I am fed up with being a nice guy

[GuidanceDMS]

We do finish last. The world just isn't right...and neither are girls.

 

So I am actively looking for girls that I am interested in (interested in them as a person as well as physical attraction..unlike most guys). Actively looking for someone to date and maybe end up in a relationship with.

 

So I was getting up the courage (shy) to ask out a girl at work, because I wasn't sure at the time if she had a boyfriend. But then everything fell into place (or so I thought) after I called her to see if she was ok one night because I heard at work that she fell and hurt her neck. She seemed really happy that I was concerned and was flirting with me...and then later that night she called and just straight asked me if I liked her as more than a friend and I said yes I would...but that she had a boyfriend. Then she said she didn't and that we should go out sometime outside of work to get to know eachother better....so I assumed that with her calling me and asking me how much I liked her and then saying that we should get together outside of work that she was also into me, at least a little bit.

 

So skip a couple weeks ahead and I had asked her out to dinner and she accepted. It didn't happen and her reason was that she lost her phone at her friends and they didn't find it until late the next day and it was too late to still go out. Thing is....she didn't even call me when she got her phone back even though I had called 3 times and left V-Mail wondering what was going on and if she could still make dinner.

 

Then we hung out at her place and just talked a lot and then enjoyed a movie while laying on a bed and eating popcorn and basically just having a good time.

 

Then I asked her out to the movies and she accepted. So fast forword to that day and at work I find out that she can't make the movies that night because she had to watch her cousins because her aunt was in the hospital. I was fine with that, and she asked me about the next day and I said I would be off work in time to catch a movie with her and she was ok with that, so I assumed that she just wanted to move the movie date to the next day because she asked about my availability.

 

Skip to the next day and I end up going to her house and she isn't home....so I am confused (left a V-Mail when I left to go to pick her up and assumed she just wasn't at her phone and would get it and either call or not call and know I was on my way.) So I try and call her again and I can't get a hold of her so I leave a V-Mail wondering what was up and to just call me...that is all I wanted, a call. I wasn't sure if she just flaked on me or not.

 

So the next night she calls me and says that she didn't think that we had "official" plans for the movies and was sorry. So I was like, if we had official plans for Friday and then she basically asked me if I was good for Saturday because of her having to watch her cousins...why would the plans have changed at all? We had official plans for Friday. I asked why she just didn't call me and she kinda didn't answer and I told her I was not mad at her for the movies, just confused. I was only mad because she didn't even give me a call after I left her voice mails wondering what was up and told her to just give me a call. A call is all I needed...and she couldn't even do that.

 

Then today, she calls and leaves a voice mail ( I was working ) and says that she just doesn't want to date anyone right now and that she likes me as a friend, but nothing else. She apologized a couple times for the movies.

 

Here is what I don't get! Why would a girl first of all, call me and ask me if I like her as more than a friend and then say that we should get together outside of work....

 

...and then when I go ahead and ask her out a couple times, she ends up not being able to make either one besides just hanging out at home with me. I don't really know if she did lose her phone when we had dinner plans or if it was just an excuse...but I do know her reason for the movies was legit and then she asked about Saturday (the next day) for the movies and I said I was good and then she ends up not being available because she didn't think our official plans from Friday had changed to "maybe" plans for Saturday.

 

Why would she accept all my offers for dates if she didn't want to date anyone???? It would hurt less if she had just declined the dates and said that we should just hang out as friends because she wasn't looking to date at the moment. It hurts more when I think the dates are going to happen and then they both end up not happening.

 

This is what turns nice guys like me into jerks.

[Dynamo]

Oh man, I know exactly how you are feeling. Exactly.

I don't know if it'd be any help to you, but you can read my thread here ( http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137765 ), the members of LS have made some fantastic advice in there. Maybe it'll help you out too.

 

Thats all I really have to say, sorry man. Just stay strong, things will get better. Don't let life get you down.

[Pedigree]

I can't pinpoint anything that you did in that situation that would constitute you being too nice. I'd say it's the girl's fault.

[EYECANDY000]

In my opiion, it does sound like she is a little unstable and confused about what she wants. Since you guys work together I would tell her everything is cool and that you guys should just remain friends. The last thing you need is tension at work. But her excuse for the lost phone does seem like a crock of bull. Dont give up!! you will eventually find a nice girl who you have a lot on common with. Try not to force things because if you meet someone and they are not your type and you force the relationship, then guess whats going to happen when you finally do meet someone who you have a lot on common with.. Your going to have to break her heart and move on to someone you are compatible with.

 

Stay away from work relationships!!!!!

[neowulf]

We do finish last. The world just isn't right...and neither are girls.

 

So I am actively looking for girls that I am interested in (interested in them as a person as well as physical attraction..unlike most guys). Actively looking for someone to date and maybe end up in a relationship with.

 

So I was getting up the courage (shy) to ask out a girl at work, because I wasn't sure at the time if she had a boyfriend. But then everything fell into place (or so I thought) after I called her to see if she was ok one night because I heard at work that she fell and hurt her neck. She seemed really happy that I was concerned and was flirting with me...and then later that night she called and just straight asked me if I liked her as more than a friend and I said yes I would...but that she had a boyfriend. Then she said she didn't and that we should go out sometime outside of work to get to know eachother better....so I assumed that with her calling me and asking me how much I liked her and then saying that we should get together outside of work that she was also into me, at least a little bit.

 

So skip a couple weeks ahead and I had asked her out to dinner and she accepted. It didn't happen and her reason was that she lost her phone at her friends and they didn't find it until late the next day and it was too late to still go out. Thing is....she didn't even call me when she got her phone back even though I had called 3 times and left V-Mail wondering what was going on and if she could still make dinner.

 

Then we hung out at her place and just talked a lot and then enjoyed a movie while laying on a bed and eating popcorn and basically just having a good time.

 

Then I asked her out to the movies and she accepted. So fast forword to that day and at work I find out that she can't make the movies that night because she had to watch her cousins because her aunt was in the hospital. I was fine with that, and she asked me about the next day and I said I would be off work in time to catch a movie with her and she was ok with that, so I assumed that she just wanted to move the movie date to the next day because she asked about my availability.

 

Skip to the next day and I end up going to her house and she isn't home....so I am confused (left a V-Mail when I left to go to pick her up and assumed she just wasn't at her phone and would get it and either call or not call and know I was on my way.) So I try and call her again and I can't get a hold of her so I leave a V-Mail wondering what was up and to just call me...that is all I wanted, a call. I wasn't sure if she just flaked on me or not.

 

So the next night she calls me and says that she didn't think that we had "official" plans for the movies and was sorry. So I was like, if we had official plans for Friday and then she basically asked me if I was good for Saturday because of her having to watch her cousins...why would the plans have changed at all? We had official plans for Friday. I asked why she just didn't call me and she kinda didn't answer and I told her I was not mad at her for the movies, just confused. I was only mad because she didn't even give me a call after I left her voice mails wondering what was up and told her to just give me a call. A call is all I needed...and she couldn't even do that.

 

Then today, she calls and leaves a voice mail ( I was working ) and says that she just doesn't want to date anyone right now and that she likes me as a friend, but nothing else. She apologized a couple times for the movies.

 

Here is what I don't get! Why would a girl first of all, call me and ask me if I like her as more than a friend and then say that we should get together outside of work....

 

...and then when I go ahead and ask her out a couple times, she ends up not being able to make either one besides just hanging out at home with me. I don't really know if she did lose her phone when we had dinner plans or if it was just an excuse...but I do know her reason for the movies was legit and then she asked about Saturday (the next day) for the movies and I said I was good and then she ends up not being available because she didn't think our official plans from Friday had changed to "maybe" plans for Saturday.

 

Why would she accept all my offers for dates if she didn't want to date anyone???? It would hurt less if she had just declined the dates and said that we should just hang out as friends because she wasn't looking to date at the moment. It hurts more when I think the dates are going to happen and then they both end up not happening.

 

This is what turns nice guys like me into jerks.

 

Sorry to tell you this man, but at the end of the day, she just wasn't that into you. There's not really a hell of a lot you can do about that. Consider this though, a woman will *always* appreciate a man who knows who he is and what he's about. A man who says "You know what, you seem nice enough, but if you don't suit me, then I'm perfectly fine with walking away". The more emotionally invested you appear up front the "easier" you appear to a woman. "Concern" can very quickly turn into "clingy" in her eyes. The single best approach I've seen succeed time and time again is the "take it or leave it" approach. It's an attitude that says "You seem nice enough, but I'm not going to worship you. You're not all that. I'm going to treat you with respect, but I have my own life and ideas on things, so don't expect me to put myself out for a woman I barely know". That's the attitude I've seen succeed move often than anything else. Unfortunely, I've found it *extrememly* difficult to act that way about a woman I'm *really* into. So really, it becomes an exercise in self-control and self-respect. Wish you all the best mate.

[oppath]

Dude, you were not too nice. I would have handled things a bit different, and I think you errored by not texting earlier in the day "we're still on for 7, right?" and things like that which improve communication.

 

But you didn't do anything extremely wrong, except maybe waiting a couple weeks to first take her out.

 

She was flakey with you, but lots of men and women are. As you continue to date, you will encounter lots of flakes, and you know what, if you've been dating a lot, you are going to flake too. Don't say you won't, we all do. We all fail to call when we say we would or not ask the girl on a second date when we mentioned "let's do it again." We all do it because there are times you just aren't all that interested or **** is going on. What is important is to try not to do it. And the more you date, things like this won't phase you. I expect it to happen after 2-3 dates, the woman just flaking or bailing and "too busy to date right now."

 

I've learned, after dating, to spot these women, but more importantly, to spot that I am not all that interested in them and to let them know before they flake.

[Sand&Water]

RE:

 

This is not about "Nice Guys Finish Last" school of thought, GuidanceDMS.

 

This is about: "Attention" and "The Chase".

 

There is more to dating than "Chivalry". Often times it is "Power Play" and "Ego Strokes for Status".

 

What did she want? Why did she do this to you?

 

Simple: She wanted attention by a male outsider. She wanted to be chased around the bush by a guy, whom obviously had weak traits including notch below confidence.

 

And, that's what she got. Score. She hit jackpot. Now, she is moving onto someone else.

 

She used the "I'm Not Ready to Date" as to mask her inner feelings, to protect herself from ever having to commit.

 

Sand&Water

[spookie]

This ins't about you being too nice, it's not about you at all! It's about her not being able to communicate her confusion regarding what she wants better.

 

This kind of thing happens to everyone at least on some level on a regular basis. Not everyone you are going to meet is going to end up right for you, and until you meet the right person at the right time you'll flake, be flaked on, act confused; serve as the target of someone else's confusion; and so on. You better get started on learning how to let these things go, how not to attach too quickly any emotional relevence to people you don't know, who don't know you. Cause otherwise, you'll drive yourself insane.

[GuidanceDMS]

Oh man, I know exactly how you are feeling. Exactly.

I don't know if it'd be any help to you, but you can read my thread here ( http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137765 ), the members of LS have made some fantastic advice in there. Maybe it'll help you out too.

 

Thats all I really have to say, sorry man. Just stay strong, things will get better. Don't let life get you down.

 

Thanks Dynamo. We are in the same boat...and we need to not let this crap happen to us again. I am going to try my best to forget all of the good feelings I had for her beyond a friend and just be a friend to her. Its just like she sent mixed signals and then I felt so good when it came time to enjoy a nice date with her and then both times I get let down and not even a call....2 very bad nights for me indeed.

[GuidanceDMS]

Dude, you were not too nice. I would have handled things a bit different, and I think you errored by not texting earlier in the day "we're still on for 7, right?" and things like that which improve communication.

 

But you didn't do anything extremely wrong, except maybe waiting a couple weeks to first take her out.

 

She was flakey with you, but lots of men and women are. As you continue to date, you will encounter lots of flakes, and you know what, if you've been dating a lot, you are going to flake too. Don't say you won't, we all do. We all fail to call when we say we would or not ask the girl on a second date when we mentioned "let's do it again." We all do it because there are times you just aren't all that interested or **** is going on. What is important is to try not to do it. And the more you date, things like this won't phase you. I expect it to happen after 2-3 dates, the woman just flaking or bailing and "too busy to date right now."

 

I've learned, after dating, to spot these women, but more importantly, to spot that I am not all that interested in them and to let them know before they flake.

 

Ok she doesn't have texting, I do. But on the Saturday the new day for the movies, I called her on my lunch break and straight said to her that I would be over around 6:40 to pick her up....now if that doesn't send a message to her that I was still thinking that the official plans were just moved from Friday to Saturday...then I don't know what would. She just said to call before I left...which I did (& got the voice mail)

 

Thanks for the reply

[Numerouno]

01 - Don't waste your time thinking about what she did etc. She's a female goddammit! You'll just be driving yourself nuts.

 

02 - Thank your lucky stars that nothing serious developed (no piece of pie is worth (potential) sexual harassment claims against you, or, loss of job.)

 

WOMEN AT WORK = NO GO AREA !!!

 

03 - Google "dating women advice" (or something similar) and realize that there are more effective ways to attract women that don't require you metamorphisizing into a jerk.

[GuidanceDMS]

01 - Don't waste your time thinking about what she did etc. She's a female goddammit! You'll just be driving yourself nuts.

 

02 - Thank your lucky stars that nothing serious developed (no piece of pie is worth (potential) sexual harassment claims against you, or, loss of job.)

 

WOMEN AT WORK = NO GO AREA !!!

 

03 - Google "dating women advice" (or something similar) and realize that there are more effective ways to attract women that don't require you metamorphisizing into a jerk.

 

I will look into #3 .

 

But I don't care about the work thing, this is just my job that I have kept while going to college and I will be done with it once I land my first job after Graduating, which is right around the corner (Dec. 15th).

[GuidanceDMS]

I've thought about this some more ( I can't STOP ) and I am going to tell her that being friends is fine, but I am going to avoid hanging out with her outside of work just "as friends" because I want to send a clear message that I am still interested and I won't settle for being another one of her guy friends (she has a good # of them). Maybe she will see the light of day....probably not. Time to turn up the firt-o-meter and compliments and poking small jokes at her (like her socks that have kittens on them) and I'm going to do it whether she told me she just likes me as a friend or not. I'm not going to end up in the friend zone.

[lino]

I won't settle for being another one of her guy friends (she has a good # of them).

 

With a girl like this I don't think it's worth the effort to chase her as a possible girlfriend. IMO you should flirt with her & such but not to the point where she thinks you wanna be her boyfriend, just enough to be another guy friend & you might get something out of it

[Numerouno]

Time to turn up the firt-o-meter...

Nah, screw that. Use the fart-o-meter, it's much more effective.

[tomwiz]

I consider myself to be a genuinine nice guy, help anybody when I can, treat people well, don't play games. However, I hate the label "nice guy" because i often think that it conveys a aura of ineptitude and a "doormatability", I refuse to be one of those. Just realize that you are a "catch" and if a women doesn't want to be with you, her loss. But nice guys don't finish last, nice guys who lack the conviction to chase a woman...they like to have there ego stroked as previously stated.

[Woggle]

The key is to develop the ability to be a nice guy or a complete ******* depending on the situation.

[OpenBook]

I consider myself to be a genuinine nice guy, help anybody when I can, treat people well, don't play games. However, I hate the label "nice guy" because i often think that it conveys a aura of ineptitude and a "doormatability", I refuse to be one of those. Just realize that you are a "catch" and if a women doesn't want to be with you, her loss. But nice guys don't finish last, nice guys who lack the conviction to chase a woman...they like to have there ego stroked as previously stated.

 

Nice guys should NEVER be doormats. I see some of them being that way (because they're nice guys, and they don't want to hurt anyone - regardless of how badly others have treated them) and I hate it. Nice guys are treasures, too often undervalued... and I believe they sometimes undervalue THEMSELVES as well.

 

The ultimate SMOKIN' HOT Nice Guy example, for me, is a guy that was portrayed in a headache aspirin commercial a couple years back... He is on a dinner date with his GF, and she tells him she is seeing someone else... and it's his brother. So he takes out the aspirin, and she starts apologizing for causing him such pain, and he says, "They're not for me, they're for YOU. I know my brother." Just rocks her world. THAT's flipping the script while staying nice!!

[LiveKhaos]

I think I have a good feel of what your going through... This girl isn't ready to commit, there's actually a possibility that she liked you at one point or actually still does, however because she's afraid of commitment then as much as she may like you she won't move forward.

 

I would personally (as I have in the past) move on... Stay friends or whatever but don't even think about liking her or dating her anymore, cuz your gonna end up getting hurt... You might feel like you were rejected, truth is nobody likes to feel that way...but it isn't the end, get out there and meet new people see what happens from there... Don't dwell on it too much either...

[GuidanceDMS]

I think I have a good feel of what your going through... This girl isn't ready to commit, there's actually a possibility that she liked you at one point or actually still does, however because she's afraid of commitment then as much as she may like you she won't move forward.

 

I would personally (as I have in the past) move on... Stay friends or whatever but don't even think about liking her or dating her anymore, cuz your gonna end up getting hurt... You might feel like you were rejected, truth is nobody likes to feel that way...but it isn't the end, get out there and meet new people see what happens from there... Don't dwell on it too much either...

 

I want to do just that! But I just can't...

 

I can't start pretending to not like her, because I do. I am gonna stay away from asking her out to do anything...because she said she doesn't want to date anyone right now and that she just likes me as a friend, even if it isn't entirely true. But I am not going to stop doing the things I have been doing that should tell her how special I think she is.

[LiveKhaos]

I want to do just that! But I just can't...

 

I can't start pretending to not like her, because I do. I am gonna stay away from asking her out to do anything...because she said she doesn't want to date anyone right now and that she just likes me as a friend, even if it isn't entirely true. But I am not going to stop doing the things I have been doing that should tell her how special I think she is.

 

Yeah trust me I completely understand you... I meant stay friends as in don't become her enemy, but by no means is it going to be easy to work with her and pretend like nothing happened. Listen, give her some space and don't call her or anything. Seems like she's sort of confused as well. If you really like this girl and there's nothing at this moment that could turn you away from her, then give her that space and after about Id say almost 2 weeks or so slowly start working your way back into her life... And then see how she still feels about everything. You can't suffocate her cuz that will turn her away even more. As hard as it may be and believe me I know how hard it can be, you have have to give her space and let her be for a while...

[jcster]

I think she just wanted a booty call, and when you didn't hit on her during the movie, she moved on. There are jerk women out there, too. Don't take it too personally.