Gwyneth Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Here we go again...... And on a side note... JMC, Thank you!!! I probably haven't noticed since I don't memorize posters to responses, but lately I have been paying special attention to thsoe who sympathasize rather than hate on
Gwyneth Posted December 4, 2007 Posted December 4, 2007 Openbook- If you take note... My response was to indicate that this thread isn't to sit and discuss what's right/moral, etc... My attempt to answer the question does talk about what's "right"...but I'm not attempting to DEFINE that, or DEBATE it, on this thread. What I'm trying to avoid is discussing that "right and wrong", and focus on seeing what reasons people are posting here. The right/wrong/moral discussion NEEDS to take place...but please do so on a seperate thread to keep from distracting from THIS discussion. If you want to discuss about right/wrong moral...start your own thread. I'll gladly post and discuss there. Thanks. I was under the impression you were directing this question to the Other persons? Correct me if I'm wrong, but since this is a thread titled OM / OW, I would assume you were directing this to them only. The problem is, this room is mixed with mice and rats--they just do not mix well or play nice when in a locked cage together.
OpenBook Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 I want to help people make the right choices, and stick to them. Openbook- If you take note... My response was to indicate that this thread isn't to sit and discuss what's right/moral, etc... My attempt to answer the question does talk about what's "right"...but I'm not attempting to DEFINE that, or DEBATE it, on this thread. What I'm trying to avoid is discussing that "right and wrong", and focus on seeing what reasons people are posting here. The right/wrong/moral discussion NEEDS to take place...but please do so on a seperate thread to keep from distracting from THIS discussion. If you want to discuss about right/wrong moral...start your own thread. I'll gladly post and discuss there. Thanks. And MY attempt to answer the question also talked about what's "right" but did not attempt to define that or debate it. In fact, that was my WHOLE POINT - it's not our call to define it or debate it. And yet, it's OK for you to respond that way, but (according to you) it's not OK for me to do the same thing. Oh, I am most definitely "taking note." And this is where I think a lot of the friction starts. Regardless of our intentions, we cannot really know - nor is it our place to determine - what is the "right" choice for someone else. We are each going thru our own life experiences... and learning different lessons. What is "right" for the poster may be totally different from our own definition of what is right. This may be what Tony referred to when he asked that people refrain from lecturing morality.
RoseRen Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Kind of a general question to all the OW/OM out there... What exactly are you looking for when you post here? Very very thought provoking question Owl (your nick suits you ) I think I post here mainly for 3 reaons: a) To get suggestions from different people of different genders, different countries, different religions beliefs, different experiences etc etc. It helps me get a lot of different perspectives. I am not looking for objective recommendations, as no one else can make decisions for me, and I need to be responsible for my life - but definitely it's their advices and experiences that unfolds the various courses I can take to move on in in life. b) To get clarity of mind by using the forum as a sounding board. Usually, this is just to keep my "well wishers" updated and also to dump my mind so that I can sort through them, if required, at a later stage. c) To have someone to comfort me and give me a Hug or two once in a while and to tell me things will be OK. (Need to specially thank OWoman and WhiteFlower and NoraJane and SB for this.)
scaredinlove Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Kind of a general question to all the OW/OM out there... What exactly are you looking for when you post here? First time i was just looking for sharing my situation with someone cause there was no one to talk too. What is "support"? Is to have someone to listen and understand without judging you. They may not agree with you but the should not judge your put you down Are you looking for advice/support in continuing your affair with MM/MW? Looking for support to understand my position better and having insight in other point of views. Are you looking for advice/support in ending your affair? There was a time that I was and I came here to ask for help and I tried to end but I didn't. Are you looking for objective recommendations on which of these choices you should make? Not really, I guess I wanted to here different opinions and make balance them and make my own choice based on others people insights and my feelings Are you looking for advice from others who have been involved in an affair in some fashion? Sure it is always good to know that other people are going through the same as you. You don't feel alone that way. Bottom line...was is it...exactly...that you're hoping to find by posting? What do you hope to gain from your time spent here? First i was hoping for insight, later help now i am basically want to help other OW or anybody who needs someone to listen and someone to give them insights.
Gwyneth Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 It's great and also funny that so many are saying the same thing, which is: we are here for being understood without judgment and / or put downs, yet--there is So much of that going on here! Maybe some of you should take the advice and pay close attention to it. This board would be a much friendlier and healthier place without so much harsh judgement and so many put downs. I'm happy to see I am not the only one who is here to tell my story and not want to be wrongly and / or harshly judged OR put down. Thank you
JMC Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 Wanted to answer the question formally... What exactly are you looking for when you post here? Insights into what other OW's are experiencing, being involved with a MM. Wondering if my feelings are normal. What is "support"? Respectful listening, discussion, observations, anecdotes. Are you looking for advice/support in continuing your affair with MM/MW? Yes, ideally - but frankly, I'm too afraid to post further about my own situation because of "attitudes", attacks, lectures, and plain meanness from some BS's. And that just isn't fair or right - I am an OW, and this is supposed to be M Y forum. If I can't post here without being kicked when I'm down, where the heck else am I supposed to?!!! Places to discuss EMA are hard to find. They've got two forums: here and "Infidelity". I've only got one. And I'd like to be able to use it without being traumatized. Are you looking for advice/support in ending your affair? No Are you looking for objective recommendations on which of these choices you should make? Maybe - but only if it is objective. Are you looking for advice from others who have been involved in an affair in some fashion? Sometimes. Bottom line...was is it...exactly...that you're hoping to find by posting? What do you hope to gain from your time spent here? Well at first, it was some peace of mind because of the massive, utter confusion I was going thru since I've never been in this situation (EMA) before. Now, since I'm regularly finding that a lot of info here isn't necessarily applying to me, or helping me, I just enjoy visiting for the general info I read about, and for some of the regulars here.
indianlover Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 What exactly are you looking for when you post here? For me its therapeutic to say what I feel about being the OW and being cheated on (I've been in both situations) without worrying about what my friends think of my judgements. What is "support"? For me, as a new member, I seek the wisdom of wiser people. Are you looking for advice/support in continuing your affair with MM/MW? My situation is complicated - we decided against starting an A while we were working together, but now we aren't and the temptation is still there Are you looking for advice/support in ending your affair? Are you looking for objective recommendations on which of these choices you should make? Frankly, I know I'm going to give into temptation, so I guess I'm trying to be a part of this community so when things go sour I have 'friends' to turn to. Are you looking for advice from others who have been involved in an affair in some fashion? Yes Bottom line...was is it...exactly...that you're hoping to find by posting? What do you hope to gain from your time spent here? Ideally, I would love to avoid heartache by avoiding others mistakes. Have fun with MM and walk away being able to say 'I love you' but I gotta move on. However, many people's stories show me that the heartbreak can be out of your control - crapshoot I guess. So that probably means I'm a gambler...
CallMeCrazy Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 I was just so happy to find this site and realize that there are other people out there who've been in or are in my situation. It helps to know you're not the only one....I had been doing searches online trying to find books, or anything really that I could read to have a better understanding of what I had gotten myself into. As an OW or OP (other person) we just don't have many "sounding boards" out there. I missed having the advice of my friends and family for this R ~ so LS is the next best thing. I believe we all need advice in life, because the experiences and life lessons of other people can help us with the decisions and events we are dealing with today. I'm really greatful that this forum exists... It's helped me so much. Support to me, has been listening to all the advice and viewpoints from reading the threads/responses. I am hoping that the support provided here will ultimately assist me in making the best decisions for me and whether or not I chose to end the A; which is something I have not yet decided! This is an extremely emotional thing to be going through... sometimes just coming here and reading makes everything feel better. (Cheesy, I know:))
frannie Posted December 5, 2007 Posted December 5, 2007 What exactly are you looking for when you post here? Well I've been here quite a while now, and the reasons why I initially came are no longer really valid most of the time. When I first came to LS it was because I'd been seeing a MM for some time, and while he claimed he 'was leaving' or ready to leave, he seemed to be dragging his feet. I ended up looking online for forums, articles, or people in similar situations so I could see... what usually happens in these cases? Was what I was experiencing common? How did other affairs work out? Basically I was looking for information and insight that I could apply to my own situation. Now when I come to LS I'm not really looking for any input as such. I've spent years now (*groan*) reading about affairs from all angles, on forums looking at all sides, so there's not a lot I haven't seen or heard about. I spend most of my time on here reading about others in similar situations, and hopefully offering insight and information what would help them make the right choices for them, whatever they choose. What is "support"? I think 'support' is offering people insight and information in order that the person can understand their situation and make the right choice for themselves. Additionally that once they've made their choice, to help them in any way to carry out that decision, whether or not you personally would make that choice. Are you looking for advice/support in continuing your affair with MM/MW? Are you looking for advice/support in ending your affair? I'm not terribly good with taking advice, and I don't honestly think many people are. So I would say I was looking for support, as defined above. And I would expect to have that support whatever my choice, and not to have people ramming down my throat that I was making the 'wrong choice' (in their eyes). Are you looking for objective recommendations on which of these choices you should make? No. I can make decisions for myself. However, I think I've always accepted other people's recommendations for action based on my own choices. For example, I have tried NC before on the recommendation of people on here when I first came. Are you looking for advice from others who have been involved in an affair in some fashion? I think people with all kinds of experience can offer support to people in all sorts of situations. However, it takes either someone who's been there, or a special kind of person who can leave their own opinion and moral judgement at the door to be able to offer help to someone in a difficult situation like an affair. I think that unless someone can do that, then they're really not going to be able to offer support. And let's remember that the description for this forum is not about 'advice', but support and discussion, which are completely different things. Bottom line...was is it...exactly...that you're hoping to find by posting? What do you hope to gain from your time spent here? I'm not sure about what I hope to find, or gain, since I think I've gone past that point for the most part, although it is often possible to get new insight even when you think you've 'seen it all'! The reason I still come to the forum is to continue to share updates on my situation, in the hope of showing other people what happens in affairs and how they pan out. In other words, to provide for others what I was looking for when I first came. I also like to give support to people in the form of helping them look at their own situation with clarity, or helping them ask themselves the difficult questions. What they do with that insight or information, I really don't mind. I just like to help people to make the best decisions they can for themselves. And to me, that means being comfortable with themselves, whatever their life choices.
Author Owl Posted December 5, 2007 Author Posted December 5, 2007 Some interesting things to think about here. Thanks for all the responses.
Gwyneth Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Owl, are you the OW or OM? I'm currently biting my tongue over a "very nice person" who called All OW the second best who will Always be someone's dirty little secret. UGHHH, it's things like that which makes me Very angry around here! Originally Posted by foreverchanged Your question says alot about you, you are a typical OW. Selfish, self serving, and lacking in character/morals, you will never have a healthy relationship, you will always be second best, someones' dirty little secret. Now that I reread this, I laughed because this person Really has no clue, do they? Why does this person feel the need to come to the OW / OM board and say such horrible, judgemental things? We are human beings too, you know. That's just not fair at all to make such harsh and unaceptable judgements.
writeon Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Owl, are you the OW or OM? I'm currently biting my tongue over a "very nice person" who called All OW the second best who will Always be someone's dirty little secret. UGHHH, it's things like that which makes me Very angry around here! But why is saying you are second best and a little secret judgmental? Yes it may sound harsh but to me it also sounds like the truth, no matter which way you look at it. You are second best, because his wife is first best. (He is married to her and goes home to her and puts his marriage ahead of whatever it is he has with you, etc. In fact I might argue you are third best because obviously his own needs come first [wanting to stay married but also have some sort of close relationship with another woman], then his wife's needs [not rocking the boat/ hurt her... or else he would obviously just man up and tell her "I'm sorry darling but I have been pursuing a relationship with another woman and I would like to continue to do so"] and then your needs [which, whatever they are, can't really be being met by a married man, can they be? If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I don't see what it is you get out of this relationship except drama and confusion and occasionally excitement] ' It's also objectively true that you are his "dirty little secret" and by that I don't think the poster meant you're dirty, but the secret is dirty because if his wife found out about you, he would be in a lot of trouble, therefore it's a secret he wants to be kept a secret. Try saying "let's tell people, including your wife, about this great relationship we're enjoying," and see what he says... that will show you if he considers you his "dirty little secret" or not. Regardless this is not on topic and I'm not sure why you posted it here, except to give an example of what you don't consider to be support? So to tie it in with the OP's original question, I would say that maybe "supporting" someone can be trying to get them to see reality from an outsider's perspective. A man having a secret relationship he wants to hide from his wife, and having a fling "on the side" that isn't enough to make him get divorced and put OW's needs ahead of his own and his marriage... I don't get that, why is that judgmental? I think it can be a method of support. If I heard that, I would think, "Wow, maybe that is the situation, thanks for pointing it out." Or I would say "I respectfully disagree with you but thank you for your advice." I would appreciate the support of someone who told me what's what... like, oh yeah, my eyes are open now, he's keeping me a secret and I don't want to be a secret. Or I would say, I'm okay with being a secret because that's how it has to be and that's what I want. But I wouldn't say the person is being judgmental just by saying I'm a married man's secret... I think that is just stating the obvious, is it not? Anyway just my two cents.
Gwyneth Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 It's an example of what I do not find supportive, and sums up what us OW are Not looking for around here. I don't care to analyze what that poster said--it seems Very apparent just right there. It's mean and doesn't deserve to be justified, and I know you, writeon, are only trying to make things nice, but this just happens to be a Really PERCFECT! example of what us OW and even the OM do not want to read.
NoIDidn't Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 This is going off-topic and leading into murky waters. Gwenyth, let it go. This isn't the thread for it.
Gwyneth Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Why? It's exactly what I said in my original post. Wow...some of you Just don't want to hear it, and Okay fine, but that is a great example. It's words like that which upset the OW around here and I happened to come across one tonight that was posted I think today--so there you go. I'm not off-topic--I am Clearly showing an example of what I do not find supportive.
whichwayisup Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Gwen, if you can still read what I post, Owl is not an OW or an OM, he is a betrayed spouse, as his wife had an EA.
Gwyneth Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Gwen, if you can still read what I post, Owl is not an OW or an OM, he is a betrayed spouse, as his wife had an EA. Ahh, okay...thank you I was just wondering, because I forget all the time every one's situation. I still find it very comforting that he is reaching out and asking us OW these questions. Rock on!
NoIDidn't Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Why? It's exactly what I said in my original post. Wow...some of you Just don't want to hear it, and Okay fine, but that is a great example. It's words like that which upset the OW around here and I happened to come across one tonight that was posted I think today--so there you go. I'm not off-topic--I am Clearly showing an example of what I do not find supportive. It isn't that I have a problem with what you are asking at all. Its just that the OP and a MOD have requested that this post ANSWER THE QUESTIONS listed and not go off-topic. Your posts are intended to go off-topic. You should start a thread about what you consider is not support and not hi-jack his thread.
Gwyneth Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 It isn't that I have a problem with what you are asking at all. Its just that the OP and a MOD have requested that this post ANSWER THE QUESTIONS listed and not go off-topic. Your posts are intended to go off-topic. You should start a thread about what you consider is not support and not hi-jack his thread. What are you talking about? I don't see how that is off-topic when many of the OW in this thread stated what is considered unsupportive. Why are you trying to start trouble? Drop it--it's said and done, so let's just drop it OKay? okay
Gwyneth Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 So simple..... Listening, acknowledgements, validations, observations, viewpoints, anecdotes, discussion W I T H O U T judging, hostility, disrespect, "shoulds", blatant accusations, glaring assumptions, projecting personal situation rage and anger on us, unfairly comparing us to who your H might have cheated on you with, lumping us all in as one big group of immature, evil, sleazy, husband-chasin' harlots...come on! We're not kids. Being in an EMA was not our grand "dream" in life. It's not our ideal situation. But some of us are in them. I took JMC's quote and will again to prove that what I posted today is just a continuation of what has already been said--which is not off-topic. It is just how the OW feel on this board. They including me! want viewpoints without judging and disrespect most of all. I'm sorry if I'm confusing you, but this is where it fits in.
IWALH Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Before http://www.gloryb.com/, there was not a website that was supportive of the dissillusioned and demented person they call the "other woman." Back when I was first an "OW" in 2005, there was only loveshack (when searching through google). So I came here to get insight and find out what other people. were going through. That, inevitably, led to the demise of MM and I's relationship. I believed everything everyone said on here and therefore sabotaged anything that could have happpend between the two of us... because I believed he was just some old schmuck looking to get his rocks off. Whether or not that is actually true........ I wiill never jknow... Therefore, once again, it's over and, I Have seen the light. So to speak.......
GreenEyedLady Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Bottom line...was is it...exactly...that you're hoping to find by posting? What do you hope to gain from your time spent here? Understanding... Camraderie... Friendship... And the wonderful thing is, I've found that here in my wonderful friends...They have been supportive, understanding and encouraging; without judgment or condemnation...And they know who they are... I pretty much ignore the barbs and take what I think applies... My story is winding up to a new beginning, and I'm here to help others find their way...either with their partner or without... GEL
IWALH Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Before http://www.gloryb.com/, there was not a website that was supportive of the dissillusioned and demented person they call the "other woman." Back when I was first an "OW" in 2005, there was only loveshack (when searching through google). So I came here to get insight and find out what other people. were going through. That, inevitably, led to the demise of MM and I's relationship. I believed everything everyone said on here and therefore sabotaged anything that could have happpend between the two of us... because I believed he was just some old schmuck looking to get his rocks off. Whether or not that is actually true........ I wiill never jknow... Therefore, once again, it's over and, I Have seen the light. So to speak....... Just wanted to say sorry for the grammatical and spelling errors. I had 2 glasses of wine last night after not drinking alcohol for half a year. And I don't think that I sabotaged anything that could have happened between XMM and myself. Nobody sabotaged anything because there wasn't anything since it was all a big facade for him.
JMC Posted December 6, 2007 Posted December 6, 2007 Before http://www.gloryb.com/, there was not a website that was supportive of the dissillusioned and demented person they call the "other woman." Back when I was first an "OW" in 2005, there was only loveshack (when searching through google). So I came here to get insight and find out what other people. were going through. That, inevitably, led to the demise of MM and I's relationship. I believed everything everyone said on here and therefore sabotaged anything that could have happpend between the two of us... because I believed he was just some old schmuck looking to get his rocks off. Whether or not that is actually true........ I wiill never jknow... Therefore, once again, it's over and, I Have seen the light. So to speak....... T H I S post blows me away.....girl you know how to write and leave people really intrigued and wondering...I sure am right now. There are far many sides, outcomes, possibilities, facets to this whole issue than I ever realized. That's why I like this board.
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