Ending NC by walking away

[Owl]

I HAVE that kind of love right now...in my wife of 20 years.

 

But...I don't know if I could ACCEPT that kind of love if I knew that it came at the expense of a long term marriage and family that was likely destroyed BECAUSE of my involvement with her.

 

And here's something else you may need to give some serious thought to.

 

Her current H will NEVER be out of her life completely. Because of the kids, the history, etc...he will ALWAYS be a deep part of her life.

 

Do you know how many affairs start with "ex's"? Especially if she left HIM in an affair situation??? You'll never be able to trust his relationship with her, his involvement with her...because there always WILL be the risk of something starting back up between them.

 

On top of anything else...you could easily find yourself the BS, where she resumes her relationship with him. This is VERY common, especially in the first five years after her divorce from him...if it ever does happen.

 

Just some things to think about....

[Owl]

This is an excellent observation TC. I think this happens a lot. We can't give love if we don't feel it in return. My wife actually said that to me, "I really didn't think you'd care", and obviously meant it.

 

I heard this exact same thing...word for word...from MY wife when she was involved in her affair.

 

That was three years ago...and we're awesomely recovered at this point.

 

You're completely right...its a mental defense mechanism that all waywards use when they're trying to justify their actions...to themselves.

[stampdaddy]

I HAVE that kind of love right now...in my wife of 20 years.

 

But...I don't know if I could ACCEPT that kind of love if I knew that it came at the expense of a long term marriage and family that was likely destroyed BECAUSE of my involvement with her.

 

And here's something else you may need to give some serious thought to.

 

Her current H will NEVER be out of her life completely. Because of the kids, the history, etc...he will ALWAYS be a deep part of her life.

 

Do you know how many affairs start with "ex's"? Especially if she left HIM in an affair situation??? You'll never be able to trust his relationship with her, his involvement with her...because there always WILL be the risk of something starting back up between them.

 

On top of anything else...you could easily find yourself the BS, where she resumes her relationship with him. This is VERY common, especially in the first five years after her divorce from him...if it ever does happen.

 

Just some things to think about....

 

They havent "been together" for almost 3 years, I dont think I'd have to worry about that. I realize that he'll be around, he WILL.. I hope I havent painted a different picture, and NO it wouldnt be easy for a LONG time if ever..

[Owl]

Define "been together".

 

Have they been living together? Seperated?

 

I haven't followed your story, so forgive me not having all the details.

[stampdaddy]

Define "been together".

 

Have they been living together? Seperated?

 

I haven't followed your story, so forgive me not having all the details.

 

slept together.. they have "lived" together, basically two lives..

[reboot]

stamp, look, I'm not going to bash on you, and I've really said about everything constructive to you that I can. You come off as a decent guy, and trust me that's hard for me to say. But I have one last thing. You keep saying how you KNOW this and that, and she said this and he said that. And you know how she feels, and you know how he feels. You're tricking yourself. You do not KNOW what is said behind their closed doors. You don't KNOW what's in their hearts. You only KNOW what's in yours. And you need to protect yours. I've been telling you this all along, and I'm trying to say it one more time.

 

My OM got dumped hard, it happens, sorry to keep saying it. Now honestly, I don't think it really bothered him much, I'm sure he just moved right on without missing a beat, but I don't see that in you. Your pain is real obvious. And it's just as obvious that if things don't work out the way you want, you're going to be crushed. You need to start taking care of you, you need to stop waiting and hoping she's going to do that for you.

 

Love is patient man. If you love her like it sounds, that isn't going away soon. If she comes to you eventually, then so be it. But while you're waiting, take whatever steps you can to prepare for if that doesn't happen.

 

I can't offer you wishes for success in this, my loyalties lie firmly with that family unit, but I will offer you my wishes for your happiness however it turns out.

[stampdaddy]

stamp, look, I'm not going to bash on you, and I've really said about everything constructive to you that I can. You come off as a decent guy, and trust me that's hard for me to say. But I have one last thing. You keep saying how you KNOW this and that, and she said this and he said that. And you know how she feels, and you know how he feels. You're tricking yourself. You do not KNOW what is said behind their closed doors. You don't KNOW what's in their hearts. You only KNOW what's in yours. And you need to protect yours. I've been telling you this all along, and I'm trying to say it one more time.

 

My OM got dumped hard, it happens, sorry to keep saying it. Now honestly, I don't think it really bothered him much, I'm sure he just moved right on without missing a beat, but I don't see that in you. Your pain is real obvious. And it's just as obvious that if things don't work out the way you want, you're going to be crushed. You need to start taking care of you, you need to stop waiting and hoping she's going to do that for you.

 

Love is patient man. If you love her like it sounds, that isn't going away soon. If she comes to you eventually, then so be it. But while you're waiting, take whatever steps you can to prepare for if that doesn't happen.

 

I can't offer you wishes for success in this, my loyalties lie firmly with that family unit, but I will offer you my wishes for your happiness however it turns out.

 

That is awfully kind of you sir.. I really appreciate it, especially coming from YOUR perspective.. Takes a big man to do so... Says alot about you, Boot

[Tomcat33]

That is awfully kind of you sir.. I really appreciate it, especially coming from YOUR perspective.. Takes a big man to do so... Says alot about you, Boot

 

 

Reboot and I have had our "differences" but he is honestly a total gem of a man, I don't know how in the world any woman could have cheated on him...I just don't get it! I resonate with everything he said to you Stamp even though Reboot and I come from different prespectives in terms of experience in the affair, I can't agree more with what he said to you.

Take it to heart, we never know what is said behind their closed doors nor could we ever know what they really feel. That's the only truth.

 

 

My ex's divorce will be final in two months. He reached out to me on my

b-day to let me know he was still very much in love with me, not a day has gone by that he does not think about me and that things would have happened as they did for him had I come into the picture or not.

 

I have no desire to reinitiate what I once had with this man, but I do appreciate that he has reached out to me and is allowing me to ask all the questions I had doubted all these months .I have come a long way in my own recovery and introspection but Stamp the clearest notion that I have in this whole ordeal is that by taking a step aside and letting him do what he had to his coming back to me was not my doing it was HIS doing. He came to his own conclusions on his marriage, on his life without me being in the picture. That is how it should be, that is what it should be. I let go of this man many months ago and prepared myself for the idea that he was married and what we had was done, it was not to be and it was done forever. It was very painful and long to come to that conclusion but when you do it is very liberating and the pain is no longer so palpable and raw.

 

I don't know if you can learn from other's experiences but it helps to know that not all relationships end the same, not all affairs are about the same not all situations are the same. The way we choose to handle crisis or pain and the correlation with the outcome of what we put into place IS the same. If we choose to avoid pain we will only prolong it, just as if we we choose to face it head on, we can eventually overcome it. That is a running theme in all these cases, what you do to get to where you have to is entirely up to you Stamp.

[stampdaddy]

Reboot and I have had our "differences" but he is honestly a total gem of a man, I don't know how in the world any woman could have cheated on him...I just don't get it! I resonate with everything he said to you Stamp even though Reboot and I come from different prespectives in terms of experience in the affair, I can't agree more with what he said to you.

Take it to heart, we never know what is said behind their closed doors nor could we ever know what they really feel. That's the only truth.

 

 

My ex's divorce will be final in two months. He reached out to me on my

b-day to let me know he was still very much in love with me, not a day has gone by that he does not think about me and that things would have happened as they did for him had I come into the picture or not.

 

I have no desire to reinitiate what I once had with this man, but I do appreciate that he has reached out to me and is allowing me to ask all the questions I had doubted all these months .I have come a long way in my own recovery and introspection but Stamp the clearest notion that I have in this whole ordeal is that by taking a step aside and letting him do what he had to his coming back to me was not my doing it was HIS doing. He came to his own conclusions on his marriage, on his life without me being in the picture. That is how it should be, that is what it should be. I let go of this man many months ago and prepared myself for the idea that he was married and what we had was done, it was not to be and it was done forever. It was very painful and long to come to that conclusion but when you do it is very liberating and the pain is no longer so palpable and raw.

 

I don't know if you can learn from other's experiences but it helps to know that not all relationships end the same, not all affairs are about the same not all situations are the same. The way we choose to handle crisis or pain and the correlation with the outcome of what we put into place IS the same. If we choose to avoid pain we will only prolong it, just as if we we choose to face it head on, we can eventually overcome it. That is a running theme in all these cases, what you do to get to where you have to is entirely up to you Stamp.

I am trying my hardest to learn what I can from all of these posts.. I'll catch up with your story very soon, so I can understand where you are coming from as well.. Now that your MM is getting D, why is it you won't entertain see what is there for you two? Just curious

[Tomcat33]

I am trying my hardest to learn what I can from all of these posts.. I'll catch up with your story very soon, so I can understand where you are coming from as well.. Now that your MM is getting D, why is it you won't entertain see what is there for you two? Just curious

 

 

Honestly? Fear of getting hurt again, pride, dignity...the combination of all three really.

 

I never want to hurt like that again, we tried doing the dating thing when he was seperated and it was great and it was horrible at the same time we did each other in, we destroyed each other and the relationship and neither one of us had the empathy to see what the other person was going through and we tried to love each other the best way possible given how strongly we felt for each other but we were taken in by the intesity of the situation and it superceded the love we felt for one another. neither one of us felt right about the situation we were in, yes we were madly in love but things weren't right.

He knew he had to end with his past in order to be with me properly I knew I could not be with him properly until he ended things with his past.

 

I would also not want to be a transition for him. Just as he needed to be 100% certain that his marriage was over on his own terms, he needs to be 100% certain that he is ready for a new relationship on his own terms not because he has the prospect of me out there. I am a firm believer that, you have to let things play out as they will. There is no way I would entertain a relationship with him having lived what we already know. A part of me still loves him but a bigger part of me despises what we had, the bad of course not the good, the good was out of this world.

 

I told him all I can offer him is my distant friendship down the road and we are not to speak again until after his D if we do speak again and he has respected my wishes. My life is good I am in great health mentally and physically (thank god) I love my job I have a great social network of people I love and charish, things are really good for me right now and the last thing I need is to enter into another situation that is going to bring down what I've worked so hard to have. I am just as I was when I met him only wiser for what I have lived. I can't predict the future but it would take a lot from him before I could even entertain the thought of giving us another chance. A distant friendship is a good way to mend old wounds but that's about it. He accepts and respects my wishes and I think that is a very good start.

 

If this man is my destiny it will happen in time but if the man who should be my distiny is still out there, why in the world would I want to shut the door on that? Love has always come into my life when I was least expecting it so I can only focus on me the rest will happen as it should.

[reboot]

Hey TC, thanks for the kind words earlier. I've gained a lot of respect for you too. I know we don't see eye to eye on some things, but deep down we're probably not all that different.... and I suspect that applies to most of the people here.

[stampdaddy]

Honestly? Fear of getting hurt again, pride, dignity...the combination of all three really.

 

I never want to hurt like that again, we tried doing the dating thing when he was seperated and it was great and it was horrible at the same time we did each other in, we destroyed each other and the relationship and neither one of us had the empathy to see what the other person was going through and we tried to love each other the best way possible given how strongly we felt for each other but we were taken in by the intesity of the situation and it superceded the love we felt for one another. neither one of us felt right about the situation we were in, yes we were madly in love but things weren't right.

He knew he had to end with his past in order to be with me properly I knew I could not be with him properly until he ended things with his past.

 

I would also not want to be a transition for him. Just as he needed to be 100% certain that his marriage was over on his own terms, he needs to be 100% certain that he is ready for a new relationship on his own terms not because he has the prospect of me out there. I am a firm believer that, you have to let things play out as they will. There is no way I would entertain a relationship with him having lived what we already know. A part of me still loves him but a bigger part of me despises what we had, the bad of course not the good, the good was out of this world.

 

I told him all I can offer him is my distant friendship down the road and we are not to speak again until after his D if we do speak again and he has respected my wishes. My life is good I am in great health mentally and physically (thank god) I love my job I have a great social network of people I love and charish, things are really good for me right now and the last thing I need is to enter into another situation that is going to bring down what I've worked so hard to have. I am just as I was when I met him only wiser for what I have lived. I can't predict the future but it would take a lot from him before I could even entertain the thought of giving us another chance. A distant friendship is a good way to mend old wounds but that's about it. He accepts and respects my wishes and I think that is a very good start.

 

If this man is my destiny it will happen in time but if the man who should be my distiny is still out there, why in the world would I want to shut the door on that? Love has always come into my life when I was least expecting it so I can only focus on me the rest will happen as it should.

 

Thanks for the reply.. I too worry what I "might, maybe should" feel about her.. I have seen and heard alot of lies and deception for her to be with me.. It doesnt leave alot of "respect" when you break it down, does it? I swear, it really was like a father/daughter relationship between those 2.. She and I went to counseling a couple of times, and that's what the counselor said about it.. AND, also turned it around to where I was her "adult" relationship, and he was more grouped in with the "children" relationship Whatever the hell all of that means

[Owl]

I think it means you had a crackpot counselor.

 

Think about it objectively for a minute...it was someone providing relationship counseling...for an affair. How silly does that sound, when you think about it that way? Obviously someone in it for the buck more than anything else.

 

So, today starts day one of you NOT spending all your time thinking about her...it starts the first day of you working on yourself.

 

Given that...what's your plan for the next few days? What's going to be keeping you busy?

 

Have a plan, and work that plan...its the way you'll get through all of this.

[Tomcat33]

Thanks for the reply.. I too worry what I "might, maybe should" feel about her.. I have seen and heard alot of lies and deception for her to be with me.. It doesnt leave alot of "respect" when you break it down, does it? I swear, it really was like a father/daughter relationship between those 2.. She and I went to counseling a couple of times, and that's what the counselor said about it.. AND, also turned it around to where I was her "adult" relationship, and he was more grouped in with the "children" relationship Whatever the hell all of that means

 

 

wow you went to councelling together! my ex wanted to I refused, I refused to have a man/woman tell me how to cope with being in a relationship with someone who dragged his feet about getting a divorce, for me the answer was let's do this right or not do it at all, therapy to an affair seems like a bandaid solution...how do you feel about that?

 

The thing is Stamp that yes that is the big question, how can you trust someone whom you have seen commit so many lies in order to be with you? How could you respect them? But you also have to ask yourself how can you measure your relationship with this woman in the same vein that you measure a relationship that is based on trust and the knowledge that there are no lies in order to fascilitate your union? Understand where I am going with that? You cannot take the high road approach if you love this woman, sure she lied to be with you, would she do this outside of being with you? you don't know that and that is what you have to let your gut instinct lead you to understand.

 

You have to make a choice, you either measure her with the kind of stick that says, she lies and decieves and can't be trusted therefore she cannot be respected or you take into account the fact that due to the circumstance she had to lie and you helped her lie in order for your relationship to happen. You are in control of which option you choose to adhere to, but you can't have both sides..if you want to accept her for who and what she is you have to accept what she did and steer away from the expectations you would have in a normal relationship because you already went into it with a handicap, you knew that the lies and cover ups would form part of your reality together.

 

Reboot: thanks same goes for you!

[stampdaddy]

wow you went to councelling together! my ex wanted to I refused, I refused to have a man/woman tell me how to cope with being in a relationship with someone who dragged his feet about getting a divorce, for me the answer was let's do this right or not do it at all, therapy to an affair seems like a bandaid solution...how do you feel about that?

 

The thing is Stamp that yes that is the big question, how can you trust someone whom you have seen commit so many lies in order to be with you? How could you respect them? But you also have to ask yourself how can you measure your relationship with this woman in the same vein that you measure a relationship that is based on trust and the knowledge that there are no lies in order to fascilitate your union? Understand where I am going with that? You cannot take the high road approach if you love this woman, sure she lied to be with you, would she do this outside of being with you? you don't know that and that is what you have to let your gut instinct lead you to understand.

 

You have to make a choice, you either measure her with the kind of stick that says, she lies and decieves and can't be trusted therefore she cannot be respected or you take into account the fact that due to the circumstance she had to lie and you helped her lie in order for your relationship to happen. You are in control of which option you choose to adhere to, but you can't have both sides..if you want to accept her for who and what she is you have to accept what she did and steer away from the expectations you would have in a normal relationship because you already went into it with a handicap, you knew that the lies and cover ups would form part of your reality together.

 

Reboot: thanks same goes for you!

She was actually a nice, older lady, and what do I think about the sessions? Well, QUOTE: "it might take moving Mountains for this woman to upturn the lives of her children for her hapiness. However, I can see that she loves YOU so deeply, that the LOVE that she has for you can move mountains..." so once again, whatever the hell that means today?!? It's really all I have to go on... BUT, I will be OK.. I honestly think she broke it all down pretty good..

[Tomcat33]

I dunnow Stamp here is my take on on therapists yeah? but remember it is just my silly opinion so don't let me burst any bubble:

 

I think therapy should be left for people who suffer from true mental illnesses there are professionals that will treat an illness much like a family doctor treats the weird spasms someone feels on their left side.

 

But behavioural therapy is just that, the treatment of behaviours. A lot of the behaviours that we go to seek therapy for are learned behaviours, if you know you do something that is destructive change the pattern. Ok it's not that simple but it really is with a LOT of work but sometimes we don't have the strenght to do it alone. It's like what happens to people when they first come here...

 

Then there is couples councelling, what can I say..if you don't have the right tools to handle a crisis moment seek threapy for the tools and that can be done in one two sessions tops, beyond that you really need to put the tools into practice and away you go end of story.

 

Of course then there are troubled individuals with past traumas that need to be dealt with and need to have their issues brought to surface in order to deal with them and fine I respect therapy for that it goes right up there with the deep mental illnesses.

 

All other behavioural therapy is just a third party offering words of what we already know and need to hear. You get from couples therapy what you would form a place like this only you are paying one person to be extra careful to tell you what you already know.

 

Your thearpist saw what the two of you showed her and the two of you already knew what she displayed. Did it solve the problem though?

 

It's simplistic but it's how I see it.

[stampdaddy]

I dunnow Stamp here is my take on on therapists yeah? but remember it is just my silly opinion so don't let me burst any bubble:

 

I think therapy should be left for people who suffer from true mental illnesses there are professionals that will treat an illness much like a family doctor treats the weird spasms someone feels on their left side.

 

But behavioural therapy is just that, the treatment of behaviours. A lot of the behaviours that we go to seek therapy for are learned behaviours, if you know you do something that is destructive change the pattern. Ok it's not that simple but it really is with a LOT of work but sometimes we don't have the strenght to do it alone. It's like what happens to people when they first come here...

 

Then there is couples councelling, what can I say..if you don't have the right tools to handle a crisis moment seek threapy for the tools and that can be done in one two sessions tops, beyond that you really need to put the tools into practice and away you go end of story.

 

Of course then there are troubled individuals with past traumas that need to be dealt with and need to have their issues brought to surface in order to deal with them and fine I respect therapy for that it goes right up there with the deep mental illnesses.

 

All other behavioural therapy is just a third party offering words of what we already know and need to hear. You get from couples therapy what you would form a place like this only you are paying one person to be extra careful to tell you what you already know.

 

Your thearpist saw what the two of you showed her and the two of you already knew what she displayed. Did it solve the problem though?

 

It's simplistic but it's how I see it.

Here is MY opinion, beinga Golf Professional's opnion:

 

There are "Fundamental's to Everything: They see things SO clearly, and SO ABC, like we do here, but they have the"tools" tobreak things down in their proper perspective....

[reboot]

A Therapist sees whatever it is you want them to see. They don't have super powers.