm not looking for anyone to "approve" of me walking away. I'm just trying to see what other folks might suggest to fix this. Ultimately, it appears that I either need to find a way to approach her about returning to MC that doesn't put her back on her haunches or call it quits. I've ultimately got no reservations about what other people close to me think about me walking away, as they don't have to live with the results of my actions. If they value my happiness, they'll support me. If not, then they really didn't matter to begin with. Like I said, hopefully therapy today will shed some new perspective/suggestions on dealing with this. Thanks all.

[polywog]

Noirx, I've been following this and your earlier thread. It's painful to read, and my heart goes out to you.

 

I've been married and divorced, in LTRs, but have never had a child so have never been in your shoes. But for for it's worth, I can't help thinking that you owe it to yourself and maybe even to your unborn child, to leave this marriage.

 

Your baby should not have to grow up in a miserable marriage. It sounds as if you and your wife can remain co-parents, as it seems you are better friends than partners. You can go on to find a woman who loves you as you love her and your child will get to be around a healthy relationship. You and your wife can share in the raising of your baby separated, I think, with less of a detriment than together in this case.

 

And better to start out that way than holding onto misery for the sake of the child then later divorcing and putting the child through that.

 

I can't see how it could be good for a child to grow up watching one parent doing all the compromising, while the other is selfish or in denial, which is what is happening, as you have posted here. What kind of lesson will that teach about love?

 

It doesn't sound as if there will be a financial hardship imposed by this marriage ending, as your wife has her own inherited means.

 

My life has been different from yours, so maybe my opinion doesn't mean much, but this is how I see it.