I still just don't get it.

[noforgiveness]

Hey NF. You and I joined this board at the same time. I remember reading your story and thinking how the fact that the OW was your friend was salt in the wound.

 

It's hard enough to forgive when you have never met the OW. I think that in your case, two years isn't enough time to get be able to forgive or understand the magnitude of betrayal you have experienced.

 

Give yourself time. As long as you understand your H and have dealt with the issues that matter to both of you, I think you will find that in time the feelings you have about the OW (your friend) will fade and then vanish.

 

I'm not sure you will ever get an answer to your question and you may never understand her, but there will be a day when you just won't care.

 

Thanks herenow nice post. I'm happy but i am still trying to understand her justification. Like curd said I think you just can't. It takes a person made of something different than me.

[Tomcat33]

I don't know Tomcat. how can they? How can you betray another human being so by having sex with her husband? Hmmmm you asked the question how is that possible? How must you feel doing something like that? Oh she's a person you don't know so that makes it ok? Ummmm no I don't think so. What a world we would be living in if everyong only killed about those whom they personally know. Very sad.

 

Gosh didn't you even do it in the same hotel room with the wife and kids sleeping. Ewww that just gives me the chills.

 

 

Not sure where you get your stories from but my story goes nothing like you just described. There were no hotel rooms he was seperated and living on his own, we slept in my bed or his like a normal single couple does.

There are no children on either part so again not sure what you are talking about?!?! but yeah EWWWE

I have never slept in the same "building" as his W let a lone the same room. EWWWWE

 

Crazy story though...wow!!

 

 

My ex and his W were not my best friends, I could never betray people I love and care about, I could never betray a friend. His wife wasn't my friend and we are all known to do crappy things to people we don't know.

If not let's have a show of hands for people who never cut someone off on the road, who never closed an elevator door when they see another person coming but they are in a hurry, who never took a parking spot from another human being, who never got the better looking apple for their child leaving other not so great looking apples for the other kids at the party, who never cut inline infront of another person at the grocery store...and the list goes on and on you get the point.

[noforgiveness]

Not sure where you get your stories from but my story goes nothing like you just described. There were no hotel rooms he was seperated and living on his own, we slept in my bed or his like a normal single couple does.

There are no children on either part so again not sure what you are talking about?!?! but yeah EWWWE

I have never slept in the same "building" as his W let a lone the same room. EWWWWE

 

Crazy story though...wow!!

 

 

My ex and his W were not my best friends, I could never betray people I love and care about, I could never betray a friend. His wife wasn't my friend and we are all known to do crappy things to people we don't know.

If not let's have a show of hands for people who never cut someone off on the road, who never closed an elevator door when they see another person coming but they are in a hurry, who never took a parking spot from another human being, who never got the better looking apple for their child leaving other not so great looking apples for the other kids at the party, who never cut inline infront of another person at the grocery store...and the list goes on and on you get the point.

Hmm trying to think who that lovely woman was then that had sex with him in the same hotel room as wife and kids.

 

So there you have it. You didn't know her so you didn't care he was married. But it's ok though because people cut people off in traffic.:laugh:Yea it's all good.

[Tomcat33]

Hmm trying to think who that lovely woman was then that had sex with him in the same hotel room as wife and kids.

 

So there you have it. You didn't know her so you didn't care he was married. But it's ok though because people cut people off in traffic.:laugh:Yea it's all good.

 

 

Of course I cared, if I didn't care I would have continued on in that relationship getting what I wanted out of it and not caring about his life ties. I got out when our relationship stopped progressing to the last possible step he could take and that was Divorce. He moved back home and that was that. Now he is divorcing but I am no longer interested in him. Some people Noforgiveness just don't want to be together anymore and it doesn't matter if there is a third party in the picture or not some relationships are not going to get better no matter what. We have to accept that, just as we have to accept that a person who we thought was our best friend being that our mate or a friend that betrays us, is not worth trying to figure out.

 

sometimes in life we have to cut our losses and start again. The energy we spend in trying to figure out people who do us wrong should be spent trying to figure out how we can make our own lives better. We can only change ourselves.

[Tomcat33]

I need to say that even though I am the one Mr. Messy Pants took vows with and he is the one ultimately accountable to me and our family. I doesn't erase the responsibility of the OP. In my case the ow also knew me and my children. Our daughters were born the same year and are in a lot of activities together. We even attended the same church for awhile. In my case I believes that she bears as much responsibility as he does. Not just to her husband and family, but to mine as well. The same as Mr. Messy Pants does to her family.

 

 

I totally agree in your case the betrayal was double and the OW betrayed your friendship and trust and conspired against you (I pressume) with your husband and that is just so wrong all around. With what face do you face your friend after doing that to them? And your children growing up together etc. WOW! It would be like having and affair with a sybling's spouse there are certain lines you just don't cross no matter what.

 

I may sound like a hypocrite for saying that but honestly when you have entrusted another person in your life that is the lowest thing you can do to them. I personally treat friendships with the same respect I treat my family and romantic partners, if you draw lines of how much you choose to respect all the people close to you that you supposedly love then maybe it's time to re-evaluate why those people are in your life?

[CallMeCrazy]

Why would a woman ever agree to being a secret?

 

I think that several other posters said it well, with "every situation is different". For me, I ended up fallling in love with my MM and while I hate that things are a secret, I know that eventually that will change.

 

I've tried to figure out why they would accept a man going home to another woman every single night. Why they would accept not being able to phone their "boyfriend" anytime except during business type hours. Why they would accept being introduced as a coworker instead of the lover they are?

 

It's incredibly difficult... I hate that he goes home to another woman every night. The only way I'm able to get through my situation is knowing that he has met with an attorney and is working on getting out of his marriage in the new year. I would not agree to continue this relationship if he was not planning to end things with her. If he doesn't leave, I will. Because I will not accept things to continue if he doesn't value what we have enough to leave.

 

The more I have read the more degrading it seems to be in this position. The waiting and hoping "she" throws him out so you can begin a life together. The more I have read the less I have understood the how. How can you put yourself in this position?

 

I never intended to put myself in this position. We were friends for 2 years before anything happened.

 

I don't think I will ever understand the mindset of an other woman no matter how hard I try.

 

I never thought I could either... I think that every situation is different and some OW don't care at all.

 

What do you think allows them to be in a relationship like this. I actually feel so sorry for them and angry at the same time.

 

For me, it's justification, plain and simple. I know that it doesn't make it right... but as I said, I knew my MM for 2 years before we were anything more than friends. I know that he has been in a loveless unhappy marriage. He had been staying in the R because of his daughters and because of an illness his wife was recovering from. He was coming to the conclusion that their R could not be fixed and to the realization perhaps he had never really been "in love" with her to begin with. They had an almost non-existant sex life and had grown so far apart they had nothing in common but their children. He was lonely and we had a connection/friendship that grew and grew. I know it's not right, but it's the reality. We talk and share more in the workday hours or "out with clients" than he ever does at home with his W. Not only that, but we have an amazing friendship, partnership and love. Something that neither of us have ever experienced before. (I have been M before once)

 

This is just what happened in my case. I definitely feel your pain (I have been cheated on by a long-term boyfriend) ~ but also think you should evaluate what drove your husband to cheat. I had to do that when I was cheated on.... It's hard, but it's reality and you'll understand how this happened by doing so. Unless your H was just heartless ~ there had to have been an issue with your R that was so big he made some serious lapses in judegement.

 

I turned down my MM's advances several times before I finally gave in. I know that one day we'll both have some big consequences to pay for our actions, but I love him and can't imagine my life without him. I'm willing to take these risks until I know if it's possible for us to have a future together.

 

Hang in there ~ try to focus on what went wrong with your R or if your H is just not right for you ~ not the OW. Then, figure out what you need to do to be happy and search for that. Life is short...

[noforgiveness]

Callmecrazy thank you. That was honestly written without hatred towards the ow and family.

 

A few questions though:

How much time do you HONESTLY get with him a week not including work time. Honest relationship time.

 

Does his wife know he met with an attorney?

 

I have evaluated what drove my situation and that is what keeps me here today. It was not a breakdown with us it was a close close friend who we both dearly loved and included her everywhere. We were happy together. The kids were older and happy and more independent. Daddy was loved dearly but not NEEDED as a support system. My husband loves helping people. He tips way too much always and just loves helping people in general and being the savior. She was going through a crises and needed someone and he was ripe for the picking. I didn't "need" him but loved him and he knew it. We had daily sex, lol morning sex, she knew that and we joked about it. he insists it was an EA. I may never know. I find it hard to believe he would cross that line but I actually read texts from her that said go make love to your wife now I'll F*** you in the morning. OK HOW DO YOU DO THAT? So I won't be blind that it was more.

 

GROSS is all I can say.

 

So where did I go wrong? Should I have played needy? Ummm no I don't think so. He was at a crosssroads in midlife and we his family were content and not needy.

 

What still hurts and worries me though is sex was not missing nor boring. We have always had an incredible sex life so I still worry about the emotional connection.

 

We love each other and always have. She knew that but she was lonely and he did not get an ego stroke anymore.

 

The big ego stroke came in when we togehter helped do her monthly budget. We live in a very upscale area and always assumed everyone was close to us financially. SHE THE OW actually believed her and her husbad were above everyone. They had the biggest home, the best pool and landscaping and the most incredible parties but she/they lived on credit. My husband and I did a triple take when we found out what he made a year. Her eyes lit up that night and her praise of my husband and his WIFE (me) took on new meaning. I was an object of scorn. I did not appreciate him. I did not show off or hold upscale parties. We entertained often. More than the other neighbors and we were proud that we could pull off an amazing last minute bring an appetizer we have the rest party in an instant. We had the fun go to house. She made it sound like I was to be pitied and I did not HONOR his income.

 

What a joke. Anyone can call a caterer very few people can have a fun relaxed party party.

 

I have never measured happiness by wealth

[Tomcat33]

I don't get it....so what are you saying that she had an affair with your husband because she was jealous of your material responsibility with your husband?

 

I don't get what all that party/catering talk was about!?!?

[noforgiveness]

I don't get it....so what are you saying that she had an affair with your husband because she was jealous of your material responsibility with your husband?

 

I don't get what all that party/catering talk was about!?!?

 

 

of course you wouldn't dear. Bless your heart. It's ok.

[Tomcat33]

of course you wouldn't dear. Bless your heart. It's ok.

 

 

The fact you won't explain what you are talking about is really the key here, do you even know what you are talking about? you started off your post talking about evaluating why the affair happened and you ended up going off about catering and having parties with the neighbours!?!?

 

Bless your heart "dear" for truly being clueless as to what went wrong in your marriage.

[addicted2love]

Callmecrazy thank you. That was honestly written without hatred towards the ow and family.

 

A few questions though:

How much time do you HONESTLY get with him a week not including work time. Honest relationship time.

 

Does his wife know he met with an attorney?

 

I have evaluated what drove my situation and that is what keeps me here today. It was not a breakdown with us it was a close close friend who we both dearly loved and included her everywhere. We were happy together. The kids were older and happy and more independent. Daddy was loved dearly but not NEEDED as a support system. My husband loves helping people. He tips way too much always and just loves helping people in general and being the savior. She was going through a crises and needed someone and he was ripe for the picking. I didn't "need" him but loved him and he knew it. We had daily sex, lol morning sex, she knew that and we joked about it. he insists it was an EA. I may never know. I find it hard to believe he would cross that line but I actually read texts from her that said go make love to your wife now I'll F*** you in the morning. OK HOW DO YOU DO THAT? So I won't be blind that it was more.

 

GROSS is all I can say.

 

So where did I go wrong? Should I have played needy? Ummm no I don't think so. He was at a crosssroads in midlife and we his family were content and not needy.

 

What still hurts and worries me though is sex was not missing nor boring. We have always had an incredible sex life so I still worry about the emotional connection.

 

We love each other and always have. She knew that but she was lonely and he did not get an ego stroke anymore.

 

The big ego stroke came in when we togehter helped do her monthly budget. We live in a very upscale area and always assumed everyone was close to us financially. SHE THE OW actually believed her and her husbad were above everyone. They had the biggest home, the best pool and landscaping and the most incredible parties but she/they lived on credit. My husband and I did a triple take when we found out what he made a year. Her eyes lit up that night and her praise of my husband and his WIFE (me) took on new meaning. I was an object of scorn. I did not appreciate him. I did not show off or hold upscale parties. We entertained often. More than the other neighbors and we were proud that we could pull off an amazing last minute bring an appetizer we have the rest party in an instant. We had the fun go to house. She made it sound like I was to be pitied and I did not HONOR his income.

 

What a joke. Anyone can call a caterer very few people can have a fun relaxed party party.

 

I have never measured happiness by wealth

 

NF...I believe you have answered many of your own questions right here in this post. To me it seems very clear why your friend did this to you.

 

SHE WAS JEALOUS OF YOU!!!!!

You say it yourself right here...your house was the "fun place to hang out"

Laid back, great family, great husband...her life was falling apart, her house was already made of cards (debt up to the eyeballs).

 

I'm going to guess that she "pretended" to have it all...and when she couldn't fake it anymore she lashed out. Her anger, depression, insecurities all of it probably prompted her side of the A w/ your H.

 

And why YOUR H and not someone elses?

 

I'll guess again and say that she saw your "ever helpfull, sweet H" as an easy target...he needed to feel needed and she zeroed in on that.

 

Bottom line...maybe from her very sick, messed up point of view....her world is falling apart and you have it all. You reminded her of everything she wanted to have and be with her H. You reminded her with your loving home and happy M just how messed up and lonely her own life was. So she started to resent you and punished you (undeservingly) by messing up your world too. After all misery loves company. I hope you see where I'm going with this. I don't think I'm too far off.

 

a2l

[Tomcat33]

NF...I believe you have answered many of your own questions right here in this post. To me it seems very clear why your friend did this to you.

 

SHE WAS JEALOUS OF YOU!!!!!

You say it yourself right here...your house was the "fun place to hang out"

Laid back, great family, great husband...her life was falling apart, her house was already made of cards (debt up to the eyeballs).

 

I'm going to guess that she "pretended" to have it all...and when she couldn't fake it anymore she lashed out. Her anger, depression, insecurities all of it probably prompted her side of the A w/ your H.

 

And why YOUR H and not someone elses?

 

I'll guess again and say that she saw your "ever helpfull, sweet H" as an easy target...he needed to feel needed and she zeroed in on that.

 

Bottom line...maybe from her very sick, messed up point of view....her world is falling apart and you have it all. You reminded her of everything she wanted to have and be with her H. You reminded her with your loving home and happy M just how messed up and lonely her own life was. So she started to resent you and punished you (undeservingly) by messing up your world too. After all misery loves company. I hope you see where I'm going with this. I don't think I'm too far off.

 

a2l

 

 

That was a really good interpretation.

 

I on the other hand saw a couple that has it all but a man who was looking for variety and found and easy target on the damsel in distress next door, he having superman tendencies as he has, had his chance to save someone else's world since his was hunky dory. She being the mess that she was, jealousy also a being a driving force, took advantage of what was placed infront of her. The deed was mutual from where I see it.

Given the text message there was definitely more than an EA there. He will never come clean about that, cheaters never do.

[noforgiveness]

wow a2l interesting insight.

 

THANK YOU!

[addicted2love]

That was a really good interpretation.

 

I on the other hand saw a couple that has it all but a man who was looking for variety and found and easy target on the damsel in distress next door, he having superman tendencies as he has, had his chance to save someone else's world since his was hunky dory. She being the mess that she was, jealousy also a being a driving force, took advantage of what was placed infront of her. The deed was mutual from where I see it.

Given the text message there was definitely more than an EA there. He will never come clean about that, cheaters never do.

 

I only gave my opinion on OW/Best friend side of it. Since NF states that she doesn't understand how her friend could have done this to her. She stated that she understands her H's side of it. So I left that alone.

 

A2L

[whichwayisup]

I'll guess again and say that she saw your "ever helpfull, sweet H" as an easy target...he needed to feel needed and she zeroed in on that.

 

And, since she knew you both well, she also was well aware that your husband had a kind heart and helped friends - So yeah, she took advantage of that aspect completely and ego, power and feel of having attention of another woman's husband (forget the fact that you were her friend) made her feel good. She's pathetic and now she is the loser in all this mess as she not only lost you two as friends, but she also has lost her self respect. One day she will realize this NF.

[addicted2love]

wow a2l interesting insight.

 

THANK YOU!

 

Your welcome

what exactly did you find interesting?

[whichwayisup]

Since NF states that she doesn't understand how her friend could have done this to her. She stated that she understands her H's side of it. So I left that alone.

Yup, the original question was about the OW, not about her husband.

[noforgiveness]

Your welcome

what exactly did you find interesting?

 

You gave me new insight. I never saw her as jealous. They were the couple who flaunted everything but I guess that was insecurity.

 

My husband use to make fun of me that I did not know how to shop and would "jokingliy" offer our credit card to friends to help me. Now I look at that and it hurts. I know it was from her and her overextended lifestyle.

 

Her new found attention did dramatically increase after I was shocked at what their yearly income was. Not even in the same realm as us but they spent way way more ayear than us.

 

My husband needed that ego boost.

[Tomcat33]

And, since she knew you both well, she also was well aware that your husband had a kind heart and helped friends - So yeah, she took advantage of that aspect completely and ego, power and feel of having attention of another woman's husband (forget the fact that you were her friend) made her feel good. She's pathetic and now she is the loser in all this mess as she not only lost you two as friends, but she also has lost her self respect. One day she will realize this NF.

 

 

Well technically the real loser in all this in the sense that she lost the most is NF because while her husband was being a good samaritan saving the world with his cape on, manipulated or not, he hurt what should matter most, NF.

 

 

As far as what drove the OW best person to ask is her husband he would know he had the emotional affair with her and would know what drove her to come between them...that's if he is willing to answers honestly...

 

What could we possibly know what drove that woman to do what she did when every situation is so particular and so unique and filled with millions of technicalities that lead to a situation.

 

But based on the fragments of info shared here yes jealousy could be what drove her. Nd she was your goodfriend, what did you think of her until this happened? that should shed some light into the kind of person she was.

[addicted2love]

Think about this too...and this is not something she may even been aware of...but you saw her at her worst, most vulnerable state. You saw her at her lowest. She confided in you about her H's A. About the OW in her situation, she showed you the ugliest side of herself. So now you seem even more "perfect" in her eyes.

 

Also think of conversations you had with her prior to all of this.

Did you complain about your H at all? Even in the slightest? Did you brag about him at all? You've told us here that you and your H have/had a great sex life...did you share that info with her as well? If you bragged a little maybe she wanted to see what all the fuss was about. If you complained at all...maybe she saw it as an opportunity to make you the bad guy for once and be "his saviour".

 

I'm not saying this is the friend you've known for years...it probably isn't other wise you probably never would have invited this person into your home. However when her world fell apart she probably snapped and the person she was and maybe still is..got lost in a landslide of emotions which may have caused her to stop thinking clearly, rationally, honestly about the consequences of it all....losing her best friend and causing you and your family great pain. She was in great pain herself, not thinking of others just wanting her own pain to stop. Doesn't make it right but it could be the explaination you've been looking for.

 

I know you're still not over it yet, but if by chance she is still that person that you first became friends with do you think it would be possible to eventually have a conversation with her about all of it? You might be surprised to find that she does feel guilty and she was jealous of your happy life.

 

A2L

[OpenBook]

Her new found attention did dramatically increase after I was shocked at what their yearly income was. Not even in the same realm as us but they spent way way more ayear than us.

 

You may have insulted her, "driven it home" to her after you found out about the yearly income. You keep harping on this issue. I think there's jealousy and competitiveness on your part too. Are you the poster who ended up with your head pinned in a thigh-lock with the OW??

[Tomcat33]

You may have insulted her, "driven it home" to her after you found out about the yearly income. You keep harping on this issue. I think there's jealousy and competitiveness on your part too. Are you the poster who ended up with your head pinned in a thigh-lock with the OW??

 

 

Sorry but I see the jealousy/comptetiveness on both parts as well.

which is why I questioned the whole post about the catering and parties...to me that seems irrelevant and focusing too much on something that may be a point of contention for NF but totally off the mark for the best friend.

YIKES! seriously they ended up in a head lock???

[addicted2love]

Well technically the real loser in all this in the sense that she lost the most is NF because while her husband was being a good samaritan saving the world with his cape on, manipulated or not, he hurt what should matter most, NF.

 

 

As far as what drove the OW best person to ask is her husband he would know he had the emotional affair with her and would know what drove her to come between them...that's if he is willing to answers honestly...

 

What could we possibly know what drove that woman to do what she did when every situation is so particular and so unique and filled with millions of technicalities that lead to a situation.

 

But based on the fragments of info shared here yes jealousy could be what drove her. Nd she was your goodfriend, what did you think of her until this happened? that should shed some light into the kind of person she was.

 

Tomcat...while NF's husband might be able to shed some light on the OW's state of mind I think the OW herself is the one with all of the answers NF is looking for. OW being open, honest and willing enough to give NF those answers is another question. As well as NF's readiness and willingness to calmly and rationally go to her for those answers.

 

Also, and I could very well be wrong. I don't think that this A was an EA in the sense that these two people were "in love" with each other. They probably cared for each other in a comfortable way because they weren't strangers. I think the "emotions" in this situation had little to do with the A itself and more to do with what each individule was feeling about themselves at the time. OW..emotionally unstable. MM...needed to be needed...wanted to be a "hero". Not about love or "feelings for each other" at all..jmho.

 

NF..your thoughts?

 

A2L

[noforgiveness]

lol no girls way above a head lock scenerio and no harping over it? Actually I don't think I've ever mentioned this side of it all.

 

Jealous, uncomfortable me? Yes maybe a little. I sometimes wish I felt money was so disposiple but I never will. i have kids to put through college and a retirement to enjoy.

 

Would I like to live on the edge and spend spend spend maybe but it's not me.

 

I did learn she was fake inside and out. I knew she was fake out. Nails hair and breasts. I never knew she was fake financially as well. That was a shock to all and my husband felt oh so important.

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat...while NF's husband might be able to shed some light on the OW's state of mind I think the OW herself is the one with all of the answers NF is looking for. OW being open, honest and willing enough to give NF those answers is another question. As well as NF's readiness and willingness to calmly and rationally go to her for those answers.

 

 

 

 

Yeah but let's face it do you honestly think that is she has a chance to talk to the OW she will come out and say, "yes I was jealous I did this to you because I was jealous" not in a million years. SO best thing to do in these situations is to stop speculating on something you will NEVER know the true answer to and focus on the reality of your situation instead. As long as her H comes clean and she can get to the bottom of why her H did this to her then there is hope they can both move on and recover from this whole ordeal. If their bond can grow strong and secure and gain trust back from her then that's all that matters really, the OWs motives should be irrelevant. Some people can be trusted others can't, this woman was one that was obviously not worth trusting it's sad they had to find this out the hard way, what's sadder is that her H not only broke their bows but allowed this woman who was close to them to come between them to me it is doubly bad on his part and the disrespect toward the marriage and friendship the two women had is very big.

 

Friends/people dissapoint us and some will break our trust and we can walk away from them and never look back, the husband was keept (I think you are still together no?) and so why not focus on why she chose to keep him. The answers should come from him because he is the one that she is choosing to regain trust from. IMO