OWoman Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 But in all honesty how many long term relationships have you ended up in after sleeping with a man on a first encounter? All of them. Never had a LTR that didn't start that way. Where I didn't sleep with the guy from the outset, it was doomed - I should have trusted the gut that held me back from jumping him straight away because those reservations turned out to be right in the end.
OWoman Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 I left out the most important word: "anymore." I really feel like I'm finally ready to settle down. I'm not interested in running away anymore. I want someone to share everything with, finally. If that's where you are, then be true to that. Any guy who can't offer you what you want isn't worth the effort.
Tomcat33 Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 All of them. Never had a LTR that didn't start that way. Where I didn't sleep with the guy from the outset, it was doomed - I should have trusted the gut that held me back from jumping him straight away because those reservations turned out to be right in the end. Ok fair enough. Now my next question is how many men have you had to sleep with in order to meet the types that were willing to let a one night stand turn into an LTR? Also aren't you a serial OW, isn't most the relationships you are in with men who are taken? You know what, I've had a few long-term relationships that started out sexually from the off. In fact the last time I made a fuss about having sex with a boyfriend was before my very first sexual encounter. What you describe as a 'song and dance' I remember experiencing as him pestering and pestering me until I just gave in. After that he became a complete asshat. So perhaps that's why I have no time for men who are just out for sex... unless I'm going through a period when that's all I want too, in which case, what's the problem? So, what is going on here..? Perhaps you and I just go for different types of men..? As I say, I've had a few LTR that were sexual from the start, and in fact I think they were the longest-term relationships. Then again I'm in my early forties now, no one is expecting me to be a virgin, and if I even suspected that the man I was interested in was the type to look at women who had sex with them as 'easy' they wouldn't have a look in! In fact, I'd think they had better grow up or get some therapy I'm not saying it is impossible, I am saying most men lose interest once he gets sex on a first date. Maybe we do go for different types of men Frannie and I think we are very different. I like to get to know a man before I offer my bod to him, I can pretty much gage what his intentions are from his actions, I don't need to sleep with him to figure out what his intentions are. I appreciate that for you it works like that, you would rather know sooner than later if he just wants sex, but I insist you don't need to sleep with a guy to figure out what he wants either. I also like to know I am into him too, how into a guy can be you after one date? Different strokes I suppose... I am in my mid 30's and I am not exactly a virgin either and I don't have time to waste with men who just want a romp in the hay, however that doesn't mean I am going to sleep with every tom dick and harry that comes my way just to discern if they guy is serious or just wants sex. My goodness if I slept with every man I dated and sort of liked I'd be the biggest whore in town. Let's face it ladies it ain't that hard to get a guy in bed, what's hard is trying to figure out what a guy wants, what he is about and seeing if you both have the same goals in mind, and that can only happen through communication not "69" Well, yes and no. Here's the deal. If it's a guy I'm interested in, I don't play games. If I want to sleep with him, I do. I don't ALWAYS equate sex with intimacy. In fact, it's almost been the opposite in my life. I find it easier to sleep with men I'm NOT all that attached to than to sleep with the men I am deeply involved with emotionally. Okay - I know that sounds screwy, but it's a freedom thing for me. For years I avoided serious relationships because I really wanted my freedom. I wouldn't pass up a one-night stand because I could get a quick fix without giving up the freedom. I'd pine after the guys I could never have, and dump the ones I could. I know - it sounds like I need therapy. You don't have to play games you just need to give yourself and the guy time to get to know one another, that's hardly playing a game. Of course it takes will power and it takes energy.
frannie Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 I'm not saying it is impossible, I am saying most men lose interest once he gets sex on a first date. Maybe we do go for different types of men Frannie and I think we are very different. I like to get to know a man before I offer my bod to him, I can pretty much gage what his intentions are from his actions, I don't need to sleep with him to figure out what his intentions are. I appreciate that for you it works like that, you would rather know sooner than later if he just wants sex, but I insist you don't need to sleep with a guy to figure out what he wants either. I also like to know I am into him too, how into a guy can be you after one date? Different strokes I suppose... I am in my mid 30's and I am not exactly a virgin either and I don't have time to waste with men who just want a romp in the hay, however that doesn't mean I am going to sleep with every tom dick and harry that comes my way just to discern if they guy is serious or just wants sex. My goodness if I slept with every man I dated and sort of liked I'd be the biggest whore in town. Let's face it ladies it ain't that hard to get a guy in bed, what's hard is trying to figure out what a guy wants, what he is about and seeing if you both have the same goals in mind, and that can only happen through communication not "69" "Most men lose interest once they get sex on a first date"... "If I slept with every man I dated and sort of liked"... Ah well now we're getting to it, I think. You suggest that because someone might sleep with someone they barely know in other ways, that means they sleep with everyone they sort of like? It doesn't equate at all. I can judge pretty early on in a conversation whether the person I'm talking to suits me in lots of ways... most men don't make it past the first few sentences... so why bother with an entire date? With seventeen dates? Most men can't interest me conversationally, or perhaps I enjoy them on a level where I could be friends, but know pretty early on that we're never going to get on. I'm incredibly fussy about who I have a relationship with, who I spend time with intimately at all. Hence who I will have sex (on the first or second date) with. Although let's put this into context here. In seven years I've had sex with two men (that came out wrong... I'm sure you know what I mean ). One of them (MM) I knew for a year before we got physical. I've had one night stands and dated people without ever having sex with them. My second LTR we lived together for 5 years without sex. So... I don't want to give the impression I bed-hop and base everything on sex. Just that you can't make hard and fast rules on this subject. It completely depends on the man, and what I'm looking for from him, and from life at the time.
OWoman Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 Ok fair enough. Now my next question is how many men have you had to sleep with in order to meet the types that were willing to let a one night stand turn into an LTR? ALL of them wanted LTR! I think guys that just want ONS are a myth! I spent a large part of my life looking for guys like that, and those that claimed that that was all they wanted were soon post-orgasmically babbling about house-hunting together and what to name OUR kids! Maybe it's my own fault, I just subconsciously pick the wrong kind of guy, or maybe since I prefer guys with a bit of mileage on them they're all just at the settling down and breeding stage, but I can't recall any guy being happy with a ONS (and that includes the spanish tourist who was leaving later that day, when I was a gawky teenager!) Also aren't you a serial OW, isn't most the relationships you are in with men who are taken? Yes, in self-defence, to try to minimise the risk of picket fences and tiny feet... Not that that works, either. Just because they already HAVE that stuff at home doesn't mean they don't start fantasising about having it with you instead. Though I suppose my resistance has been worn down because MM and I have been house-hunting (in four different countries) and once the visas come through we'll do the settling down stuff. But not breeding thank goodness - a skreech of teens between us is more than enough!
OWoman Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 I can judge pretty early on in a conversation whether the person I'm talking to suits me in lots of ways... most men don't make it past the first few sentences... so why bother with an entire date? With seventeen dates? Most men can't interest me conversationally, or perhaps I enjoy them on a level where I could be friends, but know pretty early on that we're never going to get on. I'm incredibly fussy about who I have a relationship with, who I spend time with intimately at all. Yeah me too. I don't do the dating-as-job-interview thing. I'm not going to spend time on a date with a guy I haven't already decided is worth the investment.
trickysituation Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 SM, I too am sorry your hurting right now and I wish I could give you some comfort, but I too am in a similar situation but not sleeping with my married man. I like you have termendous feelings of guilt towards his family but for whatever reason can't seem to keep away. Funny cause I too know the best thing to do is end things but everytime I try he pops back up with so much love and affection. Wow I thought I was doing bad for not having sex in a year and a half but you take the cake!! All I can say is please hang in there, stay strong and know that its what is best for you in the long run, even if it hurts like hell right now. Giving you lots of strength, good luck
Tomcat33 Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 Yeah me too. I don't do the dating-as-job-interview thing. I'm not going to spend time on a date with a guy I haven't already decided is worth the investment. Yeah I must admit I don't do the dating as a job interview thing very well either...I do however try to make the experience fun for me and get to know a guy like any other person I may encounter for the first time...afterall I take to all kinds of people and can engange in conversation with all sorts so I see a first date as nothing more than that. But for some I can see why it may be a painful experience and sex is the only saving grace? Hmmm but sleeping with a guy on a first date when you know absolutely nothing more than that you find him physically appealing and the limited talk you've had, engaging, isn't much of an investment? I guess we have very different views on intimacy and sexual expression connected to deep feelings...what we should have done is define what intimacy is to each of us and part from there perhaps. Banging a guy I j met for a few hours only the week before, is not my idea of intimacy, it's definitely sex but not intimacy.
Tomcat33 Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 Yes, in self-defence, to try to minimise the risk of picket fences and tiny feet... Not that that works, either. Just because they already HAVE that stuff at home doesn't mean they don't start fantasising about having it with you instead. Well hun my point was that if all your relationships are with MM it's no wonder they always start off with sex on a first date, these guys don't have time to waste on getting to know you and seeing if you are the real deal or not, they already made that decsion when they married what they have at home...that's why I asked if you were a serial OW because then of course you would not waste your time in getting to know a man before you slept with him. I hope I don't come across like I am slagging you because I am not, I'm just pointing out how fundamentally different you are from a lot of women, the types of women I describe that get hung up on a man emotionally once she sleeps with him when the guy is SO not feeling the same way.
Tomcat33 Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 "I can judge pretty early on in a conversation whether the person I'm talking to suits me in lots of ways... most men don't make it past the first few sentences... so why bother with an entire date? . So wait I am confused if most men don't make it past two sentences on a first date with you, however did they get you to agree to go out on a first date with them in the first place? They must have really tricked you into making you think they were something they were not in order for you to agree to see them again!?!? Or better yet I should ask how do you meet these men when you agree to go out on a date? Couldn't you tell in the first two sentences there that you would not like them beyond that point? so why go through with the first date only to not like them after two sentences? You would think that if you go our on a first date with someone there is some level of connection already otherwise why bother right?
OWoman Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 Hmmm but sleeping with a guy on a first date when you know absolutely nothing more than that you find him physically appealing and the limited talk you've had, engaging, isn't much of an investment? I guess we have very different views on intimacy and sexual expression connected to deep feelings...what we should have done is define what intimacy is to each of us and part from there perhaps. Banging a guy I j met for a few hours only the week before, is not my idea of intimacy, it's definitely sex but not intimacy. You date guys you "j met for a few hours only the week before"? That's pretty trusting! I would never agree to date a guy I hadn't first checked out thoroughly in all kinds of situations - how he is with colleagues, with friends, in groups or one-on-one (in conversation) - as well as doing the background checks (asking mutual acquaintances about him, checking him out on google or social networking sites to see how he projects or defines himself or chooses to construct and position an identity), etc. Only if it's all consistent and I like what I see and there's a good chance he'd fit in with my perspectives, social circles, lifestyle etc do I consider dating. So while it may be the "first date", he far from an unknown quantity! So no, at that stage it's not a case of knowing "absolutely nothing more than that you find him physically appealing and the limited talk you've had, engaging". I know pretty much all the big stuff and there are just details to fill in. Oh, and then the practical component of the test to pass
Tomcat33 Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 You date guys you "j met for a few hours only the week before"? That's pretty trusting! Well yeah of course I do if I feel we hit it off in our conversation and there is a reasonable amount of attraction then yeah of course I would!?!? It's not like I am going to sleep with him on that date, you don't need HUGE amounts of trust in someone just to go out for a drink or cofee!?!? Intimacy you do, coffee nahh. Besides I meet men when I am out at events or could be at a bar or could be at a party etc. So what else would you recommend I do, send out and APB on the guy and make him take a lie detector test before I agree to see him again? Oh ok well now I understand what you mean, it was just a matter of having different dating styles, I don't really limit myself to meeting men only from references, I am open to chance. That's how I met every man I have ended up falling in love with, it was by chance and totally unexpected. Friends are fine when it comes to making suggestions recommendations but nothing beats taking quality time to get to know somone first hand. No offense to my loved ones but I know best what's good for me. If you can put off complicating things with sex ie. making it romantic, chances are you can get to know what a person wants what they are like and if they are going to be a waste of time or not...that's been my experience at least.
Tomcat33 Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 I would never agree to date a guy I hadn't first checked out thoroughly in all kinds of situations - how he is with colleagues, with friends, in groups or one-on-one (in conversation) - as well as doing the background checks (asking mutual acquaintances about him, checking him out on google or social networking sites to see how he projects or defines himself or chooses to construct and position an identity), etc. so do you only date men you work with or friends of friends then? and also "google background checks and networking sites!?!?" my gosh that is a lot of digging on someone...I don't mean to sound rude but it sounds like there might be some trust issues going perhaps? What can you possibly find on google on someone unless they are somewhat of a public figure and even then...?
OWoman Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 so do you only date men you work with or friends of friends then? nope - there are lots of ways of keeping people under "surveillance"... And I have my spies! and also "google background checks and networking sites!?!?" my gosh that is a lot of digging on someone...I don't mean to sound rude but it sounds like there might be some trust issues going perhaps? Not so much trust issues as don't waste my time issues. I'd like to know there's a fair chance of compatibility before I invest, is all. (And I have trust issues, no doubt ) What can you possibly find on google on someone unless they are somewhat of a public figure and even then...? Wow - I'm no "public figure" but I get hundred of hits if I google myself! Depends on where you work and what you do I suppose, but most companies have websites, people have personal web pages, blogs, myspace pages and facebook sites, they go places and get photographed there - most people have huge digital footprints and they tell you quite a lot about someone.
frannie Posted December 19, 2007 Posted December 19, 2007 So wait I am confused if most men don't make it past two sentences on a first date with you, however did they get you to agree to go out on a first date with them in the first place? They must have really tricked you into making you think they were something they were not in order for you to agree to see them again!?!? Or better yet I should ask how do you meet these men when you agree to go out on a date? Couldn't you tell in the first two sentences there that you would not like them beyond that point? so why go through with the first date only to not like them after two sentences? You would think that if you go our on a first date with someone there is some level of connection already otherwise why bother right? I'm a bit confused about what you're asking and why my point of view makes no sense. Possibly terminology? A 'date' to me can mean I've not met them before in person (blind date, or met someone online), or we've met briefly and decided to go on 'a date'. A date can be the result of knowing someone socially for a while and then they ask you out on a date. Then of course there are times when you go out, meet someone by accident, and spend time with them. So... lots of different types of 'date' there. And, I'd have sex with any of them IF I thought there was a connection of some kind, even if I did or didn't want to pursue anything further. For to me, sex is a part of getting to know someone. I don't necessarily wait a set number of 'dates' before I act on that desire. Sometimes, sex is a fun thing to do with someone I'll never meet again. Although in honesty I haven't done that since my early 30s. I think sex is something that you're going to be wanting to do with someone long-term in a relationship, just as important as can he hold a conversation, and far more important than do we like the same kinds of movies and books... so why not enjoy it early on and see if there's anything worth continuing with? In actual fact in the past I'd say having sex with someone early on (all other things being great between us) was a good way of sorting out the men I did want to spend more time with and those I didn't. Don't hear from someone after the sex..? Then he's obviously after sex and nothing else. Yes, I'm more or less joking there... But come on... you can tell that from conversation anyway, surely? How does someone who only has sex after a certain number of dates sort out the men who are after sex from those who want to know you after the act..? If what you say is correct, and men love the chase... how do you know he's interested in YOU as a person, and not just getting off on waiting for it? How do you know he's not thinking, good grief I wish she'd just give it up already... and then when you do... they're gone? Aren't you in danger of encouraging the chase-lovers..? As I said, I don't go for those. And I've never, not once, had sex with anyone and been interested in them as boyfriends and had them dump me afterwards. Not once. So I guess I'm doing something right. Oh, and I think I'll add, since re-reading this I see I sound pretty racy! LOL. I'm talking about my entire dating life here... things have slowed down a pace in the past 15 years. So, I'm talking about dating generally, and whether or not to have sex early on. As I said, I'm early forties now, and have had 3 sexual partners in the past 14 years, so don't think just because I WILL have sex early on means I have sex with anyone and everyone
Recommended Posts