stampdaddy Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 After so much agony the last few days, and with all of the posts I've been reading, maybe it's best to end this NC by just giving up, and throwing it all away like a cheap wadded up piece of paper.. So here is my thought, as we havent said "goodbye" and she hasnt said to him that she wants to work on it, but would go NC with me for TIME.. So I've been writing a "goodbye for US": Dear Sweet Girl, I need to talk to you, YOU.. This week apart (NC), could turn out to be months apart and more than likely a forever apart, with my "goodbye" coming then... I've been doing alot of reading, and alot of thinking, and although one "never knows", the odds are so stacked against me to end up as WE with you.. First, I need you to know that I love you, God do I love you. I am SO hurt to find myself without you, or the "chance of you" anymore, sweet, beautiful you. I REALLY need yu to know this, as I know you do. HOWEVER, I do not see any hope for me, there will be too much damage done to me, to US.. I have already been feeling the effects as in: YOU left ME... You've left me with everything that was US. While not necessarily "going back to HIM", you are with him. So that makes everything of "WE" not worth very much anymore.. You've left it all here for me, while I wonder, have you taken anything with you...? I am such a fool! Why would I think you would come to me? Why would you give up everything for stupid ME? You never took any steps to come to me, other than have a 3 1/2 year affair with me. You lived 2 lives, one with me, and the other in your house, with your children, their activities, family, friends, neighbors, oh, and a HUSBAND that was too blind to see your "other life" So what do I HOPE for now? That HE divorces YOU? You've told me that he wants to work on the marriage.. And you havent left... You, as a MOTHER, naturally do not want to turn the children's lives upside down, simply for your hapiness. I respect that and will NEVER, EVER argue this topic. That guilt alone could come back as resentment towards ME, which would hurt US.. This is the ONLY salvation that I have in this whole mess.. But also, please darling, please know how sincere I have always been about, "not letting you fall" if you were to come to me. That I have taken every single step towards US, ever since the day I met you. Everyday, every single day, not ONE step from us.. But NOW, I HAVE WALKED OFF A CLIFF **much more to add, just can't see through the tears anymore...
Owl Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 Too much emotion... If you're ending it by just walking away...do that. How about: "After all that has happened, and all that I've learned about affairs and our odds of success, I think it best for both of us if we end it here." The rest of it will do nothing but stir up more emotion and drama that neither of you need at this point. This isn't intended as an attack, btw. Just an honest observation. Over means over and drive on...long winded goodbyes are normally long, drawn out ones. Cats have it right...make a fuss of someone when they come into your life, and walk away without a glance back when its time for them to go.
whichwayisup Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 Why would you give up everything for stupid ME Take out the word stupid. It doesn't do any good putting yourself down in a letter to her. That's a very emotional letter and honestly, I don't think you should send it...Not yet anyway. Venting and letter writing is good...Just not sure what you expect to happen if you do send it? It sounds more like a hurt letter than a "goodbye" letter.
reboot Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 How about, no contact means no contact. That's what she asked for. Write all you want, it's theraputic, but don't send it.
Meaplus3 Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 After so much agony the last few days, and with all of the posts I've been reading, maybe it's best to end this NC by just giving up, and throwing it all away like a cheap wadded up piece of paper.. So here is my thought, as we havent said "goodbye" and she hasnt said to him that she wants to work on it, but would go NC with me for TIME.. So I've been writing a "goodbye for US": Dear Sweet Girl, I need to talk to you, YOU.. This week apart (NC), could turn out to be months apart and more than likely a forever apart, with my "goodbye" coming then... I've been doing alot of reading, and alot of thinking, and although one "never knows", the odds are so stacked against me to end up as WE with you.. First, I need you to know that I love you, God do I love you. I am SO hurt to find myself without you, or the "chance of you" anymore, sweet, beautiful you. I REALLY need yu to know this, as I know you do. HOWEVER, I do not see any hope for me, there will be too much damage done to me, to US.. I have already been feeling the effects as in: YOU left ME... You've left me with everything that was US. While not necessarily "going back to HIM", you are with him. So that makes everything of "WE" not worth very much anymore.. You've left it all here for me, while I wonder, have you taken anything with you...? I am such a fool! Why would I think you would come to me? Why would you give up everything for stupid ME? You never took any steps to come to me, other than have a 3 1/2 year affair with me. You lived 2 lives, one with me, and the other in your house, with your children, their activities, family, friends, neighbors, oh, and a HUSBAND that was too blind to see your "other life" So what do I HOPE for now? That HE divorces YOU? You've told me that he wants to work on the marriage.. And you havent left... You, as a MOTHER, naturally do not want to turn the children's lives upside down, simply for your hapiness. I respect that and will NEVER, EVER argue this topic. That guilt alone could come back as resentment towards ME, which would hurt US.. This is the ONLY salvation that I have in this whole mess.. But also, please darling, please know how sincere I have always been about, "not letting you fall" if you were to come to me. That I have taken every single step towards US, ever since the day I met you. Everyday, every single day, not ONE step from us.. But NOW, I HAVE WALKED OFF A CLIFF **much more to add, just can't see through the tears anymore... blah blah blah! This letter is an Emotion filled nightmare. sorry to be harsh, but how about forget the letter and stick to NC as a mean's to an end. AP:)
reboot Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 Yes, that letter screams, "Take all the time you want, I'll still be here groveling when you're done." And then she still doesn't have to make a real decision.
imstunned Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 I think you should write a letter like that every day, then put them somewhere - NEVER EVER SEND THEM TO HER!! Its just breaking NC. If she got that letter do you really think that she wouldnt respond to it? If she didnt dont you think you would be even more tortured than you are now. Yous said that you respected her need for NC - giving her a letter like that isnt keeping to NC. its not a goodbye letter. Its a "I Love you" letter. Dont send it. Dont break NC.
Tomcat33 Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 Stamp, if there is one word of advice I can give you coming from a point of experience in this type of situation and that is do what you feel in your gut to do. I would advice you against taking people's feeback on how your letter should sound because if by the end of it you edit it so much to please everyone here it will sound like anyone except for you. If that is what you feel you need to say then that is what you need to say. You write what you need to and tell this woman what you need to and if you are unsure of sending it now then maybe wait a few days and see if you feel the same way and when you feel you are ready to send it to her do it or don't. Get all the feeback you want on how to proceed but the thing about impulsive letters is that they can usually come with regret. writing out what you feel is very important in this process of purging and self rediscovery you are about to embark on and sometimes all you need is just to get the thoughts out of your head and on to paper not even to show to your object of love but to get the thoughts out of your head which can prove to be quite a relief. I really think you need to listen to your gut and the process you take to come to your own discovery should be yours and your own journey not what others feels is right or wrong for you. Keep in mind that right now your needs are elevated and you are facing full on the fact that you have possibly lost this woman forever and that feeling can be horrifying. Three years is a very long time to be with someone under the false pretense that you will eventually have a future together, so if you need to do this one last thing then do it. But please don't use this as an excuse to continue contact with her here and there. Believe me if she can't get over you she will come back to you. Nothing gives a person prespective like space does. she needs to do what she needs to do, but you don't want her by your side because you are pulling at her heels. Do you?
Author stampdaddy Posted December 10, 2007 Author Posted December 10, 2007 Stamp, if there is one word of advice I can give you coming from a point of experience in this type of situation and that is do what you feel in your gut to do. I would advice you against taking people's feeback on how your letter should sound because if by the end of it you edit it so much to please everyone here it will sound like anyone except for you. If that is what you feel you need to say then that is what you need to say. You write what you need to and tell this woman what you need to and if you are unsure of sending it now then maybe wait a few days and see if you feel the same way and when you feel you are ready to send it to her do it or don't. Get all the feeback you want on how to proceed but the thing about impulsive letters is that they can usually come with regret. writing out what you feel is very important in this process of purging and self rediscovery you are about to embark on and sometimes all you need is just to get the thoughts out of your head and on to paper not even to show to your object of love but to get the thoughts out of your head which can prove to be quite a relief. I really think you need to listen to your gut and the process you take to come to your own discovery should be yours and your own journey not what others feels is right or wrong for you. Keep in mind that right now your needs are elevated and you are facing full on the fact that you have possibly lost this woman forever and that feeling can be horrifying. Three years is a very long time to be with someone under the false pretense that you will eventually have a future together, so if you need to do this one last thing then do it. But please don't use this as an excuse to continue contact with her here and there. Believe me if she can't get over you she will come back to you. Nothing gives a person prespective like space does. she needs to do what she needs to do, but you don't want her by your side because you are pulling at her heels. Do you? no I do not... But God, do I want her
imstunned Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 I have been posting here since trying to do NC whith no closure. Everyone said not to, but I contacted him in the end. 3 Times. You will do what you feel you have to do. Try and take it day by day, keep posting.
Tomcat33 Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 I know you do hun, you would not have spent three years of youf life with someone who could only give you half of themselves if you didn't. Hope is the one thing that keeps us all down a path that can be hurtful to us. She needs to figure this out and you have to be prepared to lose her. but that's not to say you will she could just realise that her life cannot go out without you. when you have been in love with someone else for that long it is VERY difficult to go back to someone you were not that into anymore and try to renew the feelings again when all this other time and emotion has been invested in someone else. If she didn't love you, ok but she has developed deep emotions for you and I feel it's only time until she does what is right for everyone. But you need to give her space and let her come to this conclusion all on her own. Go out and live your life and don't deprive yourself of anything when you are ready to start living again. Of course now you are grieving and that's the last thing on your mind but when you are feeling better again go out and rediscover your life without her. You might even suprise yourself all the flip flopping back and forth may take you to a place you never knew you could be, as in you might even decide you don't want to be with her anymore. Is her confusion that she is not sure if she still loves her H?
Tomcat33 Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 I have been posting here since trying to do NC whith no closure. Everyone said not to, but I contacted him in the end. 3 Times. You will do what you feel you have to do. Try and take it day by day, keep posting. Exactly, we cant underestimate people's judgement or what is right for them. Closure comes from our own actions not from what others give you. If closure for this man is to write a letter that makes him sound "whimpy" in the ears of the masses so be it, it's how he feels and what he feels and what is going to help him cope with what he is going though. I personally don't think it sounded whimpy at ALL. I also dont see it as someone who comes across as "I will be there forever" you know why? because at the end of the day they are only words. ACTIONS speak much louder than words, if in time he sticks to his guns and really sticks to NC and succeeds at showing her that he is not to be toyed with anymore it doesn't matter what the letter said because the actions will speak for themselves. I am a strong beleiver that every single person that turns to others for help already has the answer to their problem before they decide to reach out. Reaching out is reminding ourselves that we are not alone in a moment of crisis.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 10, 2007 Author Posted December 10, 2007 I know you do hun, you would not have spent three years of youf life with someone who could only give you half of themselves if you didn't. Hope is the one thing that keeps us all down a path that can be hurtful to us. She needs to figure this out and you have to be prepared to lose her. but that's not to say you will she could just realise that her life cannot go out without you. when you have been in love with someone else for that long it is VERY difficult to go back to someone you were not that into anymore and try to renew the feelings again when all this other time and emotion has been invested in someone else. If she didn't love you, ok but she has developed deep emotions for you and I feel it's only time until she does what is right for everyone. But you need to give her space and let her come to this conclusion all on her own. Go out and live your life and don't deprive yourself of anything when you are ready to start living again. Of course now you are grieving and that's the last thing on your mind but when you are feeling better again go out and rediscover your life without her. You might even suprise yourself all the flip flopping back and forth may take you to a place you never knew you could be, as in you might even decide you don't want to be with her anymore. Is her confusion that she is not sure if she still loves her H? she loves her husband, but not in love with him (I've already been beat up on that one, so don't! We ALL know what I mean). Her confusion that will be her conclusion is the children.. And as noted, I can not and will not argue that... you guys might, BUT, I cannot
Meaplus3 Posted December 10, 2007 Posted December 10, 2007 she loves her husband, but not in love with him (I've already been beat up on that one, so don't! We ALL know what I mean). Her confusion that will be her conclusion is the children.. And as noted, I can not and will not argue that... you guys might, BUT, I cannot Look! From what I have read around here for the past couple of year's If they "Love" the spouse but are not "inlove" with the spouse the chances are not good for the OM/OW. Now if the love was not there, then hey they could very well leave. Your wasting your time and energy on someone who does not have the depth of feeling for you, that you do for them. Just My opinion! AP:)
Author stampdaddy Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 Look! From what I have read around here for the past couple of year's If they "Love" the spouse but are not "inlove" with the spouse the chances are not good for the OM/OW. Now if the love was not there, then hey they could very well leave. Your wasting your time and energy on someone who does not have the depth of feeling for you, that you do for them. Just My opinion! AP:) Since we are chatting, can I ask: Is it enough to have a best friend, a "partner", a lover (hate that word), someone who listens, even to the littlest things, someone who shows respect, IN HER WORDS, "someone who she misses even before I'm gone, who could listen to my soothing voice all night long, when the sound of my name is heard, sends chills down her spine, and smiles all of the time because of the song in her heart that is ME"? is it enough? When she "hates his smell", doesnt know who he is.. Saw them as a couple 2 years before me as "one of those couples that you see in a restaurant that don't even look like they are from the same planet, muchless the same marriage"? Is that ever enough? I could go on, but enough said..
Tomcat33 Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 she loves her husband, but not in love with him (I've already been beat up on that one, so don't! We ALL know what I mean). Her confusion that will be her conclusion is the children.. And as noted, I can not and will not argue that... you guys might, BUT, I cannot hey I'm not going to beat you up for saying that I get it, a lot of people say that what it means is different for everyone who am I to discern. Granted most people are not "in love" after the two year mark has passed we can't sustain that level of excitement it's not physically possible but we do grow to form a deeper kind of love that is different and good in its own way. To some not being in love anymore means I don't get the butterflies in the stomach when I look in my partner's face to others it means I don't even know who this person is anymore we are miles away and we are in the living under the same roof. I have no idea what's the case in your situation but it could be as some BSs will tell you and speaking from experience from being cheated on in the past and the state that my own relationship was in at the time, sometimes the not being in love means "I believe my partner no longer loves me, therefore I have convinced myself I no longer love them and so if I find someone else they won't care" I think that could have been the case in my exMM's situation they distanced themselves and when I had my relationship with him while he was still married, he was convinced she no longer loved him or that he loved her. When she found that we were dating she flipped out and begged him to not leave her come back home and he reacted to that favourably (in her favour) and moved back in with her, but a month later was on my doorstep begging me to take him back because he had made a huge mistake. I think some cheaters are crying out for help when they get involved with another person and would take their spouses back in a NY minute if they showed interest and are convinced their partners really don't care but then once they get what they want and they have fallen for someone else it is not as easy as they thought it would be because now they have feelings for someone new...throw kids into the mix and the complications are tripple.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 hey I'm not going to beat you up for saying that I get it, a lot of people say that what it means is different for everyone who am I to discern. Granted most people are not "in love" after the two year mark has passed we can't sustain that level of excitement it's not physically possible but we do grow to form a deeper kind of love that is different and good in its own way. To some not being in love anymore means I don't get the butterflies in the stomach when I look in my partner's face to others it means I don't even know who this person is anymore we are miles away and we are in the living under the same roof. I have no idea what's the case in your situation but it could be as some BSs will tell you and speaking from experience from being cheated on in the past and the state that my own relationship was in at the time, sometimes the not being in love means "I believe my partner no longer loves me, therefore I have convinced myself I no longer love them and so if I find someone else they won't care" I think that could have been the case in my exMM's situation they distanced themselves and when I had my relationship with him while he was still married, he was convinced she no longer loved him or that he loved her. When she found that we were dating she flipped out and begged him to not leave her come back home and he reacted to that favourably (in her favour) and moved back in with her, but a month later was on my doorstep begging me to take him back because he had made a huge mistake. I think some cheaters are crying out for help when they get involved with another person and would take their spouses back in a NY minute if they showed interest and are convinced their partners really don't care but then once they get what they want and they have fallen for someone else it is not as easy as they thought it would be because now they have feelings for someone new...throw kids into the mix and the complications are tripple. you know, She loves me.. SHE LOVES ME! This I know, and O don't have to convince myself of it. It is as simple as anything. As LOVE should be.. When she looks in the rear view mirror and says to those children, kids, "I love you". that is because of ME. When she reads the book, "Guess how much I love you?", she know that is because of ME and they ask for it EVERY NIGHT from her.. I don't expect everyone to understand this, BUT WE DO, and that is what is important for ME to understand, and NOT get so caught up in some of these post's, SO THANK YOU, Tomcat, for your insightfulness. It means alot. Right now, I do not choose to give up on Our Love. I hear EVERYBODY tell me "to listen to HER", and that if I LOVE HER, I WILL.. So, I do and I will.. (I'm sorry Sweetie for losing it today.....)
SomethingsMissing Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 she loves her husband, but not in love with him (I've already been beat up on that one, so don't! We ALL know what I mean). Her confusion that will be her conclusion is the children.. And as noted, I can not and will not argue that... you guys might, BUT, I cannot I'm with those who say write and send or not whatever you want to write and send or not. I've sent silly, sad letters. Once I wrote one I never sent, and found it years later, and had the biggest laugh over it. As Woody Allen said, Comedy = Tragedy + Time. Re all this, it sounds like she really loved you, and really didn't love her husband. But she really also loves her life - she loves the way others probably treat them as a couple, as a family. That's a really hard thing to walk away from. Those who can walk away easily I'd think twice about in any case. It should be hard. That means it was worth something, originally. I also think all love ultimately becomes a choice. At first, it's something you can't control. But after that first 2 years (or whatever) of passion wears off, then you either choose to keep loving that person or you choose to leave them, and of course, they make a choice too. I've often said I think people in long marriages wanted to be married first and with their mates 2nd. Because you have to really want to be married to put up with all the roommate issues. The little naggy sticky things that grow more annoying with each passing year, slowly eroding the love and friendship you started with. There are exceptions. I've seen people with truly happy, loving marriages. But mostly, I've seen people who choose to be married over choosing to be constantly in love. I think there's a maturity in that, btw. I wouldn't condemn it. Now, all that said, of course, I don't like to see people martyr themselves in a relationship just for the kids. Kids don't like it either - there were times I wished my parents would have gotten divorced - it might have made them both better, stronger people. But sometimes people choose between the real, the possible, the familiar, and the exciting but ultimately not completely known quantity. What if she left him for you, and you suddenly found that, after several months together, all the time, the feeling was waning? That's the worst part about these relationships. There's no time to just date. To just experiment. To see what happens. I wish she could take a three-month time out, leave him, come live with you, and then make up her mind. But life doesn't make it that easy for us. It would take a TREMENDOUS leap of faith, which isn't to say she hasn't come close. Still - I think the number of people that make that leap are probably smaller than it appears in this kind of forum. I don't know. I'm just sorry you're hurting. That's something I know a lot about, unlike the rest of this.
washingtonlady Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 SD I know you are hurting, I am soooo sorry. I would feel this same pain. I have felt it. If you believe in her. WAIT! She will be ok. She will come around and all is going to work out. Love That is a big word. You believe, it will be.
Author stampdaddy Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 SD I know you are hurting, I am soooo sorry. I would feel this same pain. I have felt it. If you believe in her. WAIT! She will be ok. She will come around and all is going to work out. Love That is a big word. You believe, it will be. This is WHY it hurts SO bad.. LOVE That is what I am counting on now at this point... Having FAITH is so hard too. I feel abandoned in a way. So in the dark... In this darkness, the tide can change is my fear.. I just wonder from a Woman's point of view: knowing HOW much we love each other over this amount of time, 3 1/2 years.. enough time for infatuation to wear off and enough time for reality to sink in, BUT, we kept LOVING each other.. IS IT ENOUGH? Does it mean enough? How could she just leave it behind???
whichwayisup Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 I just wonder from a Woman's point of view: knowing HOW much we love each other over this amount of time, 3 1/2 years.. enough time for infatuation to wear off and enough time for reality to sink in, BUT, we kept LOVING each other.. IS IT ENOUGH? Does it mean enough? How could she just leave it behind??? But the history she has with her husband DOES count for something. Their lifestyle, friends and family entwined. This isn't just about HER and what she feels for you - 3 1/2 years cannot compare to a lifetime of memory's that they've shared. Her husband can't be shoved away in the back of the closet and be forgotten about. Her feelings for you may be very real, but they are IN the moment feelings. You two didn't share EVERY aspect of your lives together during those 3 1/2 years you two were together, not in the sense of an open and honest relationship that includes everything and everybody. It was hidden away, noone knew (atleast on her side) so how can that grow into something very real and honest? It may not BE enough because her children ARE her life, which includes her husband. She hasn't ended her marriage. Maybe she will, and if she does, she is not going to run into your arms and sail off with you right away. (Hope you've read ratingsguy thread)
Author stampdaddy Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 But the history she has with her husband DOES count for something. Their lifestyle, friends and family entwined. This isn't just about HER and what she feels for you - 3 1/2 years cannot compare to a lifetime of memory's that they've shared. Her husband can't be shoved away in the back of the closet and be forgotten about. Her feelings for you may be very real, but they are IN the moment feelings. You two didn't share EVERY aspect of your lives together during those 3 1/2 years you two were together, not in the sense of an open and honest relationship that includes everything and everybody. It was hidden away, noone knew (atleast on her side) so how can that grow into something very real and honest? It may not BE enough because her children ARE her life, which includes her husband. She hasn't ended her marriage. Maybe she will, and if she does, she is not going to run into your arms and sail off with you right away. (Hope you've read ratingsguy thread) No arguement here.. I've mentioned before that the freedom of an "every other weekend" would have been a great start.. And as far as "her leaving him FOR ME", I think has gotten lost: It needs to be her leaving him for HER... But, I am here waiting arent I, so it gets confusing. That is what she is trying to figure out. He asked why she hasnt left? She said because she's scared, how will she do it alone? That got him to reply, "great, I am just your meal ticket, your room and board" while you have your "real" relationship with OM....
whichwayisup Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 Yes, her leaving him for you IS the reason it's happening...Hate to say it, but 3 1/2 years ago leaving him wasn't a thought in her head..So yes, YOU do have alot to do with it if it does happen. Unfortunately for you though, you could be that exit affair...I hope not for your sake, but it still could happen. So, you're going through hell, her husband is probably going through hell - Who is the winner here? SHE IS. Selfishly...Deciding whom she wants to be with more. You or her H. That's a sh*t place to be, but unfortunately she OWES her husband more than she owes you, and that's the bottomline of it. Sorry..
Author stampdaddy Posted December 11, 2007 Author Posted December 11, 2007 Yes, her leaving him for you IS the reason it's happening...Hate to say it, but 3 1/2 years ago leaving him wasn't a thought in her head..So yes, YOU do have alot to do with it if it does happen. Unfortunately for you though, you could be that exit affair...I hope not for your sake, but it still could happen. So, you're going through hell, her husband is probably going through hell - Who is the winner here? SHE IS. Selfishly...Deciding whom she wants to be with more. You or her H. That's a sh*t place to be, but unfortunately she OWES her husband more than she owes you, and that's the bottomline of it. Sorry.. Won't argue.. It is where we all are TODAY.. I'll take the "exit affair" if that is what this is.. I have read alot of what they mean, and if she was "open" to one in some way, I BECAME ALOT more that an affair to her... ALOT MORE... YOU would want the kind of love I give her, anybody would (please don't comment)
reboot Posted December 11, 2007 Posted December 11, 2007 "I believe my partner no longer loves me, therefore I have convinced myself I no longer love them and so if I find someone else they won't care" This is an excellent observation TC. I think this happens a lot. We can't give love if we don't feel it in return. My wife actually said that to me, "I really didn't think you'd care", and obviously meant it.
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