New to the board...but not the situation

[TheDevilsBabe]

well first off i just want to say that im glad i found this forum....wasnt sure if there was something like this out there.....but i look forward to "getting to know" all of ya'll and hopefully share some stories and laughs and insight and Lawd knows being in the OW situation...well theres not alot of support out there for "us" so yeah....

well, something about myself i suppose would be in order....im a 47 yr old single female who slipped into the position of OW over two years ago. yes i say slipped cause i really didnt see it coming...never thought i would enter into a situation like this. oh one of my gf's saw it coming....the way he and i would interact around each other, the playfulness between us....but i never thought i would cross the line with a committed man...just goes to prove: "Never Say Never" eh?

We live in REAL close proximity to each other...and i have to admit...steal away quite a bit of time with each other.....and walking the tightrope of not letting his SO know what is going on has proven time after time to be...ummmmm....quite interesting *for lack of a better word* No i dont interact with his SO on a personal level....wave hi, maybe chit chat some small talk when i see her...but No, her and i are not friends per se......altho there is some interaction between the houses on occasion....yeah, other than me being the OW...........anyways, the relationship i share with him amazes me cause even after all this time we have been involved....im okay with things the way they are.......dont want them to change...have no delusions about "making him mine" etc etc...... after he and i understood that yes, we were going to be more than just neighbors..there was no way to deny the chemistry between us any longer.....well...both of us laid out some rules....yes, i understand he will never put my feelings above hers..he will always choose her over me.....and yes he understands that he will not control my life or my actions...and he KNOWS if she ever comes right out and asks me if i am having an affair with him....I WILL NOT LIE!! so thats just the chance he takes if he doesnt keep our cover....anyways, thats a lil something bout me an the situation im in.....just thought id share............

[NoIDidn't]

Welcome, DB.

[head.heart& hand]

[quote=

 

•"Never Say Never" eh?

• Im okay with things the way they are.......dont want them to change...have no delusions about "making him mine" etc etc...

 

 

Understood.--------Until the devil gets the best of you and you DO want them to change and you DO get delusional, etc... etc...

 

Its likely there are quite a few people here on LS (my hand is raised) who started off in one relationship with a mm and it evolved into another (deeper relationship). Perhaps you will always keep your head and heart in check, but beware, you might end up in a completly different place somewhere down the road. It's obviouosly risky business for your mm to jeapordize his marriage, but there might be more at stake for you than you think. And by the way, if your friendd picked up the vibes between the two of you, its likely others have (or will) as well.

 

In brief, I would be cautious in assuming that your feeling can't or won't change if you contuinue with the affair.

[head.heart& hand]

Oh wait, perhaps I read your post too quickly and assumed he was married.

Is he married or is he in a committed relationship?

[TheDevilsBabe]

No...hes not married...they have been together for over 6 years.. they have their house and assets in joint names and may as well be married as far as im concerned .....ive been placed in situations having to see them as a couple *albeit its only happened a coupla times* and i have to admit...they are good together...you can tell..and surprizingly enough there werent any of those jealous kinds of feelings...its THEM as a couple...WE are NOT a couple...and in all the time that he and i have been involved...i have never heard him badmouth his SO....and having come to know some of their history...well...i know she is one hellava woman...which is WHY if she ever came to me and asked me....well...i would not lie....... fact is....he and i are just two people who have found a connection and have chosen to share and explore each others minds and bodies...now i can honestly say Im not going to lie and say i havent wondered sometimes if my emotions will one day get the best of me and i become a jealous emotional needy basketcase having put myself in the position of OW....and also have questioned myself as to whyyyyyy i dont want more in a relationship with him...i mean...is there some deep seeded thought that "this is all i deserve" etc, etc, all that psychological babble....and all i can say is that..no..i know better.....i know im a worthwhile person who deserves the absolute best in a relationship....and this is what works for me. it fits. somehow, my needs are being met and i am emotionally/physically satisfied in a way that few can understand.... as far as the posting that implied other people will see the connection...the familiarity that lovers have between themselves that ONLY comes from being lovers...well, i suppose thats possible...but we dont have common friends, etc...so thats highly unlikely...only an occasional run in once in a while out in the neighborhood...and well...as bad as this sounds....we've managed to pull it off so far.......

[curiousnycgirl]

Welcome DB -

 

I understand completely where you are coming from. I was an OW for 8 years with a man I knew I would never want to pursue anything further with. We met while I lived in TX, very near him, and continued 6 years after I moved back to NYC. It met my needs at the time, and worked for me.

 

I didn't end it until I met my current b/f 3.5 years ago - clearly I was finally ready for something more in my life by then.

 

At no time did I ever expect him to leave his SO for me, and I would never have done anything to jeopardize what they had.

 

You will have both friendly and not so nice input here - hey it's what makes the world go round!

[head.heart& hand]

Hi again Db,

 

It appears that you are mature, realistic and truly comfortable with the situation just the way it is. I suppose my last line in suggesting caution was all that was necessary (although so obvious as you already know and have weighed this--).

 

After frequenting LS regularly for the past few weeks, I've read (and written myself) a lot about heartache and the pain in sharing a married/committed man. However, you've been able to navigate your relationship in a way that works positively for you. Your needs are being met and you're not compromising your principles, as you stated that you would be honest should the OW confront you regarding your relationship with your shared partner. You've been forthright with your cm ( committed man) about your position. Fair enough on your end.

 

So good luck as you move forward and Hey, I liked your suggestion about sharing some laughs, so count me in on that end.

[TheDevilsBabe]

Humor is essential to mental health for several reasons. First, it assists us to connect with others. Our needs to affiliate with others is enhanced through humor.

Second, humor reduces stress by assisting us to view the world with perspective. Humor shifts the ways in which we think, and distress is greatly associated with the way we think. It is not situations that generate our stress, it is the meaning we place on the situations. Humor adjusts the meaning

so

that the event is not

so

powerful. Shakespeare has said, "Nothing is good or bad. It is thinking that makes it

so

."

Third, humor helps us by replacing distressing emotions with pleasurable feelings. As I wrote in one of my articles, "Humor and distressing emotions cannot occupy the same psychological space." You cannot feel angry, depressed, anxious, guilty, or resentful and experience humor at the same time. Most of us have experienced a time when we have been angry and someone, while in the throws of our being angry, does or says something humorous. A typical response is, "Don’t make me laugh. I want to be angry." Intuitively we know that we cannot maintain distress and experience humor simultaneously.

Fourth, humor changes how we behave, when we experience humor we talk more, make more eye contact with others, touch others, etc. Humor increases energy, and with increased energy we may perform activities that we might otherwise avoid.

Fifth, humor changes our biochemical state by decreasing stress hormones and increasing infection fighting antibodies. It increases our attentiveness, heart rate, and pulse.

Finally, humor is good for mental health because it feels good!

 

 

*Note: came from an forwarded email one day....author was not noted...my apologies*

[whichwayisup]

and also have questioned myself as to whyyyyyy i dont want more in a relationship with him...i mean...is there some deep seeded thought that "this is all i deserve" etc, etc, all that psychological babble..

 

I hope you know you deserve more...Problem is, he won't ever be able to give you more, he can only give you a tiny part of him. Maybe for now that's enough, but one day you will want more. You'll want to start a family, build a life with someone..

 

Another thing, maybe you also don't want it all with him because you know he's capable of cheating on his partner. You say that their relationship seems very good and he doesn't bash her, and you like her too...Well, in one sense he may be a good guy, but in another sense what he is doing is very cruel by betraying her. They are commonlaw, share expenses and a house, so legally they are bound to eachother.

 

If she ever does approach you, I do hope you tell her the truth and don't prptect him. Eventually she will catch on, and who knows how she'll react when DDay (discovery day) happens.

[frannie]

Hello TDB and welcome to the forum. First off, if you're looking for more 'support' for being in an affair, you could do an internet search on 'The Other Woman' and there is another forum out there which you might find useful.

 

I just wanted to comment on this:

 

... even after all this time we have been involved....im okay with things the way they are.......dont want them to change...have no delusions about "making him mine" etc etc...... after he and i understood that yes, we were going to be more than just neighbors..there was no way to deny the chemistry between us any longer.....well...both of us laid out some rules....yes, i understand he will never put my feelings above hers..he will always choose her over me.....and yes he understands that he will not control my life or my actions...and he KNOWS if she ever comes right out and asks me if i am having an affair with him....I WILL NOT LIE!!

 

... he and i are just two people who have found a connection and have chosen to share and explore each others minds and bodies...now i can honestly say Im not going to lie and say i havent wondered sometimes if my emotions will one day get the best of me and i become a jealous emotional needy basketcase having put myself in the position of OW....and also have questioned myself as to whyyyyyy i dont want more in a relationship with him...i mean...is there some deep seeded thought that "this is all i deserve" etc, etc, all that psychological babble....and all i can say is that..no..i know better.....i know im a worthwhile person who deserves the absolute best in a relationship....and this is what works for me. it fits. somehow, my needs are being met and i am emotionally/physically satisfied in a way that few can understand....

 

Not meaning to attack you or put you on the spot, but since you put all this out there... Do you really think that 'the absolute best' in a relationship is to have the man you're involved with always put someone else first? I'm just wondering how that can be, and what has led you to this conclusion, if that's the case.

 

You talk about making someone yours, and wanting to be with them and be put first as being 'an emotionally needy basketcase'... and I'm wondering if that's how you see people who have normal emotional needs... or if you're referring to stalking, calling the W, etc. as it's very hard to tell from what you've written.

 

Also, I'm wondering why you seem to be almost smiling as you talk about hiding what's going on from his SO, but you assert that if she confronted you directly you would not lie. Just wondering what the thinking is there, and whether you can honestly say that you wouldn't try to hide the affair if she asked you questions?

[TheDevilsBabe]

Quote from whichwayisup:

"I hope you know you deserve more...Problem is, he won't ever be able to give you more, he can only give you a tiny part of him. Maybe for now that's enough, but one day you will want more. You'll want to start a family, build a life with someone..Another thing, maybe you also don't want it all with him because you know he's capable of cheating on his partner. You say that their relationship seems very good and he doesn't bash her, and you like her too...Well, in one sense he may be a good guy, but in another sense what he is doing is very cruel by betraying her. They are commonlaw, share expenses and a house, so legally they are bound to eachother. If she ever does approach you, I do hope you tell her the truth and don't prptect him. Eventually she will catch on, and who knows how she'll react when DDay (discovery day) happens."

 

Well, let me respond that this posting first….and maybe that will clear some up for the following post below the above mentioned one also...

I honestly don’t want more than what the relationship I have with him offers….if I did I would pursue a different type of relationship. What I share with him, and what he in turn shares with me….fits my needs and desires. Anything more just wouldn’t fit with my personality or continue to satisfy me.

 

Hmmmm….want to build a life with someone and START a family?? I am 47 yrs old TYVM…I have already built a life for myself that I am quite satisfied with and I have also raised my family….my kids are grown and thankfully all productive members of society so yes, that womanly desire has already been fulfilled and NO I have no desire to start a second edition in that area at this stage in my life.

 

Not want him all to myself cause I know he will cheat? Well, cheating on a spouse is a human fault…anyone is capable of cheating…we all have our own personal faults…which ones we display or act on is just a Matter of Choice….do you CHOOSE to cheat or do you choose NOT TO cheat…*and remember….Never Say Never* in either event…I don’t want him all to myself….24/7/365…..*see first paragraph of this response*

 

As far as his being cruel to his SO by being involved in an affair with me…that’s on his conscience…not mine. As horrible as that sounds...its a fact. Apparently hes found a way to deal with it. What I do know..as stated earlier…in the over two years we’ve been involved…at times we’ve talked in length about the goings on in THEIR world together…and I’ve yet to hear anything unkind or disrespectful when he speaks of her. To me…that speaks MOUNDS in terms of the love and respect he has for her. Some people have the unique ability to separate different factions of their lives…NOT letting one portion effect the another…I must admit…compartmentalizing works for some people…not so well for others. In this case, it appears to be working quite well as I’ve not seen nor heard any negative effects.

 

My last two observations and comments in regards to whichwayisup’s comments are as follows:

 

1.) Of course they are legally bound in many, many ways. They have build THEIR world together jointly and combined. As it should be. I don’t want his assets, etc…I'm not interested in HIS/THEIRS…I have built my own and am quite comfortable with what I’ve acquired on my own in my lifetime.

2.)As far as Dday…well….yes, I know in my heart of hearts that I would not lie to her….that is a commitment I’ve made to myself. As far as what happens then afterwards???

Whatever will happen whenever it happens no matter what happens.

 

**Note to whichwayisup: I honestly appreciate your input and views...the reason i entered into this forum was to be able to discuss different views on extramarital affairs...your concerns are appropriate perhaps for others in a similar situation...just not mine. That being said...please know I look forward to "the back and forth" between us

 

***Note to frannie: I would love to respond to your posting right now...but ahhhh, life is knocking at my door and I have to run therefore i cannot dedicate the time to making a proper posting...which your comments derserve..not some lil snippet posting...so....I will be back in a little bit to post a response...oh, and HI!! Nice to meet you! Love the quote at the end lolololol

[TheDevilsBabe]

Quote from Frannie:

"Not meaning to attack you or put you on the spot, but since you put all this out there"

 

I entered into this forum fully aware that any decent discussion on my particular situation would require me to post certain facts, clarify statements and respond to questions of all kinds. So, no, I will not take offense to honest and sincerely made postings…I also have an uncanny ability to filter inappropriate, mean, negative comments out, online and in "real time" and not let anyone get my goat." Everyone is entitled to their opinions and views…so No…I wont take it as a personal attack and actually look forward to challenging posts "putting me on the spot" so to speak. *As long as they are mature in the way they go about it* For me, being a member of this forum gives me the opportunity to speak on the subject and my personal situation without having it interfere with my "real world" life…under a cloak of darkness so to speak….So, post away frannie…I look forward to more stimulating postings from you.

 

Quote from Frannie:

"Do you really think that 'the absolute best' in a relationship is to have the man you're involved with always put someone else first? I'm just wondering how that can be, and what has led you to this conclusion, if that's the case."

 

If I wanted to be in a relationship where I was put first…then, believe me…yes, I would walk away, no hard feelings and let life happen and see what blossomed. At this point in time…being involved with him does work for me…it is "the best" as far as what I AM willing to not only receive from someone but also return in a relationship. I am realistically in tune with my wants, needs and desires and have learned over the years how to pay attention my feelings. And fix what needs fixing. And not fix it if it isn't broke. Lolololol I also have to say "being put first" in a relationship, in my opinion, comes with a lot of responsibility etc, etc…and well…having raised my family and dedicated, for the most part, my time and energy to the needs of many others…I believe that its my time now to enjoy my life as a grown woman and not put others needs ahead of mine in a way that would be detrimental to my own emotional health. So, No, I'm not first in his book…but then again…he is neither first in my book. I am true to MY wants, needs and desires first and foremost…with the exception of my children of course.

 

Quote from Frannie:

"You talk about making someone yours, and wanting to be with them and be put first as being 'an emotionally needy basketcase'... and I'm wondering if that's how you see people who have normal emotional needs... or if you're referring to stalking, calling the W, etc. as it's very hard to tell from what you've written."

 

An emotional needy basketcase is not NORMAL human emotions….so yes, I am referencing the over the edge, unstable side of an individuals mind that leads to problem sometimes dangerous type behaviors and attitudes. So the later of your statement is correct. I am fully aware of healthy human emotions in a relationship and how one goes about displaying them. I am also aware how to recognize if feelings are stemming from the dark side of the psyche. I want to also state that should unhealthy feelings *on either his part or mine* enter into our relationship…I am quite confident that I would deal with this…NOT STUGGLE AND DELAY…and exit the relationship. After over two years…I am confident that this would still occur. We both entered into this with eyes open.

 

Quote from Frannie:

"Also, I'm wondering why you seem to be almost smiling as you talk about hiding what's going on from his SO, but you assert that if she confronted you directly you would not lie. Just wondering what the thinking is there, and whether you can honestly say that you wouldn't try to hide the affair if she asked you questions?"

 

Well, I am smiling to be honest…quite happy, because the fact is, he and I being involved over such a long period of time has not affected his primary relationship. From what he and I can tell. And yes, I’ve checked on this because, well, we’ve been involved for over two years and I was curious. I honestly don’t want to create problems in THEIR world. Strange as that sounds…its true. They live, laugh and love…having their own personal problems to be sure…every relationship does…but our involvement has not presented a problem in THEIR world. Not yet at least *knock on wood* because yes, I am aware that someday she may become curious or find out even….and NO I would not lie should she approach me and ask for a definition of the friendship I have with him. And honestly I would rather her become curious and inquire as opposed to "finding out" somehow….for some reason…and I’m not quite sure how or why…but it helps me in my own mind to know that I would be absolutely upfront and honest with her. Weird huh? But yes, I would give her the respect of being honest with her. She would definitely be entitled to that. What she would choose to do with the information…that would be her choice.

[liddie]

Hi and welcome,

 

My situation is similar to yours. The way it differs is that when my R started I allowed it to become emotional and what a lousy ride that was. Over the past few months I gained some much needed perspective (he was gone for a month). Now I am in the same mindset you are in as far as being fine with the limitations placed on the R. Now my MM is infact M and we have been together for almost a year.

 

I am glad that you have found LS and have posted here about your R. It is refreshing and most welcome.

[TheDevilsBabe]

Hi Liddie! Nice to "meet" you.

 

Yes, bringing HEAVY emotions into a relationship such as the kind we are discussing most definetly is hazardous territory. And something that should be avoided at all costs *in my opinion* since the tax on ones mental health can be quite damaging. That was something my MM and i discussed at the very onset of our relationship. it was obvious to us both it wasnt going to just be a one time thing..the chemistry and connection was too electric.....and because we are human...there is the chance of feelings developing over time and we spent some serious conversation time developing rules for how to make this a mutually beneficial affair for the both of us. Chaos and Drama Free. A rollercoaster ride IS NOT something that either one of us wanted to be involved in..nor would either one of us participate in....as our separate lives is full enough of ups and downs..as everyones life is.....and the time we spend together...would be just that....time spent together. We are great friends FIRST. Lovers SECOND. Of course we discuss things in our separate lives with each other...listen to each other...bounce ideas and thoughts off of one another pertaining to different areas of our lives.... The ability to communicate and the connection with each others mind was what first pulled us together. We think alot alike. We are great friends. Of course there are feelings involved. I adore what we share together and the affection that he feels towards me is clearly the same...however, we both remain aware that...it is what it is...time spent together....i take that statement so seriously in fact lololol i actually have a hard time labeling it " the/our relationship" when posting..however when speaking about it here...i have no choice.....but honestly i believe thinking in terms like..not labeling it a relationship in every day terms of life....knowing the boundries of what it is...and what it ISNT... is *part of* exactly what makes what we share work so wonderfully thus far. Knowing ones limits in any area of life is never a bad thing in my opinion. Especially in the area of "Love" and personal affection.

And thank you Liddie....I too am glad that i came across this website. I actually dont even remember when or how i stumbled across the link..but i most definetly believe i shall make this my "new home" and look forward to "getting to know" and hearing from all here and sharing views and experiences.

[frannie]

If I wanted to be in a relationship where I was put first…then, believe me…yes, I would walk away, no hard feelings and let life happen and see what blossomed. At this point in time…being involved with him does work for me…it is "the best" as far as what I AM willing to not only receive from someone but also return in a relationship. I am realistically in tune with my wants, needs and desires and have learned over the years how to pay attention my feelings. And fix what needs fixing. And not fix it if it isn't broke. Lolololol I also have to say "being put first" in a relationship, in my opinion, comes with a lot of responsibility etc, etc…and well…having raised my family and dedicated, for the most part, my time and energy to the needs of many others…I believe that its my time now to enjoy my life as a grown woman and not put others needs ahead of mine in a way that would be detrimental to my own emotional health. So, No, I'm not first in his book…but then again…he is neither first in my book. I am true to MY wants, needs and desires first and foremost…with the exception of my children of course.

 

Hello again, thanks for the considered reply

 

Do you not think you could have such an arrangement with someone who wasn't married? Or is it the fact he's married that is the important part of this arrangement? Or is it HIM that's important (as a person), and it's just an incidental that he's married?

 

I'm just wondering whether there aren't men available who would NOT put you first even if they weren't married. Not to put too fine a point on it I've met plenty of selfish men who are great at not putting me first (had relationships with some of them ) and they weren't married.

 

So... is it him, or is it that he's married, do you think?

 

Would you still want a relationship with him if he were divorced?

[OWoman]

Ulp! this could have been me, not so very long ago.

Hi DB and welcome. I hope you're able to sustain it for longer than I was...

 

Quote from Frannie:

"Not meaning to attack you or put you on the spot, but since you put all this out there"

 

I entered into this forum fully aware that any decent discussion on my particular situation would require me to post certain facts, clarify statements and respond to questions of all kinds. So, no, I will not take offense to honest and sincerely made postings…I also have an uncanny ability to filter inappropriate, mean, negative comments out, online and in "real time" and not let anyone get my goat." Everyone is entitled to their opinions and views…so No…I wont take it as a personal attack and actually look forward to challenging posts "putting me on the spot" so to speak. *As long as they are mature in the way they go about it* For me, being a member of this forum gives me the opportunity to speak on the subject and my personal situation without having it interfere with my "real world" life…under a cloak of darkness so to speak….So, post away frannie…I look forward to more stimulating postings from you.

 

Quote from Frannie:

"Do you really think that 'the absolute best' in a relationship is to have the man you're involved with always put someone else first? I'm just wondering how that can be, and what has led you to this conclusion, if that's the case."

 

If I wanted to be in a relationship where I was put first…then, believe me…yes, I would walk away, no hard feelings and let life happen and see what blossomed. At this point in time…being involved with him does work for me…it is "the best" as far as what I AM willing to not only receive from someone but also return in a relationship. I am realistically in tune with my wants, needs and desires and have learned over the years how to pay attention my feelings. And fix what needs fixing. And not fix it if it isn't broke. Lolololol I also have to say "being put first" in a relationship, in my opinion, comes with a lot of responsibility etc, etc…and well…having raised my family and dedicated, for the most part, my time and energy to the needs of many others…I believe that its my time now to enjoy my life as a grown woman and not put others needs ahead of mine in a way that would be detrimental to my own emotional health. So, No, I'm not first in his book…but then again…he is neither first in my book. I am true to MY wants, needs and desires first and foremost…with the exception of my children of course.

 

Quote from Frannie:

"You talk about making someone yours, and wanting to be with them and be put first as being 'an emotionally needy basketcase'... and I'm wondering if that's how you see people who have normal emotional needs... or if you're referring to stalking, calling the W, etc. as it's very hard to tell from what you've written."

 

An emotional needy basketcase is not NORMAL human emotions….so yes, I am referencing the over the edge, unstable side of an individuals mind that leads to problem sometimes dangerous type behaviors and attitudes. So the later of your statement is correct. I am fully aware of healthy human emotions in a relationship and how one goes about displaying them. I am also aware how to recognize if feelings are stemming from the dark side of the psyche. I want to also state that should unhealthy feelings *on either his part or mine* enter into our relationship…I am quite confident that I would deal with this…NOT STUGGLE AND DELAY…and exit the relationship. After over two years…I am confident that this would still occur. We both entered into this with eyes open.

 

Quote from Frannie:

"Also, I'm wondering why you seem to be almost smiling as you talk about hiding what's going on from his SO, but you assert that if she confronted you directly you would not lie. Just wondering what the thinking is there, and whether you can honestly say that you wouldn't try to hide the affair if she asked you questions?"

 

Well, I am smiling to be honest…quite happy, because the fact is, he and I being involved over such a long period of time has not affected his primary relationship. From what he and I can tell. And yes, I’ve checked on this because, well, we’ve been involved for over two years and I was curious. I honestly don’t want to create problems in THEIR world. Strange as that sounds…its true. They live, laugh and love…having their own personal problems to be sure…every relationship does…but our involvement has not presented a problem in THEIR world. Not yet at least *knock on wood* because yes, I am aware that someday she may become curious or find out even….and NO I would not lie should she approach me and ask for a definition of the friendship I have with him. And honestly I would rather her become curious and inquire as opposed to "finding out" somehow….for some reason…and I’m not quite sure how or why…but it helps me in my own mind to know that I would be absolutely upfront and honest with her. Weird huh? But yes, I would give her the respect of being honest with her. She would definitely be entitled to that. What she would choose to do with the information…that would be her choice.

[TheDevilsBabe]

The following are ALL QUOTES from Frannies post:

 

"Do you not think you could have such an arrangement with someone who wasn't married?"

 

I like to think I could….in other words, I have not walled myself into "my own little world" and allergic to attempting. I am open to the option of developing a new relationship should someone catch my attention. Translated (lol) means I am not sitting around, pinning my days away, waiting for my MM to "become mine."

 

"Or is it the fact he's married that is the important part of this arrangement? Or is it HIM that's important (as a person), and it's just an incidental that he's married?"

 

His personality and outlook were the main drawing factors. Our compatibility on so many levels was just astounding to me. I have to admit to the fact that the sexual tension was immense. Being aware of boundaries and such…i have NEVER in my life even entertained the thought of being involved with a MM...that was strictly OFF LIMITS...so I knew I had to minimize contact with him as much as possible so as to not be tempted to cross. *This was aFIRST where i actually had desires in a MM and i knew it would be *dangerous* territory, but i could feel it...the connection had been made, and in spite of my attempts trying to ignore him and "it" and pretend there was nothing there….ultimately it was a connection that couldn’t be denied any longer. So, to answer this question in my long winded way…the fact that he’s a MM is just what it is…it’s a pre-exsisting fact….its definitely HIM AS A PERSON that was the draw. But I will say, I have become quite spoiled in our arrangement as far as the give and take being involved with a MM. *which is what made me struggle with your last question so long*

 

"I'm just wondering whether there aren't men available who would NOT put you first even if they weren't married. Not to put too fine a point on it I've met plenty of selfish men who are great at not putting me first (had relationships with some of them ) and they weren't married"

 

I’ve attempted in the past to try in the relationship world….and well, I just haven’t found anyone who can relate to the give and take I'm willing to expend in terms of a relationship. I'm sure there are men out there capable of having the kind of relationship that I desire…just haven’t came across him yet. Its been my experience that grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr in spite of knowing my outlook and needs in a relationship….in time, "taking it to the next level" has always come up and then I have to deal with the inevitable….the breaking up because I'm just not willing to go there and DON’T believe in stringing someone along when they are in search of their happiness.

 

"Would you still want a relationship with him if he were divorced?"

 

Wow! That’s a stumper there Frannie. Honestly…this is the question that forced me to take so long to respond too because I didn’t want to leave it out of my posting. 3 points for you!! A brain tickler. I really had to think about this one. Ok, *cough choke spit* here goes.... who knows? :laugh: There are so many things that would effect that decision…were his feelings for me the reason? * "NEVER LEAVE HER FOR ME"* is one of our Golden Rules* Or was it just a long time coming? *People change over time, marriages end* to just name a couple. All I can say, the best I can come up with, Golden Rule NOT broken…. is Maybe, because of course I have feelings for him…but OMGGGGG it would change so many faucets of our relationship. Am I ready for something like that? Being in a "deep love" relationship is just not something I'm comfortable with as I recognize in the past its been too taxing on me. How much of myself, personal space and freedom would I be willing to share and/or give up and NOT resent?? And being honest with myself…and you and the board here…….I'm just not any good at tippy-toeing around someone elses feelings. Which is the reason there I insist on rules to begin with. I'm not out to hurt anyones feelings or mislead someone "down the garden path" and I have to be true to myself first. I believe I would insist on a cooling down period of some sort…a set amount of time away from each other completly to see if yes, being together as a REAL couple is something that we actually not only wanted but believed we could make work after having a set kind of relationship for so long while he was married. And just to add....The fact that he had been in an outside affair with me would not deter me from committing and no i dont believe trust would be an issue. Its just an answer to a ? i had read in a different posting and thought i would throw that in, since you made me think of all this anyways lolololol anddddddd for the record misssssssss fannieeeeee i did not enjoy having to dig for THAT answer, hence the 3 points because you had me off into very uncomfortable territory *because im one of those OW who DOES NOT have THAT dream* and that made me take a real deep realistic look at myself ANDDDD my MM by posing that hypothetical…thank you for tickling my brain and making me nervous by "forcing" me to examine my inner self and feelings with that last question...because yes i so know he is not perfect and has his own personal quirks/traits/habits...as do I....Hugssssssssssss *

[TheDevilsBabe]

Quote from OWoman:

"Ulp! this could have been me, not so very long ago.

Hi DB and welcome. I hope you're able to sustain it for longer than I was..."

 

Thanks for the welcome and kind wishes OWoman. I knew there were more than just two or three OW out there who shared the unique outlook as i do. So nice to meet you! I look forward to more exchanges between the two of us and learning/understanding your views/thoughts and situation...both past and present

Lasting longer than yours did...well, how long did yours last?? what culmulated the ending?? if you dont mind me asking.... i hope, overall.... i will be able to remember the bottom line: It has been great relationship, having taught me alot about myself....and Ive had tons of laughter and pleasure...so....ummm, yeah.....

 

"Whatever will happen, No matter what happens, Whenever it happens!"

 

(Hey i think i will make that my signature once i have time. :laugh: Right now, Im outta here. Again, nice to meet you)

[frannie]

LOL... in response to your long post above.. I'm glad I made you laugh and think about things. I am pretty sure you're not alone in your thoughts and feelings about being in an affair. There's another OW forum out there where you would probably feel very much at home being settled with your MM and not wanting things to change. I think it's not uncommon where a woman has already done the marriage thing and bought up her children and doesn't need or want a live-in situation in future.

 

Actually it does have it's appeal... living alone and having a lover, with no ties, and the 'rules of engagement' laid out. Thinking about it, I remember seeing that it's a new trend in the UK that even married people have their own separate homes, and visit and go on dates together. Perhaps it's the new way to go?

[OpenBook]

LOL... in response to your long post above.. I'm glad I made you laugh and think about things. I am pretty sure you're not alone in your thoughts and feelings about being in an affair. There's another OW forum out there where you would probably feel very much at home being settled with your MM and not wanting things to change. I think it's not uncommon where a woman has already done the marriage thing and bought up her children and doesn't need or want a live-in situation in future.

 

That's great to hear - I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way!!

 

Actually it does have it's appeal... living alone and having a lover, with no ties, and the 'rules of engagement' laid out. Thinking about it, I remember seeing that it's a new trend in the UK that even married people have their own separate homes, and visit and go on dates together. Perhaps it's the new way to go?

 

You know, I can really see that working!! I hope you're right, and it catches on in the States as well. This has been a lifelong conflict in me... wanting to keep my independence while at the same time pining for a committed, solid, steady R. I never thought I could have both. Is it really possible??

[TheDevilsBabe]

Quote from Frannie:

"in response to your long post above.."

 

As you can probably tell, I'm a "communicator." I enjoy when in a discussion, listening and delving into the depths. Just because some folks can maybe come close to hitting on the same thing in a few sentences well, Me?? I tend to, oh, run on a tad, lets say, :laugh: go a little deeper. Ive learned Chaos and Drama have a tendency to not to appear quite so often when you are upfront with yourself and your feelings, and you examine them and voice them. Yes, I like to "chew things up and spit them out." Ive found that if something needs to be said… after having given it adequate thought (since normally for the most part I don’t do knee jerk responses in areas of importance) I'm going to bring in onto the table for discussion. I guess I'm just no good at keeping things in when they are at issue with me. On a lighter note…Sure good friends joke with me about it, cause I'm going to make you THINK about what you say and how you feel…..and my MM has a ton of fun with it, (I let him have his fun and then I just tell him "you know that’s part of what enriches our relationship and endears me to you!") but they also know that I'm nottttt the one who is going to "brush you off" with a simple answer or opinion. I like going in depth. Discovery is such a wonderful process and no telling where, what started as a "simple" conversation will lead you to find about yourself and others. And now, I’ve rambled long enough and I have to get ready for the day.

 

Before I do tho, (yes, still going and going) :laugh: I wanted to say…I think that separate housing is for sure catching on, not only abroad…but here in the States as well. I mean, look at how many couples have long distance relationships for one example, and successful ones too! its all in what fits the need and if their relationship is solid enough to sustain such. I honestly believe the demise of relationships would diminish substantially if more people were honest with themselves and admitted/or accepted the fact that "I just cant live with you." After all, a lot of times, it’s a great relationship, but its those little petty things that come with combining households that add up and become insurmountable, thus forcing the end of the relationship. "We got along great until we moved in with each other." Alright, NOW I'm outtttttt!!! Have a great day ladies! Much love to you…..

[OpenBook]

TDB you are a strange creature. Intriguing, but strange! As a hypothetical, how would you feel if you found out your guy was also seeing an OOW? Would you be jealous? In case I'm not as transparent as I think I am in asking that question,... I'm testing your theory that you understand the limitations of your relationship, and that you've both agreed not to limit or control the other in any way. I am of the opinion that it is not humanly possible to love someone (in the romantic sense) without expecting ANYTHING AT ALL from them... and I have yet to meet anyone who has proven me wrong.

[TheDevilsBabe]

Quote from OpenBook:

"TDB you are a strange creature. Intriguing, but strange! As a hypothetical, how would you feel if you found out your guy was also seeing an OOW? Would you be jealous? In case I'm not as transparent as I think I am in asking that question,... I'm testing your theory that you understand the limitations of your relationship, and that you've both agreed not to limit or control the other in any way. I am of the opinion that it is not humanly possible to love someone (in the romantic sense) without expecting ANYTHING AT ALL from them... and I have yet to meet anyone who has proven me wrong."

 

Why thank you!! :laugh: Altho I prefer to consider myself ummmm, unique and unconventional in my way of thinking, its not the first time ive been called strange, I can live with that…knowing that nine times out of ten, its said with affection. To answer your question, No, I wouldn’t be jealous, feel betrayed, etc. etc. We have what we have…a beautiful friendship and a very passionate physical affair. In that order. Our relationship was formed on friendship FIRST. Would I feel as if I wasn’t fulfilling some need of his, blah, blah, blah….all that psychological babble.......No! *I had mentioned in a previous posting of mine that I had no self esteem issues…guess this is where it comes out *

I would probably tease him accordingly by nicknaming him SuperMan for his ability to juggle so much with a full plate and wish him the best at not being caught or getting tramatized/dramatized for not every female involved with a MM has my uinque outlook! hahahaha! Nowww, all that being said on the emotional level…………health wise…yes, I would be concerned and wish to know some minor details as to how they were carrying on their affair, so as to not to become jeopardized myself. That’s just common courtesy when involved in an OW/open relationship kind of affair. As far as I am aware, he has not. I will continue to believe that until he gives ME reason to doubt that, but one really never does know. (Never Say Never, right?) Have I since being involved with him? Yes. There has been a time where I met and began seeing someone else. Perhaps even *choke cough spit* contemplated making it a traditional relationship at one point…however the lines of communication were very open between my MM and I before it even started with this SG i knew and he (MM) was aware and it really had no effect on what and how we shared what we shared. Yes, it’s a strange relationship my MM and I have…. For some unknown reason it appears to quite satisfy the both of us. Now, do I have expectations?? In only the stupid qirly sense really. Like if I need something "manly" done around the house, or if I'm having trouble with something and just cant quite do it myself…or maybe stuggling with something internally…and would like some outside input...then sure, yes, I will talk to him about it or I will ask *if necessary* for his help. He is not uncomfortable with that and seems to enjoy it. As a matter of fact…notices things that need done on his own around my home and offers himself to tend to it. So, in some ways, I guess I do have expectations….

*sighs outloud* and yet another posting that has made me realize something else about the relationship with my MM. It really, really is QUITE STRANGE!! much love to you