Close Friends with Ex but He Won't Let Me Meet Her

[brneyedgrl333]

I'm posting this in cheating/jealousy as well because I'm not sure where it belongs.

 

My boyfriend and I have been dating for 17 months. I love this man dearly but we have had our share of problems. When we are together, things are wonderful...we enjoy each other's company, we laugh, we love, we live. It's when we are not together that the problems arise. He was married for 14 years (as was I) and we both have 2 children each from our marriages. I have a very surface relationship with my ex and we only speak when necessary about the children. My boyfriend's situation is different. He has a very close, very connected relationship with his ex. They speak on a daily basis and see each other several times a week. I guess I could accept this more openly if he would let me meet the ex. That's right, I have never even laid eyes on her. She is still in love with him and has told him that she believes they are meant to be and WILL be back together eventually. She is the one that left him and the marriage in the first place! She was a manipulator and said some very harsh things to him that he still talks about to this day. She had no desire to get back together with him until he and I started dating. Then she started laying it on heavy. When my boyfriend told her that he did not want to get back together with her and wanted to make things work with me, she resorted to some desperate tactics. She left her job in the middle of the day, left notes for the kids and for my boyfriend and got on a bus. Of course, she let my boyfriend know that she was leaving, hoping that he would run after her. My boyfriend never shared with me the contents of the letters - just said that they were sad. She eventually came back and confessed that she was leaving town so she could go kill herself but she just couldn't do it. I have had two separate occasions where "someone" has let me know that they had spent time together and had sex or that they were seen together in public all over each other. (My boyfriend swears that it wasn't true.) My suspicions are that it is her finding a way to try to break us up but my boyfriend refuses to believe that she is capable of such things. She told him from the beginning that it would be uncomfortable for her to see me with him so he has made every effort to keep me away from her. He assures me that the friendship is purely platonic. That he has no intentions of ever going back to her and that I just need to trust him. He cheated on me with her in the beginning of our relationship but promises that it has not happened since. He won't talk on his cell phone with her when I am around. He tried it once and she hung up on him because he was "being different" than he normally is with her and she could tell that I was there with him. He has been attending codependents annonymous. Anyone who knows anything about codependents, knows that they have this irrational need to please everyone. I know this has a lot to do with it but he tells me that he WANTS to be her friend. That he's known her for 20 years and he doesn't want to give up her friendship. He can't give me a good reason why he doesn't include me in that friendship. I have asked on many occasions to please just let me into that part of his life. But to this day, it hasn't happened. He wants me to just trust him. I have tried very hard, so very hard to do just that. It isn't working and I'm really scared now. I want so much for him to be the one. We are so incredible on so many levels. My heart is completely full of love for him. If it was just a healthy friendship between the two of them like he says it is, I would be involved. Right? She seems to have him wrapped around her little finger and knows that. She pretends to be supportive of his decision to be with me but then controls the situation by making sure he knows that she doesn't want to meet me. I need some good advice. Especially from anyone who has had a similar situation. Is there anyone who has gone through this and was able to make it work in the long run? Please respond.

[bluepoppy]

He assures me that the friendship is purely platonic. That he has no intentions of ever going back to her and that I just need to trust him. He cheated on me with her in the beginning of our relationship but promises that it has not happened since. He won't talk on his cell phone with her when I am around. He tried it once and she hung up on him because he was "being different" than he normally is with her and she could tell that I was there with him. He has been attending codependents annonymous. Anyone who knows anything about codependents, knows that they have this irrational need to please everyone. .

 

Wow - I've chopped and changed to focus on just this one point.

 

He's been with you for 17 months and he's slow to introduce to people in his life. He might be protecting you from her, or what he perceives would be a difficult situation. The fact she hung up for 'being different shows this. Cheating on you at the beginning makes it hard to trust, he has to earn it somehow, have you figured out what that would take.

 

The plus side is he is attending codependents annonymous - so he's aware of issues and wants to solve them - have you thought of going ? (not with him, separately) It's just often we attract like for like, so you may have similar issues. you can't fix him, you can only fix you.

[muse27]

im sorry, but i dont want to sugarcoat anything, but this seems like such an unhealthy relationship and situation. at first when i read your post i already had my doubts about you trusting him, but i was still open-minded to his situation..after reading that he has already cheated on you once, i just wanted to throw my hands up and tell you to get out of this relationship fast.

 

i understand this guy has a long history with his ex. i understand he may not want to end his friendship with her. that's ok. but the fact that he's not introducing you kinda is an unacknowledgment about the issue at hand. he needs to let her go for his current relationship and mental health, and also to let her go for HER mental stability as well. she's obviously full of drama and he's just enabling it. if they were really good friends, it might hurt both of them in the beginning to downsize their relationship, but in the end, if she was mature at all, they would realize that they can still be true platonic friends and they can both move on and be happy. if he cant do that yet, im not going to fault him for still being attached to the ex (20 years is a long time) but maybe that's just telling you that he's not ready to really move on with his life yet. how long do you want to wait and be patient while he's in limbo? youre also enabling him as well. if you dont show him that its affecting your relationship and hurting you by walking away, he's not only going to keep up with this routine, but youre not standing up for yourself. how and when is he going to get the motivation to truly let the past be the past and move on with you? you need to show him youre a strong person and that you dont deserve to be treated like this. that you can walk away and be ok. if this doesnt kick him into gear, than you didnt mean enough to him. he might really care about you, but not enough that's he wants to move on with you. ...and keep in mind im still giving this guy the benefit of the doubt that's he NOT cheating on you with the ex. i havent even breached that topic yet.

 

i read a lot of these posts..i dont necessarily respond to many of them..but this one was a must. i hope you realize your worth.

[confused39]

He's hiding something. Do you really trust him?

 

If he refuses to put her in his past, why doesn't he just go back to her?

 

If it's "strictly platonic" why does she care HOW he talks to her when you're around? How can he think it IS platonic if she has actually told him they "will" be back together?

 

Has SHE moved on? I'd bet not, since they're getting together often. So then you'd have to ask why she hasn't moved on...and I'd make another bet that she is counting on their reconciliation.

 

I do realize that every situation is different, and we don't really know what we'd do unless we found ourselves in your shoes. But come on...be realistic...a year and a half, and he "refuses" to "let" you meet her??

 

He's hiding something.

 

How completely dysfunctional this whole scenario is. She left him, but he still likes her that much, huh? Or, maybe, he just likes the attention? And you're allowing that attention by not demanding that she be put in the past, if he's going to continue his relationship with you.

 

You've stated how you love the guy. He needs to wake up and realize that the love is being poisoned...by none other than his ex-wife??? There are plenty of problems that any relationship can experience without an "ex" being one of them.

 

I've gone through something similar myself, and I can tell you this, with absolute certainty: I will NEVER EVER EVER involve myself with another man whose ex's aren't completely ex's. My ex's are history - that's why they're ex's.

 

Ex's with children have an obligation to be civil in order to communicate regarding their children, and that's IT. My friends are my friends...my ex's are my ex's.

 

Regardless of whether you spend the rest of your life with this guy or not, and after 17 months of dating I can only assume that a future is being built, you have to know what you can and can't deal with, what you will and will not accept. I don't read anything about jealousy on your part here...just being tired of a situation that isn't working for you.

 

There's no way I could accept this. Because he refuses to include you, and because she wants him back. That is NOT a platonic friendship.

 

What's best for YOU?

[brneyedgrl333]

Well, I just talked to him and he's meeting her today to go pick out a Christmas present for their son. I don't have a problem with that at all. They are also going walking together afterwards. That's where I have the problem. Can somebody please explain to me how this is appropriate? To be alone with your ex, who is still hung up on you, and think it should be ok with your current gf? He told me again, just have faith in me and trust me. I told him I would have more faith if he would just include me. I asked if I could walk with them. He didn't think it was a good idea. I asked why she didn't want to meet me. He said that she thinks I would have a bigger problem with their friendship if I witnessed how they are together. Yet he still insists it's platonic. I am at my wits end. Someone please tell me I'm being irrational and blowing this all out of proportion. I don't want to lose him.

[Keara]

You're not being irrational or blowing this out of proportion. He hasn't given you an single reason to trust him. He won't let you met her, he won't talk to her around you, he spends a lot of alone time with her. If my bf had a female friend he spent a lot of alone time with then I'd have a huge problem if I wasn't allowed to met her and at least see that portion of his life.

 

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. Trust is built on consistent actions. He tells you to trust him, yet his actions scream that he's hiding his relationship from you.

 

Life has taught me ALWAYS listen to the actions. If you take out all the words he tells you, what do his actions say?

[brneyedgrl333]

My bf and I have been discussing our issue off and on. It's like the elephant in the corner and has to be brought up. I asked him again today why he and I and his ex couldn't just go have coffee sometime. He said that she thinks he has misrepresented the connection between the two of them to me. That he has somehow not let on how deep it acutally is. That by meeting me, she becomes complicit in his falsehood. And she doesn't want that. He totally disagrees with her. He said that he has been very open with me about how close they are as FRIENDS. I believe him. I think that she is reading more into their "friendship". My bf says that he thinks she sees their connection as deeper than an ordinary friendship - of which he says might be true given their history. But he still insists he has no romantic leanings at all. He admits that he doesn't see romantic leanings toward him by her, but knows that they are there under the surface. If she has these feelings, isn't it wrong of him to spend alone time with her? Isn't that encouraging a fantasy for her? Encouraging something that shouldn't be encouraged?

[Keara]

He admits that he doesn't see romantic leanings toward him by her, but knows that they are there under the surface. If she has these feelings, isn't it wrong of him to spend alone time with her? Isn't that encouraging a fantasy for her? Encouraging something that shouldn't be encouraged?

 

Yes. and Yes.

 

You're bf is cheating on you. You know how I know? I did the same exact thing to my ex when I cheated on him. Told him the same stuff, acted the same way. You need to wake up. He knows exactly what's going on, and what he's doing... only person who doesn't know is you. Is that how you want to live your life? You want to spend night after night with a man who knows without a shadow of a doubt that you'd dump him if you ever found out how 'deep' his relationship is with this woman?

 

Do you really want a relationship with a partner who can't show you the most meaningful relationships in his life? If this woman wasn't meaningful then she wouldn't be in his life. Would you be happy if the man you share fully with, give everything to, won't give you the same in return?

[muse27]

omg, of coarse he's telling you that it's all the ex's misinterpretations!

god forbid he puts any ownis on himself. she's the psycho right? the one who cant let go? the one who is so irrational that she's getting in the way of your relationship on purpose although she knows he only wants to be platonic? come on. you mean to tell me he's this saint that only wants to help her along, so he's going to 'walk' with her and help her get out of this

delusionary world of hers by hoping time will tell. and that he's such a nice person he cant say no to her so that he's going to a group for help? well if he's such a nice person, why cant he see that he's hurting you and that you have every right to be upset? he's asking you for trust and faith when he damn well hasnt earned it. and while he's in his own fantasy world, youre the one suffering because youre letting him do this to you. youre letting him make you believe that this relationship is strictly platonic when obviously its not. platonic implies that both sides want to merely be friends. if one side wants something more, there is so much ambiguity and underlying complications that if someone was truly a nice person, theyd not get into a situation that has all the makings of a disaster-not only for themself, but for the other person as well. this guy is obviousy confused, having his cake, and eating it too. until he stops hurting one or even the both of you (who's to say he's not telling her youre crazy and wont let him break up with you), then he's a jerk.

[oppath]

I posted this on your other thread...

 

What defines a healthy relationship to you?

 

Even if he is not having sex with her, bottom line, is that in healthy relationships, if you see your ex socially, the new bf/gf gets to meet that person to witness they are JUST FRIENDS. I don't care if you've been exclusive for 2 weeks, 2 months, or 2 years, once you agree to be bf-gf, if your SO is even TALKING to an ex in a social context, they should know you are in a new relationship, and if they hang out with them, you should be invited. Any man or woman who will not do this is not ready for a new relationship because the ex occupies too much room in their head and heart.

 

When kids are involved, it complicates things, and maybe there should be a couple months grace period, but that grace period is exceeded, and they hang out in a context beyond meeting to do things for the kids.

 

Plus, she wants him back, so it is selfish and cruel of him to hang out with her outside of the needs of the kids.

 

Put your foot down on this.

[norajane]

Seeing as he's supposedly with you, his priority should be your feelings - not his ex-wife's. Since his priority is his ex-wife, then you are always going to be left out in the cold. It's up to you what you do about it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't stay with a man who has an inappropriate relationship with his ex-wife. Whether he thinks or admits it is inappropriate is irrelevant. If you think it is, then you are free to make your own decisions about whether you want him in your life.

 

The one thing that is clear is, he will not change anything about his relationship with his ex. It's your choice on whether you are ok with being with a guy who puts his ex's needs and wants above yours.

[oppath]

Seeing as he's supposedly with you, his priority should be your feelings - not his ex-wife's.

 

you are free to make your own decisions about whether you want him in your life.

 

 

Exactly. Once you agree to exclusivity, your feelings should be first. It doesn't really matter if you've been exclusive for 2 weeks or 2 years (ok, it does a little, but not really, and not after 17 months)! If he is not meeting your definition of a healthy relationship, tell him "I feel that in healthy relationships, this does not happen, and that the current gf should be visible to the ex and the friendship with the ex should be transparent to me. There are no excuses. It hurts me to be treated like my feelings come second when I put you first. This is not healthy for me, and I request that you do something to make me feel comfortable, to make me feel visible. This is something that I am asking of you. It's a request. I can't tolerate my discomfort, which is completely rational, unless you do something to make me comfortable."

 

And if he is unwilling, leave.

[brneyedgrl333]

Well, we broke up yesterday. I guess I knew it would happen eventually. I ended up sharing this thread with him. I had hoped that maybe he would see that it was inappropriate not to include me in his friendship with his ex and maybe want to make changes so that we could look toward our future together. He went the opposite way. He said that, apparently, he isn't ready for a relationship. That he has issues with how his previous relationship ended that prevented him from wanting to have a future with me. He has stated that he thinks the relationship ended prematurely. I'm sure he thinks this because she left him, not the other way around. He still insists that he will never get back together with her. I find this hard to believe. He gave up a year and a half relationship with me to have a "friendship" with her. A "friendship" that I couldn't be a part of. You just don't do that if it is purely platonic. I'm hurt. I'm angry. I know this is best for me but that doesn't stop the pain of losing half of myself. I am going to look to the future and start to redefine myself without him. He can stay stuck in his dysfunctional world without me. Oh - he wants to stay friends. He said that I am his best friend, the one person he relates to the best. And that he can't see a world without having me to hug, or see, or hold hands with. Basically, he wants things to stay the same, yet he doesn't want me as his gf. I am smart enough to realize how unhealthy that is so it's not going to happen. Time to get on with my life. Thank you all for your posts.

[Florida]

I am so sorry this happened, but it must be a relief to have the other shoe drop.

 

You are way better off, the more I read these threads the more I see that every time, every single time that one partner is holding on to an ex or opposite sex friend after so many fights and disagreements to the point of lying to keep in touch- -there is always something bad going on. Even if it is the split of emotions being funneled away from the primary relationship.

 

Good for you that you tried to change it, and did not let this go on indefinitely.

 

One word of advice-maybe he is so dysfunctional he will make you the old friend that he wants to keep around and his next relationship will be destroyed over that too. How would that be for poetic justice?