I still just don't get it.

[OpenBook]

Sorry but I see the jealousy/comptetiveness on both parts as well.

which is why I questioned the whole post about the catering and parties...to me that seems irrelevant and focusing too much on something that may be a point of contention for NF but totally off the mark for the best friend.

YIKES! seriously they ended up in a head lock???

 

Yes, that was my first clue as well. I thought that post was full of contradictions. NF went on and on about the social ladder and who's making more than whom... and then ends it denying that she measures happiness in terms of wealth.

 

And then when you point out the same thing I saw, she patronizes & dismisses you.

 

Yeah, huge red flags here.

[noforgiveness]

a2l thanks Tomcat is just doing what she does best trying to make the wife doubt. It won't work. I know what i have and what went wrong. I just will never get how she the ow could have done this to me.

 

Tomcat you say you are done with the ow life so move on. Why are you trying to press your little insecurities on the wives that are here?

[Tomcat33]

Yes, that was my first clue as well. I thought that post was full of contradictions. NF went on and on about the social ladder and who's making more than whom... and then ends it denying that she measures happiness in terms of wealth.

 

And then when you point out the same thing I saw, she patronizes & dismisses you.

 

Yeah, huge red flags here.

 

 

OMG I thought the EXACT same thing, here is someone that claims she is not materialistic and she went off on a whole post talking about all material things and competing with that...

Of course I was pegged as slow and "not getting it" but when I asked for an explanation was told basically to bugger off...I guess I didn't get what she wanted me to get...and still don't.

[Tomcat33]

a2l thanks Tomcat is just doing what she does best trying to make the wife doubt. It won't work. I know what i have and what went wrong. I just will never get how she the ow could have done this to me.

 

Tomcat you say you are done with the ow life so move on. Why are you trying to press your little insecurities on the wives that are here?

 

 

Wow you really just want to hear what you want to hear don't you?

Exactly what am I insecure about?

 

I think from the prespective of someone that knows what is good energy to spend on something and what isn't you would benefit from hearing my message which is "don't worry about what drove the OW" worry about what drove your husband to do what he did, afterall your life will be lived with your H not the OW.

[Tomcat33]

a2l thanks Tomcat is just doing what she does best trying to make the wife doubt. It won't work. I know what i have and what went wrong. I just will never get how she the ow could have done this to me.

 

 

NF if you have doubts it's because your husband planted those doubts in you when he betrayed you, I am simply recounting the facts as you present them.

[noforgiveness]

OMG I thought the EXACT same thing, here is someone that claims she is not materialistic and she went off on a whole post talking about all material things and competing with that...

Of course I was pegged as slow and "not getting it" but when I asked for an explanation was told basically to bugger off...I guess I didn't get what she wanted me to get...and still don't.

 

and you never will get it. real wealth never measures another and never cares what another has. I never realized my husband felt I didn't "show off" enough. I never cared who had what because i knew I could have what I wanted when i wanted but I didn't want for anything.

 

We now own the stupid little midlife crises sports car that sits in the garage. Yippee!!! How much interest could I collect on what that is worth a year?

[addicted2love]

Ladies, let's not let this get ugly. I think there was some real progress being made here for NF. I believe that everyone posting has had some valid points and opinions.

 

I think the money/status issue has little to do with it. Yes it's been mentioned but I don't think that's the major issue here. I think it's a sidenote to more important things. We all know that money does not buy happiness.

 

A2L

[noforgiveness]

Wow you really just want to hear what you want to hear don't you?

Exactly what am I insecure about?

 

I think from the prespective of someone that knows what is good energy to spend on something and what isn't you would benefit from hearing my message which is "don't worry about what drove the OW" worry about what drove your husband to do what he did, afterall your life will be lived with your H not the OW.

 

 

You are the one who is not getting it. I know exactly what drove my husbands ego and I was not pumping it. I was happy and content and not needing 300. hugo boss jeans or other things that to him proved his success. He needed me to flaunt more. I caved with the car.

[Tomcat33]

and you never will get it. real wealth never measures another and never cares what another has. I never realized my husband felt I didn't "show off" enough. I never cared who had what because i knew I could have what I wanted when i wanted but I didn't want for anything.

 

We now own the stupid little midlife crises sports car that sits in the garage. Yippee!!! How much interest could I collect on what that is worth a year?

 

 

So NF it sounds like you are not the issue here NF but it does sound like your H is clearly going though some things to do with material trophies and being faced with his midlife inadequacies. Your not showing off the money you have is hardly a reason for someone to betray you, but it does sound like your H was looking to feel validated weather it be by showing off his finances or being noticed by the damsel in distress it is very much something he is going though.

 

I never blamed you for anything NF your are not responsible for what he is going through, please can't we just talk about this without you attacking me because of my opininions? I bet we can benefit a lot more if we talk than attack.

[addicted2love]

You are the one who is not getting it. I know exactly what drove my husbands ego and I was not pumping it. I was happy and content and not needing 300. hugo boss jeans or other things that to him proved his success. He needed me to flaunt more. I caved with the car.

 

Men do measure success w/ material things. It's unfortunate but a lot of them do. It's too bad that they can't just come out and say.."hey I work really hard for this money, I want you to buy nicer things cause you deserve it!" But they don't...instead they crack jokes about having friends shop for you...then they insist that they made you aware of how they felt...after all they joked about it right?

[OpenBook]

You are the one who is not getting it. I know exactly what drove my husbands ego and I was not pumping it. I was happy and content and not needing 300. hugo boss jeans or other things that to him proved his success. He needed me to flaunt more. I caved with the car.

 

I would have caved with the $300 Hugo Boss jeans!!

[addicted2love]

I would have caved with the $300 Hugo Boss jeans!!

 

me too!! then I would have been afraid to wear them cuz my clutsy self would have ripped them or spilled something on them! J/K trying to lighten the mood!

[Tomcat33]

I would have caved with the $300 Hugo Boss jeans!!

 

 

I hate to say it but me too! :laugh:

 

Heck if that's what makes my man happy well bring on the money I am SO there!

 

But seriously...what A2L said is bang on, men do meassure their success and validate themselves through their wealth and I know that when a man gets to a certain stage in the money ladder he expects his woman to also show for it. I don't know enough about your story NF but if that were the case it's not the easiest thing to talk about. It's like wanting your spouse to lose weight or wanting them to dress better etc. all the vanity type talks are very uncomfortable to have, maybe he wanted more show? who knows...and it's not blaming the W, it's still blaming him for not being able to verbalize what his needs are, as hard as a need is to discuss, having an A is 1000 times worse than comminicating needs verbally in a loving and tactful manner as hard as that may be.

[addicted2love]

and now back to the original post...

 

I have a few questions for NF....

 

1.) how long was it between the time that your friends H had his A and her world turned upside down and she and your H started the A?

 

2.) how would you discribe your friendship prior to her H's A?

 

3.) how much personal info did you devulge to her regarding your M..finances, sex life?

 

4.) would you ever be willing to sit down and talk to her, calmly, rationally in order to get some of the answers your seeking...and possibly gain the closure you so clearly need from the "friendship".

[addicted2love]

I hate to say it but me too! :laugh:

 

Heck if that's what makes my man happy well bring on the money I am SO there!

 

But seriously...what A2L said is bang on, men do meassure their success and validate themselves through their wealth and I know that when a man gets to a certain stage in the money ladder he expects his woman to also show for it. I don't know enough about your story NF but if that were the case it's not the easiest thing to talk about. It's like wanting your spouse to lose weight or wanting them to dress better etc. all the vanity type talks are very uncomfortable to have, maybe he wanted more show? who knows...and it's not blaming the W, it's still blaming him for not being able to verbalize what his needs are, as hard as a need is to discuss, having an A is 1000 times worse than comminicating needs verbally in a loving and tactful manner as hard as that may be.

 

see but he did make it known...he JOKED about it. In a man's mind that's as good as saying it right out loud. But NF being a woman, laughed at the joke...like the rest of us would. Non of us would have taken it at face value.

 

Men speak German

Women speak French

both know enough english to say "where's the bathroom"

 

ususally men and women say the same thing, want the same things but we just don't understand each others language.

[Tomcat33]

4.) would you ever be willing to sit down and talk to her, calmly, rationally in order to get some of the answers your seeking...and possibly gain the closure you so clearly need from the "friendship".

 

With all due respect, I would strongly caution against # 4. If this woman feels spited by how things ended and harbours any sort of resentment still towards NF given it may have been spite what prompted her to betray her in the first place, she might just end up saying things about her husband out of spite that would do the marriage more bad than good. Does she really wanna go down that road?

 

This woman is not trustworthy and is the source of NFs pain how could she provide any sort of closure? That would be a huge risk to take, |I think.

[Tomcat33]

see but he did make it known...he JOKED about it. In a man's mind that's as good as saying it right out loud. But NF being a woman, laughed at the joke...like the rest of us would. Non of us would have taken it at face value.

 

 

Oh forgive me I missed that. Yeah in a man's mind jokes are very much the underhanded of way of communicating what they want.

 

I hate it, but it is what it is. We sure are very different creatures.

[addicted2love]

With all due respect, I would strongly caution against # 4. If this woman feels spited by how things ended and harbours any sort of resentment still towards NF given it may have been spite what prompted her to betray her in the first place, she might just end up saying things about her husband out of spite that would do the marriage more bad than good. Does she really wanna go down that road?

 

This woman is not trustworthy and is the source of NFs pain how could she provide any sort of closure? That would be a huge risk to take, |I think.

 

that's why I asked what kind of friendship they had prior to the whole mess.

 

It's entirely possible that this OW has total remorse and or guilt over what she did. It's also possible that she doesn't.

 

I know a lot of BS's call the OW looking for answers. I did it myself. I found out exactly what I needed to know and it helped me stop focusing on the OW completely...infact I rarely give her a half of a thought.

 

I asked the question because for two years now NF has been trying to figure out why her friend, the OW would do this to her. There is only one person who truly knows the answer to that...the OW. Not to say that the OW is going to give her the answers.

[Virgo1982]

I knew she was fake out. Nails hair and breasts. I never knew she was fake financially as well.

 

I don't condone what she did, but I think you have the answers within yourself. Many times what we are feeling is brought to the surface. Perhaps she could sense that you felt this way about her.

 

At any rate, your H betrayed you in three ways, while she betrayed you in two ways. You managed to forgive him. Some might ask you how you can forgive him. Had you been watching this scenario on the big screen, you would probably wonder the same thing. If I need to understand someone, I take what I know about them and try to walk in their shoes. I have never been able to betray a friend in such a way. So, I can't completely understand what she did, but I'd like to agree with some of the other posters and say there was a bit of competition going on here. Also, if you felt she was fake, why did you keep her around and consider her a close friend? Maybe your H felt the same way. Was it because she was fun and exciting? Was it because you could use her "fakeness" to make you feel superior? As I said before, if you want to find the answers, you don't need to speak to her. You have enough knowledge of the situaion to form your own conclusions. However, it really is a waste of your time to focus on her at this point. But if you must...

[Virgo1982]

There is an excellent book that might help you understand too. It's called Something Borrowed by Emily Giffin.

 

Four normal upper middle class friends end up in a very complex situation due to the competitive undertone a female friendship. The reader wonders if they will overcome the betrayal and change for the better or continue life being victims without growing.

 

There is also a second book called Something Blue, which is even better than the first. But I recommend them both. The first book might give you some insight as to why she did what she did. The second book gives you an idea of what the future could be.

[CallMeCrazy]

How much time do you HONESTLY get with him a week not including work time. Honest relationship time.

 

We see each other every day at work, which helps. I'd say we have lunch together at least once per week, coffee a few times, and dinner at least once per week. On the weekends, we usually spend either Sat or Sun DAY together. Obviously he's with his W and kids most nights. We sneak as many phone calls, e-mails and texts in as possible as well. Today, for example we have a meeting for work, so tonight and tomorrow we actually get to spend the night together.

 

Does his wife know he met with an attorney?

 

No, I don't think so.

 

I have evaluated what drove my situation and that is what keeps me here today. It was not a breakdown with us it was a close close friend who we both dearly loved and included her everywhere. We were happy together. The kids were older and happy and more independent. Daddy was loved dearly but not NEEDED as a support system. My husband loves helping people. He tips way too much always and just loves helping people in general and being the savior. She was going through a crises and needed someone and he was ripe for the picking. I didn't "need" him but loved him and he knew it. We had daily sex, lol morning sex, she knew that and we joked about it. he insists it was an EA. I may never know. I find it hard to believe he would cross that line but I actually read texts from her that said go make love to your wife now I'll F*** you in the morning. OK HOW DO YOU DO THAT? So I won't be blind that it was more.

 

I hate to say this, but I would bet a lot of money they DID have sex. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to discover things like that. As I said, I (unfortunately) have been on both sides of the fence.

 

GROSS is all I can say.

 

I agree, it's always disgusting to think of the person you care about sharing those kinds of intimate things with someone else.

So where did I go wrong? Should I have played needy? Ummm no I don't think so. He was at a crosssroads in midlife and we his family were content and not needy.

 

Based on the little I know of your situation ~ he was probably having that "midlife crisis" where he needed to feel wanted again. I don't think you should ever play needy. But, I do know that most men love to know that we need them....

 

What still hurts and worries me though is sex was not missing nor boring. We have always had an incredible sex life so I still worry about the emotional connection.

 

That is what you think.... but perhaps it was missing something. That had to have played a part in the cheating...? I mean that in the nicest way ~

 

We love each other and always have. She knew that but she was lonely and he did not get an ego stroke anymore.

 

The big ego stroke came in when we togehter helped do her monthly budget. We live in a very upscale area and always assumed everyone was close to us financially. SHE THE OW actually believed her and her husbad were above everyone. They had the biggest home, the best pool and landscaping and the most incredible parties but she/they lived on credit. My husband and I did a triple take when we found out what he made a year. Her eyes lit up that night and her praise of my husband and his WIFE (me) took on new meaning. I was an object of scorn. I did not appreciate him. I did not show off or hold upscale parties. We entertained often. More than the other neighbors and we were proud that we could pull off an amazing last minute bring an appetizer we have the rest party in an instant. We had the fun go to house. She made it sound like I was to be pitied and I did not HONOR his income.

 

What you say here says a lot about what happened. I think that I lot of people who are living like the OW ~ beyond their means ~ are ultimately some of the most unhappy people I know. I say this because I'm in the finance industry and meet with customers on a regular basis; I've also seen the rise and fall of several co-workers and friends. Often times, those portraying to have it all together are the ones who are the farthest from that. Women in particular seem to be looking for a way out of their situation and sadly, that often times means taking advantage of a vulernable man. Like your H. She probably played on his kindness and desire to help people ~ not only that, but she was flattering, exciting, new and the combination was not good.

 

The OW probably has poor self esteem even though on the outside she looks like she has it all. As you said in your thread it IS sad, really....

 

What a joke. Anyone can call a caterer very few people can have a fun relaxed party party.

 

I have never measured happiness by wealth

 

Although it helps.... wealth alone will never bring happiness. I also agree with Addicted2Love about the OW being jealous. She was 1000% jealous of you ~ bottom line. You obviously had all of the things that she wanted. People like that are takers. She went after everything that she didn't have and felt that she DESERVED to have. I doubt she really cared about your H, she obviously didn't care about her own family or the consequences ~ she was looking for a way out of her own financial issues and she probably has little or no conscience.

 

There's all kinds of OW out there. I believe there are a certain percentage of us who were thrown into this R but are in love with the MM. I know that I feel a tremendous amount of guilt and think daily about his W. If he does not leave her when he says he will, I cannot continue doing this to another woman. However, there are also plenty of OW who don't let themselves think about who else is involved (the W, kids, whatever) and love is never a factor in the A.

 

I hope you're able to come to peace with what happened. It seems like you're a really strong woman and I know that you'll make it through this. ((HUGS))

[silktricks]

It's been close to two years now. I totally understand what happened with him. I know what went wrong inside of him through so many discussions of it, so many tears and so many talks. I understand his "thinking" when it happened.

 

She was a friend. Someone my kids trusted. Someone whose 20 year marriage had just imploded over another woman and someone who would spew such venom over this woman who could do this. I just will never ever get it and I've tried so hard. I've tried to have a little bit of empathy for her and I just can't understand what ever went through her head to think this was ok.

 

She was my friend for so many years and I honestly wanted to understand from her side and it just isn't ahppeneing. It's kind of the last part of my healing. I've healed with my husband and would like to lose the hatred I have for this person and I thought understanding would do that. I guess it won't and I guess my user name is correct.

 

NFG - I haven't read this thread, I only got this far and decided to reply here. Each case is different, so you'll probably never truly know WHY she did what she did, but if I was a bettin' lady, here'd be my bet.....

 

She wanted to validate her own desirability and at the same time validate her own worthlessness. As you know, when your husband cheats on you you feel undesirable - very undesirable. You feel worthless and pitiful and woebegone and just plain undiluted terrible. You also feel at some level like you deserved to be cheated on.

 

The best way to feel like you are desirable to men is to get a man to love you, to desire you. What better way is there to show how VERY desirable you are then to take a man away from another person?

 

At the same time, you really do feel worthless and that at base you are a bad person - otherwise the man you loved more than anything would have hung in there with you - right? So, to show the world (and yourself) just what a rotten person you really are, you go after your best friend's husband.

 

Two birds with one f*ck.

 

Of course - she could just be a creep who you judged wrongly to be your friend.....

 

As for forgiving - there's no law that says you must forgive everyone who has hurt you. You'll forgive if you need to do so eventually, but life is what it is. Even God doesn't forgive everyone.

[cj1988]

I have just read this thread to the end....as I have said I was to betrayed by my H and his dear sister. She was takinbg diet pills left and right and I told him that is not healthy (not realizing she was trying to get skinny for him) he said well it is people like you that make others want to be skinny ( I am naturally thin and in shape, she is way over weight) I never understood that until I realized she was trying to me.....she was jealous, he H liked thinner women, would tell her that her BUTT was getting too big etc.....she went to my H for validation, attention because he own was all over the rest of us....he would get drunk and start touching grabbing etc....she would say it is OK he is just drunk, but he would not touch her....ONLY if he was drunk and ready to f----.......one night if I am right, she f---- her husband in the truck behind my house and then my H, her brother under the dock....now how GROSS is that !

 

So, as you see we are the innocent and totally sane ones here, DO NOT let them gaslight you or bring you down, you are better than that and THEY HAVE major issues, NOT US ! '

 

I am after a year finally strong enough to get out of this and stand up to him....I finallty see what he really is and what I really am....he has issues I cannot address or deal and do not want to any longer....time for him to fix his life and me to start a new one....you will move on one day and baby it feels better than anything you can imagine ! I am HIGH on myself !

[Virgo1982]

 

So, as you see we are the innocent and totally sane ones here, DO NOT let them gaslight you or bring you down, you are better than that and THEY HAVE major issues, NOT US ! '

 

I am after a year finally strong enough to get out of this and stand up to him....I finallty see what he really is and what I really am....he has issues I cannot address or deal and do not want to any longer....time for him to fix his life and me to start a new one....you will move on one day and baby it feels better than anything you can imagine ! I am HIGH on myself !

 

No one is saying it's her fault, but no one is perfect-including the OP. Part of growing and being an adult is being able to look at yourself critically. Again, I don't think she deserved what happened to her, but she did consider this woman a friend and I think she could learn something about herself by looking at the relationship she had with her former friend.

 

You said you realized who you are and what he is. I have gradually seen the fire coming out of you, lol. The events that took place were unfortunate, but it helped you see through the fog and you're more confidenta and able to see reality. You can always find "the good" if you look hard enough.