noforgiveness Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 I have been here a while now. I came here to get some understanding as to why a woman, who was once my best friend and who had been a victim of infidelity herself, would go after my husband. Yes I know it takes two and was both of them. But i just don't get it. I have read and read and read a lot of other woman boards and infidelity boards. I have tried so hard to understand the mindset of people like this and I just can't. I can not ever ever understand agreeing to sneaking around with someone. To secret snuck in phonecalls, to sexy text messages and the stolen hours here and there. Why would a woman ever agree to being a secret? I've tried to figure out why they would accept a man going home to another woman every single night. Why they would accept not being able to phone their "boyfriend" anytime except during business type hours. Why they would accept being introduced as a coworker instead of the lover they are? The more I have read the more degrading it seems to be in this position. The waiting and hoping "she" throws him out so you can begin a life together. The more I have read the less I have understood the how. How can you put yourself in this position? I don't think I will ever understand the mindset of an other woman no matter how hard I try. I especially don't understand how after a dday. After the mm begs and pleads and lies to his wife the other woman again agrees to be the secret after all has settled down. If the man did not admit his love and leave his wife on dday then he isn't going anywhere and yet they agree to continue their affair in hopes that one day she will do his dirty work and throw him out. The wife doesn't know this guy is lying but the other woman sure as heck does. The wife doesn't know the extent of his deceit but the other woman sure does and yet she stays in the neverending cycle of deceit. What do you think allows them to be in a relationship like this. I actually feel so sorry for them and angry at the same time.
Cobra_X30 Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 The more I have read the more degrading it seems to be in this position. The waiting and hoping "she" throws him out so you can begin a life together. The more I have read the less I have understood the how. How can you put yourself in this position? I don't think I will ever understand the mindset of an other woman no matter how hard I try. Simple. Imagine you feel that is the best you deserve, with the dream that someday you will get more. Here is a better question. Why are you focusing on understanding her, when you need to understand him?
cj1988 Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 I agree with how can another W that has been cheated on go after my man? That is what I have in my life......she not only was having an EA with him , maybe a PA.....but tells me how her H cheats for sex only and she got over it because it was not emotional, but has an EA with mine. What a 2 faced b---- ! She is the type that goes to church every Sunday and is the "fixer" in the family, like the only one always in control. Well, I guess she was right because she had full control of everyone including my H. Sick B---- !
Author noforgiveness Posted December 5, 2007 Author Posted December 5, 2007 Simple. Imagine you feel that is the best you deserve, with the dream that someday you will get more. Here is a better question. Why are you focusing on understanding her, when you need to understand him? It's been close to two years now. I totally understand what happened with him. I know what went wrong inside of him through so many discussions of it, so many tears and so many talks. I understand his "thinking" when it happened. She was a friend. Someone my kids trusted. Someone whose 20 year marriage had just imploded over another woman and someone who would spew such venom over this woman who could do this. I just will never ever get it and I've tried so hard. I've tried to have a little bit of empathy for her and I just can't understand what ever went through her head to think this was ok. She was my friend for so many years and I honestly wanted to understand from her side and it just isn't ahppeneing. It's kind of the last part of my healing. I've healed with my husband and would like to lose the hatred I have for this person and I thought understanding would do that. I guess it won't and I guess my user name is correct. 1
curiousnycgirl Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 I can't help you understand the OW in your case, but I can shed some light on why I was the OW. Very simply I didn't want anymore. I just wanted sex. I didn't want to come home from work and have to talk to anyone, or listen to anyone, I didn't want to have anyone else's stuff in my space, I wanted my space, I didn't want to worry about the toilet seat being up, etc. etc. etc. On the other hand I would never have lied about the situation, and I never would have snuck around. Nor would I tolerate a single negative thing being said about his SO. Part of me probably wanted just that because I didn't think I deserved more, part of me just didn't want to deal with the emotional baggage that comes with a real relationship. Not sure this helps, but if it does, then I am glad.
Author noforgiveness Posted December 5, 2007 Author Posted December 5, 2007 I can't help you understand the OW in your case, but I can shed some light on why I was the OW. Very simply I didn't want anymore. I just wanted sex. I didn't want to come home from work and have to talk to anyone, or listen to anyone, I didn't want to have anyone else's stuff in my space, I wanted my space, I didn't want to worry about the toilet seat being up, etc. etc. etc. On the other hand I would never have lied about the situation, and I never would have snuck around. Nor would I tolerate a single negative thing being said about his SO. Part of me probably wanted just that because I didn't think I deserved more, part of me just didn't want to deal with the emotional baggage that comes with a real relationship. Not sure this helps, but if it does, then I am glad. Thanks for your honesty. Weren't you ever concerned with the fallout to his children though? Couldn't you have that with a single guy? Just lay the cards on the table to begin with. Or even with one night stands?
Cobra_X30 Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 It's been close to two years now. I totally understand what happened with him. I know what went wrong inside of him through so many discussions of it, so many tears and so many talks. I understand his "thinking" when it happened. Well that's the crux of it. She was hurting... feeling very low. She allowed herself to be treated poorly, because that was what she felt, she was worth. Perhaps also she saw some flaws in your M and felt she could do better for him! In the end... it doesnt matter. Your not married to her! Obsessing about the OW will get you nowhere.
cj1988 Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 I know how you feel NONF, she was my sister in law, his 1/2 sister and she was so nice to my face and then talked like CRAP behind my back with my H. So, you see....trust NO ONE !
whichwayisup Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Obsessing about the OW will get you nowhere. But she isn't just "any" OW, this woman was NF's FRIEND. She was involved in their daily lives, so this isn't just a case of forgetting the OW and not putting any anger or blame on her - This woman BETRAYED NF, lied to her, hurt her by having an affair with her husband. I'm not sure how you get over that - Time I guess? Maybe even some 'empathy' and I use that term loosely ofcourse, but what if you put yourself in her shoes, pretend your life was hers and you don't have the thinking or coping skills to deal with the pain - So, you turn to a friends husband for support - Or he starts asking how you are - You two start talking and then boom! Before you know it, the guy is feeling sorry you (aka her) and she is needy, vunerable, insecure and not thinking at all, except that she knows that when she's around him, she likes how he makes her feel...And, from there it builds. Feelings and selfishness take over and the affairyland fantasy starts. I feel for you NF, I know your story from when you first joined and dealing with double betrayal like that can take a long time to work through the hurt etc. I do have to say you have alot of strength and hopefully someday your exfriend will appologize to you, realize that she ruined a good friendship over her own selfishness.
Author noforgiveness Posted December 5, 2007 Author Posted December 5, 2007 I know how you feel NONF, she was my sister in law, his 1/2 sister and she was so nice to my face and then talked like CRAP behind my back with my H. So, you see....trust NO ONE ! Trust no one is one of the hardest parts of all this. I had a very large group of girlfriends. I don't even care to have friends now. Everyone is out for themselves. I don't even want to make a simple phone call to rsvp a party invitation. I guess you could say I'm not the fun naive woman I use to be. Such a nice part of me that I have lost. i'm not nearly as outgoing unless I am in a group of strangers that I know I can have fun with for the time and won't develop a friendship. Really sad. 1
Author noforgiveness Posted December 5, 2007 Author Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks whichway. I have tried empathy and understanding. That's why I've read so much here and it's just not happening for me. No matter which way I spin it around in my head I just can't spin it to doing this to someone who you know so well. To the kids who you saw daily. It makes no sense to me. Friend or not a friend I don't see how you could ever allow yourself to be put in the position of a secret. How can you live lies and deceit every day.
whichwayisup Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Somehow she's justified her actions and choices to be able to do what she's done to you, and your family. Have you had it out with her? Maybe consider it because as long as she is still in your mind like this, the A will affect you and your marriage. Sure, you've worked through stuff with your H and I DO believe he is genuinally regretful and sorry for his part in betraying you - But, I'm sure this does cause some resentment towards him at times still??
curiousnycgirl Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks for your honesty. Weren't you ever concerned with the fallout to his children though? Couldn't you have that with a single guy? Just lay the cards on the table to begin with. Or even with one night stands? When I first met him, I did not know he was involved - we met at a singles weekend. I became suspicious fairly early on and insisted that he take me to his house, so I could see for sure that there was no woman's stuff there. Ends up he maintained his house because she didn't want all his crap at hers - so it was very easy for him to "prove" to me that he was single. I did not discover that he was involved until I ran into him at a charity function (which I attended on behalf of my company) and someone introduced me to them. To say the least I was stunned. At that point I had become somewhat enmeshed in his life, but as I said on my own, limited terms. But his son (from a previous marriage) had moved in with me for several months due to issues at home, etc. I can honestly say that I KNOW I added value to that boy's life. We are still in touch and quite close. Once I discovered I went NC for a while, because he lied to me, and I cannot accept lying. However I could not cut his son off, so eventually he and I ended up speaking again. He did not beg me, he did not cry - we discussed it very matter of factly and I decided to continue. We continued for a total of 8 years - 6 of which I lived 1,500 miles away. As far as I can tell she never found out. Or if she did she did not care. I am still friendly with him - and he still tries to be physical. However I am now in a committed relationship and as I explained to him - I take my committments seriously even if he doesn't. As far as one night stands go - I've never been able to do that. To tell the truth it's not safe - on the other hand I NEVER set out to be part of an affair. I even went out of my way for him to "prove" to me he was unattached - he was just really good at lying. So in a sense I did think I was with a single guy - should have figured out he wasn't because he was so undemanding! I just chalked it up to the fact that he was 19 years older than me and was a confirmed bachelor - so he really knew how to be a FWB.
Shades of Grey Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 NF, I wish I could help you by providing you with some answers but if there's one thing I have learnt it's that every experience is so different. I think the answers you seek are only possible to find from the person who betrayed you. I could never ever ever do that to one of my friends. However I was an OW and if I tried to explain how I came to be in the situation I was in, how I felt at any point, justified it, continued with it I still don't think that it would relate in any way to your own experience. Having said that if I can help to answer some of your questions from my own experience I will try.
Author noforgiveness Posted December 5, 2007 Author Posted December 5, 2007 Whichway no I have not had it out with her. I can't face her can't look at her or talk to her. At this point it's not worth it. All our mutual friends have totally shunned her. Basically no one has had it out with her except her exhusband who enjoyed telling her what a piece of crap she was and how what she did was twice as bad as what he ever did to her. Yes there is still some resentment there under the surface towards husband for all this. I'm lonely now sometimes without my "friend". How sad is that? Wow cnygirl you soent a long time with hom and were involved with his son too. I guess he was not close with his stepmom that he was ok with you. I assume he was an adult when the stepmom came in the picture. Interesting situation there. Why did you stay with him for so long when he lied about being married? Didn't you consider your whole relationship a lie? Shades of grey curious how did you feel how did you justify it to yourself the first time you wanted to tell your friends about your new boyfriend or the first time you wanted to call him at night and knew you couldn't or even the first friends party you wanted to attend and couldn't bring him. How do you tell yourself that anything is ok about the relationship?
curiousnycgirl Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Actually my affair was not with a married man, but one who had a SO and was in a committed relationship. His son was younger than 10 when they got together and his SO refused to have anything to do with the son. Why I chose to stay in the relationship is a very good question. And the honest answer is that it served my purposes - I know how bad that must sound to you, but I am being honest. I will never pretend to understand the relationship he has with his SO - but it appears they give eachother a lot of freedom. According to him he was fully committed to her, but she refused to even sleep in the same room with him, let alone the same bed. Apparently she did not even know when he was out all night vs. when he came in very late. In the end I guess I decided that it was his relationship and his committment, and he could do whatever he wanted with it's context. I would also suggest that by that point I knew and cared for his son and really didn't feel I could respect a woman who refused to be ther for that kid, however that is probably me rationalizing. As far as your situation - I agree with the other posters. The betrayal of your friend is something I would not be able to understand or explain - it is not something I could ever imagine myself doing. If you truly believe you need to understand the only person who might be able to answer your questions is her - although I would doubt that it will really help. I cannot imagine the hurt you have been going through. Clearly though you have the support of your true friends.
herenow Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Hey NF. You and I joined this board at the same time. I remember reading your story and thinking how the fact that the OW was your friend was salt in the wound. It's hard enough to forgive when you have never met the OW. I think that in your case, two years isn't enough time to get be able to forgive or understand the magnitude of betrayal you have experienced. Give yourself time. As long as you understand your H and have dealt with the issues that matter to both of you, I think you will find that in time the feelings you have about the OW (your friend) will fade and then vanish. I'm not sure you will ever get an answer to your question and you may never understand her, but there will be a day when you just won't care.
Mz. Pixie Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 I agree with how can another W that has been cheated on go after my man? That is what I have in my life......she not only was having an EA with him , maybe a PA.....but tells me how her H cheats for sex only and she got over it because it was not emotional, but has an EA with mine. What a 2 faced b---- ! She is the type that goes to church every Sunday and is the "fixer" in the family, like the only one always in control. Well, I guess she was right because she had full control of everyone including my H. Sick B---- ! I understand your frustration but keep in mind, this was your H's decision as well. He is the one who took vows with you, not her.
Mz. Pixie Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 I know how you feel NONF, she was my sister in law, his 1/2 sister and she was so nice to my face and then talked like CRAP behind my back with my H. So, you see....trust NO ONE ! This is incest as well and that takes this to another level. It's just beyond sick.
OWoman Posted December 9, 2007 Posted December 9, 2007 I have been here a while now. I came here to get some understanding as to why a woman, who was once my best friend and who had been a victim of infidelity herself, would go after my husband. Yes I know it takes two and was both of them. But i just don't get it. I have read and read and read a lot of other woman boards and infidelity boards. I have tried so hard to understand the mindset of people like this and I just can't. I If bashing them and calling them whores is trying to understand them, I can understand why you've made so little progress in two years. Perhaps if you tried understanding, the way the dictionary describes it, you'd have more success?
Curmudgeon Posted December 9, 2007 Posted December 9, 2007 Every situation is different, as are the people in these relationships. You've spent a lot of time and energy here trying to make sense of them and there is none. The bottom line is that in almost every case, someone is ultimately going to be hurt whether it's the betrayed spouse, children, extended family members, coworkers, friends... All that's different is how they, the people cheated upon, deal with it. Some actually won't care. Some will be glad for an excuse to get out of the relationship. Some will be angry. Some will want to exact revenge. Some will actually become violent. Many will never trust again. Others will taint their children when it comes to relationships. Some will have revenge affairs. Meanwhile those cheated and caused the pain will have their own reactions. Some will be glad.. Some will feel proud to have "won." Some will excuse it by saying, "I didn't take vows with him/her." or some other comfortable, for them, mitigation. Some will feel guilt and remorse. Some will never do it again. Some will do it over and over with others. The commonalities are this. Someone cheated. Someone cooperated and joined them in their cheating. People lied. People were fooled. Ultimately, people were hurt. People of good character and values don't cheat. If they become more attracted to someone than they are to their partner/SO/spouse, whomever, whatever, they end the current relationship before beginning or acting upon the next one. What more do you need to understand?
marlena Posted December 9, 2007 Posted December 9, 2007 Curm, Great summation speech! That's all of it in a nutshell! Congrats.
Author noforgiveness Posted December 9, 2007 Author Posted December 9, 2007 If bashing them and calling them whores is trying to understand them, I can understand why you've made so little progress in two years. Perhaps if you tried understanding, the way the dictionary describes it, you'd have more success? I never used those words but you sure just did didn't you. Is that what you feel about yourself and project it to others feelings? Curd nice post thanks.
Tomcat33 Posted December 9, 2007 Posted December 9, 2007 I never understood affairs that start off between close married people who are also good friends. Wow not only did the cheater have no respect for the BS but the best friend didn't either, what does that mean? Does that mean they are both scum? And if so why would you even care what drives them? I would let them be to get on with each other if they are both scum they both deserve each other don't they? Is it a matter of proximity do these relationships flourish because the couples spend a lot of time together? And how could two people betray the trust of one human being like that? That must be so horrible to deal with. I'll never understand that either. 1
Author noforgiveness Posted December 9, 2007 Author Posted December 9, 2007 And how could two people betray the trust of one human being like that? That must be so horrible to deal with. I'll never understand that either. I don't know Tomcat. how can they? How can you betray another human being so by having sex with her husband? Hmmmm you asked the question how is that possible? How must you feel doing something like that? Oh she's a person you don't know so that makes it ok? Ummmm no I don't think so. What a world we would be living in if everyong only killed about those whom they personally know. Very sad. Gosh didn't you even do it in the same hotel room with the wife and kids sleeping. Ewww that just gives me the chills.
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